10 Reasons to legalise all drugs

[Diuretic]

The problem won't go away though Kagom. Yes, put criminal law controls on those substances but go after the producers and distributors and treat the consumers as being in need of medical intervention.

 

[Bullypulpit]

It is natural for Humans to kill also, shall we legalize that too?

Bad analogy. With the legalization of drugs, tax revenues generated for their sales could be used for education and treatment programs. And we would likely see an overall decline in their use as the cachet of legality would remove the thrill of using them illicitly.

We should have learned from the utter failure of prohibition in the 1920's.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Bad analogy. With the legalization of drugs, tax revenues generated for their sales could be used for education and treatment programs. And we would likely see an overall decline in their use as the cachet of legality would remove the thrill of using them illicitly.

We should have learned from the utter failure of prohibition in the 1920's.

Well if we legalize murder and provide a tax on it, we could then use the money to educate and provide treatment programs, the murder rate would plummet as we applied all this education to the issue. And besides the thrill of murder would be gone if it were legal. No more initiation into gangs and groups by murder if all one need to do is pay a tax and even if they do not, only face a tax charge if caught doing it with out having paid.

 

[maineman]

Well if we legalize murder and provide a tax on it, we could then use the money to educate and provide treatment programs, the murder rate would plummet as we applied all this education to the issue. And besides the thrill of murder would be gone if it were legal. No more initiation into gangs and groups by murder if all one need to do is pay a tax and even if they do not, only face a tax charge if caught doing it with out having paid.

given the somewhat victimless nature of drug use, your analogy would be more accurate if you compared legalizing drugs to legalizing suicide.

Smoking a joint is really not analogous to violently taking someone else's life.

 

[Ruby]

Well if we legalize murder and provide a tax on it, we could then use the money to educate and provide treatment programs, the murder rate would plummet as we applied all this education to the issue. And besides the thrill of murder would be gone if it were legal. No more initiation into gangs and groups by murder if all one need to do is pay a tax and even if they do not, only face a tax charge if caught doing it with out having paid.

That analogy is so bad as numerous posters have already pointed out and even pointed out why. We cant make it legal to VICTIMIZE other people but it should be legal to do as you wish with YOUR OWN body. I agree that suicide is a much better analogy as well as prostituion. Both of those things are all activities that do not have an element of victimizing another human being.

Also what gang initiates members by murdering them? Wouldnt that mean they are an extinct gang since new members are immediately dead and thereby not able to participate as active gang members?

 

[RetiredGySgt]

That analogy is so bad as numerous posters have already pointed out and even pointed out why. We cant make it legal to VICTIMIZE other people but it should be legal to do as you wish with YOUR OWN body. I agree that suicide is a much better analogy as well as prostituion. Both of those things are all activities that do not have an element of victimizing another human being.

Also what gang initiates members by murdering them? Wouldnt that mean they are an extinct gang since new members are immediately dead and thereby not able to participate as active gang members?

You can't really be so dense as to think I meant gangs have new members kill old members, ohh wait, maybe you can, nor can you honestly think I meant new members kill other new members.... well wait, sure you can.

The argument is just as valid. I mean the claim is magically by legalizing drugs that destroy peoples lives, drive them to crime to pay for their habits, cause them to lose families and jobs will all magically go away if we just TAX it is ludicrous.

Once again read the title of the thread. It is about making ALL drugs legal. You think we have problems now , just do that and you will be amazed at the new heights crime shoot to, unless of course your advocating the Government provide cost free all the addictive destructive drugs to all the old and new addicts?

 

[maineman]

You can't really be so dense as to think I meant gangs have new members kill old members, ohh wait, maybe you can, nor can you honestly think I meant new members kill other new members.... well wait, sure you can.

The argument is just as valid. I mean the claim is magically by legalizing drugs that destroy peoples lives, drive them to crime to pay for their habits, cause them to lose families and jobs will all magically go away if we just TAX it is ludicrous.

Once again read the title of the thread. It is about making ALL drugs legal. You think we have problems now , just do that and you will be amazed at the new heights crime shoot to, unless of course your advocating the Government provide cost free all the addictive destructive drugs to all the old and new addicts?

still doesn't make your analogy between legalizing drugs and legalizing murder any less ridiculous.

 

[Diuretic]

The policy of criminalising certain substances is a failure. It has made billionaires out of shitbags, it has given organised crime the biggest hand up since prohibition. It has destroyed lives, corrupted public officials, filled up prisons and wasted precious tax dollars.

