WTF is Happening to US?

[TemplarKormac]

Here we are fiddling with concocted issues like gay marriage and birth control while the world around us is exploding. Is another World War in the offing? We seem to be on a path to ruin, but no one wants to acknowledge it. Instead, we comfort ourselves with happy thoughts that the inevitable future is still a long way off.

Do you not think that ISIS poses a direct threat to our country? Do you not think that the US has been weakened by every measurement? Do you not think that many people in positions of power believe that we are an evil country that must be brought to its knees?

I don't ordinarily engage in despair, but the only bright light I see at the end of the tunnel we are in is a nuclear bomb. Is there any good news out there?

United we stand, divided we fall. We are a divided country.

In great part this has come to be because we allowed religion to become a very big part of our political forum.

And what is it you're suggesting in regards to religion?

 

[auditor0007]

United we stand, divided we fall. We are a divided country.

In great part this has come to be because we allowed religion to become a very big part of our political forum.

And what is it you're suggesting in regards to religion?

Abortion, gay marriage, and birth control; do any of those ring a bell? The religious right wants no part of any of them and will hold steadfast in their ideological mindset along with their right to own as big of a military arsenal as they want. Of course the far left wants none of this, but the far left is really not the problem. The problem is that the vast majority of Americans support a mishmash of those issues to varying degrees, but they are also realistic in the idea that very few things are absolute. That is where the problem lies with the religious right; they only believe in absolutes.

As a very simple example, I support the right to own guns, but I also support extensive registration and background checks, and I don't believe people should own enough weapons to supply an army. On abortion, I would be fine with limiting abortions to the first trimester, but I fully support the right of a woman to have the option within that time frame. The religious right may fight for time constraints on abortion, but their end goal is to eliminate it completely. Anything short of that and they will make life as miserable for anyone supporting abortion rights as is humanly possible.

The last thing, and it isn't necessarily limited to the religious right, is the outright hatred and bashing of poor people. Constantly calling the poor lazy does not win any pats on the back from reasonable Americans, but the right loves to throw that shit out there constantly. That is probably the main reason I left the Republican Party. The far right just sucks, and until that changes, the great divide will only grow greater.

 

[Picaro]

Ralph Nader on his opinion that there is plenty of common ground for both sides to reach a consensus on, usually issues of far more existential importance for most Americans.

The new left-right alliance in the US - Opinion - Al Jazeera English

A left-right alliance is emerging in the United States on one issue after another that could form unstoppable majorities for many overdue changes. Its manifestation comes in various forms.
First is the combined, vigorous assertion of public opinion. Last year, a shower of e-mails and other protests descended on Congress from voters that led to a near a majority, composed of Democrats and Republicans, defying their own leadership to say "no" to NSA dragnet snooping on Americans. Then liberal and conservative constituents told members of Congress to avoid becoming embroiled in another Middle East war, this time in Syria. In a major defeat for the neoconservatives, the ratio of "nays" to "yeas" from constituents were coming in from 60 to 100 to one. Congress backed down.
Americans of all political identities are tiring of costly imperial wars of choice and vastly bloated military budgets draining tax dollars from necessary public works at home. And early sign of this trend emerged in 2010 when liberal Democrat Rep. Barney Frank (MA) and Libertarian-Republican Rep. Ron Paul (TX) joined together to challenge the nearly $800bn a year for military programmes.
Looking ahead, should US President Barack Obama and his global corporate allies send the Trans-Pacific Partnership (TPP) to the Congress under a "fast track" procedure prohibiting any amendments, a majority composed of House Democrats and Republicans are ready to block it, again in defiance of their leaders. These rebelling lawmakers sense that existing trade agreements - NAFTA and the World Trade Organisation (WTO) - register opposition by many workers both liberals and conservatives back in their home districts.

Don't agree entirely, but these and other issues in the article are at least starting points.


Book review: ?Unstoppable? by Ralph Nader, on building a left-right alliance - The Washington Post

Much of the left’s agenda, “Unstoppable” argues, can be justified by citing revered conservative authors. Adam Smith described the invisible hand but also the “bad effects of high profits.” Friedrich Hayek condemned certain cartels and monopolies. Russell Kirk, who feared untrammeled government and capitalism, wrote that John D. Rockefeller and Karl Marx“were merely two agents of the same social force — an appetite cruelly inimical to human individuation.”
Nader cites these and other examples to argue that left and right should band together against the common enemy of “corporatism.” It’s really more the Naderite left he’s talking about, and an ever-shrinking pool of principled conservatives. But let’s hear him out. The issues he has in mind for a left-right alliance break down into three categories.
Category One is the Centrist Agenda. This consists of ideas that are uncontroversial but difficult to achieve in practice. They include promoting more efficiency in government contracting and spending, requiring an annual audit of the Pentagon budget, reviving civic education in schools, and preventing private exploitation of “the commons,” i.e., anything that’s owned by everybody — public lands, public airwaves, the Internet, etc. (One of two people to whom Nader dedicates “Unstoppable” is my late friend Jonathan Rowe, a journalist whose 2013 book, “Our Common Wealth,” argues for better stewardship of the commons. Like Nader, Rowe makes the case that there are good conservative reasons to do this.)
Category Two is what I’d call the Right On Agenda. It consists of ideas that are controversial to some degree but (to my mind, at least) extremely worthwhile. These include adjusting the minimum wage automatically to inflation, as proposed by the Obama administration — and supported by Mitt Romney before he ran for president. One argument Nader could make here, but doesn’t, is that such automatic adjustments would deprive Democrats of a political stick with which they’ve lately been beating Republicans who don’t want to raise the minimum wage.

