CDZ Zuckerberg Calls for a Universal Basic Income

[The Irish Ram]

We already have it. It is called minimum wage. Unless you are suggesting we all just sit on our butts and wait for deposits to our checking accounts. If that is the case, where is the gov. going to get the money to hand out?

They stole every dime that hard working Americans saved into Social Security.
The government wants to replace you with machines, cap your universal dole at minimum wage level. And they'll take all the rest. Like 40 million dollar baby, Nancy Pelosi and the others.
Stop trying to force us into a universal commune. If there was ever a mess to run from, it's the rest of the world...

 

[Circe]

So you think all government checks to people is welfare? Is Social Security welfare to you, or military retirement benefits? lol

Welfare is needs based government payouts that is not earned or a benefit for being a citizen, as it is based on NEED, and nothing else other than citizenship.

Why do you have a problem using the English language?

Basic income would definitely be welfare. If you have some idea that the government would give Buffett or Gates $40,000 a year automatically, forget it. In the scifi stories of the last ten-twenty years about this, people applied -- needs tested -- and then they got Basic for life. But they couldn't work or do anything without losing it. The idea was that they should just sit down and shut up for life, not being useful for anything. It is an interesting idea, and the welfare we have now is already close to Basic.

 

[Circe]

... you are suggesting we all just sit on our butts and wait for deposits to our checking accounts. If that is the case, where is the gov. going to get the money to hand out?

Same place they get it for welfare now --- from the top 1% first and then from the top 10%. I would guess many of us here are at least in the latter group, forums attracting both the smartest and the stupidest. Poor people don't pay any taxes! They are already totally subsidized by the better off, and have been forever. That's not the problem with the idea --- it would be easy to pay for. The problem is that it wouldn't stay stable if the people on Basic reproduced unfairly and if immigrants crowded in to get them some.
And the disaster problem. If the economy collapsed, you'd have millions of people with no concept of a work ethic and no idea except that the government owed them a living. Tumbrils time.

 

[JimBowie1958]

We already have it. It is called minimum wage. Unless you are suggesting we all just sit on our butts and wait for deposits to our checking accounts. If that is the case, where is the gov. going to get the money to hand out?

i have already answered where the money would come from and why it is not a welfare scheme. I cant repeat myself every time someone asks.

Read post 284.

They stole every dime that hard working Americans saved into Social Security.
The government wants to replace you with machines, cap your universal dole at minimum wage level. And they'll take all the rest. Like 40 million dollar baby, Nancy Pelosi and the others.

UBI would be well above minimum wage.

Stop trying to force us into a universal commune. If there was ever a mess to run from, it's the rest of the world...

No one is forcing you into anything except unemployment and the market forces will be doing that.

Why would a company hire you to do your job if they can buy a robot for about $2000 that can do your job better than you, needs no insurance, no holidays or vacation or sick days and can work 24/7?

The idea behind UBI is to provide a financial basis to sustain the markets, provide some social stability and let people avoid starvation.

 

[JimBowie1958]

So you think all government checks to people is welfare? Is Social Security welfare to you, or military retirement benefits? lol

Welfare is needs based government payouts that is not earned or a benefit for being a citizen, as it is based on NEED, and nothing else other than citizenship.

Why do you have a problem using the English language?

Basic income would definitely be welfare.

The word welfare has a specific meaning and UBI does not fall under it. Period.

Drop the fucking mike, lol.

If you have some idea that the government would give Buffett or Gates $40,000 a year automatically, forget it. In the scifi stories of the last ten-twenty years about this, people applied -- needs tested -- and then they got Basic for life. But they couldn't work or do anything without losing it. The idea was that they should just sit down and shut up for life, not being useful for anything. It is an interesting idea, and the welfare we have now is already close to Basic.

This is not sci fi, this is something entirely different as it is NOT NEEDS BASED.

And Buffet can claim his Social Security benefits so why couldnt he claim his UBI check too?

lol

 

[task0778]

Zuckerberg has a good idea.

Let's just get rid of money and make everything free.

We cant get rid of money, silly, how else would the government tax us?

But if it's free it doesn't cost anything right?

No, but the corporations that have replaced human labor with robotic labor will be making such windfall profits, they will be able to shoulder the entire burden while still making record profits.

We are a very long way from all human labor being automated

ALL human labor, yes. But a substantial amount of labor, maybe not that long. Enough to be a problem sooner than some think, yeah I'd say so. Consider how much automation and computerization has already cut into human labor in recent decades.

