Ya think the Russians haven't calculated we have a weak paper-tiger for president?

[Roudy]

Yeah okay brain dead, whatever you say. Russia would be violating European NATO members' airspaces so blatantly regardless of whether we have a president perceived as weak by the international community. What a friggin idiot.

Yes, that is correct.

And we know this because Sweden is not actually a member of NATO, of course - hence, their seaspace has nothing whatsoever to do with the US in anyway.

Again, Russia is flexes its muscles because it thinks it can get away with it. And that's because we have a paper tiger in the White House.

 

[Camp]

Sonc -

I have been to Kyev twice, and have also been to Odessa and Transnistria. I have not been to the Crimea.

I am aware of Ukrainian history - particularly the great famine of the 1930's, when Stalin tried to starve the Ukrainian people to death.

What this has to do with Russian troops/militants shooting down passenger planes or invading the Ukarine, I have no idea.

It is simply a fact that Russia has effectively annexed the Crimea, and is now occupying Eastern Ukraine.

Yeah so? And Russia would never be behaving so belligerently if we didn't have a weak presidency. That is an obvious fact, that does not require "travel to Kiev".

Are you saying Russia invaded Georgia when G W was President because they thought he was a weak paper tiger?

 

[orogenicman]

Oh, you mean where we less than 6% unemployment, massive stock market advances, dropping oil and gas prices, and the lowest deficit in years? That economic mess? Give me a break.

Your superficial view of the economy is what causes the economic mess. You fail to address the real issues .... the number of people without jobs who have given up looking and thus, create a massive draw on those who do produce, the lack of substantive and real growth in the business community (as opposed to the manipulation of the stock market), the fact that we have, increasingly, had to depend on borrowed money to sustain ourselves, and overall loss of spending power by the citizenry.

You talk about lower oil and gas prices, and try to intimate that is the result of our government. Isn't it more truthful to say that this has happened DESPITE our government? It has been private development on private lands - something the government has prevented on public lands and has TRIED to stop on private lands - that has resulted in the lowering prices.

Lowest deficit in years is, frankly, a joke ... we should be proud that we are going bankrupt slower than we did last year? What kind of perverted logic is that? That is just a panacea to keep you misdirected from reality. Then, to add insult to injury, when you look at the deficit, you allow yourself to be bamboozled. You willingly drink from the fount of misinformation, not because you are intentionally misled, but because you WANT to be misled.

The deficit in 2008 was $458 billion - in 2009, it increased to $1.4 trillion, and has $1.2 trillion in 2010 and 2011, dropped all the way to $1 trillion in 2012 (notice this is an election year?), and $680 billion in 2013. Now, in 2014, it is projected to be about $480 billion, and to rise to $540 billion in 2015. US Federal Deficit Definition - plus charts and analysis

That means, in the past 6 years, we have spent about $8 trillion more than we took in ... and THIS is something you're proud of? Hardly an indicator of a robust economy and a facile government, wouldn't you say?

Wake up and look at the facts!!!

Your superficial view of the economy is what causes the economic mess.

So now it is my fault? That's hilarious. You 'pubicans' will blame everyone and everything but yourselves. Amazing,

It is the apparent unwillingness of the ignorant to expend the effort necessary to become conversant about our economy that is the problem. You accept the government pablum, unwilling to admit that it is in their interests to keep you unaware.

The government position on our economy doesn't pass the reality test ...

So now it is the fault of people who don't know anything or care anything about the economy (as opposed to those who do and have a long history of trashing it for self-gain) is it?

Let's try to be more accurate ... twisting words serves no purpose.

I said it is "... the fault of people who don't know anything or care anything ..." about the government that are directly contributory to the state of our economy. You were charged with the responsibility of monitoring the actions/programs of the government, and you abdicated your responsibility, allowing the government to use the economy as tool to keep you entrenched.

When I quoted you verbatim "Your superficial view of the economy is what causes the economic mess" I was being as accurate as anyone can be. Care to rephrase your bullshit claim(s)?

 

[Roudy]

Sonc -

I have been to Kyev twice, and have also been to Odessa and Transnistria. I have not been to the Crimea.

I am aware of Ukrainian history - particularly the great famine of the 1930's, when Stalin tried to starve the Ukrainian people to death.

What this has to do with Russian troops/militants shooting down passenger planes or invading the Ukarine, I have no idea.

