Zimmerman/Martin who is the biggest Jackass

[JimBowie1958]

I have done some calculations, let me know if you'd like a fuller post, but IIRC, from the time Zimmerman exited the truck to the point where he acknowledged the dispatcher on following Martin (he didn't agree, he simply said "OK") the time difference was 18-seconds. From where he described his truck as being, the distance from the truck the event site would have been over 320 feet | 106 Yards | over a football field away.

1. In the 2:30-3:30 (minutes:seconds) he would have had to have continued to travel away from the truck to reach the event site in that time.

2. If he stopped when the dispatcher told him to, he wouldn't have been at the event site, which means Martin would have had to overpower him while on Twin Trees Lane, drag him back behind the house, then commenced the fight again. (Doesn't make sense, I know.)


>>>>

GZ said TM was runnning, didnt he?

320 feet can be covered at a jog in less than a minute, even by a fat ass like me.

 

[WorldWatcher]

I have done some calculations, let me know if you'd like a fuller post, but IIRC, from the time Zimmerman exited the truck to the point where he acknowledged the dispatcher on following Martin (he didn't agree, he simply said "OK") the time difference was 18-seconds. From where he described his truck as being, the distance from the truck the event site would have been over 320 feet | 106 Yards | over a football field away.

1. In the 2:30-3:30 (minutes:seconds) he would have had to have continued to travel away from the truck to reach the event site in that time.

2. If he stopped when the dispatcher told him to, he wouldn't have been at the event site, which means Martin would have had to overpower him while on Twin Trees Lane, drag him back behind the house, then commenced the fight again. (Doesn't make sense, I know.)


>>>>

GZ said TM was runnning, didnt he?

320 feet can be covered at a jog in less than a minute, even by a fat ass like me.

Go ahead, refill the morning coffee, I have a feeling this is one of those posts that will take awhie…

Yes, GZ said TM was running. Not what I was talking about, I was talking about the distances involved for GZ. GZ said TM was running when he exited the area of the truck, that does not say that TM continued to run once he broke contact and rounded the building to continue the phone call with the girlfriend.

Background:
I spend 20-years in the Navy as flight crew. I had annual physicals, had to meet certain height/weight requirements and we had regular Physical Readiness Tests (PRT’s) which included Push-ups, Sit-ups, and a 1.5 Mile Run. Passing time on the PRT run was 13:45, younger kids right out of high school could do it in about 10:00 flat. Being older now I still workout, 4 or 5 times a week I do 60 minutes on a treadmill starting at 2.8 MPH increasing each 5 minutes by .1 MPH so over the last half is done at 3.3 MPH which is a pretty brisk walk.

Numbers:

• 1 mile = 5280 feet
• 1 mile = 1760 yards
• The average person walks about 3 MPH (1 mi = 20 minutes) = 5280 feet / 20 minutes / 60 seconds = 4.5 feet per second. (actually it’s 4.4 but we’ll go a little high in Zimmerman’s favor)
• Navy PRT Run (1.5 mi @ 13:45) = 9.6 feet per second.
• Event location up the side walk to the curb of TTL = 221.2 feet | 70.4 yards
• Event location up the side walk to the center of TTL between the curves = 0.06 316.8 feet | 105.6 yards
• Event location up the sidewalk to the mailboxes by the clubhouse = 475.2 feet | 158.4 yards
• From the time Zimmerman exits the truck to acknowledging the dispatchers not to follow comment = 18 seconds.

1230 Twin Trees Lane Sanford Florida - Google Maps

The link above will take you to a Google Map of the area, resize as needed.

You have the gate in the upper left, across Retreat View Circle. The clubhouse is on the right as well as the mail boxes as you follow Twin Trees Lane (TTL) to the left turn. TTL continues left to right until you reach the right turn if you were to continue straight, that is the building behind which the shooting (which I refer to as “the event”) occurred.

Zimmerman said in the dispatch tape that the guy was on Retreat View Circle at the clubhouse (it faces Retreat View Circle) so that places Martin at the intersection just through the security gate (how Zimmerman could claim “He’s just walking around” when Martin was just at the intersection inside the gate is a different topic). When the dispatcher asked if the individual was at the clubhouse right now, Zimmerman replied in the affirmative. Zimmerman than talks about Martin coming toward him, ummm, Zimmerman’s truck was parked between Martin’s current location and the residence he was traveling to, of course he walked towards him. Zimmerman then goes on to describe the location of his truck “If they come in through the gate, tell them to go straight past the club house, and uh, straight past the club house and make a left, and then they go past the mailboxes, that's my truck...”. We can now place Zimmerman’s truck as just after the left hand turn on TTL.