Also more at the link. I'm not as optimistic as he is, but at least at the local levels and my own anecdotal experience is that there is some evidence of such 'coalitions' being very viable. Ironically it is far easier to get those reviled, evil 'Fundies' and some conservatives involved in local charity work and such things as building senior centers and the like than it is so-called 'Progressives' and neo-liberals; the latter are too busy with self-indulgence and bong hitting to be reliable show ups on a consistent basis for any long term projects.

 

[Esmeralda]

In great part this has come to be because we allowed religion to become a very big part of our political forum.

And what is it you're suggesting in regards to religion?

Abortion, gay marriage, and birth control; do any of those ring a bell? The religious right wants no part of any of them and will hold steadfast in their ideological mindset along with their right to own as big of a military arsenal as they want. Of course the far left wants none of this, but the far left is really not the problem. The problem is that the vast majority of Americans support a mishmash of those issues to varying degrees, but they are also realistic in the idea that very few things are absolute. That is where the problem lies with the religious right; they only believe in absolutes.

As a very simple example, I support the right to own guns, but I also support extensive registration and background checks, and I don't believe people should own enough weapons to supply an army. On abortion, I would be fine with limiting abortions to the first trimester, but I fully support the right of a woman to have the option within that time frame. The religious right may fight for time constraints on abortion, but their end goal is to eliminate it completely. Anything short of that and they will make life as miserable for anyone supporting abortion rights as is humanly possible.

The last thing, and it isn't necessarily limited to the religious right, is the outright hatred and bashing of poor people. Constantly calling the poor lazy does not win any pats on the back from reasonable Americans, but the right loves to throw that shit out there constantly. That is probably the main reason I left the Republican Party. The far right just sucks, and until that changes, the great divide will only grow greater.

 

[Delta4Embassy]

Here we are fiddling with concocted issues like gay marriage and birth control while the world around us is exploding. Is another World War in the offing? We seem to be on a path to ruin, but no one wants to acknowledge it. Instead, we comfort ourselves with happy thoughts that the inevitable future is still a long way off.

Do you not think that ISIS poses a direct threat to our country? Do you not think that the US has been weakened by every measurement? Do you not think that many people in positions of power believe that we are an evil country that must be brought to its knees?

I don't ordinarily engage in despair, but the only bright light I see at the end of the tunnel we are in is a nuclear bomb. Is there any good news out there?

"Every war when it comes, or before it comes, is represented not as a war but as an act of self-defense against a homicidal maniac." - George Orwell

ISIS is just the latest Boogeyman pro-war-in-Iraq forces are using to justify the eventual attack by the US. They're no threat to mainland US whatsoever. But if there's no threat, there's no way to justify re-invasion.

It's true there are far greater threats and challenges facing the world than gay marriage or immigration. But rather than confront those, the powers-that-be make up nonsensical issues to keep the proles (that'd be us) occupied.

"So long as they (the Proles) continued to work and breed, their other activities were without importance. Left to themselves, like cattle turned loose upon the plains of Argentina, they had reverted to a style of life that appeared to be natural to them, a sort of ancestral pattern...Heavy physical work, the care of home and children, petty quarrels with neighbors, films, football, beer and above all, gambling filled up the horizon of their minds. To keep them in control was not difficult." - George Orwell (1984)

 

[Bush92]

China gets stronger while the United States is invaded by foreigners and politicians talk about gay marriage. We are a nation of lazy cry baby Democrats.

 

[Delta4Embassy]

Before crying too much about invasion by foreigners, go make that complaint to a Native Nations member.

 

[eagle1462010]

America is sliding into decay. We are in the dependency stage of a nation...

Our roots were Christian, whether people like it or not. We have lost our faith, ethics, and morality.

We've traded the traditional values of family for greed, lust, and perversions. And we fail and attack each other, both blaming the other.

 

[Spoonman]

Here we are fiddling with concocted issues like gay marriage and birth control while the world around us is exploding. Is another World War in the offing? We seem to be on a path to ruin, but no one wants to acknowledge it. Instead, we comfort ourselves with happy thoughts that the inevitable future is still a long way off.

