"You didn't get there on your own"

[saveliberty]

Listening to you just reinforces a universal truth.

Liberalism is trust of the people, tempered by prudence; conservatism, distrust of people, tempered by fear.
William E. Gladstone

Prudence? Like fiscal conservatism? Balanced budgets? Liberalism also expected people to be educated and preserve liberty.

 

[Bfgrn]

You have to understand that I don't believe Bfgn has ever had an original thought. He has certain sites he goes to for the purpose of cutting and pasting a 'sound bite' that he presumes is a dig at whatever the rest of us have posted.

In the case of Gladstone's quotation however, in the 19th century, Gladstone's (and everybody else's) definition of conservative was very close to the definition of the modern day leftist/progressive/liberal. And the definition of liberal at that time was very close to the definition of th modern day American conservative/rightwinger/classical liberal.

So he got it right. He intended it to be a gig at our conservatism but in fact posted a quotation defending it.

We have gone over this before. You do not have a liberal bone in your body. You are a conservative to the core.

Classical liberals assume a natural equality of humans; conservatives assume a natural hierarchy.
James M. Buchanan

Buchanan is saying exactly what I have been saying about conservatives, you ARE the 'peasants for plutocracy' poster in the flesh.

There is one constant since man walked upright...human nature. Gladstone's truths applies even MORE today with the propaganda machine conservatives parrot.

As I read your posts, others like T and Listening, it is nothing but partisan bullshit. I was on numerous message boards when Bush was in office, there was not a PEEP of this paranoid tin foil crap...

Yeah we have been over this before. And you still don't have a clue what classical liberalism is, what period of history it comes from, and you don't have a clue that the Gladstone quotation you cited, for his time, meant the exact opposite of what you thought it said.

If you go with Buchanan or Gladstone to make your case, you are lifting up modern day conservatives as the true progressives and lover of liberty, and the modern day liberal as the authoritarian government controlling the people by instilling fear.

But keep it up. You're finally cutting and pasting some really good stuff even if you are shooting yourself in the foot.

Yea, here is what F.A. Hayek said about conservatism, in Why I Am Not A Conservative. It reinforces what Buchanan said and expands on it. Hayek considered Gladstone one of the three greatest liberals.

"The conservative position rests on the belief that in any society there are recognizably superior persons whose inherited standards and values and position ought to be protected and who should have a greater influence on public affairs than others. The liberal, of course, does not deny that there are some superior people – he is not an egalitarian – but he denies that anyone has authority to decide who these superior people are. While the conservative inclines to defend a particular established hierarchy and wishes authority to protect the status of those whom he values, the liberal feels that no respect for established values can justify the resort to privilege or monopoly or any other coercive power of the state in order to shelter such people against the forces of economic change. Though he is fully aware of the important role that cultural and intellectual elites have played in the evolution of civilization, he also believes that these elites have to prove themselves by their capacity to maintain their position under the same rules that apply to all others."

And Hayek addresses the questions you folks refuse to answer. WHERE was the angst and paranoia whan Bush was in office?

"In general, it can probably be said that the conservative does not object to coercion or arbitrary power so long as it is used for what he regards as the right purposes. He believes that if government is in the hands of decent men, it ought not to be too much restricted by rigid rules. Since he is essentially opportunist and lacks principles, his main hope must be that the wise and the good will rule - not merely by example, as we all must wish, but by authority given to them and enforced by them. Like the socialist, he is less concerned with the problem of how the powers of government should be limited than with that of who wields them; and, like the socialist, he regards himself as entitled to force the value he holds on other people.

When I say that the conservative lacks principles, I do not mean to suggest that he lacks moral conviction. The typical conservative is indeed usually a man of very strong moral convictions. What I mean is that he has no political principles which enable him to work with people whose moral values differ from his own for a political order in which both can obey their convictions."

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

Yea, here is what F.A. Hayek said about conservatism, in Why I Am Not A Conservative

Dear, Milton Friedman was a liberal too. Why not read Freedom and Capitalism?? In the intro he explains that he is a classical liberal, i.e., for very very limited government!

You really are shaming yourself badly!!