It is simply a fact that Russia has effectively annexed the Crimea, and is now occupying Eastern Ukraine.

Yeah so? And Russia would never be behaving so belligerently if we didn't have a weak presidency. That is an obvious fact, that does not require "travel to Kiev".

Are you saying Russia invaded Georgia when G W was President because they thought he was a weak paper tiger?

I am saying it's not one thing, Russians are getting very aggressive on many fronts. Plus, Russia withdrew from Georgia, it has not been annexed as they just did with Crimea. All of America's enemies are on the march. It's going to be a feeding frenzy.

 

[Camp]

Sonc -

I have been to Kyev twice, and have also been to Odessa and Transnistria. I have not been to the Crimea.

I am aware of Ukrainian history - particularly the great famine of the 1930's, when Stalin tried to starve the Ukrainian people to death.

What this has to do with Russian troops/militants shooting down passenger planes or invading the Ukarine, I have no idea.

It is simply a fact that Russia has effectively annexed the Crimea, and is now occupying Eastern Ukraine.

Yeah so? And Russia would never be behaving so belligerently if we didn't have a weak presidency. That is an obvious fact, that does not require "travel to Kiev".

Are you saying Russia invaded Georgia when G W was President because they thought he was a weak paper tiger?

I am saying it's not one thing, Russians are getting very aggressive on many fronts. Plus, Russia withdrew from Georgia, it has not been annexed as they just did with Crimea. All of America's enemies are on the march. It's going to be a feeding frenzy.

Russia didn't just walk away from Georgia empty handed. They took Abkhazia and South Ossetia with them. Small countries with Georgian heritage and language that wanted to be independent autonomous states connected to Georgia, but are now in total control of Russia since the war with Georgia.

 

[Stratford57]

Sonc -

I have been to Kyev twice, and have also been to Odessa and Transnistria. I have not been to the Crimea.

I am aware of Ukrainian history - particularly the great famine of the 1930's, when Stalin tried to starve the Ukrainian people to death.

What this has to do with Russian troops/militants shooting down passenger planes or invading the Ukarine, I have no idea.

It is simply a fact that Russia has effectively annexed the Crimea, and is now occupying Eastern Ukraine.

What a great selection of Bologna... Ukrainian history has been rewritten since Yuschenko became a president and now those crazy Nazis, who are currently ruling Ukraine are rewriting it again.
- In 1930-s there was no Ukrainian history: it was a part of the USSR history and that great famine was all over all the USSR: my grandparents were witness to that.
- It's Ukraine who shot down a passenger plane flying from Israel to Russia in 2001 and there are a lot of things pointing they have done it again in July, 2014.
- Russia did not annexed Crimea: Russia was acting legitimately according to UN Declaration (each nation has a right for self-determination). Crimea had a referendum and over 90% voted for separation from Ukraine and reuniting with its motherland Russia. Those who scream about annexation of Crimea, remember who first recognized Kosovo separation from Serbia?! And it was lot legitimate because there was no referendum about separation.
- Russia is not occupying Ukraine, that's only what your Media wants to make you people believe. The Territorial Army keeps only a small piece of SE (half of self-declared republics in SE). If the Russian army ever came to help them, they would be much more efficient than what we've seen so far. Remember how Russian troops stopped Georgians in 2008 in 3 days, and the Ukrainian conflict has been continuing since May. Besides, OSCE (Europeans) is sitting at the Russian-Ukrainian border and monitoring everything and everybody crossing it, they never reported seeing any Russian troops or tanks crossing the border.
Sonc and I are presenting the truth to those, who are sitting overseas and writing unconfirmed stories about the things they don't really know. And meanwhile Biden comes to Ukraine every other month, seats in the president's chair and guides official Kiev how to kill ethnic Russians there in a more efficient way. Here's a picture of his last visit and on Nov,21 he's coming again.

 

[orogenicman]

Sonc -

I have been to Kyev twice, and have also been to Odessa and Transnistria. I have not been to the Crimea.

I am aware of Ukrainian history - particularly the great famine of the 1930's, when Stalin tried to starve the Ukrainian people to death.

What this has to do with Russian troops/militants shooting down passenger planes or invading the Ukarine, I have no idea.

It is simply a fact that Russia has effectively annexed the Crimea, and is now occupying Eastern Ukraine.

