WTF is wrong with these churches that open to hold sermons?

[james bond]

I've gotten to "know" your sky pixie as well as I want to.

That's Satan's influence as I said already. And you didn't believe he existed. As long as you accept it, then you being separated from God is fine with me. It's free will.

 

[Gracie]

if the government sees that even a private place is producing a lot of COVID-19 cases, then they have a right to shut it down due to being a danger to the community. What does it have to do with freedom? People's health and safety comes first.

The government can butt out of it. If people are afreaid of the virus, then THEY can stay home.

 

[BreezeWood]

satan were they alive would be more than pleased with the christian community the pandemic is the work of the Almighty.

Your troll (opinion) doesn't even matter because you do not believe in Jesus and his church.

Your troll (opinion) doesn't even matter because you do not believe in Jesus and his church.

.
it is you and your book of forgeries and fallacies that have abandoned the religion of antiquity as prescribed by the Almighty -

the religious itinerant was a great man and die for their principles - no, there is not a messiah nor was it proclaimed by the person the christian religion has falsifly ordained.

 

[Porter Rockwell]

Because they have faith and its their right to gather in Gods House. Period. If they choose to take a chance with their health, its their choice. Not anyone elses. It gives them comfort, and hope. Some here are too bitter and soulless to understand this.

I think the government has a say in this case because gathering in a confined space, singing, exalting, and such causes those liquid droplets to be transferred. This is why the church had to shut down after one service. Holding a church service is guaranteed to cause people to be infected and for coronavirus to spread more easily. It is the work of Satan.

So, where does this line of reasoning end? People know the risks of smoking. They do it. And second hand smoke kills more people in the United States than firearms! Do you support banning cigarettes? What about Freedom of Association?

It would be like smoking as it is illegal to smoke indoors in all public places or even outdoors at public gatherings. You have it right if it is a private church or private gathering. However, if the government sees that even a private place is producing a lot of COVID-19 cases, then they have a right to shut it down due to being a danger to the community. What does it have to do with freedom? People's health and safety comes first.

"He who would give up essential Liberty for the promise of temporary Safety deserves neither Liberty nor Safety." Benjamin Franklin

 

[james bond]

The government can butt out of it. If people are afreaid of the virus, then THEY can stay home.

The government or law enforcement haven't had to get involved because the chuches shut themselves down. In my neighborhood, we had two deaths and three others get COVID-19 from one church. That meant 200 people in the neighborhood had it. Since then, all the churches in the neighborhood, including mine, went to virtual services. There might've been one other COVID-19 death in the neighborhood but not related to church. That meant a total of 300 had in the neighborhood. After that, people heeded the social distancing and shelter in place for the most part. I don't think it's a question of freedom, but stupidity. At some point, they'll open up again, but they shouldn't now unless most in the area has been tested. We had one town in California where all the rich residents got tested because they paid some politician.

 

[james bond]

"He who would give up essential Liberty for the promise of temporary Safety deserves neither Liberty nor Safety." Benjamin Franklin

I would think liberals would be the first to do this and it has been shown throughout history. That said, this is a public health issue and not about safety. Even you mentioned smoking and how second hand smoke kills. Thus, if you're willing to go to jail over holding public worship, then that would be most Benjamin Franklin of you.

I gave an example of private worship and it appears that could get taken away by the liberals in charge (as they taking away private grad celebrations) -- https://www.sacbee.com/community/fo...2962806.html?ac_cid=DM201790&ac_bid=906042298.

 

[JoeB131]

Twisted. A very different perspective from what I have of both God and life in general. On the other hand, I am confident you feel yours is the more straightforward, direct approach.

Quite the contrary. Your entire religion is fear based.

Now, here's the thing. The ancient Hebrews didn't believe in Heaven or an afterlife. To them, God was every force of nature they didn't understand and needed to be appeased.

Modern people are a bit more sophisticated, and realize that nature is going to do what it's going to do.

So the only way they keep you in line is the promise of Heaven/Threat of Hell. Most of you people can't be "Good" without that.

 

[Meriweather]

Your entire religion is fear based.

It is not. It is based on The Way...a way of living this life...and that has nothing to do with fear, but with hope/expectation.

 

[JoeB131]

First, the only evidence that Yahwey is somehow a "late bloomer" is if you assume the worship of Yahwey only started with recorded history. We know that Yahwey was part of oral traditions long before being written down. Further we know from other oral traditions, used in other cultures were exceptionally accurate even over thousands of years.