That certain subtances are harmful is a given. The question is, how to reduce the harm they do. In my experience the criminalisation of those substances is a policy failure.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

The policy of criminalising certain substances is a failure. It has made billionaires out of shitbags, it has given organised crime the biggest hand up since prohibition. It has destroyed lives, corrupted public officials, filled up prisons and wasted precious tax dollars.

That certain subtances are harmful is a given. The question is, how to reduce the harm they do. In my experience the criminalisation of those substances is a policy failure.

The criminalization of assassins has failed. It has destroyed lives, corrupted public officials, filled up prisons and wasted precious tax dollars. It has made billions for organized crime.

The question is, how do we reduce the harm murder does? In my opinion criminalizing murder is a policy failure.

 

[JeffWartman]

The criminalization of assassins has failed. It has destroyed lives, corrupted public officials, filled up prisons and wasted precious tax dollars. It has made billions for organized crime.

The question is, how do we reduce the harm murder does? In my opinion criminalizing murder is a policy failure.

Many have already shown your analogy to be completely irrelevant and frankly, dumb.

 

[maineman]

Many have already shown your analogy to be completely irrelevant and frankly, dumb.

those of us who routinely whip his ass with his own idiocy have been put on ignore by RGS as his way of managing the acknowledgement of his own failings.

therefore, I doubt he is even away of how many people have shown him the stupidity of his analogy.

ME stubbing MY toe is not the same as ME banging YOURS with a hammer!

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Many have already shown your analogy to be completely irrelevant and frankly, dumb.

I disagree, all that has been shown is that certain people think taxing murderous drugs will somehow magically change things, crime will drop and all will be well with the world.

Illegal Drugs kill. They kill the users, they kill the friends and neighbors of users. They kill victims of the crimes drug users commit to gain the money to pay for their drugs. They destroy people, they destroy families.

To claim that by TAXING illegal substances and making them legal will make all that go away is patently ignorant. It is exactly the same concept. You just don't want to see it.

The ONLY way legalizing drugs will work to lower crime is if the Government provides said drugs for free. Otherwise people still have to pay for them, people will still be unable to work when addicted to most of them and thus won't have money to pay for said drugs. Thus crime does not go away.

 

[Ruby]

You can't really be so dense as to think I meant gangs have new members kill old members, ohh wait, maybe you can, nor can you honestly think I meant new members kill other new members.... well wait, sure you can.

The argument is just as valid. I mean the claim is magically by legalizing drugs that destroy peoples lives, drive them to crime to pay for their habits, cause them to lose families and jobs will all magically go away if we just TAX it is ludicrous.

Once again read the title of the thread. It is about making ALL drugs legal. You think we have problems now , just do that and you will be amazed at the new heights crime shoot to, unless of course your advocating the Government provide cost free all the addictive destructive drugs to all the old and new addicts?

I was having a bit of fun with what you said and you did say "No more initiation into gangs and groups by murder if all one need to do is pay a tax and even if they do not, only face a tax charge if caught doing it with out having paid." If you wont laugh at yourself then how I can laugh with you?

I dont think anyone has said that all the problems of drug use/addiction are magically fixed. You are either mis-characterizing or mis-understanding peoples view, not sure which.

The point many people are making (as well as myself) is that there are better ways to handle it and we can REDUCE the problems and its effects. Prohibition is a failure and we do have a model for a policy that decriminalizes drugs and they are doing just fine.

Here is a link that gives info on the Netherlands.

http://www.drugpolicy.org/global/drugpolicyby/westerneurop/thenetherlan/

The extent and nature of the use of soft drugs does not differ from the pattern in other Western countries. As for hard drugs, the number of addicts in the Netherlands is low compared with the rest of Europe and considerably lower than that in France, the United Kingdom, Italy, Spain and Switzerland. Dutch rates of drug use are lower than U.S. rates in every category.

It can be done better and we see another nation already doing it, why not be smart and learn from that? It also defeats the notion that making them legal and or decrimnialized means the problem gets worse or increases users. We get to see it in action and not simply theorize.

 

[maineman]

RGS sez:

"The ONLY way legalizing drugs will work to lower crime is if the Government provides said drugs for free. Otherwise people still have to pay for them, people will still be unable to work when addicted to most of them and thus won't have money to pay for said drugs. Thus crime does not go away. "

stupid illogical argument once again: LOWERING CRIME is not synonymous with making crime GO AWAY.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

I was having a bit of fun with what you said and you did say "No more initiation into gangs and groups by murder if all one need to do is pay a tax and even if they do not, only face a tax charge if caught doing it with out having paid." If you wont laugh at yourself then how I can laugh with you?

