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So I guess we are done here. Besides, the argument that some morally ambiguous things are OK because Jesus never explicitly said anything about them is not something you would ever apply to some of your other pet issues.We are talking about belief and interpretation here. Jesus spoke against vengeance often enough that it is hardly a stretch to apply that injunction to the Law itself. You can cloak the death penalty in the trappings of legal due process and religious acceptance but it is still vengeance. In any case my opposition to the death penalty is not based on Jesus' teachings but rather the old libertarian belief that the state should not have the power to take your life.He was calling the law hypocritical in it's requirement for vengeance. It was the same Hebrew law that he fought against numerous times and that eventually required Jesus be nailed to a cross. Capital punishment is vengeance cloaked in legal respectability. Need I remind you who is the sole owner of vengeance?You said he never spoke out against the death penalty yet he prevented a religiously required stoning just to make a point. Let's see if you even know what that point was.
DERP. . .
Was he speaking out against the death penalty itself? Or was he merely making a point about hypocrites?
Did he speak out against the punishment of the thieves who were being crucified with him?
no.
That's a little worse than someone casting stones at them.
I don't factor religion into my views either.
The Constitution is the law of the land and it allows for the death penalty.
If you don't like it, don't execute anyone.
Sound familiar.
Wyoming State Senator Invokes Jesus Dying to Defend Death Penalty
My question is, should states adopt a law that blocks total idiots from serving in the legislature?
Chick stole part of my argument.
I never express it because I generally loathe mixing religion and politics. However, for those who do like to oppose the death penalty for "religious reasons," I think it is only fair to ask them to consider who the most famous, most innocent person ever to be executed (crucified) was. . . and how prevalent the death penalty was during his time and how he (according to the Bible) never once spoke out against the death penalty, even as it was brought against himself.
Jesus was not understood in his time..
Some things don't change.
We are talking about belief and interpretation here. Jesus spoke against vengeance often enough that it is hardly a stretch to apply that injunction to the Law itself. You can cloak the death penalty in the trappings of legal due process and religious acceptance but it is still vengeance. In any case my opposition to the death penalty is not based on Jesus' teachings but rather the old libertarian belief that the state should not have the power to take your life.He was calling the law hypocritical in it's requirement for vengeance. It was the same Hebrew law that he fought against numerous times and that eventually required Jesus be nailed to a cross. Capital punishment is vengeance cloaked in legal respectability. Need I remind you who is the sole owner of vengeance?You said he never spoke out against the death penalty yet he prevented a religiously required stoning just to make a point. Let's see if you even know what that point was.LOL!
When he said that. . . . who was the only one there that was "without sin?"
DERP. . .
Was he speaking out against the death penalty itself? Or was he merely making a point about hypocrites?
Did he speak out against the punishment of the thieves who were being crucified with him?
no.
That's a little worse than someone casting stones at them.
Wyoming State Senator Invokes Jesus Dying to Defend Death Penalty
My question is, should states adopt a law that blocks total idiots from serving in the legislature?
Chick stole part of my argument.
I never express it because I generally loathe mixing religion and politics. However, for those who do like to oppose the death penalty for "religious reasons," I think it is only fair to ask them to consider who the most famous, most innocent person ever to be executed (crucified) was. . . and how prevalent the death penalty was during his time and how he (according to the Bible) never once spoke out against the death penalty, even as it was brought against himself.
What did Jesus say about abortion?
In a self-defense situation there is usually no question that there is just cause to use force however sometimes even then misunderstandings lead to tragedy. There are far too many people who were condemned and then found to have been railroaded. DNA testing helped expose just how terribly wrong the justice system can be and there is no way to free an innocent person who has already been executed. There is a clear economic and racial bias as well. If it was only used where guilt is a certainty and not only against the poor I would perhaps be more in favor of it.We are talking about belief and interpretation here. Jesus spoke against vengeance often enough that it is hardly a stretch to apply that injunction to the Law itself. You can cloak the death penalty in the trappings of legal due process and religious acceptance but it is still vengeance. In any case my opposition to the death penalty is not based on Jesus' teachings but rather the old libertarian belief that the state should not have the power to take your life.He was calling the law hypocritical in it's requirement for vengeance. It was the same Hebrew law that he fought against numerous times and that eventually required Jesus be nailed to a cross. Capital punishment is vengeance cloaked in legal respectability. Need I remind you who is the sole owner of vengeance?You said he never spoke out against the death penalty yet he prevented a religiously required stoning just to make a point. Let's see if you even know what that point was.