Now, if you listen to the tape of the dispatcher call, you can note the sound of Zimmerman exiting the truck and then 18-seconds later his acknowledgement of the dispatchers statement about following the unknown individual. Zimmerman replies with “OK”, he did not say he stopped, he did not say he was returning. IIRC the “stopped” or “returning to the truck” idea came from an interview with the father and/or brother. Their statements may truly reflect what Zimmerman said that night to the police during the interview and reenactment, but I’m not holding my breath. I’ll reserve judgment until Zimmerman’s actual statements become part of the public record.

At walking speed Zimmerman would have covered 79.2 feet | 26.4 yards. We know he did not sprint at full speed because he continued a conversation with the dispatcher and there was some wind noise, but no background noise evidence of heavy breathing or the jerkiness of speech that would result in running. So let’s say he moved at light jog of double normal average speed. That would be 158.4 feet | 52.8 yards.

Taking a measurement from halfway of the length of TTL(which is generous to the Zimmerman side as he says in the directions he was closer to the left turn) we have a distance of 316.8 feet | 105.6 yards. At the time that Zimmerman acknowledged the dispatcher instruction not to follow he traveled between 79.2 feet | 26.4 yards and 158.4 feet | 52.8 yards away from the truck. If he started returning to the truck at the point of acknowledging the dispatcher with “OK”, he would have had 2:30-3:30 (minutes:seconds) to return to the truck. That would be 150-210 seconds of travel time. At a walk (not jog, to again give him the advantage) he could have traveled 660 feet | 220 yards to 924 feet | 308 yards. When you look at the distance outbound at a jog compared to the distances that could be covered in the return walk Zimmerman would have been able to return to the truck long before the event with Martin, if he’d traveled toward the truck.

However, the event occurred at a FARTHER distance from the truck then Zimmerman could have traveled in those 18-seconds. Unless someone proposes a theory that Martin knocked Zimmerman unconscious and dragged him around behind the building, to then wake him up so that the hostilities could continue, then we have to assume that Zimmerman traveled the additional distance under his own power.

Hence the assumption that Zimmerman did not return to the truck at the point where he acknowledged the dispatchers instructions not to follow the unknown individual and continued on a path away from the truck during the 2:30-3:30 period between the end of the dispatcher call and the firearm discharge at the event.


Note: 1.

Distance measurements were derived from measuring tools available with Google Earth used with satellite images.

>>>>

 

[Huey]

There is no evidence that Martin was the aggressive one....that makes the OP the only logical choice for who is the biggest jackass.

No Evidence at all?... Wow, I had no idea you were being allowed to see all of the Evidence.

Blood coming out of the back of Zimmerman's head is certainly not "Evidence" of any possible Aggression on the part of Trayvon.

I am in no way shape or form surprised by your continued Assumption of Guilt against Zimmerman.



peace...

zimmie could have gotten that wound in the jailhouse,that kid was too scared to hit zimmie.He got killed for it too.Zimmie better run to Mexico if he gets set free.

 

[WorldWatcher]

There is no evidence that Martin was the aggressive one....that makes the OP the only logical choice for who is the biggest jackass.

No Evidence at all?... Wow, I had no idea you were being allowed to see all of the Evidence.

Blood coming out of the back of Zimmerman's head is certainly not "Evidence" of any possible Aggression on the part of Trayvon.

I am in no way shape or form surprised by your continued Assumption of Guilt against Zimmerman.



peace...

zimmie could have gotten that wound in the jailhouse,that kid was too scared to hit zimmie.He got killed for it too.Zimmie better run to Mexico if he gets set free.

The head injury was documented in the police report as being present on scene before Zimmerman was taken to the police station and was observed by paramedics.

He could not have gotten the head injuries at the police station.


>>>>

 

[PredFan]

I'll wait to answer this when i actually know what happened.

 

[JimBowie1958]

I have done some calculations, let me know if you'd like a fuller post, but IIRC, from the time Zimmerman exited the truck to the point where he acknowledged the dispatcher on following Martin (he didn't agree, he simply said "OK") the time difference was 18-seconds. From where he described his truck as being, the distance from the truck the event site would have been over 320 feet | 106 Yards | over a football field away.