 

[task0778]

Serious question: say you means test the Basic Income right? What does that do to the work ethic for so many who are close to or maybe not even that close to whatever the cutoff is, are they going to work anyway for what ever small amount they would make over the BI? OK, so then you phase it in, at a certain level your BI begins to drop and your check gets smaller. Still going to be bunch of people that say screw it, I'll be fine on the BI. IOW, we are incentivizing NOT WORKING, is that really a good thing?

Then, say above a certain income level nobody gets the BI, right? Top 2% maybe? That's what, 3 million people out of 150 million or so who are currently working? What's 3 million times $40 grand if that's your BI, about 120 billion dollars? Out of say $6 trillion, whoop de do. News flash fellas, they ain't got that much income and even if they did they'd all leave the US for Ireland or somewhere else.

The BI is a pipe dream, never going to happen. It's a bad idea in the first place and impossible in the 2nd place.

 

[xyz]

I am definitely biased against Zuckerberg, and while that may look like a good idea, it just scares me, as does the prospect of him running for president.

 

[JimBowie1958]

The BI is a pipe dream, never going to happen. It's a bad idea in the first place and impossible in the 2nd place.

No, it will happen as it is one of the few ideas that have much hope to keep society stable.

 

[JimBowie1958]

Go to table 2.1, they show corporate income tax in 2016 was $299.57 billion.

That is not all corporate taxes paid.Cant you grasp what you read?

Including excise taxes and dividing that by the income tax rate is multiplying your error.

No, it was not as I was looking at total taxes paid at all levels of government and which is 7.5% of corporate profits.

$2.16 trillion profit before tax in 2016.

Lol, horse shit, that is only their profit subject to federal taxation that they report.

Private industry wages running about $7 trillion a year in 2017.

I was not looking for total wages but total COSTS FOR LABOR which is much different, dude.

This is the last time I am going to respond to your insulting arrogant bile.

Welcome to my ignore list dude.

 

[Skull Pilot]

We cant get rid of money, silly, how else would the government tax us?

But if it's free it doesn't cost anything right?

No, but the corporations that have replaced human labor with robotic labor will be making such windfall profits, they will be able to shoulder the entire burden while still making record profits.

a general tax on firms for unemployment compensation!

We already have that at both the state and federal level

no, we don't; or we would not have this issue.

Yes , we do.


Topic No. 759 Form 940 – Employer's Annual Federal Unemployment (FUTA) Tax Return – Filing and Deposit Requirements | Internal Revenue Service

Topic Number: 759 - Form 940 – Employer's Annual Federal Unemployment (FUTA) Tax Return – Filing and Deposit Requirements
Who Must File Form 940?

Most employers pay both a federal (FUTA) and a state unemployment tax. There are three tests used to determine whether you must pay FUTA tax: a general test, household employees test, and farmworkers employees test.

Under the general test, you're subject to FUTA tax on the wages you pay employees who aren't household or agricultural employees and must file Form 940 (PDF), Employer's Annual Federal Unemployment (FUTA) Tax Return, for 2017 if:

• You paid wages of $1,500 or more to employees in any calendar quarter during 2016 or 2017, or
• You had one or more employees for at least some part of a day in any 20 or more different weeks in 2016 or 20 or more different weeks in 2017. Count all full-time, part-time, and temporary employees. However, if your business is a partnership, don't count its partners.

If you sold or transferred your business during the year, and one of the conditions above applies, you must file Form 940. However, don't include any wages paid by the predecessor employer on your Form 940 unless you're a successor employer. For details, see "Successor employer" in the Form 940 (PDF). If you won't be liable for filing Form 940 in the future, see "Final: Business closed or stopped paying wages" under Type of Return in the Form 940 (PDF).

For the household employees and farmworkers tests, see Chapter 14 in Publication 15, (Circular E), Employers Tax Guide. Additional information for household employers is available in Publication 926.pdf, Household Employer’s Tax Guide and Topic No. 756. Additional information for agricultural employers is available in Publication 51, (Circular A), Agricultural Employer’s Tax Guide, and Topic No. 760, Reporting and Deposit Requirements for Agricultural Employers.

FUTA tax rate: The FUTA tax rate is 6.0%. The tax applies to the first $7,000 you paid to each employee as wages during the year. The $7,000 is often referred to as the federal or FUTA wage base. Your state wage base may be different.

Generally, if you paid wages subject to state unemployment tax, you may receive a credit of up to 5.4% when you file your Form 940. If you're entitled to the maximum 5.4% credit, the FUTA tax rate after credit is 0.6%. Generally, you're entitled to the maximum credit if you paid your state unemployment taxes in full on time, and the state isn't determined to be a credit reduction state. See the Instructions for Form 940 to determine the credit.