Do you not think that ISIS poses a direct threat to our country? Do you not think that the US has been weakened by every measurement? Do you not think that many people in positions of power believe that we are an evil country that must be brought to its knees?

I don't ordinarily engage in despair, but the only bright light I see at the end of the tunnel we are in is a nuclear bomb. Is there any good news out there?

United we stand, divided we fall. We are a divided country.

we are no longer Americans. We are Blacks, whites, Hispanics, Asians, gays, republicans, democrats, religious right, you name it. each concerned with our own special interests. not the interests of the country

 

[Delta4Embassy]

Even Rome fell.

 

[RKMBrown]

Here we are fiddling with concocted issues like gay marriage and birth control while the world around us is exploding. Is another World War in the offing? We seem to be on a path to ruin, but no one wants to acknowledge it. Instead, we comfort ourselves with happy thoughts that the inevitable future is still a long way off.

Do you not think that ISIS poses a direct threat to our country? Do you not think that the US has been weakened by every measurement? Do you not think that many people in positions of power believe that we are an evil country that must be brought to its knees?

I don't ordinarily engage in despair, but the only bright light I see at the end of the tunnel we are in is a nuclear bomb. Is there any good news out there?

Domestic issues are real, and symptomatic of why our Authoritarian views don't work. We should be promoting liberty not spitting on liberty of minority groups like gays.

We had a huge hand in creating ISIS, which is another indicator of why our Authoritarian views don't work. We should be espousing peace, not training and arming terrorists to attack Syria, only to have them turn on our allies in Iraq. A nutcase group without a nation attacks our homeland and we dive into an endless war of attrition in the middle east. There is nothing to be done in the middle east. Us being there will not end the violence there. Us being there will only increase the odds of them hating us and coming here with a nuke on a ship into NY harbor.

There is plenty of good news, but apparently that's not what you want to talk about.

 

[Darkwind]

Here we are fiddling with concocted issues like gay marriage and birth control while the world around us is exploding. Is another World War in the offing? We seem to be on a path to ruin, but no one wants to acknowledge it. Instead, we comfort ourselves with happy thoughts that the inevitable future is still a long way off.

Do you not think that ISIS poses a direct threat to our country? Do you not think that the US has been weakened by every measurement? Do you not think that many people in positions of power believe that we are an evil country that must be brought to its knees?

I don't ordinarily engage in despair, but the only bright light I see at the end of the tunnel we are in is a nuclear bomb. Is there any good news out there?

You may have a point.

Do you remember what the National obsession was just prior to 9/11/01?

I mean, literally, on 9/10/01...The entire nation was seething and frothing at the mouth over one single news item.

Do you recall what it was?

 

[warf]

Here we are fiddling with concocted issues like gay marriage and birth control while the world around us is exploding. Is another World War in the offing? We seem to be on a path to ruin, but no one wants to acknowledge it. Instead, we comfort ourselves with happy thoughts that the inevitable future is still a long way off.

Do you not think that ISIS poses a direct threat to our country? Do you not think that the US has been weakened by every measurement? Do you not think that many people in positions of power believe that we are an evil country that must be brought to its knees?

I don't ordinarily engage in despair, but the only bright light I see at the end of the tunnel we are in is a nuclear bomb. Is there any good news out there?

Another world war can happen only if we allow it to happen.

ISIS will be a problem as long as we keep doing what we do in the Mid East.

We seem to be unaware of the hate and suffering we cause. As long as we are in denial we will have problems with terrorists. If we keep listening to neo-cons we will lose it all.

Islamic Jihad existed BEFORE America and it exists today.

The goal then is still the same goal today.

Creating a World dominated exclusively by Islam and by a a single Caliph.

How does what we do or don't do in the Middle East or anywhere else change the Koran's instructions to Muslims to conquer the entire world?

If we didn't exist that would be their goal.

If we conquered every country in the M.E. that would still be their goal.

That is some light weight thinking.

Believing the Muslums are simply evil and bent on world domination is similar to the BS that was going around during the Bush years; the terrorists hate us because of our freedom!

The terrorists hate us because of our assistance to Israel in killing Palestinians, our overthrow of the Democratically elected government of Iran and other lethal diddling in their world.

Without understanding this one will never find a way out of this mess.

 

[RKMBrown]

Another world war can happen only if we allow it to happen.

ISIS will be a problem as long as we keep doing what we do in the Mid East.

We seem to be unaware of the hate and suffering we cause. As long as we are in denial we will have problems with terrorists. If we keep listening to neo-cons we will lose it all.

Islamic Jihad existed BEFORE America and it exists today.

The goal then is still the same goal today.

Creating a World dominated exclusively by Islam and by a a single Caliph.

