Your Taxes, Your Beliefs

[whitehall]

We already have that option. All we need to do is express our will at the voting booth. Hire the right people for the job and indict every sorry ass in the IRS who was involved in wasting taxpayer dollars and punishing the Tea Party.

 

[Wolfsister77]

That's exactly the point and why taxes are mandatory. People would opt out of every tax they could opt out of to avoid paying in and keeping more of their money. Most people don't think in terms of what social programs and services are necessary or what may be needed but instead will keep the money for themselves and their family. For example, say you don't agree with welfare. Well, what if you opt out and need it someday? Do they have a list somewhere of who opted out and how will they keep track of those that opt out so they can never collect welfare? This is just an example of why it wouldn't work. It would create a bigger Government to keep track of all this and a more complex tax code than we already have.

 

[itfitzme]

There are two misplaced assumptions. *

The first is that your specific taxes pay for anything specifically. *If it makes you feel better, you can think of it as your taxes go entirely to the programs you like and the programs other people like are covered by their taxes.*

The more fundamental error is thinking that not having to pay taxes would yield more purchasing power, the ability to buy more stuff. *It doesn't. *If everybody's taxes go down by $100, the cost of goods goes up by $100. *That should be fairly obvious. The cost of all the stuff we buy is based on how much stuff is made and how much money is available to buy it. *Increasing the amount of money available isn't going to produce more stuff. *It takes more people to produce more stuff. (there is a temporary, short lived effect when they change. It goes away after a few cycles) *The only way you can buy more stuff is if you have more net income COMPARED to others.

If everyone can opt out of everything then everyone will opt out of everything. *

So no, on two counts, being able to opt out of taxes makes no sense.*

*The only way it makes sense is if you move Alaska and homestead. *Then you have the right because you are not involved in anything that depends on those taxes. *It's like you can opt out of car insurance, just don't drive.

If you decide you really want to opt out completely, please pin $250 to the inside of your jacket. *I see no reason everyone else should have to pay for your pine box.

But isn't that the thing really, there is no opting out life. *There is a joke in thermodynamics being a rephrasing of the three laws. *They are;

1) You can't win.
2) You can't break even.
3) You can't get out of the game.

 

[itfitzme]

Being able to opt out of taxation kind of defeats the purpose of taxation, but I'd certainly be more than ok with that. The only legitimate tax would be a voluntary tax, or, in other words, a donation.

Yeah, that didn't work so they replaced the Articles of Confederation with the Constitution.

 

[TakeAStepBack]

Dumb, dumb, dumb idea.

How dumb?

I will tell you.


The day after a law was passed that you could elect which taxes not to pay, EVERYONE would stop paying ALL their taxes.


Some people have not even the most basic understanding of human nature.

Yes, freedom, especially economic freedom is dumb.

 

[flacaltenn]

We actually ALL have a LOT of control over the taxes we pay..

Why do think that FlaCalTenn is NOT still FlaCal? It's because I GOT better services for my money. Like a High School without political baggage and roaming gangs. Like beautifully kept public spaces and roads. AND I'm paying WAAAAY less than I did in Cali.. Not to mention the absolute sleep comfortably feeling of having a govt run with competence and surpluses as opposed to the Socialist State of Cali.

So this is really about the one agency you DON'T have a choice to ignore.
Being self-employed, I face the full 13% FICA tax on my business. I'd like to opt out of 1/2 of that like everyone else is "entitled" to.

Social Security surpluses SHOULD have been used to defer future costs by allowing folks like me to RENOUNCE a portion of what's due to me in order to KEEP a fraction of that money for my own investment. Extending that further -- We should ALL be able to opt out of Soc Sec and make it yet another welfare (needs based) entitlement.

 

[TheSeventhTiger]

add me to the "10% and leave me alone" list !

 

[rightwinger]

Dog eat dog, survival of the fittest tax structure

Won't work. taxes as a popularity contest not based on societies needs

 

[TakeAStepBack]

There are two misplaced assumptions. *

The first is that your specific taxes pay for anything specifically. *If it makes you feel better, you can think of it as your taxes go entirely to the programs you like and the programs other people like are covered by their taxes.*

The more fundamental error is thinking that not having to pay taxes would yield more purchasing power, the ability to buy more stuff. *It doesn't. *If everybody's taxes go down by $100, the cost of goods goes up by $100. *That should be fairly obvious. The cost of all the stuff we buy is based on how much stuff is made and how much money is available to buy it. *Increasing the amount of money available isn't going to produce more stuff. *It takes more people to produce more stuff. (there is a temporary, short lived effect when they change. It goes away after a few cycles) *The only way you can buy more stuff is if you have more net income COMPARED to others.