What a great selection of Bologna... Ukrainian history has been rewritten since Yuschenko became a president and now those crazy Nazis, who are currently ruling Ukraine are rewriting it again.
- In 1930-s there was no Ukrainian history: it was a part of the USSR history and that great famine was all over all the USSR: my grandparents were witness to that.
- It's Ukraine who shot down a passenger plane flying from Israel to Russia in 2001 and there are a lot of things pointing they have done it again in July, 2014.
- Russia did not annexed Crimea: according to UN Declaration each nation has a right for self-determination. Crimea had a referendum and over 90% voted for reuniting with its motherland Russia. Those who scream about annexation of Crimea, remember who first recognized Kosovo separation from Serbia?!
- Russia is not occupying Ukraine, that's only what your Media wants to make you people believe. The Territorial Army keeps only a small piece of SE (half of self-declared republics in SE). If the Russian army ever came to help them, they would be much more efficient than what we've seen so far. Remember how Russian troops stopped Georgians in 2008 in 3 days, and the Ukrainian conflict has been continuing since May. Besides, OSCE (Europeans) is sitting at the Russian-Ukrainian border and monitoring everything and everybody crossing it, they never reported seeing any Russian troops or tanks crossing the border.
Sonc and I are presenting the truth to those, who are sitting overseas and writing unconfirmed stories about the things they don't really know. And meanwhile Biden comes to Ukraine every other month, seats in the president's chair and guides official Kiev how to kill ethnic Russians there in a more efficient way. Here's a picture of his last visit and on Nov,21 he's coming again.

The Crimea was not an independent nation. It was recognized by the UN as a part of the Ukraine. And contrary to what you are saying above, it is very rare for any measure to obtain 90% of a popular vote. Considering the fact that many people were put off wrt to their right to vote in that referendum, while others simply refused to participate, anyone with half a brain would call that referendum result suspect.

 

[Stratford57]

The Crimea was not an independent nation. It was recognized by the UN as a part of the Ukraine. And contrary to what you are saying above, it is very rare for any measure to obtain 90% of a popular vote. Considering the fact that many people were put off wrt to their right to vote in that referendum, while others simply refused to participate, anyone with half a brain would call that referendum result suspect.

You may not like referendum in Crimea (judging it from overseas) and how about Kosovo, which separated without any referendum and which the USA immediately recognized it in spite of the fact that Serbians were protesting. Double standards. I'm fascinated with some people in US who are so sure they "know" about everything everywhere. US must be really doing a good job in its informational war on Russia and Eastern Ukraine.

 

[Roudy]

Sonc -

I have been to Kyev twice, and have also been to Odessa and Transnistria. I have not been to the Crimea.

I am aware of Ukrainian history - particularly the great famine of the 1930's, when Stalin tried to starve the Ukrainian people to death.

What this has to do with Russian troops/militants shooting down passenger planes or invading the Ukarine, I have no idea.

It is simply a fact that Russia has effectively annexed the Crimea, and is now occupying Eastern Ukraine.

Yeah so? And Russia would never be behaving so belligerently if we didn't have a weak presidency. That is an obvious fact, that does not require "travel to Kiev".

Are you saying Russia invaded Georgia when G W was President because they thought he was a weak paper tiger?

I am saying it's not one thing, Russians are getting very aggressive on many fronts. Plus, Russia withdrew from Georgia, it has not been annexed as they just did with Crimea. All of America's enemies are on the march. It's going to be a feeding frenzy.

Russia didn't just walk away from Georgia empty handed. They took Abkhazia and South Ossetia with them. Small countries with Georgian heritage and language that wanted to be independent autonomous states connected to Georgia, but are now in total control of Russia since the war with Georgia.

Yeah but they still walked away, didn't they? I don't see the Russians walking away from Crimea, or even hinting at it. Crimea's gone, swallowed up in a few weeks, finito.

In fact, the Russians are now ramping up their aggression. Looks like the sanctions and pressure are working <ha ha> Get over it. Anybody who thinks Putin the KGB chief didn't see sanctions and pressure coming after an invasion and annexation of Crimea, should have their head examined.

 

[Political Junky]

From their moves these days it's obvious that all of our enemies including Russians have realized what kind of president they are dealing with, and are now making their moves. When did our enemies ever dare pull this kind of shit?