DERP. . .
Was he speaking out against the death penalty itself? Or was he merely making a point about hypocrites?
Did he speak out against the punishment of the thieves who were being crucified with him?
no.
That's a little worse than someone casting stones at them.
You call it vengence. I call it a justified act of (an extension of) self defense.
Do you oppose the use of deadly force, during an act of self defense?
There are far too many people who were condemned and then found to have been railroaded. DNA testing helped expose just how terribly wrong the justice system can be and there is no way to free an innocent person who has already been executed. There is a clear economic and racial bias as well. If it was only used where guilt is a certainty and not only against the poor I would perhaps be more in favor of it.
You want to make this an abortion thread? All threads are abortion threads to you it seems. This place has no shortage of annoying obsessed single issue zealots. Try to rise above.There are far too many people who were condemned and then found to have been railroaded. DNA testing helped expose just how terribly wrong the justice system can be and there is no way to free an innocent person who has already been executed. There is a clear economic and racial bias as well. If it was only used where guilt is a certainty and not only against the poor I would perhaps be more in favor of it.
Talk about hypocrisy and irony.
Man.
Do you have it in spades.
Search Results for Query: Abortion | US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum
You want to make this an abortion thread? All threads are abortion threads to you it seems. This place has no shortage of annoying obsessed single issue zealots. Try to rise above.There are far too many people who were condemned and then found to have been railroaded. DNA testing helped expose just how terribly wrong the justice system can be and there is no way to free an innocent person who has already been executed. There is a clear economic and racial bias as well. If it was only used where guilt is a certainty and not only against the poor I would perhaps be more in favor of it.
Talk about hypocrisy and irony.
Man.
Do you have it in spades.
Search Results for Query: Abortion | US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum
I said earlier that I do not have religious objections to capital punishment. I also said I have my own interpretation of the scriptures. I find no inconsistencies in my opinions because I am not a holier than thou Christian. I do like to argue scripture with right-wing "Christians" who want to mind everyone else's business and see a bunch of people dead..You want to make this an abortion thread? All threads are abortion threads to you it seems. This place has no shortage of annoying obsessed single issue zealots. Try to rise above.There are far too many people who were condemned and then found to have been railroaded. DNA testing helped expose just how terribly wrong the justice system can be and there is no way to free an innocent person who has already been executed. There is a clear economic and racial bias as well. If it was only used where guilt is a certainty and not only against the poor I would perhaps be more in favor of it.
Talk about hypocrisy and irony.
Man.
Do you have it in spades.
Search Results for Query: Abortion | US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum
1. Scroll Back and see. I was not the one who brought the subject of abortion into this thread.
2. I do not want or need another thread on abortion to show your hypocrisy on this. The (linked to) record of your comments speaks for itself.
3. The only thing about you that I am not clear about is how and WHY you believe you can so clearly see that "God" would want you to oppose the executions of convicted criminals. . . But then want you to ignore and defend the slaughter and denial of countless millions of innocent children, at the same time.
I said earlier that I do not have religious objections to capital punishment. I also said I have my own interpretation of the scriptures. I find no inconsistencies in my opinions because I am not a holier than thou Christian. I do like to argue scripture with right-wing "Christians" who want to mind everyone else's business and see a bunch of people dead..You want to make this an abortion thread? All threads are abortion threads to you it seems. This place has no shortage of annoying obsessed single issue zealots. Try to rise above.There are far too many people who were condemned and then found to have been railroaded. DNA testing helped expose just how terribly wrong the justice system can be and there is no way to free an innocent person who has already been executed. There is a clear economic and racial bias as well. If it was only used where guilt is a certainty and not only against the poor I would perhaps be more in favor of it.
Talk about hypocrisy and irony.
Man.
Do you have it in spades.