 

[Amazed]

From Federalist 10:

It is in vain to say that enlightened statesmen will be able to adjust these clashing interests, and render them all subservient to the public good. Enlightened statesmen will not always be at the helm. Nor, in many cases, can such an adjustment be made at all without taking into view indirect and remote considerations, which will rarely prevail over the immediate interest which one party may find in disregarding the rights of another or the good of the whole.

The inference to which we are brought is, that the CAUSES of faction cannot be removed, and that relief is only to be sought in the means of controlling its EFFECTS.

************************

And thus we see that distrust of the government is a good thing.

Liberalism does not trust people. It trusts government.

Big difference.

Big mistake.

Your pontificating grows old.

You have to understand that I don't believe Bfgn has ever had an original thought. He has certain sites he goes to for the purpose of cutting and pasting a 'sound bite' that he presumes is a dig at whatever the rest of us have posted.

In the case of Gladstone's quotation however, in the 19th century, Gladstone's (and everybody else's) definition of conservative was very close to the definition of the modern day leftist/progressive/liberal. And the definition of liberal at that time was very close to the definition of th modern day American conservative/rightwinger/classical liberal.

So he got it right. He intended it to be a gig at our conservatism but in fact posted a quotation defending it.

We have gone over this before. You do not have a liberal bone in your body. You are a conservative to the core.

Classical liberals assume a natural equality of humans; conservatives assume a natural hierarchy.
James M. Buchanan

Buchanan is saying exactly what I have been saying about conservatives, you ARE the 'peasants for plutocracy' poster in the flesh.

There is one constant since man walked upright...human nature. Gladstone's truths applies even MORE today with the propaganda machine conservatives parrot.

As I read your posts, others like T and Listening, it is nothing but partisan bullshit. I was on numerous message boards when Bush was in office, there was not a PEEP of this paranoid tin foil crap...

Good little commie central planner aren't you?

 

[pwjohn]

It's not mocking anything.

That's the truth.

 

[Bfgrn]

We have gone over this before. You do not have a liberal bone in your body. You are a conservative to the core.

Classical liberals assume a natural equality of humans; conservatives assume a natural hierarchy.

ROTFLMAO

When you read liberal authors through the ages, one thing they have in common is the concept of an intellectual elite who should be given charge for making decisions.

You are so full of s**t, your eyes are probably brown.

And we are still gonna whack Social Security.

Yea, THAT is what we need to do. Let's go after the weakest, most fragile and vulnerable people in our society. Let's take away any security and dignity in the final years of their life. A life that paved the way for the next generation.

Instead, when they finally retire (probably just work until they die) and keep younger people from taking over those jobs, we will hand them a CUP, so they can spend every day of their final years begging. Conservatives would LOVE that...

You shall rise up before the gray-headed and honor the aged, and you shall revere your God; I am the Lord.
Leviticus 19:32

 

[P@triot]

We have gone over this before. You do not have a liberal bone in your body. You are a conservative to the core.

Classical liberals assume a natural equality of humans; conservatives assume a natural hierarchy.

ROTFLMAO

When you read liberal authors through the ages, one thing they have in common is the concept of an intellectual elite who should be given charge for making decisions.

You are so full of s**t, your eyes are probably brown.

And we are still gonna whack Social Security.

Yea, THAT is what we need to do. Let's go after the weakest, most fragile and vulnerable people in our society. Let's take away any security and dignity in the final years of their life. A life that paved the way for the next generation.

Instead, when they finally retire (probably just work until they die) and keep younger people from taking over those jobs, we will hand them a CUP, so they can spend every day of their final years begging. Conservatives would LOVE that...

You shall rise up before the gray-headed and honor the aged, and you shall revere your God; I am the Lord.
Leviticus 19:32

So if they have worked their entire life, why exactly would they need Social Security???

Oh that's right, the idiot liberal spends lavishly on vacations, iPad's, iPhones, and other gadgets, then expect hard working conservatives to provide for them for the rest of their lives. If you have worked your entire life, you have ZERO excuse for not having the money set aside for your own retirement.