If everyone can opt out of everything then everyone will opt out of everything. *

So no, on two counts, being able to opt out of taxes makes no sense.*

*The only way it makes sense is if you move Alaska and homestead. *Then you have the right because you are not involved in anything that depends on those taxes. *It's like you can opt out of car insurance, just don't drive.

If you decide you really want to opt out completely, please pin $250 to the inside of your jacket. *I see no reason everyone else should have to pay for your pine box.

But isn't that the thing really, there is no opting out life. *There is a joke in thermodynamics being a rephrasing of the three laws. *They are;

1) You can't win.
2) You can't break even.
3) You can't get out of the game.

Speaking of misplaced assumptions.

 

[itfitzme]

Being able to opt out of taxation kind of defeats the purpose of taxation, but I'd certainly be more than ok with that. The only legitimate tax would be a voluntary tax, or, in other words, a donation.

I'm not so sure of that. There'd be quite a few things that wouldn't be removed, like funding for fixing up roads and other public things, as well as libraries and post offices. Making all taxes voluntary is beyond what I'm reaching for... though that too raises some good points. When it comes to social programs that require taxation I can see it being reasonable to opt out of them.

Now we are just back to where we are. You don't have to drive a car, that opts out of registration fees and taxes on gasoline. You can opt out of buyimg anything but food, that opts out of sales tax where I live. You can opt out of owning a home, that opts out of sewage and such. The list goes on and on.

 

[itfitzme]

There are two misplaced assumptions. *

The first is that your specific taxes pay for anything specifically. *If it makes you feel better, you can think of it as your taxes go entirely to the programs you like and the programs other people like are covered by their taxes.*

The more fundamental error is thinking that not having to pay taxes would yield more purchasing power, the ability to buy more stuff. *It doesn't. *If everybody's taxes go down by $100, the cost of goods goes up by $100. *That should be fairly obvious. The cost of all the stuff we buy is based on how much stuff is made and how much money is available to buy it. *Increasing the amount of money available isn't going to produce more stuff. *It takes more people to produce more stuff. (there is a temporary, short lived effect when they change. It goes away after a few cycles) *The only way you can buy more stuff is if you have more net income COMPARED to others.

If everyone can opt out of everything then everyone will opt out of everything. *

So no, on two counts, being able to opt out of taxes makes no sense.*

*The only way it makes sense is if you move Alaska and homestead. *Then you have the right because you are not involved in anything that depends on those taxes. *It's like you can opt out of car insurance, just don't drive.

If you decide you really want to opt out completely, please pin $250 to the inside of your jacket. *I see no reason everyone else should have to pay for your pine box.

But isn't that the thing really, there is no opting out life. *There is a joke in thermodynamics being a rephrasing of the three laws. *They are;

1) You can't win.
2) You can't break even.
3) You can't get out of the game.

Speaking of misplaced assumptions.

Not one assumption except that you might actually have intelligence.

Now I know.

 

[Derideo_Te]

The fallacy that it is "your money" is easy to dispel. If you want roads to drive on you have to pay for them. If you want law & order you have to pay for them. If you want a place to live you have to pay for it. Which means that if you want to live here in the USA you have to pay the going rate in taxation. There is no free lunch so let's stop pretending that it is "your money" and get serious instead.

So where does "your money" really go?

To find the answer let's approach this from a different direction.

Assume that you could convince the government to spend hundreds of billions of dollars that would end up in the hands of corporations that you owned shares in. The dividends from those shares are only taxed at 20% rather than the top rate of 39%. So the more the government spends the more money you make at a massive tax discount, right?

So what is the quickest way to get the government to spend hundreds of billions of dollars year after year on corporations that you own shares in? Start another pointless "war on terror" of course.

Now the hundreds of billions of dollars are going on the taxpayer's credit card but you are only liable for a paltry 20% of the bill. So who is getting stuck with the other 80% of the bill?

Yup, you guessed right.

So what do these people who are making out like bandits do? They tell everyone that it is "unpatriotic" not to want to go to "war on terror". They blame the "welfare moochers" who just happened to be your own retired parents and grandparents who worked hard all their lives and paid their taxes and are now drawing social security and medicare. Those are the "bums" who are spending "your money". Nevermind the hard facts that social security is fully funded and medicare 85% funded through taxes.

Then everyone is told that 47% pay no taxes. Amongst those 47% are everyone's retired parents and grandparents again. So are the sick and those who will spend their entire lives in poverty. But they are to blame for taking away "your money".

So let's all give a big round of applause to those selfless, patriotic shareholders who are paying 20% of their income that they get from starting useless wars and convincing everyone to blame anyone but the guilty parties themselves.

After all they are smart enough to have ended up with "your money" in THEIR offshore bank accounts.

 

[flacaltenn]

Being able to opt out of taxation kind of defeats the purpose of taxation, but I'd certainly be more than ok with that. The only legitimate tax would be a voluntary tax, or, in other words, a donation.

