Your essential book list for politics.

[Annie]

A good civics program, which is nearly impossible to find today in regular schools:

We the People: The Citizen and the Constitution

It mentions all of the following:

Common Sense, Thomas Paine
Democracy in America, Alexis de Tocqueville (a good resource to go with, not sure if links all work:

In Search of Tocqueville's Democracy in America )

The Federalist and Anti-Federalist Papers.

 

[Annie]

I know you said three, but you really can't do Locke without Hobbes and neither of the other two should be left out.

On Liberty ... John Stewart Mill
Democracy in America... Alexis De Toqueville
Two Treatises of Government ... John Locke
The Leviathan ... Thomas Hobbes

Great list, though Locke and Mills are difficult even for AP students. Hobbes, oh they will get it. I've used Democracy in America for gifted 8th graders.

 

[jillian]

A good civics program, which is nearly impossible to find today in regular schools:

We the People: The Citizen and the Constitution

It mentions all of the following:

Common Sense, Thomas Paine
Democracy in America, Alexis de Tocqueville (a good resource to go with, not sure if links all work:

In Search of Tocqueville's Democracy in America )

The Federalist and Anti-Federalist Papers.

I'd stay away from that site ... it is nothing more than a blog... they should read the actual works and not what some rightwingnut with an agenda tells them it means.

as for the anti-federalist papers, they're an irrelevancy and most of the documents that go to making it up were published under a pseudonym so can't even be assessed.

 

[Intense]

My boy is 16 and my girl will be 14 too soon to contemplate. They will be voters soon!

I am going to ask them to read three basic books on politics if they read nothing else.

Federalist papers

Machiavellis's Discourses on Livy's Roman History

Road to Serfdom.


What three books would you recommend to a new voter?

If they're going to read the Federalist Papers I'd also recommend they read the Anti-Federalist Papers, just so they see the opposite argument and can come to their own conclusion as to who was ultimately right. Hayek's writing is dry and boring, so unless they're predisposed to read, and to read about political economy in particular, they probably won't enjoy The Road to Serfdom. It is a good book to read, however.

Liberty Library
of
Constitutional Classics

Liberty Library of Constitutional Classics


The Federalist Papers
The Federalist - Contents



Anti-Federalist Papers

Anti-Federalist Papers

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

A good civics program, which is nearly impossible to find today in regular schools:

We the People: The Citizen and the Constitution

It mentions all of the following:

Common Sense, Thomas Paine
Democracy in America, Alexis de Tocqueville (a good resource to go with, not sure if links all work:

In Search of Tocqueville's Democracy in America )

The Federalist and Anti-Federalist Papers.

I'd stay away from that site ... it is nothing more than a blog... they should read the actual works and not what some rightwingnut with an agenda tells them it means.

as for the anti-federalist papers, they're an irrelevancy and most of the documents that go to making it up were published under a pseudonym so can't even be assessed.

I don't think they're irrelevant, since they basically turned out to be right. However, the Federalist Papers were written under pseudonyms as well.

 

[Intense]

The Second Treatise of Civil Government
1690

John Locke
1632-1704
John Locke: Second Treatise of Civil Government

 

[Annie]

A good civics program, which is nearly impossible to find today in regular schools:

We the People: The Citizen and the Constitution

It mentions all of the following:

Common Sense, Thomas Paine
Democracy in America, Alexis de Tocqueville (a good resource to go with, not sure if links all work:

In Search of Tocqueville's Democracy in America )

The Federalist and Anti-Federalist Papers.

I'd stay away from that site ... it is nothing more than a blog... they should read the actual works and not what some rightwingnut with an agenda tells them it means.

as for the anti-federalist papers, they're an irrelevancy and most of the documents that go to making it up were published under a pseudonym so can't even be assessed.

Which one Jillian? We the People? From Center for Civic Education funded by Congress?

The Tocqueville site, by C-Span?

Which one is the blog? You've become very bitchy. That's ok, I still agree with you now and again.

 

[jillian]

A good civics program, which is nearly impossible to find today in regular schools:

We the People: The Citizen and the Constitution

It mentions all of the following:

Common Sense, Thomas Paine
Democracy in America, Alexis de Tocqueville (a good resource to go with, not sure if links all work:

In Search of Tocqueville's Democracy in America )

The Federalist and Anti-Federalist Papers.

I'd stay away from that site ... it is nothing more than a blog... they should read the actual works and not what some rightwingnut with an agenda tells them it means.

as for the anti-federalist papers, they're an irrelevancy and most of the documents that go to making it up were published under a pseudonym so can't even be assessed.

Which one Jillian? We the People? From Center for Civic Education funded by Congress?

The Tocqueville site, by C-Span?

Which one is the blog? You've become very bitchy. That's ok, I still agree with you now and again.

why would you send them to secondary sources when they can read the original works?

let them think about what they're reading and not have others tell them what they're reading.

i don't care *who* is funding it.