I dont think anyone has said that all the problems of drug use/addiction are magically fixed. You are either mis-characterizing or mis-understanding peoples view, not sure which.

The point many people are making (as well as myself) is that there are better ways to handle it and we can REDUCE the problems and its effects. Prohibition is a failure and we do have a model for a policy that decriminalizes drugs and they are doing just fine.

Here is a link that gives info on the Netherlands.

http://www.drugpolicy.org/global/drugpolicyby/westerneurop/thenetherlan/



It can be done better and we see another nation already doing it, why not be smart and learn from that? It also defeats the notion that making them legal and or decrimnialized means the problem gets worse or increases users. We get to see it in action and not simply theorize.

So, your on record as advocating the Government provide drugs to people? That is what happens in that country.


Alcohol is legal ( well if your 21), THATS WORKED OUT REAL WELL AT STOPPING PEOPLE UNDER THE AGE OF 21 FROM DRINKING NOW HASN'T IT?

Legalize all drugs and your gonna have a huge problem remaining with all those unable still to legally get it. You will in fact be encouraging our youth to use it.

 

[maineman]

I think Ruby is "on record" as stating that the experiences of other countries do not comport with your unsupportable theories about the continued criminalization of drugs.

 

[Larkinn]

I disagree, all that has been shown is that certain people think taxing murderous drugs will somehow magically change things, crime will drop and all will be well with the world.

Illegal Drugs kill. They kill the users, they kill the friends and neighbors of users. They kill victims of the crimes drug users commit to gain the money to pay for their drugs. They destroy people, they destroy families.

To claim that by TAXING illegal substances and making them legal will make all that go away is patently ignorant. It is exactly the same concept. You just don't want to see it.

The ONLY way legalizing drugs will work to lower crime is if the Government provides said drugs for free. Otherwise people still have to pay for them, people will still be unable to work when addicted to most of them and thus won't have money to pay for said drugs. Thus crime does not go away.

You know shit about drugs. These things CAN cause deaths, they don't always. In fact some very rarely do.

Anyway I thought you were against the nanny state? I can do what I want with my own body.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

You know shit about drugs. These things CAN cause deaths, they don't always. In fact some very rarely do.

Anyway I thought you were against the nanny state? I can do what I want with my own body.

What a moronic come back. You and I and any sane person with any Intelligence know perfectly well you can NOT legally do "anything" you want with your body. If you could we would be living in anarchy.

 

[Ruby]

So, your on record as advocating the Government provide drugs to people? That is what happens in that country.


Alcohol is legal ( well if your 21), THATS WORKED OUT REAL WELL AT STOPPING PEOPLE UNDER THE AGE OF 21 FROM DRINKING NOW HASN'T IT?

Legalize all drugs and your gonna have a huge problem remaining with all those unable still to legally get it. You will in fact be encouraging our youth to use it.

The only drugs GIVEN to people *by govt and part of their universal health care* are those prescribed by a doctor for medical reasons. Americans also take drugs prescribed by a doctor and many are controlled substances/narcotics.

They arent passing out free weed, cocaine etc. They will provide methadone or heroin as needed medically and as part of a medical recovery process.

Didnt you read the link, the US is using more drugs than they are in ALL categories. So legalization isnt making use go up is it? We have a live working model thats been doing for at least 4 decades now and we can see their results.

All the claims you make about what it will do are already invalidated because we have already seen this done and it did not result in all you claim it will, in fact they are doing BETTER in this area than the US is so obviously they are doing a better job of it.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

The only drugs GIVEN to people *by govt and part of their universal health care* are those prescribed by a doctor for medical reasons. Americans also take drugs prescribed by a doctor and many are controlled substances/narcotics.

They arent passing out free weed, cocaine etc. They will provide methadone or heroin as needed medically and as part of a medical recovery process.

Didnt you read the link, the US is using more drugs than they are in ALL categories. So legalization isnt making use go up is it? We have a live working model thats been doing for at least 4 decades now and we can see their results.

All the claims you make about what it will do are already invalidated because we have already seen this done and it did not result in all you claim it will, in fact they are doing BETTER in this area than the US is so obviously they are doing a better job of it.

Sure thing. That you believe that is an indication of your failure to understand reality.