1. In the 2:30-3:30 (minutes:seconds) he would have had to have continued to travel away from the truck to reach the event site in that time.

2. If he stopped when the dispatcher told him to, he wouldn't have been at the event site, which means Martin would have had to overpower him while on Twin Trees Lane, drag him back behind the house, then commenced the fight again. (Doesn't make sense, I know.)


>>>>

GZ said TM was runnning, didnt he?

320 feet can be covered at a jog in less than a minute, even by a fat ass like me.

Go ahead, refill the morning coffee, I have a feeling this is one of those posts that will take awhie…

Yes, GZ said TM was running. Not what I was talking about, I was talking about the distances involved for GZ. GZ said TM was running when he exited the area of the truck, that does not say that TM continued to run once he broke contact and rounded the building to continue the phone call with the girlfriend.

Background:
I spend 20-years in the Navy as flight crew. I had annual physicals, had to meet certain height/weight requirements and we had regular Physical Readiness Tests (PRT’s) which included Push-ups, Sit-ups, and a 1.5 Mile Run. Passing time on the PRT run was 13:45, younger kids right out of high school could do it in about 10:00 flat. Being older now I still workout, 4 or 5 times a week I do 60 minutes on a treadmill starting at 2.8 MPH increasing each 5 minutes by .1 MPH so over the last half is done at 3.3 MPH which is a pretty brisk walk.

Numbers:

• 1 mile = 5280 feet
• 1 mile = 1760 yards
• The average person walks about 3 MPH (1 mi = 20 minutes) = 5280 feet / 20 minutes / 60 seconds = 4.5 feet per second. (actually it’s 4.4 but we’ll go a little high in Zimmerman’s favor)
• Navy PRT Run (1.5 mi @ 13:45) = 9.6 feet per second.
• Event location up the side walk to the curb of TTL = 221.2 feet | 70.4 yards
• Event location up the side walk to the center of TTL between the curves = 0.06 316.8 feet | 105.6 yards
• Event location up the sidewalk to the mailboxes by the clubhouse = 475.2 feet | 158.4 yards
• From the time Zimmerman exits the truck to acknowledging the dispatchers not to follow comment = 18 seconds.

1230 Twin Trees Lane Sanford Florida - Google Maps

The link above will take you to a Google Map of the area, resize as needed.

You have the gate in the upper left, across Retreat View Circle. The clubhouse is on the right as well as the mail boxes as you follow Twin Trees Lane (TTL) to the left turn. TTL continues left to right until you reach the right turn if you were to continue straight, that is the building behind which the shooting (which I refer to as “the event”) occurred.

Zimmerman said in the dispatch tape that the guy was on Retreat View Circle at the clubhouse (it faces Retreat View Circle) so that places Martin at the intersection just through the security gate (how Zimmerman could claim “He’s just walking around” when Martin was just at the intersection inside the gate is a different topic). When the dispatcher asked if the individual was at the clubhouse right now, Zimmerman replied in the affirmative. Zimmerman than talks about Martin coming toward him, ummm, Zimmerman’s truck was parked between Martin’s current location and the residence he was traveling to, of course he walked towards him. Zimmerman then goes on to describe the location of his truck “If they come in through the gate, tell them to go straight past the club house, and uh, straight past the club house and make a left, and then they go past the mailboxes, that's my truck...”. We can now place Zimmerman’s truck as just after the left hand turn on TTL.

Now, if you listen to the tape of the dispatcher call, you can note the sound of Zimmerman exiting the truck and then 18-seconds later his acknowledgement of the dispatchers statement about following the unknown individual. Zimmerman replies with “OK”, he did not say he stopped, he did not say he was returning. IIRC the “stopped” or “returning to the truck” idea came from an interview with the father and/or brother. Their statements may truly reflect what Zimmerman said that night to the police during the interview and reenactment, but I’m not holding my breath. I’ll reserve judgment until Zimmerman’s actual statements become part of the public record.

At walking speed Zimmerman would have covered 79.2 feet | 26.4 yards. We know he did not sprint at full speed because he continued a conversation with the dispatcher and there was some wind noise, but no background noise evidence of heavy breathing or the jerkiness of speech that would result in running. So let’s say he moved at light jog of double normal average speed. That would be 158.4 feet | 52.8 yards.