Russian bomber patrols to reach Gulf of Mexico

MOSCOW — Russia's long-range bombers will conduct regular patrol missions from the Arctic Ocean to the Caribbean and the Gulf of Mexico, the military said Wednesday, a show of muscle reflecting tensions with the West over Ukraine.

A statement from Defense Minister Sergei Shoigu came as NATO's chief commander accused Moscow of sending new troops and tanks into Ukraine — a claim quickly rejected by Russia.

Shoigu said the tensions with the West over Ukraine would require Russia to also beef up its forces in the Crimea, the Black Sea Peninsula that Russia annexed in March.

He said Russian long-range bombers will conduct flights along Russian borders and over the Arctic Ocean. He added that "in the current situation we have to maintain military presence in the western Atlantic and eastern Pacific, as well as the Caribbean and the Gulf of Mexico."

He said that the increasing pace and duration of flights would require stronger maintenance efforts and relevant directives have been issued to industries.

Russian nuclear-capable strategic bombers were making regular patrols across the Atlantic and the Pacific Oceans during Cold War times, but the post-Soviet money crunch forced the military to cut back. The bomber patrol flights have resumed under President Vladimir Putin's tenure.

The patrols have become even more frequent in recent weeks with NATO reporting a spike in Russian military flights over the Black, Baltic and North seas as well as the Atlantic Ocean.

You should definitely defect to Russia.

 

[Spare_change]

Your superficial view of the economy is what causes the economic mess. You fail to address the real issues .... the number of people without jobs who have given up looking and thus, create a massive draw on those who do produce, the lack of substantive and real growth in the business community (as opposed to the manipulation of the stock market), the fact that we have, increasingly, had to depend on borrowed money to sustain ourselves, and overall loss of spending power by the citizenry.

You talk about lower oil and gas prices, and try to intimate that is the result of our government. Isn't it more truthful to say that this has happened DESPITE our government? It has been private development on private lands - something the government has prevented on public lands and has TRIED to stop on private lands - that has resulted in the lowering prices.

Lowest deficit in years is, frankly, a joke ... we should be proud that we are going bankrupt slower than we did last year? What kind of perverted logic is that? That is just a panacea to keep you misdirected from reality. Then, to add insult to injury, when you look at the deficit, you allow yourself to be bamboozled. You willingly drink from the fount of misinformation, not because you are intentionally misled, but because you WANT to be misled.

The deficit in 2008 was $458 billion - in 2009, it increased to $1.4 trillion, and has $1.2 trillion in 2010 and 2011, dropped all the way to $1 trillion in 2012 (notice this is an election year?), and $680 billion in 2013. Now, in 2014, it is projected to be about $480 billion, and to rise to $540 billion in 2015. US Federal Deficit Definition - plus charts and analysis

That means, in the past 6 years, we have spent about $8 trillion more than we took in ... and THIS is something you're proud of? Hardly an indicator of a robust economy and a facile government, wouldn't you say?

Wake up and look at the facts!!!

Your superficial view of the economy is what causes the economic mess.

So now it is my fault? That's hilarious. You 'pubicans' will blame everyone and everything but yourselves. Amazing,

It is the apparent unwillingness of the ignorant to expend the effort necessary to become conversant about our economy that is the problem. You accept the government pablum, unwilling to admit that it is in their interests to keep you unaware.

The government position on our economy doesn't pass the reality test ...

So now it is the fault of people who don't know anything or care anything about the economy (as opposed to those who do and have a long history of trashing it for self-gain) is it?

Let's try to be more accurate ... twisting words serves no purpose.

I said it is "... the fault of people who don't know anything or care anything ..." about the government that are directly contributory to the state of our economy. You were charged with the responsibility of monitoring the actions/programs of the government, and you abdicated your responsibility, allowing the government to use the economy as tool to keep you entrenched.

When I quoted you verbatim "Your superficial view of the economy is what causes the economic mess" I was being as accurate as anyone can be. Care to rephrase your bullshit claim(s)?

I think I've been explicit ... it is the ignorance of those who are willing to just accept what they are told without investigating the truth of it that allow the government dogs to run unleashed. You have demonstrated, at best, a superficial understanding of the economy, and conveniently ignore those economic metrics that don't support your pre-supposed position.

 

[Roudy]

From their moves these days it's obvious that all of our enemies including Russians have realized what kind of president they are dealing with, and are now making their moves. When did our enemies ever dare pull this kind of shit?

