YES, America CERTAINLY WAS FOUNDED as a CHRISTIAN NATION...

[UltimateReality]

UR is trying to create fraudulent myths here about Christianity, the beginning of our nation, and what Christians in America are today. Holli et al have easily refuted his nonsense.

Maybe in your daydreams, Mr. Jakey "Strawman" Starkey.

 

[UltimateReality]

Your disgrace your profession when you try subtly ad homing ofthers than whine when you get beat down for it. Stop it, now.

UR was a police officer. Heavens help the citizens.

Yep, decorated too, without a single blemish on my perfect record. Any more Ad Hominem attacks you would like to bring while you are at it.

What is your profession? Being 30 and living at home with your parents playing video games?

Don't think for one second you know me little man. Or try to disgrace an exemplary career I had in law enforcement.

 

[bodecea]

Even though Jews and Christians and Muslims are all children of Abraham, the Bible is not our law.

So do not kill and do not bear false witness are not part of our tradition?

Are you saying that "do not kill" and "do not bear false witness" can only be found with a christian source?

 

[UltimateReality]

And I too see your error of misunderstanding, confusing the word Church and it's 17th and 18th Century connotation in America with the word Religion.

I see your basic error of misunderstanding, UR.

You are trying to say that religious and secular opinion and ethics inform our government and its laws.

Yes, that is true. Christians, deists, agnostics, Native American spiritualists, so forth and so on all have influenced our law making.

James Madison on separation of church/state:

The civil Government, though bereft of everything like an associated hierarchy, possesses the requisite stability, and performs its functions with complete success, whilst the number, the industry, and the morality of the priesthood, and the devotion of the people, have been manifestly increased by the total separation of the church from the State (Letter to Robert Walsh, Mar. 2, 1819).

Strongly guarded as is the separation between religion and & Gov't in the Constitution of the United States the danger of encroachment by Ecclesiastical Bodies, may be illustrated by precedents already furnished in their short history (Detached Memoranda, circa 1820).

Every new and successful example, therefore, of a perfect separation between the ecclesiastical and civil matters, is of importance; and I have no doubt that every new example will succeed, as every past one has done, in showing that religion and Government will both exist in greater purity the less they are mixed together (Letter to Edward Livingston, July 10, 1822).

Congress should not establish a religion and enforce the legal observation of it by law, nor compel men to worship God in any manner contary to their conscience, or that one sect might obtain a pre-eminence, or two combined together, and establish a religion to which they would compel others to conform (Annals of Congress, Sat Aug 15th, 1789 pages 730 - 731).

p.s. James Madison and Thomas Jefferson were heavily involved in creating the constitution.

Again you miss the differentiation between what a Church was at the time and Religion. You can not plug in Separation of Religion and State and have it make any sense with the mountain of evidence showing references to God in government.

 

[bodecea]

Your disgrace your profession when you try subtly ad homing ofthers than whine when you get beat down for it. Stop it, now.

Yep, decorated too, without a single blemish on my perfect record. Any more Ad Hominem attacks you would like to bring while you are at it.

What is your profession? Being 30 and living at home with your parents playing video games?

Don't think for one second you know me little man. Or try to disgrace an exemplary career I had in law enforcement.

Oh dear...did you apply the bible in your career?

 

[JakeStarkey]

UR can live in his little Barton fantasy world, but grown up traditionally religious American does not. We are quite comfortable knowing that the Constitution was written by Christians, Deists, and agnostics. The law of America has evolved since then with dozens of different religious and secular strains.

Washington et al would turn the collective back on the interps of the URs and Bartonites of today.

Let's look at the little post that started this whole legal discussion. Now can anyone count how many strawmen were erected in response? Last post said I claimed our legal system is based on the Bible. This is a fact not disputed by any attorney or historian. However, no where is this thread was the claim made it was exclusively on the Bible, which is the main strawmen that started crawling out of the ground like zombies. So many posters bring so much of a constrained worldview to this thread, they think they know what is being said before it is being said.