Second, we know from torah that many other cultures were worshiping other 'gods' for thousands of years that there was faith in Yahwey, even within the Israelite culture.

This would be the book with the Talking Snakes and the Giants in it?

The thing is, we know from WRITTEN accounts that other cultures worshiped Ra in Egypt and Ishtar in Sumeria... but Yahweh doesn't show up until about 900 BCE in written accounts.

While Judaism was only enforced throughout all the Jews about 500 BCE, it's roots in the Torah existed back to Moses, which was 1400 BCE.

Actually, here's the problem with that. We really don't know WHEN Moses supposedly existed. The popular version is that he was contemporary with Ramesses II. 1279-1213 BCE. But we really don't know which Pharaoh is the Pharaoh of the Exodus. Candidates range from 1690 BCE to 1186.

Now we know Ramesses was a real person. WE EVEN STILL HAVE HIS BODY!!! But Moses, not so much.

If there is no historical connection of all people's around the world, then we would expect that many, if not most, would have utterly unconnected origin stories.

But in reality we see most, in fact nearly all, have very similar aspects to the Biblical narrative. Which is exactly what we would expect, since all people start at the Tower of Babel, and were scattered to the ends of the Earth.

Or that the Bible is just cribbing stories off of other religions/mythologies. The thing is, the Saga of Gilgamesh predates the story of Noah by thousands of years... and there are even earlier versions than Gilgamesh. So usually, in writing, when something comes first, we assume that was the original idea.

For instance, Flash Gordon preceded Star Wars by about 50 years. But no one is going to claim that Star Wars is the original version about space heroes fighting an evil empire.



In fact, if anything, you see the opposite effect. The God of the Torah is pretty much your Bronze Age Tribal Diety. But when the Jews got sucked into the Persian Empire, you see a lot of Zoroasterian influences. When they were part of the Greek world, you saw a lot of Greek Philosophy getting inserted in, which is where Christianity came from.

Heck, even today's "Christianity" where you all sit around at the Interfaith Pancake Breakfast is quite different than 500 years ago, when you were all murdering each other over transubstantiation and how many sacraments there are.

 

[JoeB131]

It is not. It is based on The Way...a way of living this life...and that has nothing to do with fear, but with hope/expectation.

Hope and Fear are two sides of the same coin. You Hope to get into Heaven because you Fear going to Hell.

 

[JoeB131]

That's Satan's influence as I said already. And you didn't believe he existed. As long as you accept it, then you being separated from God is fine with me. It's free will.

Uh, sorry, what really turned me off to Christianity was some nun saying really stupid shit at my Mom's wake. Satan wasn't even in the room.

I couldn't run away from that craziness fast enough.

 

[Meriweather]

Uh, sorry, what really turned me off to Christianity was some nun saying really stupid shit at my Mom's wake. Satan wasn't even in the room.

I couldn't run away from that craziness fast enough.

I know. One person had the power to effect your whole life and your whole relationship with God. I am sorry for that. You deserved better.

 

[JoeB131]

I know. One person had the power to effect your whole life and your whole relationship with God. I am sorry for that. You deserved better.

Actually, I appreciate the clarity. The whole upbringing was that this frustrated old lesbian somehow had a greater connection to the sky pixie than the rest of us. But when the rubber hit the road, she was just an ignorant old bat with no social grace.

Obviously, it wasn't a long trip from "Sister Mary Butch doesn't have the answer" to "None of these other pious frauds have the answers, either."

(I collectively refer to all the nuns from my Childhood as "Sister Mary Butch". It puts it in the right perspective.)

Now, the funny thing was, I was visiting my sister, and watched the Blues Brothers with her family. And you had the scene with Sister Mary Stigmata... and the people of my generation were laughing hysterically at it. My nieces just didn't get the joke.

 

[Andylusion]

First, the only evidence that Yahwey is somehow a "late bloomer" is if you assume the worship of Yahwey only started with recorded history. We know that Yahwey was part of oral traditions long before being written down. Further we know from other oral traditions, used in other cultures were exceptionally accurate even over thousands of years.

Second, we know from torah that many other cultures were worshiping other 'gods' for thousands of years that there was faith in Yahwey, even within the Israelite culture.

This would be the book with the Talking Snakes and the Giants in it?

The thing is, we know from WRITTEN accounts that other cultures worshiped Ra in Egypt and Ishtar in Sumeria... but Yahweh doesn't show up until about 900 BCE in written accounts.

