You have no right to plant a garden and eat the vegetables

[uscitizen]

And do you know who would be behind such legislation? Try Cargill and Monsanto. They want to control and profit from EVERY bite of food you put in your mouth and that is grown in the ground. These are two of the most sinister and dangerous corporations out there. THIS is the very reason we need to get all corporate influence OUT of our government, especially these guys.

Break the Monopolies. Encourage Free Market Principle and competition. Business Minds in Government are not always a bad thing, sometimes very necessary when establishing balance.

too late Monsanto won a supreme court decision giving the virtual control of all soybean seed stocks in the USA.
If a neighbors field contains patented genetically altered monsanto soybeans and cross pollenates with your field you now cannot sell or use your own seeds, they now belong to Monsanto.

Thomas worked the case even though he used to represent Monsanto.

 

[whitehall]

The peoples republik of California just enacted a law which requires motels to use the correct size when they change sheets or risk raids from the sheet police and subsequent fines or imprisonment for multiple offenses. The world is upside down under liberalism.

 

[uscitizen]

The peoples republik of California just enacted a law which requires motels to use the correct size when they change sheets or risk raids from the sheet police and subsequent fines or imprisonment for multiple offenses. The world is upside down under liberalism.

California has always been nutz, but the whole world is becuase of a California law?

 

[Intense]

And do you know who would be behind such legislation? Try Cargill and Monsanto. They want to control and profit from EVERY bite of food you put in your mouth and that is grown in the ground. These are two of the most sinister and dangerous corporations out there. THIS is the very reason we need to get all corporate influence OUT of our government, especially these guys.

Break the Monopolies. Encourage Free Market Principle and competition. Business Minds in Government are not always a bad thing, sometimes very necessary when establishing balance.

too late Monsanto won a supreme court decision giving the virtual control of all soybean seed stocks in the USA.
If a neighbors field contains patented genetically altered monsanto soybeans and cross pollenates with your field you now cannot sell or use your own seeds, they now belong to Monsanto.

Thomas worked the case even though he used to represent Monsanto.

Big problem with Court Precedent, huh. Fight to overturn it. Justice First. Question and Challenge Hypocrisy where you find it.

 

[uscitizen]

Break the Monopolies. Encourage Free Market Principle and competition. Business Minds in Government are not always a bad thing, sometimes very necessary when establishing balance.

too late Monsanto won a supreme court decision giving the virtual control of all soybean seed stocks in the USA.
If a neighbors field contains patented genetically altered monsanto soybeans and cross pollenates with your field you now cannot sell or use your own seeds, they now belong to Monsanto.

Thomas worked the case even though he used to represent Monsanto.

Big problem with Court Precedent, huh. Fight to overturn it. Justice First. Question and Challenge Hypocrisy where you find it.

Umm how does one overturn a supreme court decision?

 

[Intense]

You are confusing Unfair Lobbying Interests with All Business Interest.

Where do you think 99% of our legislation comes from, and why is it always so blatantly pro-corporate? It certainly does not do anything beneficial for the majority of our population. One of the roles of government is to protect it's citizens, but it seems that the only ones being protected are corporations. Not one piece of legislation bought with lobbyist money has EVER been for the benefit of regular American citizens. This is the absolute truth.

The issue is not Corporate, it is Hypocrisy.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Whenever anyone asks me why I think the government is the problem I think of things like this.

This court is unwilling to declare that there is a fundamental right to consume the food of one's choice without first being presented with significantly more developed arguments on both sides of the issue." Gee, I thought they both had to do with the right to decide what to do with your own body. As if to show how pissed he was at being questioned, he said his decision translates further that "no, Plaintiffs to not have a fundamental right to own and use a dairy cow or a dairy herd;
"no, Plaintiffs do not have a fundamental right to consume the milk from their own cow;"
And in a kind of exclamation point, he added this to his list of no-nos: "no, Plaintiffs do not have a fundamental right to produce and consume the foods of their choice..."

WI Judge to Zinniker, FTCLDF: No "Fundamental Right" to Own a Cow, or Consume Its Milk...Am I Making Myself*Clear? - Journal - The Complete Patient - The Business of Your Health

I am sure someone thinks this idiot is right, but I cannot imagine it.

Where does it say it in the Constitution?

In the Ninth Amendment:

The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.

​

Idiot

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Whenever anyone asks me why I think the government is the problem I think of things like this.

