You People Who Think Separation of Church and State is Possible.......How Do You Reconcile Abortion??

[Carl in Michigan]

Ok, so why did they not allow polygamy that was allowed in the Bible?

Polygamy is not sanctioned in the Bible. God ALLOWED/TOLERATED it. That doesn't mean God okayed it.

Jesus said He intended, from the beginning, ONE MAN WITH ONE WOMAN

“Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh.”

 

[Mashmont]

I haven't read the entire thread, but the Founders never intended a separation of Church and State, not even Thomas Jefferson despite his 'wall of separation' metaphor in a letter to a colleague. All were pretty sure the Constitution would work only for a religious, moral, law abiding population.

John Adams once said, “Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious People. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other”.

What the Constitution intended was that no religious group would be able to control government to the point that it could use the government to force people into obeying any particular religious doctrine or dogma or forbid the people from any professed belief, doctrine or dogma. The early Congresses not only had regular prayer doing government business but sometimes held church services for the members. Those people fully expected religion to be a present and visible part of people's lives, all aspects of their lives, most especially those to whom it was important, but no power is given to them by the federal government to require anybody else to believe what they believe, profess, express.

It is as wrong to forbid that creche on the courthouse lawn as it would be to forbid a Star of David on Yom Kippur or any other religious symbol on a high holy day(s) of whatever religions are represented in a community if a particular group wanted to place such there.

Abortion is a matter of religious conscience for some, and a matter of principle for many others having nothing to do with religion. Separation of Church and State really doesn't factor into that much at all.

Right. I said the framers erred when they said the state couldn't back a religions, because they backed the religion of atheism in their notion of separation of church and state. The framers should have said we are a Christian nation, preferably a Catholic nation. That would have saved SO much strife. We wouldn't be having this abortion and gay marriage stuff today. America most decidely should NOT be an atheist country.

 

[Bezukhov]

There is no need for the 10 Commandments to be on the town square, unless other faiths are allowed to put displays there. After all, Christians don't have to at those either.

True, no need for the 10 Commandments. If they are going to be posted somewhere, next to it a caveat: "Some of these Commandments are allowed by the Constitution to be broken, and the government can't do jack shit about that".

 

[Mashmont]

Our gov't is secular. That is not necessarily atheist. If an institution demands that no religion is favored over another, therefore no individual religion is part of the gov't, that is secular.

An atheist gov't would not allow religions to exist.

OK. What is the secular position on abortion? Then we'll see if that differs from the atheist position. I guarantee you won't have an answer.

 

[Mashmont]

So it is perfectly fine for a woman to have a dead fetus inside her causing sepsis? There are numerous examples of things that could cost the life of the mother, and a choice must be made.

If the fetus is already dead, it's not an abortion.

 

[Mashmont]

No, I see our founders as religious men who understood that it would be a bad thing to have a national religion. They knew it would be bad to make this a christian nation.

They were wise.

You and Mashmouth are not...

They inadvertently set the stage to make it into an atheist nation. That's far worse. The First Amendment needs to be amended to prevent this disaster.

 

[Mashmont]

To claim that putting the 10 Commandments on display, especially in a State Supreme Courthouse lobby and not allowing any other displays there, is not the gov't selecting a specific religion or does not effect people of other faith is simply ridiculous.

Don't like it, don't look.

 

[WinterBorn]

People who attend a church have every right to participate in how government functions every bit as much as the religion of Atheism. Deal with it

And their faith will guide their decisions as elected officials.

 

[WinterBorn]

The purpose of the constitution is to limit the power of GOVERNMENT --nothing/no one else

And displays on the public square are using gov't land and gov't resources.

 

[WinterBorn]

Don't like it, don't look.

Then allow other faiths to put displays there too. You can "not look at it" as well as anyone else.

 

[Mashmont]

That's what you're after, right? Upsetting applecarts? The psychology of the internet troll is fascinating.

Actually, no. I state truth. Those who hate the truth are easily triggered into ranting profanity as you are. It's very similar to putting disinfectant on a pustule. They scream like hell.

 

[WinterBorn]

They inadvertently set the stage to make it into an atheist nation. That's far worse. The First Amendment needs to be amended to prevent this disaster.

As long as people of faith are elected to office, it is not an atheist nation.

You have often said that atheists should move to one of the 5 big atheist nations to see what it was like. Those atheists nations do not allow people to worship.

 

[Bezukhov]

Right. I said the framers erred when they said the state couldn't back a religions, because they backed the religion of atheism in their notion of separation of church and state. The framers should have said we are a Christian nation, preferably a Catholic nation. That would have saved SO much strife. We wouldn't be having this abortion and gay marriage stuff today. America most decidely should NOT be an atheist country.

1st Century Christians lived under a Pagan government. They were told, by their leaders, to shut up and deal with it. If living under a Pagan government was the norm for 1st Century Christians, living under an Atheist government today should be OK for you, Mashmont. So Shaddup about it!

 

[Mashmont]

Excellent thread? I recall your call for the US to formally declare itself a Christian nation being soundly beaten down by the overwhelming majority of poster who spoke on that thread. And people who are normally diametrically opposed to each other on these forums agreed that the idea is garbage.

But your ego is in charge of much of your posting.

The atheists did scream and yell; that's for sure. They don't want any talk of their power being usurped. As for winning the debate, they didn't and couldn't.

 

[WinterBorn]

OK. What is the secular position on abortion? Then we'll see if that differs from the atheist position. I guarantee you won't have an answer.

I certainly have an answer. In cases of a threat to the life of the mother, or to remove a dead fetus, it should be allowed. Everything else is up to the state gov'ts.

 

[WinterBorn]

If the fetus is already dead, it's not an abortion.

Yes, it is.

 

[Mashmont]

Deal.

Good.

 

[Canon Shooter]

They inadvertently set the stage to make it into an atheist nation. That's far worse. The First Amendment needs to be amended to prevent this disaster.

Religious nations murder those who do not adhere to that nation's religion.

That will happen if you get your way. That's what you're advocating...

 

[Mashmont]

Then allow other faiths to put displays there too. You can "not look at it" as well as anyone else.

OK, so you're for that. Excellent start.
Winterborn believes we should allow faiths to put religious displays in the public square, people.

 

[Mashmont]

Religious nations murder those who do not adhere to that nation's religion.

That will happen if you get your way. That's what you're advocating...

Which Catholic nation is doing that? Besides none.
We already know atheist nations killed 150 million in the last century and are CURRENTLY killing and imprisoning people who challenge their atheism today.