 

[jillian]

Amazon.com: Liberwocky: What Liberals Say and What They Really Mean (9780785260578): Victor Gold: Books

Liberwocky

The Federalist Papers
and of course.. The Constitution with some in depth discussion on what it really says, not what others interject into it or use to abuse it

The first two books aren't political scholarship... do you really think the man who wrote daddy bush's autobiography is the person to teach someone political philosophy?

And the constitution without the cases that form it's interpretive basis is only a partial story and the reason so many on the right get it wrong. (we're a common law country, court decisions and precedent ARE the manner in which we define our law).

 

[Annie]

I'd stay away from that site ... it is nothing more than a blog... they should read the actual works and not what some rightwingnut with an agenda tells them it means.

as for the anti-federalist papers, they're an irrelevancy and most of the documents that go to making it up were published under a pseudonym so can't even be assessed.

Which one Jillian? We the People? From Center for Civic Education funded by Congress?

The Tocqueville site, by C-Span?

Which one is the blog? You've become very bitchy. That's ok, I still agree with you now and again.

why would you send them to secondary sources when they can read the original works?

let them think about what they're reading and not have others tell them what they're reading.

i don't care *who* is funding it.

You didn't really look at the site, right? That's ok. The texts are about the history and political philosophy behind the Founder's thinking. Yes dear, it includes lessons to primary sources. The first text is geared from 3-5th grade, second from 6th-8th, and last 9th-12th.

Because it's funded by Congress, classroom teachers can get the texts for no cost to the school. It's a supplement to regular social studies text in most cases, though AP courses have used it and the Congressional hearings simulations and competitions successfully. The training available for secondary teachers is invaluable, though time consuming. However, there is a stipend that makes it worthwhile for many.

 

[iamwhatiseem]

Unless you have the life experience to go along with reading...it will do them no good.
A 14 year old reading most of these books will fall asleep before he/she turns the first page.
You want your child to learn?
Read newspapers, watch the news. Talk about what they see.
Get them to volunteer over the summer, get a paper route etc.

The books are okay once they attain an age where they can even begin to understand them - let alone apply what they read to the real world...which you need to be at least 30 to do so.

No, you don't.

Yes you certainly do.
I was once the wise ass college kid too. I read the books, I listened to liberal professors...I sat around talking with the other "enlightened" kids.

I knew 1/8th what I thought I did.
You will realize this too...beginning with the stupid avatar you have.

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

Unless you have the life experience to go along with reading...it will do them no good.
A 14 year old reading most of these books will fall asleep before he/she turns the first page.
You want your child to learn?
Read newspapers, watch the news. Talk about what they see.
Get them to volunteer over the summer, get a paper route etc.

The books are okay once they attain an age where they can even begin to understand them - let alone apply what they read to the real world...which you need to be at least 30 to do so.

No, you don't.

Yes you certainly do.
I was once the wise ass college kid too. I read the books, I listened to liberal professors...I sat around talking with the other "enlightened" kids.

I knew 1/8th what I thought I did.
You will realize this too...beginning with the stupid avatar you have.

The way you were in college has no reflection on me. There's no reason somebody shouldn't be able to read any of these works without understanding them before 30.

 

[jillian]

Unless you have the life experience to go along with reading...it will do them no good.
A 14 year old reading most of these books will fall asleep before he/she turns the first page.
You want your child to learn?
Read newspapers, watch the news. Talk about what they see.
Get them to volunteer over the summer, get a paper route etc.

The books are okay once they attain an age where they can even begin to understand them - let alone apply what they read to the real world...which you need to be at least 30 to do so.

No, you don't.

Yes you certainly do.
I was once the wise ass college kid too. I read the books, I listened to liberal professors...I sat around talking with the other "enlightened" kids.

I knew 1/8th what I thought I did.
You will realize this too...beginning with the stupid avatar you have.

and to supplement your learning from the people who actually knew what they were talking about you learned from whom?

 

[jillian]

Which one Jillian? We the People? From Center for Civic Education funded by Congress?

The Tocqueville site, by C-Span?

Which one is the blog? You've become very bitchy. That's ok, I still agree with you now and again.

why would you send them to secondary sources when they can read the original works?

let them think about what they're reading and not have others tell them what they're reading.

i don't care *who* is funding it.

You didn't really look at the site, right? That's ok. The texts are about the history and political philosophy behind the Founder's thinking. Yes dear, it includes lessons to primary sources. The first text is geared from 3-5th grade, second from 6th-8th, and last 9th-12th.

Because it's funded by Congress, classroom teachers can get the texts for no cost to the school. It's a supplement to regular social studies text in most cases, though AP courses have used it and the Congressional hearings simulations and competitions successfully. The training available for secondary teachers is invaluable, though time consuming. However, there is a stipend that makes it worthwhile for many.

Don't tell me what i looked at and what i didn't. I *did* look ...

I believe in reading source material, not what someone else tells you the source material says. And I think that's what was being asked for.

Even when I read cases, I read the actual case and not the headnotes.

THAT is why I commented as I did.

Besides, you're the blog queen... you don't like actual sources.

 

[Annie]

No, you don't.