This court is unwilling to declare that there is a fundamental right to consume the food of one's choice without first being presented with significantly more developed arguments on both sides of the issue." Gee, I thought they both had to do with the right to decide what to do with your own body. As if to show how pissed he was at being questioned, he said his decision translates further that "no, Plaintiffs to not have a fundamental right to own and use a dairy cow or a dairy herd;
"no, Plaintiffs do not have a fundamental right to consume the milk from their own cow;"
And in a kind of exclamation point, he added this to his list of no-nos: "no, Plaintiffs do not have a fundamental right to produce and consume the foods of their choice..."

WI Judge to Zinniker, FTCLDF: No "Fundamental Right" to Own a Cow, or Consume Its Milk...Am I Making Myself*Clear? - Journal - The Complete Patient - The Business of Your Health

I am sure someone thinks this idiot is right, but I cannot imagine it.

Pasteurized Milk - Just Another Big Government Evil Thing They Force On Us

Funny how you focus on trivial details and ignore the facts. Typical of how you approach every debate though, at least you are consistent.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Anyone read the article? The judge just said that having a cow and consuming your own milk is a states right thing.

The Federal constitution said nothing about certain foods being protected by the constitution.

So how can strict constitutalionists disagree with this decision?
Especially if they are against the FDA.

That is not what he is saying.

What he actually said is that, even though Wisconsin law specifically allows people to do exactly what these people were doing, they still cannot do it because the state suddenly decided that they had a store, not a farm. He then said that not only do they not have a right under state law to do what state law says they can do, they also do not have a right under the Constitution to grow food in a garden and eat it because it is not mentioned in the Constitution. Apparently he, like you, forgot about the Ninth Amendment.

Idiots.

 

[Mr. Peepers]

The issue is not Corporate, it is Hypocrisy.

Wrong. The issue is 150% out-of-control corporate power over our government & election processes. Money is not speech, nor should it EVER be where our government is concerned. Come on, you know this is true. You'd have to be blind and live in a cave not to see its effects in every single aspect of our lives. We are only as free as the corporations (and their political cronies) allow us to be. THEY are the ones pushing legislation such as this. And people like me, who you would consider a "progressive" and a soon to be organic farmer, are fighting it tooth and nail through grass-roots methods, but we don't have millions to throw at lobbyists - nor do the other small farmers affected by such legislation, thus we don't have much of a voice. Do you not see something alarmingly wrong with this?

 

[percysunshine]

And do you know who would be behind such legislation? Try Cargill and Monsanto. They want to control and profit from EVERY bite of food you put in your mouth and that is grown in the ground. These are two of the most sinister and dangerous corporations out there. THIS is the very reason we need to get all corporate influence OUT of our government, especially these guys.

Obama really likes Solyndra.

 

[Intense]

The issue is not Corporate, it is Hypocrisy.

Wrong. The issue is 150% out-of-control corporate power over our government & election processes. Money is not speech, nor should it EVER be where our government is concerned. Come on, you know this is true. You'd have to be blind and live in a cave not to see its effects in every single aspect of our lives. We are only as free as the corporations (and their political cronies) allow us to be. THEY are the ones pushing legislation such as this. And people like me, who you would consider a "progressive" and a soon to be organic farmer, are fighting it tooth and nail through grass-roots methods, but we don't have millions to throw at lobbyists - nor do the other small farmers affected by such legislation, thus we don't have much of a voice. Do you not see something alarmingly wrong with this?

We disagree. Totalitarianism is the Greater Threat, and from My Perspective, that comes more from the Left than the Right. For the Record, I fight it wherever it comes from. Control can come from power or money, the force of law, stronger than the power of the purse, or indebtedness.
When we accept Government by the Consent of the Governed, it does not mean that we are perfect, without flaw. It means more that we have the opportunity to improve and benefit by learning from our mistakes, improving, on what it. That starts with honest Witness and account. Communication.
Statism, Centralized Control, One Size fits all, is a lie. Learning to take responsibility, living life through one's own eye's is a process, it involves give and take, personal responsibility.

I'm into Organic's. Helped manage a couple of Wholesale Distributors years back out in California. There are good and bad in all people and things. Learn to distinguish between Regulation designed to protect and save lives, and Regulation designed to give Unfair Advantage.

Regulation designed to protect in the Sale of Organic Raw Milk V.S., Private Domestic usage on a Private Property. Perspective, Context, matter here. If you are going into Business there are Industry Standards that vary State to State, and there are Federal Standards, one would be expected to comply to.

You have specific challenges to Rules, establish your case.

Not all Corporations are interested in Monopoly, or unfair competition. Liberty, is based in part on Private Property. It is one of many founding Principles. Give that up and you are the Property of The state. Those that are willing to steal it from the Rich by singling them out and targeting them, can so much easily steal it from You or I, in the name of what is best for some other group. When the full course is run here, no one will be safe. You either Establish Justice and work to serve it, or you find yourself on the other side.