Search Results for Query: Abortion | US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum
1. Scroll Back and see. I was not the one who brought the subject of abortion into this thread.
2. I do not want or need another thread on abortion to show your hypocrisy on this. The (linked to) record of your comments speaks for itself.
3. The only thing about you that I am not clear about is how and WHY you believe you can so clearly see that "God" would want you to oppose the executions of convicted criminals. . . But then want you to ignore and defend the slaughter and denial of countless millions of innocent children, at the same time.
You didn't get anything. People who think there are only two sides of every argument never do.I said earlier that I do not have religious objections to capital punishment. I also said I have my own interpretation of the scriptures. I find no inconsistencies in my opinions because I am not a holier than thou Christian. I do like to argue scripture with right-wing "Christians" who want to mind everyone else's business and see a bunch of people dead..You want to make this an abortion thread? All threads are abortion threads to you it seems. This place has no shortage of annoying obsessed single issue zealots. Try to rise above.There are far too many people who were condemned and then found to have been railroaded. DNA testing helped expose just how terribly wrong the justice system can be and there is no way to free an innocent person who has already been executed. There is a clear economic and racial bias as well. If it was only used where guilt is a certainty and not only against the poor I would perhaps be more in favor of it.
Talk about hypocrisy and irony.
Man.
Do you have it in spades.
Search Results for Query: Abortion | US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum
1. Scroll Back and see. I was not the one who brought the subject of abortion into this thread.
2. I do not want or need another thread on abortion to show your hypocrisy on this. The (linked to) record of your comments speaks for itself.
3. The only thing about you that I am not clear about is how and WHY you believe you can so clearly see that "God" would want you to oppose the executions of convicted criminals. . . But then want you to ignore and defend the slaughter and denial of countless millions of innocent children, at the same time.
Projections then.
Got it.
You didn't get anything. People who think there are only two sides of every argument never do.I said earlier that I do not have religious objections to capital punishment. I also said I have my own interpretation of the scriptures. I find no inconsistencies in my opinions because I am not a holier than thou Christian. I do like to argue scripture with right-wing "Christians" who want to mind everyone else's business and see a bunch of people dead..You want to make this an abortion thread? All threads are abortion threads to you it seems. This place has no shortage of annoying obsessed single issue zealots. Try to rise above.Talk about hypocrisy and irony.
Man.
Do you have it in spades.
Search Results for Query: Abortion | US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum
1. Scroll Back and see. I was not the one who brought the subject of abortion into this thread.
2. I do not want or need another thread on abortion to show your hypocrisy on this. The (linked to) record of your comments speaks for itself.
3. The only thing about you that I am not clear about is how and WHY you believe you can so clearly see that "God" would want you to oppose the executions of convicted criminals. . . But then want you to ignore and defend the slaughter and denial of countless millions of innocent children, at the same time.
Projections then.
Got it.
Sen. Lynn Hutchings, Jesus & The Death Penalty
Dudley Sharp, 2/17/19
Wyoming Sen. Hutchings is getting some bad feedback because of very poor reporting and little to no understanding of very well known, 2000 year old, solid Christian teachings.
Sadly, many folks just like to pile on, with zero effort at understanding the perspectives of others.
Sen. Hutchings' thoughts follow a well traveled line of accepted biblical teachings.
Let's start with bad reporting, again.
Hutchings never equated the Passion of the Christ to the execution of murderers or used it as the reason to execute murderers. One reporter, simply, made that up as a bit of egregious editorializing and others ran with it.
Left out of all reporting, of course, but quite clear in the 2/14/19 Wyoming Senate recording, was Sen. Hutchings consideration of the death penalty in the context of some of our worst mass shootings.
All of the reporters at the hearing heard that and, as far as I have been able to tell, none reported that. Pretty bad but, I guess, a very unfortunate sign of the times.
Her only religious quote at the hearing, was this:
“
Basic, accepted Christian teaching, for 2000 years, as detailed, below, and as, sadly, not so identified by reporting or by the standard internet lynch mob.
Then we have, obvious, false testimony by Sen. Boner, completely, unmentioned in the media. Journalism.
Moving on . . .