How does what we do or don't do in the Middle East or anywhere else change the Koran's instructions to Muslims to conquer the entire world?

If we didn't exist that would be their goal.

If we conquered every country in the M.E. that would still be their goal.

That is some light weight thinking.

Believing the Muslums are simply evil and bent on world domination is similar to the BS that was going around during the Bush years; the terrorists hate us because of our freedom!

The terrorists hate us because of our assistance to Israel in killing Palestinians, our overthrow of the Democratically elected government of Iran and other lethal diddling in their world.

Without understanding this one will never find a way out of this mess.

Irony. A bunch of christians in the USA thinking they can end thousands of years of violence in the middle east by shooting at them, teaching them how to fight better, and arming them.

 

[Katzndogz]

Another world war can happen only if we allow it to happen.

ISIS will be a problem as long as we keep doing what we do in the Mid East.

We seem to be unaware of the hate and suffering we cause. As long as we are in denial we will have problems with terrorists. If we keep listening to neo-cons we will lose it all.

Islamic Jihad existed BEFORE America and it exists today.

The goal then is still the same goal today.

Creating a World dominated exclusively by Islam and by a a single Caliph.

How does what we do or don't do in the Middle East or anywhere else change the Koran's instructions to Muslims to conquer the entire world?

If we didn't exist that would be their goal.

If we conquered every country in the M.E. that would still be their goal.

That is some light weight thinking.

Believing the Muslums are simply evil and bent on world domination is similar to the BS that was going around during the Bush years; the terrorists hate us because of our freedom!

The terrorists hate us because of our assistance to Israel in killing Palestinians, our overthrow of the Democratically elected government of Iran and other lethal diddling in their world.

Without understanding this one will never find a way out of this mess.

It's people like you who just won't admit that muslims don't care about support for Israel or interference with the middle east. You just won't face the truth. Ask yourself how much help does Nigeria give Israel? How much interference does Nigeria do in the middle east? What is Boko Haram against? Why are they killing people by the hundreds?

 

[Picaro]

Before crying too much about invasion by foreigners, go make that complaint to a Native Nations member.

What do they have to complain about?

 

[Katzndogz]

Before crying too much about invasion by foreigners, go make that complaint to a Native Nations member.

What do they have to complain about?

The point he was trying to make is, because Americans came close to wiping out the Native Americans, they have no complaint now that they are being wiped out themselves. There is no right of the country to continue to exist.

 

[warf]

Islamic Jihad existed BEFORE America and it exists today.

The goal then is still the same goal today.

Creating a World dominated exclusively by Islam and by a a single Caliph.

How does what we do or don't do in the Middle East or anywhere else change the Koran's instructions to Muslims to conquer the entire world?

If we didn't exist that would be their goal.

If we conquered every country in the M.E. that would still be their goal.

That is some light weight thinking.

Believing the Muslums are simply evil and bent on world domination is similar to the BS that was going around during the Bush years; the terrorists hate us because of our freedom!

The terrorists hate us because of our assistance to Israel in killing Palestinians, our overthrow of the Democratically elected government of Iran and other lethal diddling in their world.

Without understanding this one will never find a way out of this mess.

It's people like you who just won't admit that muslims don't care about support for Israel or interference with the middle east. You just won't face the truth. Ask yourself how much help does Nigeria give Israel? How much interference does Nigeria do in the middle east? What is Boko Haram against? Why are they killing people by the hundreds?

Are you saying muslims don't care about our support for Israel and our interference in the middle east?

If that's the case you are too wrong thinking to discuss this.

 

[Picaro]

Before crying too much about invasion by foreigners, go make that complaint to a Native Nations member.

What do they have to complain about?

The point he was trying to make is, because Americans came close to wiping out the Native Americans, they have no complaint now that they are being wiped out themselves. There is no right of the country to continue to exist.

Except that 'native Americans' busied themselves with wiping each other out for the most part, so I guess it's just a matter of ignoring history in favor of some PC narrative. They were full participants in the politics of any era they wish to pick; the 'noble savage' myth is a Hollywood creation. The western tribes might have a flimsy case after the Civil War, but not much of one, and besides, many tribes that exist today would have been wiped out by other tribes if it hadn't been for the U.S.. The Osage for example, and many other smaller tribes. Most 'disappeared' through assimilation into white culture and by disease epidemics, not 'genocide' by whites. Many were wiped out before white men ever landed here, so it's just a false analogy, and no comparison.

 

[Zmrzlina]

Here we are fiddling with concocted issues like gay marriage and birth control while the world around us is exploding.

So politics are a zero sum game? You can't give equal attention to both foreign and domestic issues?

Do you not think that ISIS poses a direct threat to our country?

No they don't. The Isis situation is just further evidence that the US shouldn't have destabilized the region and be in the business of regime change.