 

[ecinicola]

i'm sure all the business people in the country love hearing this shit from obama

unfrikenbelievable

please vote this progressive idiot out

well, his statement could go both ways, but it certainly put down the hard worker and person that achieves something on their own. It was sorta a insult.
People do achieve things on their own without the help of others. It is the person, their effort and their achievement.

 

[P@triot]

Classical liberals assume a natural equality of humans; conservatives assume a natural hierarchy.

And here we see the ignorant communist ideology of Bfgrn on full display

I don't know how to break this to you cupcake, but humans are not created equal.*

Thomas Edison, Albert Einstein, and Bill Gates were born exponentially more intelligent than the rest of us.

Henry Ford, Warren Buffet, and Steve Jobs were born exponentially more driven than the rest of us.

George Washington, Pat Tillman, and Marcus Luttrell were born exponentially more courageous than the rest of us.

Dan Marino, Michael Jordan, and Babe Ruth were born exponentially more athletic than the rest of us.

I could go on forever, but anyone who is not a liberal gets the point by now. The liberal wants equal results for all (ie communism), but refuses to acknowledge that there is not an equality of effort, talent, etc.

The only thing that the framers intended to be EQUAL for all citizens was our RIGHTS!

 

[Amazed]

We have gone over this before. You do not have a liberal bone in your body. You are a conservative to the core.

Classical liberals assume a natural equality of humans; conservatives assume a natural hierarchy.

ROTFLMAO

When you read liberal authors through the ages, one thing they have in common is the concept of an intellectual elite who should be given charge for making decisions.

You are so full of s**t, your eyes are probably brown.

And we are still gonna whack Social Security.

Yea, THAT is what we need to do. Let's go after the weakest, most fragile and vulnerable people in our society. Let's take away any security and dignity in the final years of their life. A life that paved the way for the next generation.

Instead, when they finally retire (probably just work until they die) and keep younger people from taking over those jobs, we will hand them a CUP, so they can spend every day of their final years begging. Conservatives would LOVE that...

You shall rise up before the gray-headed and honor the aged, and you shall revere your God; I am the Lord.
Leviticus 19:32

BJ...you a communist?

 

[P@triot]

It's not mocking anything.

That's the truth.

Mostly because they believe (due to their extreme ignorance and lack of education) that Marxism and Communism are radical "new" ideas that have never been tried before and which hold the key to a utopian society.

Liberals reject facts and history, which is why they lack rational thought. In addition, what little history they do know, is completely false history (like George Washington and the cherry tree bullshit taught in schools ) because that's what centralized planning ideology does - warps history and controls the flow of information to further the agenda of the centralized planner.

 

[Dr Grump]

It reads exactly like what it is. A socialist has infested the White House. The entitlement crowd has cheered and wants al the more than what they have. No price is too high in achieving their ends.

Grow up. If you think he's a socialist you have no idea what the term means. Go live in Cuba, China or god forbid North Korea, then tell me Obama is a socialist. This is where the likes of you and your peanut gallery lose credibility. Dislike his policies, sure. Disagree with his stance on certain things. I get that. But a socialist? GTF outta here. You do realise you're put in the same category as lefties who would call a right-wing pollie like Romney a Nazi, right. IOW - cuckoo...

Do you think Cuba, China, or North Korea or the U.S.S.R. just became totalitarian states BAM overnight? People went to bed under freedom one night and the next morning woke up to a communist country? Do you think Hitler or Mussolini transformed their countries into facist states without that requiring a developing process over some time?

No in all cases it required government propaganda to convince the people that government was the solution to their worst problems, and that a charismatic leader could lead them to a prosperous bright new existence beyond their wildest dreams. In all cases people were encouraged to look to government as their savior rather than to their own industry.

And it was a focus on the 'collective' instead of individual freedom that allowed totalitarian governments to be installed in each and every one of those countries.

Um, yes they more or less did become Communist 'overnight'...especially in the case of Cuba and North Korea. And you think Cubans, under Batista, were free? Really? Under the Tsars of Russia? Really? Do you read history books?

And yeah, Obama's philisophy is sooooo linked with Kim Il Jong, Mao, Castro and Lenin...Give me a break. If you even think his philosophy even touches on what they did/do, then you don't have a clue...

