Yet ANOTHER shooting

[RetiredGySgt]

Sorry David, this isn't an increase in shootings, it's an increase in coverage only. Media hype and nothing more.

True.

Americans shooting their neighbors and family and committing suicide by police is as American as apple pie and motherhood.

Nothing to see here folks, just another senseless shooting spree.

Just go on about your business and remember to all you have to really worry about is Arab terrorists.

The NRA has killed more Americans than AQ.

Over 1,000,000 since 1960.

Is any lie to far for you to go?

 

[Diuretic]

This is a chicken and egg argument concerning the SSRIs. They treat depression. Some depressives, poor buggers, will have suicidal impulses. However, me not being a medico this is just a lay opinion, sucide and wanting to kill a bunch of people before (perhaps) topping yourself is not about depression alone, there are other issues.

And this is not a recent phenomenon and it doesn't really matter about the state of firearms control laws. Many years ago when I was a young copper a bloke shot to death his entire family and then let himself live. You know why? The ****** felt better after he'd killed them all. Suddenly he didn't want to die. When I was in training the driving instructors used to take us a past a house in the southern rural parts near our capital city to show us cadets the house where a motorcycle copper came home off duty (motorbikes are take home items) and with his service pistol shot his family and himself. And you can look through the law reports to see plenty of incidents where firearms weren't used and before SSRIs were invented.

It's about mental health issues, not about firearms control and not about medications of a particular type.

 

[LiveUninhibited]

Crazy ***** + Bad Economy = Death.

Hell I wouldn’t be surprised if the media coverage actually encouraged other morons to take a few people they dislike with them. Fewer would die if one of the victims could pull out their own boom stick. However, I haven’t seen stats on whether the violent crime level has actually increased since the recession began. It probably has, but not to the extent that the media makes one think.

 

[editec]

For once Eots has got it right. Both the Combine shooters were on Ritalin and a hell of a lot of people are misdiagnosed as depressive these days especially 12 to 18 year old boys. Not every one taking anti depressant is actually depressed and anti depressant are used for a hell of a lot of things other than Depression primarily sleep disorders.

Except Ratalin is NOT remotely an antidepressant.

Methylphenidate[1] (MPH) is the most commonly prescribed psychostimulant and is indicated in the treatment of attention-deficit hyperactivity disorder and narcolepsy, although off-label uses include treating lethargy, depression, neural insult and obesity. In North America it is most commonly known as the brand name Ritalin which is an instant-release racemic mixture, although a variety of brand names, and formulations exist.[2] Methylphenidate is a mild central nervous system stimulant thought to exert its effect by enhancing dopaminergic transmission in the brain.

source

 

[dilloduck]

For once Eots has got it right. Both the Combine shooters were on Ritalin and a hell of a lot of people are misdiagnosed as depressive these days especially 12 to 18 year old boys. Not every one taking anti depressant is actually depressed and anti depressant are used for a hell of a lot of things other than Depression primarily sleep disorders.

Ritalin is not prescribed for depression. You may want to check your facts. But you are right about the over board child industry of claiming normal teenagers are depressed when it is nothing more then how CHILDREN act as they grow up.

But perhaps you could point out how many of the shootings in the last month were carried out by 18 and under offenders?

antidepressants are commonly given along with Ritalin..and all of the school shooters ...mall shooters..combine where all on SSRIs..you have to separate your personal experience a little to see the whole picture...but I See you are doing that..
they are powerful drugs not to be taken lightly..I think we would both agree on...

and of course you can tell us how these offenders would have behaved were they not on any medication at all ?

 

[Agnapostate]

Five dead in apparent murder-suicide | TimesDaily.com | The Times Daily | Florence, AL

Ugh. The crazies have been out in full force as of late. I've said it before and I'll say it again - if more people had less restrictive gun laws and carried concealed guns, people like this would be too chicken shit for fear of getting their brains blown out.

It's time to ease gun laws so more people can protect themselves in an environment like this.