While Judaism was only enforced throughout all the Jews about 500 BCE, it's roots in the Torah existed back to Moses, which was 1400 BCE.

Actually, here's the problem with that. We really don't know WHEN Moses supposedly existed. The popular version is that he was contemporary with Ramesses II. 1279-1213 BCE. But we really don't know which Pharaoh is the Pharaoh of the Exodus. Candidates range from 1690 BCE to 1186.

Now we know Ramesses was a real person. WE EVEN STILL HAVE HIS BODY!!! But Moses, not so much.

If there is no historical connection of all people's around the world, then we would expect that many, if not most, would have utterly unconnected origin stories.

But in reality we see most, in fact nearly all, have very similar aspects to the Biblical narrative. Which is exactly what we would expect, since all people start at the Tower of Babel, and were scattered to the ends of the Earth.

Or that the Bible is just cribbing stories off of other religions/mythologies. The thing is, the Saga of Gilgamesh predates the story of Noah by thousands of years... and there are even earlier versions than Gilgamesh. So usually, in writing, when something comes first, we assume that was the original idea.

For instance, Flash Gordon preceded Star Wars by about 50 years. But no one is going to claim that Star Wars is the original version about space heroes fighting an evil empire.



In fact, if anything, you see the opposite effect. The God of the Torah is pretty much your Bronze Age Tribal Diety. But when the Jews got sucked into the Persian Empire, you see a lot of Zoroasterian influences. When they were part of the Greek world, you saw a lot of Greek Philosophy getting inserted in, which is where Christianity came from.

Heck, even today's "Christianity" where you all sit around at the Interfaith Pancake Breakfast is quite different than 500 years ago, when you were all murdering each other over transubstantiation and how many sacraments there are.

The thing is, we know from WRITTEN accounts that other cultures worshiped Ra in Egypt and Ishtar in Sumeria... but Yahweh doesn't show up until about 900 BCE in written accounts.

Oldest inscription of Yahweh, is 1402 BCE.

Now we know Ramesses was a real person. WE EVEN STILL HAVE HIS BODY!!! But Moses, not so much.

Deuteronomy 34:6
He buried him (moses) in Moab, in the valley opposite Beth Peor, but to this day no one knows where his grave is.

So... the Bible is accurate, is your point?

The thing is, the Saga of Gilgamesh predates the story of Noah by thousands of years

The Saga o Gilgamesh, was found in the Library of Assyrian capital Nineveh. The stones were dated at 650 BCE.

In order to claim that the story, or poem, is older... you would have to trust in something like oral Traditions. If you believe oral traditions date the story older than the stone tablets, then I would assume you also need to trust oral tradition involving the creation story in the Torah.

As for the story itself, the idea is ridiculous. Whereas the Ark of the Bible would from a scientific perspective be a very stable and sea worthy vessel... the square cube of Gilgamesh, would sink, are at least be unstable, flipping and turning, killing everything inside.

Beyond that, the 'gods' of Gilgamesh are ridiculous. What 'god' cowers in fear at the flood? What 'god' starves without humans feeding them?

What is true, is that nearly all people groups around the world remember the flood. Harder to find a group that doesn't have a world flood.

The story of Noah is the only flood story that makes sense.

 

[BreezeWood]

First, the only evidence that Yahwey is somehow a "late bloomer" is if you assume the worship of Yahwey only started with recorded history. We know that Yahwey was part of oral traditions long before being written down. Further we know from other oral traditions, used in other cultures were exceptionally accurate even over thousands of years.

Second, we know from torah that many other cultures were worshiping other 'gods' for thousands of years that there was faith in Yahwey, even within the Israelite culture.

This would be the book with the Talking Snakes and the Giants in it?

The thing is, we know from WRITTEN accounts that other cultures worshiped Ra in Egypt and Ishtar in Sumeria... but Yahweh doesn't show up until about 900 BCE in written accounts.

While Judaism was only enforced throughout all the Jews about 500 BCE, it's roots in the Torah existed back to Moses, which was 1400 BCE.

Actually, here's the problem with that. We really don't know WHEN Moses supposedly existed. The popular version is that he was contemporary with Ramesses II. 1279-1213 BCE. But we really don't know which Pharaoh is the Pharaoh of the Exodus. Candidates range from 1690 BCE to 1186.

Now we know Ramesses was a real person. WE EVEN STILL HAVE HIS BODY!!! But Moses, not so much.