C'mon Foxy, I expect this kind of horseshit from the rabid right....but you?

 

[Dr Grump]

I was on a plane home thursday night, and I sat next to a guy who's a salesman for some big trucking company. He said business for his company was booming because all the little guys are bailing. They just can't handle the cost of dealing with all of the new regulations the Obama administration has imposed on them. He said a company needs a corporate sized financial department to deal with all the government red tape, even if they only have three trucks.

That's why this recovery is so anemic. Obama is driving all the small business owners out of business.

b-b-but that's capitalism right? You like Walmart and McDonalds, right?

 

[Bfgrn]

ROTFLMAO

When you read liberal authors through the ages, one thing they have in common is the concept of an intellectual elite who should be given charge for making decisions.

You are so full of s**t, your eyes are probably brown.

And we are still gonna whack Social Security.

Yea, THAT is what we need to do. Let's go after the weakest, most fragile and vulnerable people in our society. Let's take away any security and dignity in the final years of their life. A life that paved the way for the next generation.

Instead, when they finally retire (probably just work until they die) and keep younger people from taking over those jobs, we will hand them a CUP, so they can spend every day of their final years begging. Conservatives would LOVE that...

You shall rise up before the gray-headed and honor the aged, and you shall revere your God; I am the Lord.
Leviticus 19:32

So if they have worked their entire life, why exactly would they need Social Security???

Oh that's right, the idiot liberal spends lavishly on vacations, iPad's, iPhones, and other gadgets, then expect hard working conservatives to provide for them for the rest of their lives. If you have worked your entire life, you have ZERO excuse for not having the money set aside for your own retirement.

Hey doggy breath, those people PAID INTO Social Security their whole working lives. It is social insurance, not a handout. Social Security assures a minimum quality of life for older Americans.

Thank you for exhibiting your ignorant stereotyping. Only liberals spend lavishly on vacations, iPad's, iPhones, and other gadgets. Only liberals have abortions. Only liberals are on welfare. Only liberals receive food stamps.

Ironically, it is the RED states that suck the most federal money.

The conservative movement's favorite philosopher Ayn Rand's novels divided the world into two groups. On one hand, she lionized "producers" -- noble, intelligent Übermenschen whose faith in their own ideas and willingness to take risks to achieve their dreams drives everything else in society. And she called out the evil of "parasites," the dull, unimaginative masses who attach themselves to producers and drain away their resources and thwart their dreams.

Conservatives love this story. They're eager to claim the gleaming mantle of the producers, insisting loudly that their tax money is going to support people (mostly in blue states and cities, it's darkly implied) who won't or can't work as hard as they do. If you want to arouse their class and race resentments, there are few narratives that can get them rolling like this producers-versus-parasites tale.

But the conservative interpretation of events is 100 percent, 180-degrees, flat-out wrong. America's real producer class is overwhelmingly concentrated in the blue cities and states -- the regions full of smart, talented people who've harnessed technology and intellect to money, and made these regions the best, most forward-looking places in the country to live.

And the real parasites are centered in red states (the only exceptions being states with huge resource reserves, like Alaska and Texas) -- the unimaginative, exhausted places that have clung to a fading past, rejected science, substituted superstition for sense, and refused to invest in their own futures. It's not unfair to say that those regions are simply feasting off the sweat of our ennobling labor, and expecting us to continue supporting them as they go about their wealth-destroying ways.

And we producers have had enough.

 

[Listening]

We have gone over this before. You do not have a liberal bone in your body. You are a conservative to the core.

Classical liberals assume a natural equality of humans; conservatives assume a natural hierarchy.

ROTFLMAO

When you read liberal authors through the ages, one thing they have in common is the concept of an intellectual elite who should be given charge for making decisions.

You are so full of s**t, your eyes are probably brown.

And we are still gonna whack Social Security.

Yea, THAT is what we need to do. Let's go after the weakest, most fragile and vulnerable people in our society. Let's take away any security and dignity in the final years of their life. A life that paved the way for the next generation.

Instead, when they finally retire (probably just work until they die) and keep younger people from taking over those jobs, we will hand them a CUP, so they can spend every day of their final years begging. Conservatives would LOVE that...