Yes you certainly do.
I was once the wise ass college kid too. I read the books, I listened to liberal professors...I sat around talking with the other "enlightened" kids.

I knew 1/8th what I thought I did.
You will realize this too...beginning with the stupid avatar you have.

The way you were in college has no reflection on me. There's no reason somebody shouldn't be able to read any of these works without understanding them before 30.

You are correct, many high school students already are there, not to mention college students. No, the other poster is projecting his/her own experiences, which doesn't hold for all or perhaps most.

 

[Annie]

why would you send them to secondary sources when they can read the original works?

let them think about what they're reading and not have others tell them what they're reading.

i don't care *who* is funding it.

You didn't really look at the site, right? That's ok. The texts are about the history and political philosophy behind the Founder's thinking. Yes dear, it includes lessons to primary sources. The first text is geared from 3-5th grade, second from 6th-8th, and last 9th-12th.

Because it's funded by Congress, classroom teachers can get the texts for no cost to the school. It's a supplement to regular social studies text in most cases, though AP courses have used it and the Congressional hearings simulations and competitions successfully. The training available for secondary teachers is invaluable, though time consuming. However, there is a stipend that makes it worthwhile for many.

Don't tell me what i looked at and what i didn't. I *did* look ...

I believe in reading source material, not what someone else tells you the source material says. And I think that's what was being asked for.

Even when I read cases, I read the actual case and not the headnotes.

THAT is why I commented as I did.

Besides, you're the blog queen... you don't like actual sources.

Jillian, forgive me. I expected a real life attorney to be discerning regarding the difference between a message board and real life. My mistake where you are concerned it seems.

Blogs are great for those that have the tools to discriminate, which of course precludes most secondary students, though one would hope more for post-secondary, no? We'll not go towards post-grad, since that seems to be a problem here.

No, the Center for Civic Education is a first rate site, for programs regarding both civics and democracy. It's both domestic and international. That Jillian derides it, well seems now to speak volumes, since one of the primary objectives is incorporating primary source documents.

 

[iamwhatiseem]

No, you don't.

Yes you certainly do.
I was once the wise ass college kid too. I read the books, I listened to liberal professors...I sat around talking with the other "enlightened" kids.

I knew 1/8th what I thought I did.
You will realize this too...beginning with the stupid avatar you have.

The way you were in college has no reflection on me. There's no reason somebody shouldn't be able to read any of these works without understanding them before 30.

I didn't say you couldn't understand them.
I said understand them AND apply them to the real world.
Very big difference.

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

Yes you certainly do.
I was once the wise ass college kid too. I read the books, I listened to liberal professors...I sat around talking with the other "enlightened" kids.

I knew 1/8th what I thought I did.
You will realize this too...beginning with the stupid avatar you have.

The way you were in college has no reflection on me. There's no reason somebody shouldn't be able to read any of these works without understanding them before 30.

I didn't say you couldn't understand them.
I said understand them AND apply them to the real world.
Very big difference.

I'm sorry you weren't able to critically analyze these works when you were in college. Fortunately I don't have that problem.

 

[jillian]

You didn't really look at the site, right? That's ok. The texts are about the history and political philosophy behind the Founder's thinking. Yes dear, it includes lessons to primary sources. The first text is geared from 3-5th grade, second from 6th-8th, and last 9th-12th.

Because it's funded by Congress, classroom teachers can get the texts for no cost to the school. It's a supplement to regular social studies text in most cases, though AP courses have used it and the Congressional hearings simulations and competitions successfully. The training available for secondary teachers is invaluable, though time consuming. However, there is a stipend that makes it worthwhile for many.

Don't tell me what i looked at and what i didn't. I *did* look ...

I believe in reading source material, not what someone else tells you the source material says. And I think that's what was being asked for.

Even when I read cases, I read the actual case and not the headnotes.

THAT is why I commented as I did.

Besides, you're the blog queen... you don't like actual sources.

Jillian, forgive me. I expected a real life attorney to be discerning regarding the difference between a message board and real life. My mistake where you are concerned it seems.

Blogs are great for those that have the tools to discriminate, which of course precludes most secondary students, though one would hope more for post-secondary, no? We'll not go towards post-grad, since that seems to be a problem here.

No, the Center for Civic Education is a first rate site, for programs regarding both civics and democracy. It's both domestic and international. That Jillian derides it, well seems now to speak volumes, since one of the primary objectives is incorporating primary source documents.

can you write a post without an insult?

didn't think so.

dismissed. *yawn*

 

[iamwhatiseem]

The way you were in college has no reflection on me. There's no reason somebody shouldn't be able to read any of these works without understanding them before 30.

I didn't say you couldn't understand them.
I said understand them AND apply them to the real world.
Very big difference.

I'm sorry you weren't able to critically analyze these works when you were in college. Fortunately I don't have that problem.

And what are you using to be critical?
It is incredibly easy to think you know more than you know.
Once again - I will use your avatar as an example.
You think you are using wise judgement to display your desire to free this man?
Pheh...this is the same mindset of kids who walk around with Che t-shirts.