If there is no historical connection of all people's around the world, then we would expect that many, if not most, would have utterly unconnected origin stories.

But in reality we see most, in fact nearly all, have very similar aspects to the Biblical narrative. Which is exactly what we would expect, since all people start at the Tower of Babel, and were scattered to the ends of the Earth.

Or that the Bible is just cribbing stories off of other religions/mythologies. The thing is, the Saga of Gilgamesh predates the story of Noah by thousands of years... and there are even earlier versions than Gilgamesh. So usually, in writing, when something comes first, we assume that was the original idea.

For instance, Flash Gordon preceded Star Wars by about 50 years. But no one is going to claim that Star Wars is the original version about space heroes fighting an evil empire.



In fact, if anything, you see the opposite effect. The God of the Torah is pretty much your Bronze Age Tribal Diety. But when the Jews got sucked into the Persian Empire, you see a lot of Zoroasterian influences. When they were part of the Greek world, you saw a lot of Greek Philosophy getting inserted in, which is where Christianity came from.

Heck, even today's "Christianity" where you all sit around at the Interfaith Pancake Breakfast is quite different than 500 years ago, when you were all murdering each other over transubstantiation and how many sacraments there are.

The thing is, we know from WRITTEN accounts that other cultures worshiped Ra in Egypt and Ishtar in Sumeria... but Yahweh doesn't show up until about 900 BCE in written accounts.

Oldest inscription of Yahweh, is 1402 BCE.

Now we know Ramesses was a real person. WE EVEN STILL HAVE HIS BODY!!! But Moses, not so much.

Deuteronomy 34:6
He buried him (moses) in Moab, in the valley opposite Beth Peor, but to this day no one knows where his grave is.

So... the Bible is accurate, is your point?

The thing is, the Saga of Gilgamesh predates the story of Noah by thousands of years

The Saga o Gilgamesh, was found in the Library of Assyrian capital Nineveh. The stones were dated at 650 BCE.

In order to claim that the story, or poem, is older... you would have to trust in something like oral Traditions. If you believe oral traditions date the story older than the stone tablets, then I would assume you also need to trust oral tradition involving the creation story in the Torah.

As for the story itself, the idea is ridiculous. Whereas the Ark of the Bible would from a scientific perspective be a very stable and sea worthy vessel... the square cube of Gilgamesh, would sink, are at least be unstable, flipping and turning, killing everything inside.

Beyond that, the 'gods' of Gilgamesh are ridiculous. What 'god' cowers in fear at the flood? What 'god' starves without humans feeding them?

What is true, is that nearly all people groups around the world remember the flood. Harder to find a group that doesn't have a world flood.

The story of Noah is the only flood story that makes sense.

The story of Noah is the only flood story that makes sense.

.
the murder of wildlife will never be associated with the true parable of noah, its meaning and the understanding for the Almighty's intent and purpose -

you are just to lazy to correct your christian fairytale. a forgery and fallacy that corrupts the minds of children in a most barbaric manner.

 

[Andylusion]

First, the only evidence that Yahwey is somehow a "late bloomer" is if you assume the worship of Yahwey only started with recorded history. We know that Yahwey was part of oral traditions long before being written down. Further we know from other oral traditions, used in other cultures were exceptionally accurate even over thousands of years.

Second, we know from torah that many other cultures were worshiping other 'gods' for thousands of years that there was faith in Yahwey, even within the Israelite culture.

This would be the book with the Talking Snakes and the Giants in it?

The thing is, we know from WRITTEN accounts that other cultures worshiped Ra in Egypt and Ishtar in Sumeria... but Yahweh doesn't show up until about 900 BCE in written accounts.

While Judaism was only enforced throughout all the Jews about 500 BCE, it's roots in the Torah existed back to Moses, which was 1400 BCE.

Actually, here's the problem with that. We really don't know WHEN Moses supposedly existed. The popular version is that he was contemporary with Ramesses II. 1279-1213 BCE. But we really don't know which Pharaoh is the Pharaoh of the Exodus. Candidates range from 1690 BCE to 1186.

Now we know Ramesses was a real person. WE EVEN STILL HAVE HIS BODY!!! But Moses, not so much.

If there is no historical connection of all people's around the world, then we would expect that many, if not most, would have utterly unconnected origin stories.

But in reality we see most, in fact nearly all, have very similar aspects to the Biblical narrative. Which is exactly what we would expect, since all people start at the Tower of Babel, and were scattered to the ends of the Earth.