Biblical realities, as well known by Sen. Hutchings and, likely by many with any basic understanding of Christianity
1) Legally, Pontius Pilate, the proper legal Roman authority, sentenced Jesus to death for, allegedly, claiming to be King of the Jews, a treasonous offense which, under Roman law, was punishable by death. Jesus did not defend Himself.
It is, simply true, that God chose the law of man, the death penalty, as the vehicle for the Perfect sacrifice. I am not sure if anyone has, ever, questioned that biblical narrative.
2) God establishes, with man, His death penalty support, first, in Genesis 9:6, around 2000 BC, written down by Moses around 1440 BC, way prior to Jesus' execution, and that support has, never gone away, as the Noahic Covenant is for all peoples, for all time.
3) It appears, pretty clear, at least, to me, that Sen. Hutchings looked at God's choosing man's law of the death penalty, in this specific, very unique case, as another, of many, examples of God's known support of the earthly death penalty, which, of course, by reason and example, it was.
I wouldn't use that example because the context of the Passion of the Christ is a very different context than the execution of murderers. One is the Perfect Sacrifice of the Perfect Innocent, the other is the execution of known murderers.
4) God chose the legal death penalty for Jesus to pay for the sins of man. As such, some can, understandably, see that God provides additional support for the death penalty being the proper sanction for some crimes, as, originally, established within Genesis 9:6.
5) Jesus took upon Himself all of the guilt and sins of mankind. As St. Jerome, stated, just below, Jesus took on all of that guilt upon Himself and was executed as a guilty among the guilty. Some Christians would find it clear that God approved of the execution of the guilty, with that being one of many examples.
"If no crime deserves the death penalty, then it is hard to see why it was fitting that Christ be put to death for our sins and crucified among thieves. St. Thomas Aquinas quotes a gloss of St. Jerome on Matthew 27: ‘As Christ became accursed of the cross for us, for our salvation He was crucified as a guilty one among the guilty.’ That Christ be put to death as a guilty person, presupposes that death is a fitting punishment for those who are guilty." Prof. Michael Pakaluk, The Death Penalty: An Opposing Viewpoints Series Book, Greenhaven Press, 1991
6) Jesus was executed/sacrificed as the required price for our sins. He, intentionally, did not defend Himself. By His making, His execution was willful and intentional, as it had to be.
7) Christians, of course, find both trials - there was a religious trial by the Sanhedrin , prior to Pilate's - were political shams and that Jesus was innocent of all charges, as He had to be.
8) Jesus was the Innocent Lamb of God, the only pathway through which His sacrifice could pay that heavy price for all that guilt and sin. The Perfect Innocent makes all the world's sins, His own, and because of that, His execution is the only justifiable payment for those sins, making it the gateway to man's salvation.
Aren't those basic Christian teachings, with the senator's comments, precisely along those lines?
She's not equating Jesus crucifixion to our death penalty. She is saying that God used the legal death penalty as the method for the sacrifice and, as true, it continues God's well known approval of an earthly death penalty. I wouldn't use the Passion of the Christ in that manner, but the Senator is free to and it is hard to deny her logic, if I have it right.
I think many people will have difficulty putting the crucifixion of Jesus, remotely, into the realm of the executions of murderers. I know I and many others do. However, that is, simply, a matter of perspective. Christian scholars and laymen have differences of opinions on many issues and they always will. This is one of many.
I look at the Passion of the Christ as a singular event in history, whereby nothing else should be compared to it. Others are free to disagree.
Here are some, additional, readings. Sincerely, Dudley Sharp
New Testament Death Penalty Support Overwhelming
ProDPinNC: New Testament Death Penalty Support Overwhelming
Poor conservative republicans....can't quit AOC...she terrifies them.Wyoming State Senator Invokes Jesus Dying to Defend Death Penalty
My question is, should states adopt a law that blocks total idiots from serving in the legislature?
Hey, let's bump it up to the federal level and boot AOC.
Poor conservative republicans....can't quit AOC...she terrifies them.Wyoming State Senator Invokes Jesus Dying to Defend Death Penalty
My question is, should states adopt a law that blocks total idiots from serving in the legislature?
Hey, let's bump it up to the federal level and boot AOC.