I'm not so sure of that. There'd be quite a few things that wouldn't be removed, like funding for fixing up roads and other public things, as well as libraries and post offices. Making all taxes voluntary is beyond what I'm reaching for... though that too raises some good points. When it comes to social programs that require taxation I can see it being reasonable to opt out of them.

Now we are just back to where we are. You don't have to drive a car, that opts out of registration fees and taxes on gasoline. You can opt out of buyimg anything but food, that opts out of sales tax where I live. You can opt out of owning a home, that opts out of sewage and such. The list goes on and on.

I don't feel a need to "opt out" of use taxes such as gasoline and park fees. Shame that these get stolen and redirected -- but that's life.

In fact -- the Dept of Education should be funded by the STATES as a courtesy for their "valuable contribution to education in the state of _________".. Don't get VALUE for the "investment"?? THen the state of _________ opts out.. Would THAT force excellence and performance and value out of what is a misguided pool of arrogance and wasted effort? You Betcha..

Same thing with Dept of Commerce. Its 90% corporate welfare.. Let IT exist on "membership fees" from the large corporations that benefit..

This idea of CREATIVE taxation just might IMPROVE the level of service we get from our govt..

 

[syrenn]

Wouldn’t it be something if people could opt out of paying taxes towards things they don’t agree with? A liberal wouldn’t have to pay taxes towards something he doesn’t like… wait, I can’t think of anything liberals wouldn’t want to pay taxes towards. Just joking. A conservative could decide that she wants to opt out of paying taxes towards abortion clinics, expense involving gay marriage, etc. I suppose if certain liberals don’t like enforcing the Southern border they could choose to opt out on paying taxes towards that, too. The thing is, I don’t like to have money taken from me to pay for stuff I don’t like.

Now, of course there are some things that can’t be opted out of, like putting taxes towards repairing our roads and keeping our public libraries from going belly-up, but why should I have to put money towards the more social-related things that I don’t see eye-to-eye on?I’m sure both liberals and conservatives can agree there are things they’d rather not have their taxes go towards. For the sake of freedom people ought to have the right to choose what they’re willing to afford. It’s not nice to have to keep having your paycheck gouged to be put towards things you disagree with, or even passionately oppose.

My friends, we should support the right of the people to decide what we want to pay taxes towards, and what it is of true value that all should pay for. Conservatives shouldn’t have their money forcefully funneled towards liberal causes, and liberals shouldn’t have their money forcefully funneled towards conservative causes. It’s about you, the precious people, and your right to decide where your money should go.

It ought to be said that most Americans don’t like taxes. It’s money that’s basically stolen from you, legally. Lol. It’s your money that you’ve busted your hump to get, but it’s then taken and put towards stuff that you may just not like. Guys, I’ve got a few examples of weird taxes that you, the people, should be allowed to choose if you want to pay for:



Sliced Bagel Tax

You might want to think twice about getting that schmear. In New York City, bagels that are sliced or prepared are subject to sales tax, whereas whole bagels are not, according to the Wall Street Journal.

15 Totally Bizarre U.S. Taxes

Yeah, people, a bagel tax. Now, I’m like you. Bagels are sacred, especially those precious morsels that have peanut butter and strawberry jelly schmeared on them. Don’t you, dear and precious people, want to have to pay to get your bagels schmeared? WHAT WORLD DO WE LIVE IN?! What next, a burger tax in Wisconsin that affects all burgers that have more than one patty of meat? If we get a cheese tax in WI, there will be riots.



Pet Tax

If you live in Durham, North Carolina, you could be paying a tax on Rover. The state charges a $10 tax for neutered and spayed pets and $75 for pets that are not neutered or spayed, according to Turbo Tax.

15 Totally Bizarre U.S. Taxes

Oh look, a tax in North Carolina on pets. So… you get taxed $75 if you pet isn’t fixed. You know what I want to fix? This stupid tax! Where do these bureaucratic schmucks in stuffy suits get the idea that furry pets should be taxed? I suppose reptiles and fish are exempt, but cats and dogs aren’t. This is a bogus tax that we shouldn’t have to pay for if we don’t want to.



Elderly Tax Exemption

By the time you're 100, you've paid enough in taxes, at least according to the state of New Mexico, where people over 100 years old are tax-exempt.

15 Totally Bizarre U.S. Taxes

See, this is why I don’t believe in taxes and why I take with a grain of salt every written word and intangible belief the hairy animal known as homo sapiens makes. Everything from laws to morals is completely arbitrary. We created these manmade hypothetical structures. We scribble words down on paper according to the stuff we think, and then we expect everyone else to follow them. If a god does exist, he must be wondering what the **** is going on with us hairy freaks. If I were a god I’d certainly be in a smiting mood.