That's somewhat dubious. I've not seen substantive evidence that concealed carry laws due much to crime rates one way or the other, inasmuch as it seems to vary on the municipal and county levels, depending on localfactors. For instance, we could refer to the analysis of Dezhbakhsh and Rubin in The Effect of Concealed Handgun Laws on Crime: Beyond the Dummy Variables. Consider the abstract:

As of 1996, 31 states had adopted right-to-carry concealed handgun laws. The advocates argue these laws have a deterrent effect on crime, while the opponents believe they facilitate crime by increasing gun availability. Although both sides assume that these laws affect behavior, no attempt has yet been made to model such effects using crime theory. Consequently, the reported estimates of such effects lack a theoretical basis; for example, a highly publicized study by Lott and Mustard (1997) inappropriately models the effect of the law through a dummy variable (a binary-valued regressor). We extend the economic model of crime to formulate a theoretical basis for empirical examination of the issue. We show that using a dummy variable leads to misspecification and use an alternative procedure to estimate the effect of concealed handgun laws in 1992 for states which had not yet adopted such laws. Our results show that the expected effect of the law on crime varies across the counties and states and depends on county-specific characteristics. Such effects appear to be much smaller and more mixed than Lott and Mustard suggest, and are not crime-reducing in most cases. We also show that police and private guns are compliments in reducing crime.

Addressing Lott and Mustard is a critical element, in my opinion, inasmuch as they're so frequently referred to.

 

[Old Rocks]

Five dead in apparent murder-suicide | TimesDaily.com | The Times Daily | Florence, AL

Ugh. The crazies have been out in full force as of late. I've said it before and I'll say it again - if more people had less restrictive gun laws and carried concealed guns, people like this would be too chicken shit for fear of getting their brains blown out.

It's time to ease gun laws so more people can protect themselves in an environment like this.

David, it was a murder-suicide. The cretin did not care about his own life. He would have done this in spite of other people with guns.

The question is did he give indictations of this kind of mental imbalance? And, if so, was there any kind of intervention done? What about his possesion of the gun if he had shown signs of significant mental instability?

In all too many of the murderous rampages we have seen in the last month, the shooter had shown signs of being significantly mentally disturbed. And when they went on the rampage, had no intention of coming out of it alive. It all most seems that they are making some kind of statement as to how they feel about the value of their own lives through the murder of other innocent people.

 

[Old Rocks]

Sorry David, this isn't an increase in shootings, it's an increase in coverage only. Media hype and nothing more.

Crock of shit, Kitten. There has been a tremedous increase of this kind of insanity in my lifetime. I remember the Texas Tower shooting, and the kind of coverage it got. Would get much less coverage today, because in another week there would be another shooter pushing that story off the front page.

 

[Old Rocks]

takes one to know one....

its just the facts check out all the shooter from combine on.. it is even on the prescription labeling now thanks to intelligence determined and conscientious individuals such as myself

.....caution can cause suicidal or violent thoughts...

but then reality and facts are not really your thing....




The overwhelming popularity of SSRIs (selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors) was in part due to their apparent "safety" over more toxic drugs when used improperly. Some of the Tricyclics are extremely toxic in overdose, such as Dothiepin, Amitriptyline and Imiprimine.



However, in addition to other dangers, there is also an established direct link between suicide and violent behaviour and the use of SSRIs. (1)



Actually, all the effects, even the desired effects, can be considered a side effect of taking a pill. The reason there are so many side effects with antidepressants, is really due to the lack of full understanding about how antidepressants, and depression, affect the brain.


Side Effects of Antidepressants | Clinical-Depression.co.uk

Let us see, people prescribed anti depressants are universally DEPRESSED and most are suicidal. SO go figure people on anti depressants might commit suicide.

Next you will be telling us people taking drugs and treatments for cancer die of.... Cancer.


Most people that act out that are on anti depressants do so for one of 2 reasons. One they quit taking the medication or two the right drug and dose was not found before they acted out.

It is a fact that most people that take these medications do NOT like taking them, especially the really sick ones. And then there is the thought pattern that happens after the meds work well, you start thinking your better so you do not need the meds anymore, so you QUIT taking them.

Your personal attempts to deny sick people effective treatment is absolutely ignorant.

Ohh there is also another danger with anti depressants, when a person is very low they may not be able to act on their suicidal thoughts from lack of motivation and energy. As the meds work there is a window in there were they have gotten well enough to act on suicidal thoughts but not well enough to stop having those thoughts.

You see dumb ass, the meds do not work over night. They work over TIME. And they require a continues dose DAILY. They do not stay long in your system.

Generally it can take up to 6 weeks to get an effective result and since the doctor has to evaluate you he is constantly making adjustments to the medication level.

The real problem is Insurance does not like paying for mental disorders and so most people can not afford to see the doctor enough as time passes, especially those critical first weeks. And they sure as hell do not like to pay for hospital stays for Mental issues. Standard is 4 to 6 days and the insurance if it pays wants you released and won't continue paying. So even if you admit yourself insurance can and does force you out before you are ready in most cases.

Doctors would prefer in the real bad cases to hospitalize the patient for several weeks to get a handle on what is working and what changes medically need to happen.