 

[Sunshine]

I don' understand all the hysteria over this. The term 'fundamental right' is a legal term:

Fundamental rights are a generally-regarded set of entitlements in the context of a legal system, wherein such system is itself said to be based upon this same set of basic, fundamental, or inalienable entitlements or "rights." Such rights thus belong without presumption or cost of privilege to all human beings under such jurisdiction. The concept of human rights has been promoted as a legal concept in large part due to the idea that human beings have such "fundamental" rights, such that transcend all jurisdiction, but are typically reinforced in different ways and with different emphasis within different legal systems.

For example, in United States law, "fundamental rights" are a feature of the U.S. Constitution, which, in the language of the U.S. Declaration of Independence, "all [human beings]" are "endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, among these [being]:"

1.Life - (cf. right to life)
2.Liberty (cf. freedom, free will, personal liberty)
3.the pursuit of Happiness (cf. personal fulfillment, professional accomplishment, basic comforts, human pleasures, luxuries, vices)

Fundamental rights - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I can be a redhead if I want. But it is not a fundamental right, and nowhere is it the right of a hairdresser to make me a redhead without a license from the state.

It is the same with this milk stuff. You can drink milk from your own cow if you want. If you can't, then please introduce is to the cow police. (You just can't go out and sell it.) And while you are drinking that unpasteurized milk, just hope and pray you don't get scrofula:

crof·u·la (skrfy-l)
n.
A form of tuberculosis affecting the lymph nodes, especially of the neck, that is most common in children and is usually spread by unpasteurized milk from infected cows. Also called struma.

scrofula - definition of scrofula in the Medical dictionary - by the Free Online Medical Dictionary, Thesaurus and Encyclopedia.

I have tasted raw milk.

I would hate to think that I had to taste something that bad AND get scrofula!

 

[Intense]

I don' understand all the hysteria over this. The term 'fundamental right' is a legal term:

Fundamental rights are a generally-regarded set of entitlements in the context of a legal system, wherein such system is itself said to be based upon this same set of basic, fundamental, or inalienable entitlements or "rights." Such rights thus belong without presumption or cost of privilege to all human beings under such jurisdiction. The concept of human rights has been promoted as a legal concept in large part due to the idea that human beings have such "fundamental" rights, such that transcend all jurisdiction, but are typically reinforced in different ways and with different emphasis within different legal systems.

For example, in United States law, "fundamental rights" are a feature of the U.S. Constitution, which, in the language of the U.S. Declaration of Independence, "all [human beings]" are "endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, among these [being]:"

1.Life - (cf. right to life)
2.Liberty (cf. freedom, free will, personal liberty)
3.the pursuit of Happiness (cf. personal fulfillment, professional accomplishment, basic comforts, human pleasures, luxuries, vices)

Fundamental rights - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I can be a redhead if I want. But it is not a fundamental right, and nowhere is it the right of a hairdresser to make me a redhead without a license from the state.

It is the same with this milk stuff. You can drink milk from your own cow if you want. If you can't, then please introduce is to the cow police. (You just can't go out and sell it.) And while you are drinking that unpasteurized milk, just hope and pray you don't get scrofula:

crof·u·la (skrfy-l)
n.
A form of tuberculosis affecting the lymph nodes, especially of the neck, that is most common in children and is usually spread by unpasteurized milk from infected cows. Also called struma.

scrofula - definition of scrofula in the Medical dictionary - by the Free Online Medical Dictionary, Thesaurus and Encyclopedia.

I have tasted raw milk.

I would hate to think that I had to taste something that bad AND get scrofula!

I've drunken much in my time, though it has been a while. I have no problem with it.

 

[Sunshine]

I don' understand all the hysteria over this. The term 'fundamental right' is a legal term:

Fundamental rights are a generally-regarded set of entitlements in the context of a legal system, wherein such system is itself said to be based upon this same set of basic, fundamental, or inalienable entitlements or "rights." Such rights thus belong without presumption or cost of privilege to all human beings under such jurisdiction. The concept of human rights has been promoted as a legal concept in large part due to the idea that human beings have such "fundamental" rights, such that transcend all jurisdiction, but are typically reinforced in different ways and with different emphasis within different legal systems.