Flush Tax

If it's yellow, let it mellow could be the motto of some Maryland and Virginia residents looking to save money. In these two states there's a tax on flushing the toilet, according to Bing.

15 Totally Bizarre U.S. Taxes

Being a cheapass, I don’t really have much of a problem with this one. I tend to water the porcelain a few times before giving my inorganic friend a heartfelt flush. Hey, it all adds up on your water bill if everyone takes a flush over the tiniest tinkle. I once flushed a fat tick down the toilet and I actually felt bad over it.



As you can see there are quite a few things people might just not want to put their hard-earned money towards. And the above examples are only the fringe taxes. We aren’t just considering the big things like abortion, gay marriage, traditional marriage, you name it. It’d probably be a happier place if people could decide that they don’t want their money to go towards voter IDs, abortions, securing our borders, or gay marriage. If we don’t change this, we may very well reach a boiling point where people have to pay for all the expenses that go towards things that they don’t agree with. It’s pretty crappy if you ask me.

At times I feel like I’ve got this big, fat mosquito ingrained in my right cheek, sucking me dry of all my money. If I don’t support abortion or our incompetent public school system, I shouldn’t have my wallet sucked by these people to pay for it. These people remind me of those “rate suckers” on those Progressive Insurance commercials. Big teeth, big mouths, little brains, little respect. I just want to smack them with a cattle prod.
Is there anything that can be done about this, so that we the people can start having a say in where our tax dollars go? And before I forget, this doesn’t apply to just Tea Partiers and conservatives. ANY American should be allowed to NOT pay taxes towards unfavorable social and political issues that require sucking money out of people. Liberals, if you know of any taxes you DON’T want to pay for, PLEASE provide them here (because I can’t think of any ). I know that the Right is more vocal about being sucked dry, but I’d like to hear from you guys to, as well as libertarians and independents about this.

No, i don't think opting out would be a great thing at all. There are far to many in this country as it is who pay no federal taxes...yet enjoy all the benefits of the taxes that are paid.

I am for a flat tax..... no exceptions, no exemptions no loop holes. Everyone pays the exact same parentage. Period.

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

Being able to opt out of taxation kind of defeats the purpose of taxation, but I'd certainly be more than ok with that. The only legitimate tax would be a voluntary tax, or, in other words, a donation.

Yeah, that didn't work so they replaced the Articles of Confederation with the Constitution.

You mean it didn't work for some people who wanted to use the government for their own advantage, and found it too difficult under the Articles. Also, taxes weren't voluntary under the Articles.

 

[Agit8r]

In the past, attempts have be made to re-volunteerize welfare:

"The Winterhilfswerk belongs to those National Socialist institutions which today we have almost begun to regard as a matter of course. This relief campaign eases the worries of public relief organizations and the load of work of many public institutions of the State, the Lander, and local governments. And the individual Volksgenosse has gotten used, over the years, to making a contribution to this institution. The masses do so willingly; only a minute percentage of them do so propelled by the fear of looking bad otherwise. But, in the end, it makes no difference why the individual contributes; the main thing is that he does make a contribution!
"The idea of this institution was to call on the Volk to help itself. We could have done things differently. Instead of appealing to the Volk's willingness to sacrifice, we could have directed our appeal to the taxpayer. We consciously and deliberately did not do so because we wanted to educate the German Volk to come together in this common sacrifice, and therein to begin to understand the nature of the community; to comprehend the duties this community demands of us and to satisfy these of our own free accord without relying on the taxpayer."
-- Adolf Hitler; from speech at Berlin Sportpalast (October 10, 1939)

historians debate how successful it was

 

[Walrus]

I'm not sure but here are a few thoughts

If a person chooses to live in a democracy then don't they have to agree to abide by the will of the majority (within the limits of the constitution)?

If I could opt out of paying for any overseas militray bases and involvement in wars in other countries and related CIA crap, I might be interested. But if half the country did the same as me then wouldn't the other half have to pay double what they are paying now?

If someone opted out of medicare and didn't save the money to pay for care when they are old would we just let them die of heart disease laying outside the emergency room?

Is it even practically possible given how complex and interrelated things are?

 

[TheSeventhTiger]

how about 0% taxes for everyone and Obama can just keep printing it to pay the bills? oh, wait, he's already doing it.

 

[Youwerecreated]

Fair Tax or a Flat Tax I would support.

 

[Two Thumbs]

Somehow those who disagree with war--or even are morally opposed to particular wars--have never been exempt from paying for them. So these other crybabies need to get over themselves.

no one is opposed to war when their guy goes to war

look at dems calling reps warmongers; a simple count of wars and who was Pres will show anyone that 65% of the time we were 'sent' to war, it was a dem in charge