Taking a measurement from halfway of the length of TTL(which is generous to the Zimmerman side as he says in the directions he was closer to the left turn) we have a distance of 316.8 feet | 105.6 yards. At the time that Zimmerman acknowledged the dispatcher instruction not to follow he traveled between 79.2 feet | 26.4 yards and 158.4 feet | 52.8 yards away from the truck. If he started returning to the truck at the point of acknowledging the dispatcher with “OK”, he would have had 2:30-3:30 (minutes:seconds) to return to the truck. That would be 150-210 seconds of travel time. At a walk (not jog, to again give him the advantage) he could have traveled 660 feet | 220 yards to 924 feet | 308 yards. When you look at the distance outbound at a jog compared to the distances that could be covered in the return walk Zimmerman would have been able to return to the truck long before the event with Martin, if he’d traveled toward the truck.

However, the event occurred at a FARTHER distance from the truck then Zimmerman could have traveled in those 18-seconds. Unless someone proposes a theory that Martin knocked Zimmerman unconscious and dragged him around behind the building, to then wake him up so that the hostilities could continue, then we have to assume that Zimmerman traveled the additional distance under his own power.

Hence the assumption that Zimmerman did not return to the truck at the point where he acknowledged the dispatchers instructions not to follow the unknown individual and continued on a path away from the truck during the 2:30-3:30 period between the end of the dispatcher call and the firearm discharge at the event.


Note: 1.

Distance measurements were derived from measuring tools available with Google Earth used with satellite images.

>>>>

OK, he obviously did not head back to his truck immediately, but said that he was going to get the name of a street he was near when he got attacked. Letting the pursuit go and get the street name on his way back to his truck was probably his intended meaning.

But based on his breathing and so forth on the tape it seems clear he did not continue pursuit.

 

[JimBowie1958]

I'll wait to answer this when i actually know what happened.

Wait for evidence?

What a LOSER!

just kidding....

 

[laughinReaper]

Since we have very little actual evidence, and a whole load of bullshit from the media who appear to be happy to create facts instead of reporting facts, I don't see how anyone can make a logical judgment.

Based on what we do know and not the media BS.

Zimmerman was following Martin even after he was told not too by police. For me that gets him the Jackass award.


Martin Confronts Zimmerman and beats him up. I don't think Zimmerman is making that up. 17 year old male is being followed by a stranger. He's on the phone with his GF who is telling him to get our of there ASAP. No male wants to look weak in front of anybody especially his GF. He also knows if he runs and word gets back to his friends he is going to hear "if it was me I'd would have kicked his ass." Martin saw it was one guy following him and figured he could take him and Martin was right. That for me gives Martin the jackass award because he never should have confronted a stranger. Just because someone is following you doesn't give you the right to beat the guy up. I have to say Martin wasn't nearly as big of a jackass as Zimmerman, and alot of his response was due to his age. IMO

 

[laughinReaper]

My picks aren't on the poll..but that would be..

Obama, Sharpton and Jesse Jackson

Damn I wish I'd thought of it!

 

[bayoubill]

4) Martin's parents and Al and Jessie for turning this into a race thing.

the parents aren't jackasses... they tragically lost a child and wanted answers and action that weren't forthcoming from the authorities...

if you and I were the parents, we too would have done whatever it took to get answers and action...

including making a pact with the devil (which, in the Martin's case, brought in racepimps Jesse and Al...)

 

[JimBowie1958]

Since we have very little actual evidence, and a whole load of bullshit from the media who appear to be happy to create facts instead of reporting facts, I don't see how anyone can make a logical judgment.

Based on what we do know and not the media BS.

Zimmerman was following Martin even after he was told not too by police. For me that gets him the Jackass award.


Martin Confronts Zimmerman and beats him up. I don't think Zimmerman is making that up. 17 year old male is being followed by a stranger. He's on the phone with his GF who is telling him to get our of there ASAP. No male wants to look weak in front of anybody especially his GF. He also knows if he runs and word gets back to his friends he is going to hear "if it was me I'd would have kicked his ass." Martin saw it was one guy following him and figured he could take him and Martin was right. That for me gives Martin the jackass award because he never should have confronted a stranger. Just because someone is following you doesn't give you the right to beat the guy up. I have to say Martin wasn't nearly as big of a jackass as Zimmerman, and alot of his response was due to his age. IMO

So you think GZ should have just let that kid keep pounding GZ's head into the pavement?

How magnanimous of you.