OK, RGS, you have began to address the problem. Were you to do more of this, instead of immediatly aggressing anyone that states there is a problem, those of us that are gun owners, but do see what our image is to most people when this sort of insanity becomes an almost daily occurance, we might be able to put a stop to this.

What you are saying is that if people with mental problems had access to real, non-judgemental, health care, we could nip a lot of this in the bud. On that I agree with you.

Now, how do we make sure such services are available to all in this nation that need it?

 

[editec]

Sorry David, this isn't an increase in shootings, it's an increase in coverage only. Media hype and nothing more.

Crock of shit, Kitten. There has been a tremedous increase of this kind of insanity in my lifetime. I remember the Texas Tower shooting, and the kind of coverage it got. Would get much less coverage today, because in another week there would be another shooter pushing that story off the front page.

Yeah, I'm inclined to agree with that.

I'd like to see a statistical study to establish if such episodes of gun crazy rampages are increaseing, though, to finally put this question to rest.

Certainly KK's argument that our media covers what are basically local news programs, and that that coverage might be distorting our perception of how our society might be changing is not without merit, either.

So here's the question...

Statistically, has the incidence of gun crazy shooters increased over time?

I think it has, but as KK quite correctly points out, our perception might be distorted by the media's coverage of this basically LOCAL news coverage going national, too.

 

[KittenKoder]

Sorry David, this isn't an increase in shootings, it's an increase in coverage only. Media hype and nothing more.

Crock of shit, Kitten. There has been a tremedous increase of this kind of insanity in my lifetime. I remember the Texas Tower shooting, and the kind of coverage it got. Would get much less coverage today, because in another week there would be another shooter pushing that story off the front page.

Yeah, I'm inclined to agree with that.

I'd like to see a statistical study to establish if such episodes of gun crazy rampages are increaseing, though, to finally put this question to rest.

Certainly KK's argument that our media covers what are basically local news programs, and that that coverage might be distorting our perception of how our society might be changing is not without merit, either.

So here's the question...

Statistically, has the incidence of gun crazy shooters increased over time?

I think it has, but as KK quite correctly points out, our perception might be distorted by the media's coverage of this basically LOCAL news coverage going national, too.

Actually, I did post the stats gathered by the government to support what I said in another thread, gun crime has declined during the last decades, with slight increases now and then matching the political mood of the country. While media coverage has only recently increased because of better communications capabilities and well, hype.

 

[raceright]

Lots of the following has been known for a long time, but the update from Australia is interesting. The Switzerland info really nails things down and it has been that way there for decades.





A LITTLE GUN HISTORY

In 1929, the Soviet Union established gun control. From 1929 to 1953, about 20 million dissidents, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.
------------------------------

In 1911, Turkey established gun control. From 1915 to 1917, 1.5 Million Armenians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.
------------------------------

Germany established gun control in 1938 and from 1939 to 1945, a total of 13 million Jews and others who were unable to defend themselves were rounded up and exterminated.
------------------------------

China established gun control in 1935. From 1948 to 1952, 20 million political dissidents, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated
------------------------------

Guatemala established gun control in 1964. From 1964 to 1981, 100,000 Mayan Indians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.
---- ------------- -------------

Uganda established gun control in 1970. From 1971 to 1979, 300,000 Christians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.
------------------------------

Cambodia established gun control in 1956. From 1975 to 1977, one million educated people, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.
-----------------------------

Defenseless people rounded up and exterminated in the 20th Century after gun control was established: 56 million.
------------------------------

It has now been 12 months since gun owners in Australia were forced by new law to surrender 640,381 personal firearms to be destroyed by their own Government, a program costing Australia taxpayers more than $500 million dollars. The first year results are now in:

List of 7 items:

Australia-wide, homicides are up 3.2 percent.

Australia-wide, assaults are up 8.6 percent.

Australia-wide, armed robberies are up 44 percent (yes, 44 percent)!

In the state of Victoria alone, homicides with firearms are now up 300 percent. Note that while the law-abiding citizens turned them in, the criminals did not, and criminals still possess their guns!

While figures over the previous 25 years showed a steady decrease in armed robbery with firearms, this has changed drastically upward in the past 12 months, since criminals now are guaranteed that their prey is unarmed.

There has also been a dramatic increase in break-ins and assaults of the ELDERLY. Australian politicians are at a loss to explain how public safety has decreased, after such monumental effort, and expense was expended in successfully ridding Australian society of guns. The Australian experience and the other historical facts above prove it.

You won't see this data on the US evening news, or hear politicians disseminating this information.