Russian bomber patrols to reach Gulf of Mexico

MOSCOW — Russia's long-range bombers will conduct regular patrol missions from the Arctic Ocean to the Caribbean and the Gulf of Mexico, the military said Wednesday, a show of muscle reflecting tensions with the West over Ukraine.

A statement from Defense Minister Sergei Shoigu came as NATO's chief commander accused Moscow of sending new troops and tanks into Ukraine — a claim quickly rejected by Russia.

Shoigu said the tensions with the West over Ukraine would require Russia to also beef up its forces in the Crimea, the Black Sea Peninsula that Russia annexed in March.

He said Russian long-range bombers will conduct flights along Russian borders and over the Arctic Ocean. He added that "in the current situation we have to maintain military presence in the western Atlantic and eastern Pacific, as well as the Caribbean and the Gulf of Mexico."

He said that the increasing pace and duration of flights would require stronger maintenance efforts and relevant directives have been issued to industries.

Russian nuclear-capable strategic bombers were making regular patrols across the Atlantic and the Pacific Oceans during Cold War times, but the post-Soviet money crunch forced the military to cut back. The bomber patrol flights have resumed under President Vladimir Putin's tenure.

The patrols have become even more frequent in recent weeks with NATO reporting a spike in Russian military flights over the Black, Baltic and North seas as well as the Atlantic Ocean.

You should definitely defect to Russia.

Why would I do that?

 

[Saigon]

Stratord -

There is no one in the world who believes that Ukarine shot down that jet. We all know that it was Russian-backed militants.

Just as we all know hiow Stalin left the Ukrainians to starve in the Great Famine - the one your family apparently witnessed.

 

[Saigon]

Roudy -

Russia left Georgia because they have achieved their targets, which were to destabilize Abkhazia and South Ossetia, destroy any notion of Georgian military competence, and bomb Gori for symbolic purposes.

They had known from Day One that they could achieve those goals without NATO or the EU being willing to respond. It was a calculated risk, and a clever one.

Had Russia actually attempted to seize Tblisi, then it is possible that NATO, the EU or US might have become involved, hence that was never really on the agenda.

It had little to do with Bush or the US, just as what happens in the Ukraine has little to do with Obama or the US.

btw. I was actually in Georgia when these events unfolded, based in Batumi.

 

[Roudy]

Russia is behaving the same way it did when it saw in Carter a weak and confused president, and invaded Afghanistan. Peace through strength.

 

[Saigon]

Roudy -

Russia is behaving the same way that it has for a century, at least. Russia has been an aggressive, expansionist power under every president since FDR, ar least, and one could go back much further.

Was Ike a lame duck president? JFK? Truman?

Was the Soviet Union not agressive and expansionist during their terms in office?

It really is worth reading a bit of history, on this. You might be surprised how similar Putin is to the Russiand leaders who came a century before him.

 

[Roudy]

Roudy -

Russia is behaving the same way that it has for a century, at least. Russia has been an aggressive, expansionist power under every president since FDR, ar least, and one could go back much further.

Was Ike a lame duck president? JFK? Truman?

Was the Soviet Union not agressive and expansionist during their terms in office?

It really is worth reading a bit of history, on this. You might be surprised how similar Putin is to the Russiand leaders who came a century before him.

Nope. Tell me how Gorbachev is similar to Putin.

 

[Saigon]

Roudy -

Try to understand.

No one suggested that EVERY Russian leader for the past century has been an aggressor. But clearly most have been, and many have been when the US had strong, popular leaders.

Think back to Korea, to the Russian invasion of Afghanistan, to Molotov/Ribbentrop, to the Cuba missile crisis.

Did all of these happen because of lame suck presidents in the US?

 

[HUGGY]

All the Russians have to do is calculate the number of traitors and subversives in congress to quantify the weakness in our government.

 

[Roudy]

Roudy -

Try to understand.

No one suggested that EVERY Russian leader for the past century has been an aggressor. But clearly most have been, and many have been when the US had strong, popular leaders.

Think back to Korea, to the Russian invasion of Afghanistan, to Molotov/Ribbentrop, to the Cuba missile crisis.

Did all of these happen because of lame suck presidents in the US?

Yes I remember what a disaster Carter was, the chain of events that occurred during his tragic presidency, including the invasion of Afghanistan and the Iranian hostage crisis. Obama = Jimmy Carter on steroids.