 

[WorldWatcher]

Martin Confronts Zimmerman and beats him up. I don't think Zimmerman is making that up. 17 year old male is being followed by a stranger. He's on the phone with his GF who is telling him to get our of there ASAP. No male wants to look weak in front of anybody especially his GF. He also knows if he runs and word gets back to his friends he is going to hear "if it was me I'd would have kicked his ass." Martin saw it was one guy following him and figured he could take him and Martin was right. That for me gives Martin the jackass award because he never should have confronted a stranger. Just because someone is following you doesn't give you the right to beat the guy up. I have to say Martin wasn't nearly as big of a jackass as Zimmerman, and alot of his response was due to his age. IMO

Martin and Zimmerman come into contact. Martin had already displayed a willingness to depart an uncomfortable situation per Zimmerman's own description of Martin leaving the truck area. Martin runs away and once behind the building he feels he's broken contact and doesn't feel the need to run anymore and he's on the phone with his girlfriend telling her about the weirdo in the truck. During this time Zimmerman has continued to look for Martin (remember he only traveled away from the truck for 18-seconds yet the firearm discharge was 3:00-3:30 [minutes:seconds] later. It's night time, it's raining and Zimmerman (and probably Martin) are pumped up on adrenalin enhancing the normal fight or flight instinct in a tense situation. Zimmerman is frustrated that there have been a slew of recent burglaries in the area, Zimmerman is even more frustrated that he didn't stop one of them from getting away before. Words are exchanged and Martin tries to leave again. A frustrated Zimmerman grabs Martin (assault) and tries to prevent him from leaving (unlawful detention) which Martin had already shown a willingness to do. Martin reacts as he is authorized to do under Florida Statute 776.032 (Stand Your Ground) as he's now scared this unknown guy is going to hurt him. Martin defends himself with an authorized used of force to nullify the danger Zimmerman presents. At this point Zimmerman begins to fear great bodily injury and shoots Martin.

Both scenarios fit the facts that are currently available to the public. However, under the second scenario and Florida Statute 776.041 (Use of force by an aggressor) Zimmerman would lose his self defense immunity if he was the initiator of a forcible felony and would be responsible for killing Martin as a crime.

We don't have all the evidence yet. This is not intended to prove Zimmerman guilty of anything, it is simply another scenario that fits the known facts of that night.


>>>>

 

[laughinReaper]

Martin Confronts Zimmerman and beats him up. I don't think Zimmerman is making that up. 17 year old male is being followed by a stranger. He's on the phone with his GF who is telling him to get our of there ASAP. No male wants to look weak in front of anybody especially his GF. He also knows if he runs and word gets back to his friends he is going to hear "if it was me I'd would have kicked his ass." Martin saw it was one guy following him and figured he could take him and Martin was right. That for me gives Martin the jackass award because he never should have confronted a stranger. Just because someone is following you doesn't give you the right to beat the guy up. I have to say Martin wasn't nearly as big of a jackass as Zimmerman, and alot of his response was due to his age. IMO

Martin and Zimmerman come into contact. Martin had already displayed a willingness to depart an uncomfortable situation per Zimmerman's own description of Martin leaving the truck area. Martin runs away and once behind the building he feels he's broken contact and doesn't feel the need to run anymore and he's on the phone with his girlfriend telling her about the weirdo in the truck. During this time Zimmerman has continued to look for Martin (remember he only traveled away from the truck for 18-seconds yet the firearm discharge was 3:00-3:30 [minutes:seconds] later. It's night time, it's raining and Zimmerman (and probably Martin) are pumped up on adrenalin enhancing the normal fight or flight instinct in a tense situation. Zimmerman is frustrated that there have been a slew of recent burglaries in the area, Zimmerman is even more frustrated that he didn't stop one of them from getting away before. Words are exchanged and Martin tries to leave again. A frustrated Zimmerman grabs Martin (assault) and tries to prevent him from leaving (unlawful detention) which Martin had already shown a willingness to do. Martin reacts as he is authorized to do under Florida Statute 776.032 (Stand Your Ground) as he's now scared this unknown guy is going to hurt him. Martin defends himself with an authorized used of force to nullify the danger Zimmerman presents. At this point Zimmerman begins to fear great bodily injury and shoots Martin.

Both scenarios fit the facts that are currently available to the public. However, under the second scenario and Florida Statute 776.041 (Use of force by an aggressor) Zimmerman would lose his self defense immunity if he was the initiator of a forcible felony and would be responsible for killing Martin as a crime.

We don't have all the evidence yet. This is not intended to prove Zimmerman guilty of anything, it is simply another scenario that fits the known facts of that night.