For example, in United States law, "fundamental rights" are a feature of the U.S. Constitution, which, in the language of the U.S. Declaration of Independence, "all [human beings]" are "endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, among these [being]:"

1.Life - (cf. right to life)
2.Liberty (cf. freedom, free will, personal liberty)
3.the pursuit of Happiness (cf. personal fulfillment, professional accomplishment, basic comforts, human pleasures, luxuries, vices)

Fundamental rights - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I can be a redhead if I want. But it is not a fundamental right, and nowhere is it the right of a hairdresser to make me a redhead without a license from the state.

It is the same with this milk stuff. You can drink milk from your own cow if you want. If you can't, then please introduce is to the cow police. (You just can't go out and sell it.) And while you are drinking that unpasteurized milk, just hope and pray you don't get scrofula:

crof·u·la (skrfy-l)
n.
A form of tuberculosis affecting the lymph nodes, especially of the neck, that is most common in children and is usually spread by unpasteurized milk from infected cows. Also called struma.

scrofula - definition of scrofula in the Medical dictionary - by the Free Online Medical Dictionary, Thesaurus and Encyclopedia.

I have tasted raw milk.

I would hate to think that I had to taste something that bad AND get scrofula!

I've drunken much in my time, though it has been a while. I have no problem with it.

You're lucky you didn't get scrofula:

File:Scrofula.jpeg - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Intense]

I don' understand all the hysteria over this. The term 'fundamental right' is a legal term:



Fundamental rights - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I can be a redhead if I want. But it is not a fundamental right, and nowhere is it the right of a hairdresser to make me a redhead without a license from the state.

It is the same with this milk stuff. You can drink milk from your own cow if you want. If you can't, then please introduce is to the cow police. (You just can't go out and sell it.) And while you are drinking that unpasteurized milk, just hope and pray you don't get scrofula:



scrofula - definition of scrofula in the Medical dictionary - by the Free Online Medical Dictionary, Thesaurus and Encyclopedia.

I have tasted raw milk.

I would hate to think that I had to taste something that bad AND get scrofula!

I've drunken much in my time, though it has been a while. I have no problem with it.

You're lucky you didn't get scrofula:

File:Scrofula.jpeg - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I'll live. We are pretty resilient.

 

[Mr. Peepers]

Not all Corporations are interested in Monopoly, or unfair competition.

Oh really??? Just one example... just one...

 

[OohPooPahDoo]

Whenever anyone asks me why I think the government is the problem I think of things like this.


WI Judge to Zinniker, FTCLDF: No "Fundamental Right" to Own a Cow, or Consume Its Milk...Am I Making Myself*Clear? - Journal - The Complete Patient - The Business of Your Health

I am sure someone thinks this idiot is right, but I cannot imagine it.

Pasteurized Milk - Just Another Big Government Evil Thing They Force On Us

Funny how you focus on trivial details and ignore the facts. Typical of how you approach every debate though, at least you are consistent.

I apologize for bringing up the details of the ruling, I know that's irrelevant, all that really matters is how the ruling makes us feew.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Pasteurized Milk - Just Another Big Government Evil Thing They Force On Us

Funny how you focus on trivial details and ignore the facts. Typical of how you approach every debate though, at least you are consistent.

I apologize for bringing up the details of the ruling, I know that's irrelevant, all that really matters is how the ruling makes us feew.

What details of the ruling did you focus on? Did you discuss how Wisconsin state law actually allows people who own a cow to drink unpasteurized milk? Or that it actually allows people to purchase a partial ownership of a cow so that they can partake of the raw milk products? Did you wonder what made this particular dairy operation exempt from the protections afforded under the law to owners of dairy animals? Was there any thought at all to wondering how a Wisconsin state judge could read the law in Wisconsin, acknowledge it in his ruling, and still decide that no one has a right to partake of the products of an animal they own?

Or did you just jump to the triviality that pasteurized milk is an evil attempt by big government to control our lives?

It amazes me how many people in this thread try to chide me for not reading the decision when they obviously did not read it themselves.

 

[Dragon]

Has anyone bothered to read the actual opinion? How about the Wisconsin statute that is referenced in it? This is not nearly as draconian as some of your jerking knees would suggest. That's more obviously the case if you have a little bit of awareness of how legal language is constructed, so that you might know that "There is no fundamental right to drink unpasteurized milk" does not mean "you may not drink unpasteurized milk," but only that "the state may regulate the production and sale of milk for public health purposes without violating people's fundamental rights."

You may find the statute in question here: http://www.ftcldf.org/news/wi_statute-9724_milk_and_milk_products.pdf. If you scroll down to section 2, you will find that the law does not prohibit people from drinking milk from their own cows, but simply prohibits the SALE of unpasteurized milk.

I could see a huge problem with what some of you guys THINK this decision says, but nothing whatever with what it ACTUALLY says.