Seriously? Our legal standard was based in Christianity. Why would I expect you to know this since you and others here are bent on rewriting history. However, if you would like to educate yourself, you can study these links. If not, remain in your ignorance. Please just don't pretend you know what you are talking about when trying to put down others. The Blackstone was used as the basic law book up until the mid to late 1800's, when it was replaced by Darwin followers at Harvard, who viewed the law as not absolute, but evolving. The basic theme of he Blackstone is "does the law we seek conform to the Bible?".

William Blackstone - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

http://constitution.org/18th/ale1762/ale1762_001-050.pdf

 

[UltimateReality]

Your disgrace your profession when you try subtly ad homing ofthers than whine when you get beat down for it. Stop it, now.

So mature. And so bossy for someone hiding behind their keyboard. Why don't you post up a link to your Facebook account so you can friend me, and then we can dispense with the anonymous enabling internet courage thing. Or you can just pm me with it if you don't want everyone knowing who you really are.

 

[JakeStarkey]

And the Hindu and the Buddhist and the atheist and the agnostic.

Go study the frieze on the building of SCOTUS and till us who the luminaries, along with Moses, are illustrated there.

You don't get the difference between religious influence and organized religion.

That is why church and state have been separated from the beginning of our country nationally and in the states since the 1830s.

The so-called "christian" dominion movement is satanic, not authentically Christian.

Even though Jews and Christians and Muslims are all children of Abraham, the Bible is not our law.

So do not kill and do not bear false witness are not part of our tradition?

 

[JakeStarkey]

Yes, the UR strawmmen are set on fire without any problem.

UR is trying to create fraudulent myths here about Christianity, the beginning of our nation, and what Christians in America are today. Holli et al have easily refuted his nonsense.

Maybe in your daydreams, Mr. Jakey "Strawman" Starkey.

 

[JakeStarkey]

I am quite older than you, 12 years active of duty in the infantry and airborne, several years with what is now citigroup, a businessman, earned several graduate degrees, active in school board, community organizations, and my church.

What about you?

Your disgrace your profession when you try subtly ad homing ofthers than whine when you get beat down for it. Stop it, now.

Yep, decorated too, without a single blemish on my perfect record. Any more Ad Hominem attacks you would like to bring while you are at it.

What is your profession? Being 30 and living at home with your parents playing video games?

Don't think for one second you know me little man. Or try to disgrace an exemplary career I had in law enforcement.

 

[UltimateReality]

Look, ma, I can post at the top too. Ah yes, so now we see where your liberal views will take us. In your relativistic world, eventually honor killings will be fine in certain communities in America. Any way the wind blows, right?

Deflection.

However, within our code, citizens can agree to arbitration based on certain standards, whether bishop's courts or shar'ia contract, as long as that does conflict with statutory or constitutional restraint of such.

Show us where in the Constitution that the law was based on the Bible.

Our law is based on Greco-Roman law and Jewish-Christian culture, not on religious texts.

This is what I am saying. Sharia is not part of that tradition.

 

[JakeStarkey]

UR! Stop!! Look at me!!! Look me in the eye. Do you understand "religious", "religious influence", "church", and "organized religion"?

Do not use them interchangeability. Look them up if you don't understand them.

Now stay focused!

And I too see your error of misunderstanding, confusing the word Church and it's 17th and 18th Century connotation in America with the word Religion.

I see your basic error of misunderstanding, UR.

You are trying to say that religious and secular opinion and ethics inform our government and its laws.

Yes, that is true. Christians, deists, agnostics, Native American spiritualists, so forth and so on all have influenced our law making.

Again you miss the differentiation between what a Church was at the time and Religion. You can not plug in Separation of Religion and State and have it make any sense with the mountain of evidence showing references to God in government.

 

[UltimateReality]

You are a disgrace to the United States military and the others who have served.

I am quite older than you, 12 years active of duty in the infantry and airborne, several years with what is now citigroup, a businessman, earned several graduate degrees, active in school board, community organizations, and my church.

What about you?

Your disgrace your profession when you try subtly ad homing ofthers than whine when you get beat down for it. Stop it, now.

What is your profession? Being 30 and living at home with your parents playing video games?

Don't think for one second you know me little man. Or try to disgrace an exemplary career I had in law enforcement.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Don't dish what you can't take, whiner.