>>>>

of course either could be right but If I felt threatened by the weirdo in the truck, I wouldn't have been on the phone with my GF, I would have called 911 or called my father who is at his GF's house whom we are visiting. Because of this, I have to wonder how threatened Martin felt by Zimmerman. I guess we will find out at the trial. IMO I think this was two people behaving badly with tragic consequences.

 

[JimBowie1958]

of course either could be right but If I felt threatened by the weirdo in the truck, I wouldn't have been on the phone with my GF, I would have called 911 or called my father who is at his GF's house whom we are visiting. Because of this, I have to wonder how threatened Martin felt by Zimmerman. I guess we will find out at the trial. IMO I think this was two people behaving badly with tragic consequences.

The only two things Martin looks to me like he did wrong was to turn the incident into a fight, and then not let GZ tap out.

It cost him his life but that is not GZ's fault.

Perhaps you might answer the question that no one will answer(no one that thinks GZ guilty of anything); how badly does someone have to beat you before you have the right to use deadly force?

 

[WorldWatcher]

The only two things Martin looks to me like he did wrong was to turn the incident into a fight, and then not let GZ tap out.

There is no evidence at that point that is publically available to actually "who did wrong" by turning the incident into a fight.

It cost him his life but that is not GZ's fault.

It may very well be Martin's fault, on the other hand, with the evidence currently available to the public - it might be GZ's fault.

Perhaps you might answer the question that no one will answer(no one that thinks GZ guilty of anything); how badly does someone have to beat you before you have the right to use deadly force?

Under Florida Law 776.012 a person is authorized the use of deadly force if they fear the other person is going to cause their death or great bodily harm - at that point they can use lethal force in self defense, unless that person is the aggressor in which case there are two conditions under which they lose the self defense claim under 776.041. First if they were committing a forcible felony. Secondly if, as measured by a reasonable person they had a opportunity to escape and did not take it and continued with the fight.

*******************************

Edit to clarify:

Scenario #1:
Zimmerman and Martin come together; Zimmerman is not the aggressor and Martin is. The fight escalates and Zimmerman discharges his firearm and kills Martin. Fully justified self defense, Zimmerman "not guilty".

Scenario #2:
Zimmerman and Martin come together; Zimmerman is the aggressor and assaults Martin. The fight escalates and Zimmerman discharges his firearm and kills Martin. Fully justified self defense, Zimmerman "not guilty". Under Florida law (784..011) simple assault is a misdemeanor and even if Zimmerman was the initial aggressor, if the fight escalated he would not lose his self defense immunity under 776.041.

Scenario #3:
Zimmerman and Martin come together; Zimmerman is the aggressor and assaults with action of attempting to unlawfully detain Martin. The fight escalates and Zimmerman discharges his firearm and kills Martin. If this were true, Zimmerman loses self defense immunity under Florida Law (776.041) because Zimmerman is in the act of committing a forcible felony. ***BUT** the state would have the burden of proof to establish that Zimmerman's conduct was unlawful, if such conclusive evidence were not to exist, then Zimmerman would still be found "not guilty" based on presumption of innocence for lack of evidence.

>>>>

 

[Ariux]

Trayvon is an Afro. What more proof of guilt do you need?

 

[laughinReaper]

Since we have very little actual evidence, and a whole load of bullshit from the media who appear to be happy to create facts instead of reporting facts, I don't see how anyone can make a logical judgment.

Based on what we do know and not the media BS.

Zimmerman was following Martin even after he was told not too by police. For me that gets him the Jackass award.


Martin Confronts Zimmerman and beats him up. I don't think Zimmerman is making that up. 17 year old male is being followed by a stranger. He's on the phone with his GF who is telling him to get our of there ASAP. No male wants to look weak in front of anybody especially his GF. He also knows if he runs and word gets back to his friends he is going to hear "if it was me I'd would have kicked his ass." Martin saw it was one guy following him and figured he could take him and Martin was right. That for me gives Martin the jackass award because he never should have confronted a stranger. Just because someone is following you doesn't give you the right to beat the guy up. I have to say Martin wasn't nearly as big of a jackass as Zimmerman, and alot of his response was due to his age. IMO

So you think GZ should have just let that kid keep pounding GZ's head into the pavement?

How magnanimous of you.

UH Where did I say that? ^^^^^^^^ I said Zimmerman was a jackass for following Martin after the police told him not to and Martin a Jackass for attacking a stranger, where did I say anything about the right or wrong of GZ actions while getting his head pounded in?