You shall rise up before the gray-headed and honor the aged, and you shall revere your God; I am the Lord.
Leviticus 19:32

As I said before dickweed, maybe you shouldn't jump to conclusions.

I owe you nothing in the way of an expalantion....nothing at all. You don't deserve it because you are such a arrogant projectionist lemming.

But, I'll let others know that I would never take Social Security away from those who have paid into the system. They paid into and they have a promise of something coming to them.

That does not mean the people entering the workforce today need be strapped with the same thing.

You figure the rest out blowhard.

It is not wonder conservatives can't work with liberals. We'd have an easier time sculpting granite with Q-tips.

 

[Listening]

Yea, THAT is what we need to do. Let's go after the weakest, most fragile and vulnerable people in our society. Let's take away any security and dignity in the final years of their life. A life that paved the way for the next generation.

Instead, when they finally retire (probably just work until they die) and keep younger people from taking over those jobs, we will hand them a CUP, so they can spend every day of their final years begging. Conservatives would LOVE that...

You shall rise up before the gray-headed and honor the aged, and you shall revere your God; I am the Lord.
Leviticus 19:32

So if they have worked their entire life, why exactly would they need Social Security???

Oh that's right, the idiot liberal spends lavishly on vacations, iPad's, iPhones, and other gadgets, then expect hard working conservatives to provide for them for the rest of their lives. If you have worked your entire life, you have ZERO excuse for not having the money set aside for your own retirement.

Hey doggy breath, those people PAID INTO Social Security their whole working lives. It is social insurance, not a handout. Social Security assures a minimum quality of life for older Americans.

Thank you for exhibiting your ignorant stereotyping. Only liberals spend lavishly on vacations, iPad's, iPhones, and other gadgets. Only liberals have abortions. Only liberals are on welfare. Only liberals receive food stamps.

Ironically, it is the RED states that suck the most federal money.

The conservative movement's favorite philosopher Ayn Rand's novels divided the world into two groups. On one hand, she lionized "producers" -- noble, intelligent Übermenschen whose faith in their own ideas and willingness to take risks to achieve their dreams drives everything else in society. And she called out the evil of "parasites," the dull, unimaginative masses who attach themselves to producers and drain away their resources and thwart their dreams.

Conservatives love this story. They're eager to claim the gleaming mantle of the producers, insisting loudly that their tax money is going to support people (mostly in blue states and cities, it's darkly implied) who won't or can't work as hard as they do. If you want to arouse their class and race resentments, there are few narratives that can get them rolling like this producers-versus-parasites tale.

But the conservative interpretation of events is 100 percent, 180-degrees, flat-out wrong. America's real producer class is overwhelmingly concentrated in the blue cities and states -- the regions full of smart, talented people who've harnessed technology and intellect to money, and made these regions the best, most forward-looking places in the country to live.

And the real parasites are centered in red states (the only exceptions being states with huge resource reserves, like Alaska and Texas) -- the unimaginative, exhausted places that have clung to a fading past, rejected science, substituted superstition for sense, and refused to invest in their own futures. It's not unfair to say that those regions are simply feasting off the sweat of our ennobling labor, and expecting us to continue supporting them as they go about their wealth-destroying ways.

And we producers have had enough.

More dogs**t from the chief dogs**ter. A great many of those red states (the biggest sucks on the public tit) used to be blue states (i.e. Alabama, South Carolina, Mississippi, Lousiana) They are getting better but old habits die hard.

How long do we have to deal with you horsehockey ?



http://super-economy.blogspot.com/2012/02/do-welfare-recipients-mostly-vote.html

 

[Listening]

But the conservative interpretation of events is 100 percent, 180-degrees, flat-out wrong. America's real producer class is overwhelmingly concentrated in the blue cities and states -- the regions full of smart, talented people who've harnessed technology and intellect to money, and made these regions the best, most forward-looking places in the country to live.

You mean like Chicago and New York and Los Angeles ?

Oh yeah, Detroit....there's another blue stronghold. Great place to live (how is it this easy ?).

You can keep them and all those smart people that go with them.