You will be batoned down here when you act out.

Your disgrace your profession when you try subtly ad homing ofthers than whine when you get beat down for it. Stop it, now.

So mature. And so bossy for someone hiding behind their keyboard. Why don't you post up a link to your Facebook account so you can friend me, and then we can dispense with the anonymous enabling internet courage thing. Or you can just pm me with it if you don't want everyone knowing who you really are.

 

[UltimateReality]

Wow, repeat back to me what I just said to you. Now that's a new one.

UR! Stop!! Look at me!!! Look me in the eye. Do you understand "religious", "religious influence", "church", and "organized religion"?

Do not use them interchangeability. Look them up if you don't understand them.

Now stay focused!

And I too see your error of misunderstanding, confusing the word Church and it's 17th and 18th Century connotation in America with the word Religion.

I see your basic error of misunderstanding, UR.

You are trying to say that religious and secular opinion and ethics inform our government and its laws.

Yes, that is true. Christians, deists, agnostics, Native American spiritualists, so forth and so on all have influenced our law making.

 

[UltimateReality]

I will await your PM internet tough guy.

Your comment about the baton reminds me of a line from the movie The Untouchables, something about bringing a knife to a gunfight.

Don't dish what you can't take, whiner.

You will be batoned down here when you act out.

Your disgrace your profession when you try subtly ad homing ofthers than whine when you get beat down for it. Stop it, now.

So mature. And so bossy for someone hiding behind their keyboard. Why don't you post up a link to your Facebook account so you can friend me, and then we can dispense with the anonymous enabling internet courage thing. Or you can just pm me with it if you don't want everyone knowing who you really are.

 

[JakeStarkey]

You are the inflexible extremist reactionary, no rational conservative, no mature Christian.

You mistake your "feelings" with what really happened.

You need to grow spiritually.

I am Republican, have been chair of the county and regional organization, and while we want your vote, we don't want your type making policy.

Look, ma, I can post at the top too. Ah yes, so now we see where your liberal views will take us. In your relativistic world, eventually honor killings will be fine in certain communities in America. Any way the wind blows, right?

Deflection.

However, within our code, citizens can agree to arbitration based on certain standards, whether bishop's courts or shar'ia contract, as long as that does conflict with statutory or constitutional restraint of such.

This is what I am saying. Sharia is not part of that tradition.

 

[JakeStarkey]

How would you know? You would think I would disgrace my medals, skill badges, certifications, schools, and other awards to forward a false concept of what is our wonderful country.

You asked me. I told you. Who cares if you like or dislike it.

Step off.

You are a disgrace to the United States military and the others who have served.

I am quite older than you, 12 years active of duty in the infantry and airborne, several years with what is now citigroup, a businessman, earned several graduate degrees, active in school board, community organizations, and my church.

What about you?

What is your profession? Being 30 and living at home with your parents playing video games?

Don't think for one second you know me little man. Or try to disgrace an exemplary career I had in law enforcement.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Go back and read your participation in the thread.

Read everyone else.

Get out your dictionary and read.

Act polite, and you will get it in return.

And your little threats? Pssh.

Wow, repeat back to me what I just said to you. Now that's a new one.

UR! Stop!! Look at me!!! Look me in the eye. Do you understand "religious", "religious influence", "church", and "organized religion"?

Do not use them interchangeability. Look them up if you don't understand them.

Now stay focused!

And I too see your error of misunderstanding, confusing the word Church and it's 17th and 18th Century connotation in America with the word Religion.

 

[JakeStarkey]

You subtly tried to intimidate, and I called you on it.

Tuff. I will baton you down here when you do it.

Other words, don't threaten others if you can't take the result.

I will await your PM internet tough guy.

Your comment about the baton reminds me of a line from the movie The Untouchables, something about bringing a knife to a gunfight.

Don't dish what you can't take, whiner.

You will be batoned down here when you act out.

So mature. And so bossy for someone hiding behind their keyboard. Why don't you post up a link to your Facebook account so you can friend me, and then we can dispense with the anonymous enabling internet courage thing. Or you can just pm me with it if you don't want everyone knowing who you really are.