Credit Reduction State: This is a state that hasn't repaid money it borrowed from the federal government to pay unemployment benefits. The Department of Labor runs the loan program and determines the credit reduction states each year; see FUTA Credit Reductions for more information. If an employer pays wages that are subject to the unemployment tax laws of a credit reduction state, the credit an employer may receive for state unemployment tax it paid is reduced, resulting in a greater amount of federal unemployment tax due when filing its Form 940 and including the Form 940, Schedule A (PDF), Multi-State Employer and Credit Reduction Information. You must use Form 940, Schedule A if you paid wages to employees in more than one state or if you paid wages in any state that's subject to credit reduction.


State Unemployment Tax Rates

 

[Skull Pilot]

We are a very long way from all human labor being automated

i agree if by 'a very long way from' you mean maybe ten to twenty years.

No way will every single job held by people be done with machines in 20 years.

 

[JimBowie1958]

No way will every single job held by people be done with machines in 20 years.

Why would any employer hire a person when they can buy a robot for $2000 with no vacation, no holidays, no sick days, and can work 24/7 with no potty breaks or lunch?

 

[Skull Pilot]

Zuckerberg has a good idea.

Let's just get rid of money and make everything free.

We cant get rid of money, silly, how else would the government tax us?

But if it's free it doesn't cost anything right?

No, but the corporations that have replaced human labor with robotic labor will be making such windfall profits, they will be able to shoulder the entire burden while still making record profits.

We are a very long way from all human labor being automated

ALL human labor, yes. But a substantial amount of labor, maybe not that long. Enough to be a problem sooner than some think, yeah I'd say so. Consider how much automation and computerization has already cut into human labor in recent decades.

It really hasn't

Tell me where do you do business that there are no people employed?
Now tell me if there was a business that had no people to interact with would you really want to do business there?

We are in no immediate danger of having all jobs disappear because of automation.

 

[Skull Pilot]

No way will every single job held by people be done with machines in 20 years.

Why would any employer hire a person when they can buy a robot for $2000 with no vacation, no holidays, no sick days, and can work 24/7 with no potty breaks or lunch?

2000 dollars?

Really?

Tell me who would you rather have draw blood from your arm a robot or a person?

And do you really think it would cost 2 grand to buy a machine that can do everything a person can do?

 

[JimBowie1958]

Tell me where do you do business that there are no people employed?

Prefer Working Solo? 12 Franchises That Don't Need Employees

The Basics of How I Built a Seven-Figure Business Without Employees

7 Business Ideas That Don't Require Employees


Yes, You Can Have a Million-Dollar Business with No Employees

 

[Circe]

Still going to be bunch of people that say screw it, I'll be fine on the BI. IOW, we are incentivizing NOT WORKING, is that really a good thing?

The POINT is to incentivize not working, because a lot of people who aren't very bright cannot possibly keep up with a high-tech workplace. They are not needed and they won't farm because they aren't hungry enough as welfare exists now, so there is no use continuing with the work ethic thing.

Giving people an incentive not to work is what this is about, but then what if world war breaks out or the economy collapses in a TEOWAWKI situation. Could be hard to backtrack, especially if modern warfare doesn't need cannon fodder, the traditional use for excess males in an economy. Sorry to be so blunt, but that is why wars break out in times of high unemployment ( late 1930's, for instance).

 

[Skull Pilot]

Tell me where do you do business that there are no people employed?

Prefer Working Solo? 12 Franchises That Don't Need Employees

The Basics of How I Built a Seven-Figure Business Without Employees

7 Business Ideas That Don't Require Employees


Yes, You Can Have a Million-Dollar Business with No Employees

Do you even read what you post

Just because an article mentions no employees does not mean you are buying robots

 

[JimBowie1958]

2000 dollars?

Really?

Open-source robotics - Wikipedia

InMoov - Wikipedia <- $1500

Tell me who would you rather have draw blood from your arm a robot or a person?

Based on personal experience, a robot rather than a young nurse, lol. give me an old prune faced nurse any day of the week.

And do you really think it would cost 2 grand to buy a machine that can do everything a person can do?

Yes, within ten years.

I plan to build my own, God willing.

 

[JimBowie1958]

Tell me where do you do business that there are no people employed?

Prefer Working Solo? 12 Franchises That Don't Need Employees

The Basics of How I Built a Seven-Figure Business Without Employees

7 Business Ideas That Don't Require Employees


Yes, You Can Have a Million-Dollar Business with No Employees

Do you even read what you post

Just because an article mentions no employees does not mean you are buying robots

I was simply giving examples of businesses with no employees.

The robots I am referring to with Strong AI are not on the market yet so how can they be all robotic?