 

[Listening]

I was on a plane home thursday night, and I sat next to a guy who's a salesman for some big trucking company. He said business for his company was booming because all the little guys are bailing. They just can't handle the cost of dealing with all of the new regulations the Obama administration has imposed on them. He said a company needs a corporate sized financial department to deal with all the government red tape, even if they only have three trucks.

That's why this recovery is so anemic. Obama is driving all the small business owners out of business.

b-b-but that's capitalism right? You like Walmart and McDonalds, right?

Why don't you take Harry Ried's dick out of your mouth before you try putting words in ours.

Wal-Mart and McDonald's have gotten great leverage out of Uncle Sam and local governments. They are not my idea of a good time. I have to be really hungry with no other options before I'll even think of a Big Mac.

 

[Oddball]

Yea, THAT is what we need to do. Let's go after the weakest, most fragile and vulnerable people in our society. Let's take away any security and dignity in the final years of their life. A life that paved the way for the next generation.

Instead, when they finally retire (probably just work until they die) and keep younger people from taking over those jobs, we will hand them a CUP, so they can spend every day of their final years begging. Conservatives would LOVE that...

You shall rise up before the gray-headed and honor the aged, and you shall revere your God; I am the Lord.
Leviticus 19:32

So if they have worked their entire life, why exactly would they need Social Security???

Oh that's right, the idiot liberal spends lavishly on vacations, iPad's, iPhones, and other gadgets, then expect hard working conservatives to provide for them for the rest of their lives. If you have worked your entire life, you have ZERO excuse for not having the money set aside for your own retirement.

Hey doggy breath, those people PAID INTO Social Security their whole working lives. It is social insurance, not a handout. Social Security assures a minimum quality of life for older Americans.

Thank you for exhibiting your ignorant stereotyping. Only liberals spend lavishly on vacations, iPad's, iPhones, and other gadgets. Only liberals have abortions. Only liberals are on welfare. Only liberals receive food stamps.

Ironically, it is the RED states that suck the most federal money.

The conservative movement's favorite philosopher Ayn Rand's novels divided the world into two groups. On one hand, she lionized "producers" -- noble, intelligent Übermenschen whose faith in their own ideas and willingness to take risks to achieve their dreams drives everything else in society. And she called out the evil of "parasites," the dull, unimaginative masses who attach themselves to producers and drain away their resources and thwart their dreams.

Conservatives love this story. They're eager to claim the gleaming mantle of the producers, insisting loudly that their tax money is going to support people (mostly in blue states and cities, it's darkly implied) who won't or can't work as hard as they do. If you want to arouse their class and race resentments, there are few narratives that can get them rolling like this producers-versus-parasites tale.

But the conservative interpretation of events is 100 percent, 180-degrees, flat-out wrong. America's real producer class is overwhelmingly concentrated in the blue cities and states -- the regions full of smart, talented people who've harnessed technology and intellect to money, and made these regions the best, most forward-looking places in the country to live.

And the real parasites are centered in red states (the only exceptions being states with huge resource reserves, like Alaska and Texas) -- the unimaginative, exhausted places that have clung to a fading past, rejected science, substituted superstition for sense, and refused to invest in their own futures. It's not unfair to say that those regions are simply feasting off the sweat of our ennobling labor, and expecting us to continue supporting them as they go about their wealth-destroying ways.

And we producers have had enough.

This lame-assed, brain dead, bullshit argument has been debunked so many times that I'm surprised you aren't embarrassed to try and invoke this lame-assed, brain dead, bullshit argument yet again....Well, not really, seeing as embarrassment doesn't seem to appear anywhere in the emotional repertoire of knee-jerk liberoidal pinheads like you.

Population density (how much do you think it costs, per capita, to maintain a mile of freeway in Montana vs. what it costs in California?) and amount of lands under federal control (you don't think that administration of all those millions of acres of National Forests, National Parks, BLM lands, etcetera, out west come on the cheap, do you?), figure into those fake liberoidal boilerplate statistics as much as anything else.

Seriously...You're not bullshitting anyone with a brain anymore.

 

[saveliberty]

You'd be speaking German if it weren't for Detroit. Probably doing a lot of walking too. LA didn't happen on its own.