Or that the Bible is just cribbing stories off of other religions/mythologies. The thing is, the Saga of Gilgamesh predates the story of Noah by thousands of years... and there are even earlier versions than Gilgamesh. So usually, in writing, when something comes first, we assume that was the original idea.

For instance, Flash Gordon preceded Star Wars by about 50 years. But no one is going to claim that Star Wars is the original version about space heroes fighting an evil empire.



In fact, if anything, you see the opposite effect. The God of the Torah is pretty much your Bronze Age Tribal Diety. But when the Jews got sucked into the Persian Empire, you see a lot of Zoroasterian influences. When they were part of the Greek world, you saw a lot of Greek Philosophy getting inserted in, which is where Christianity came from.

Heck, even today's "Christianity" where you all sit around at the Interfaith Pancake Breakfast is quite different than 500 years ago, when you were all murdering each other over transubstantiation and how many sacraments there are.

The thing is, we know from WRITTEN accounts that other cultures worshiped Ra in Egypt and Ishtar in Sumeria... but Yahweh doesn't show up until about 900 BCE in written accounts.

Oldest inscription of Yahweh, is 1402 BCE.

Now we know Ramesses was a real person. WE EVEN STILL HAVE HIS BODY!!! But Moses, not so much.

Deuteronomy 34:6
He buried him (moses) in Moab, in the valley opposite Beth Peor, but to this day no one knows where his grave is.

So... the Bible is accurate, is your point?

The thing is, the Saga of Gilgamesh predates the story of Noah by thousands of years

The Saga o Gilgamesh, was found in the Library of Assyrian capital Nineveh. The stones were dated at 650 BCE.

In order to claim that the story, or poem, is older... you would have to trust in something like oral Traditions. If you believe oral traditions date the story older than the stone tablets, then I would assume you also need to trust oral tradition involving the creation story in the Torah.

As for the story itself, the idea is ridiculous. Whereas the Ark of the Bible would from a scientific perspective be a very stable and sea worthy vessel... the square cube of Gilgamesh, would sink, are at least be unstable, flipping and turning, killing everything inside.

Beyond that, the 'gods' of Gilgamesh are ridiculous. What 'god' cowers in fear at the flood? What 'god' starves without humans feeding them?

What is true, is that nearly all people groups around the world remember the flood. Harder to find a group that doesn't have a world flood.

The story of Noah is the only flood story that makes sense.

The story of Noah is the only flood story that makes sense.

.
the murder of wildlife will never be associated with the true parable of noah, its meaning and the understanding for the Almighty's intent and purpose -

you are just to lazy to correct your christian fairytale. a forgery and fallacy that corrupts the minds of children in a most barbaric manner.

Murder of wildlife?

Do you live in a house? Because I guarantee you murdered some wildlife, by being a house.

In fact, if you use soap, you murder wildlife.

 

[JoeB131]

Oldest inscription of Yahweh, is 1402 BCE.

Doubtful, and still long after other civilizations were established.

Deuteronomy 34:6
He buried him (moses) in Moab, in the valley opposite Beth Peor, but to this day no one knows where his grave is.

So... the Bible is accurate, is your point?

No, accurate would be telling us EXACTLY where his tomb is. ANd we could prove he was a real person.

As for the story itself, the idea is ridiculous. Whereas the Ark of the Bible would from a scientific perspective be a very stable and sea worthy vessel... the square cube of Gilgamesh, would sink, are at least be unstable, flipping and turning, killing everything inside.

Oooh, so you are trying to say who has the more believable Ark story? Really?

The Saga o Gilgamesh, was found in the Library of Assyrian capital Nineveh. The stones were dated at 650 BCE.

Wrong.

By the Old Babylonian Period (c. 1830 – c. 1531 BC), stories of Gilgamesh's legendary exploits had been woven into one or several long epics.[8] The Epic of Gilgamesh, the most complete account of Gilgamesh's adventures, was composed in Akkadian during the Middle Babylonian Period (c. 1600 – c. 1155 BC) by a scribe named Sîn-lēqi-unninni.[8]

What is true, is that nearly all people groups around the world remember the flood. Harder to find a group that doesn't have a world flood.

Actually,that probably has a lot more to do with the fact Flooding was a fact of life as the Ice Age was ending, and flash floods were a common thing. For instance, it is believed the Black Sea was oringally a lake until the sea level in the Mediterranean Sea rose enough to send waters flooding in.

But Noah is a myth, and not even an original one...