Guns in the hands of honest citizens save lives and property and, yes, gun-control laws adversely affect only the law-abiding citizens.

Take note my fellow Americans, before it's too late!

The next time someone talks in favor of gun control, please remind them of this history lesson.

With guns, we are 'citizens'. Without them, we are 'subjects'.

During WWII , one reason the Japanese decided not to invade America because they knew most Americans were ARMED!

If you value your freedom, please spread this anti-gun control message to all of your friends.


The purpose of fighting is to win. There is no possible victory in defense. The sword is more important than the shield, and skill is more important than either. The final weapon is the brain. All else is supplemental.
SWITZERLAND ISSUES EVERY HOUSEHOLD A GUN! SWITZERLAND 'S GOVERNMENT TRAINS EVERY ADULT THEY ISSUE A RIFLE.
SWITZERLAND HAS THE LOWEST GUN RELATED CRIME RATE OF ANY CIVILIZED COUNTRY IN THE WORLD!!!
IT'S A NO BRAINER! DON'T LET OUR GOVERNMENT WASTE MILLIONS OF OUR TAX DOLLARS IN AN EFFORT TO MAKE ALL LAW ABIDING CITIZENS AN EASY TARGET.

I'm a firm believer of the 2nd Amendment!
If you are too, please forward.

 

[Diuretic]

The usual misleading propaganda about Australia yet again.

It's complete bullshit peddled for years on the net.

 

[Indiana Oracle]

Sorry David, this isn't an increase in shootings, it's an increase in coverage only. Media hype and nothing more.

Agree.

 

[raceright]

The usual misleading propaganda about Australia yet again.

It's complete bullshit peddled for years on the net.

What you only know about Australia,,so every else is accurate. What about Swizerland

 

[PubliusInfinitum]

Five dead in apparent murder-suicide | TimesDaily.com | The Times Daily | Florence, AL

Ugh. The crazies have been out in full force as of late. I've said it before and I'll say it again - if more people had less restrictive gun laws and carried concealed guns, people like this would be too chicken shit for fear of getting their brains blown out.

It's time to ease gun laws so more people can protect themselves in an environment like this.

Well sure... Same thing happened at the onset of the Clinton regime... It's not that anymore people were going nuts with guns... it's just that every nut that goes off, gets national headlines; with CNN and rest of the Leftist disinformation media running to demonstrate the CRISIS which our nation faces and the desperate need to RUSH THROUGH 'REASONABLE REGULATIONS ON GUNS!'

 

[raceright]

Five dead in apparent murder-suicide | TimesDaily.com | The Times Daily | Florence, AL

Ugh. The crazies have been out in full force as of late. I've said it before and I'll say it again - if more people had less restrictive gun laws and carried concealed guns, people like this would be too chicken shit for fear of getting their brains blown out.

It's time to ease gun laws so more people can protect themselves in an environment like this.

Well sure... Same thing happened at the onset of the Clinton regime... It's not that anymore people were going nuts with guns... it's just that every nut that goes off, gets national headlines; with CNN and rest of the Leftist disinformation media running to demonstrate the CRISIS which our nation faces and the desperate need to RUSH THROUGH 'REASONABLE REGULATIONS ON GUNS!'

Guns are American peoples one right that if messed with is very risky for Poloticians..Gore campaigned against Guns and after a beloved presidency like Clinton seemed a shoe in, many believe his gun stance destroyed him.
If Obama goes after guns his chances for reelection might be damaged beyond repair. Cities are mostly anti Gun and if you have ever been in Chuckie Cheese Schummers district ,My God those Animals in the Bronx should not only not be allowed to have guns,they should also not be allowed to have butter knifes.(and be only allowed out with guards)

 

[PubliusInfinitum]

The usual misleading propaganda about Australia yet again.

It's complete bullshit peddled for years on the net.

Yet another advocate of tyranny running to defend the indefensible... they're a danger to themselves and the culture at large.

 

[Diuretic]

The usual misleading propaganda about Australia yet again.

It's complete bullshit peddled for years on the net.

What you only know about Australia,,so every else is accurate. What about Swizerland

Switzerland, Swaziland - I don't care. I can only tell you what I know and I know the stuff about Australia is rubbish.

 

[Chris]

True.

Americans shooting their neighbors and family and committing suicide by police is as American as apple pie and motherhood.

Nothing to see here folks, just another senseless shooting spree.

Just go on about your business and remember to all you have to really worry about is Arab terrorists.

The NRA has killed more Americans than AQ.

Over 1,000,000 since 1960.

Is any lie to far for you to go?

Is there any truth you are willing to admit?