WSJ makes a correction to Karl Rove article

[Political Junky]

Thanks, WSJ for correcting the wording. Thanks, Rachel Maddow for calling them on it.
Rove: 'The Road We've Traveled' With Obama - WSJ.com

Editor's note: An earlier version of this column included an incomplete quote from Bill Clinton in the last paragraph.

As for the killing of Osama bin Laden, Mr. Obama did what virtually any commander in chief would have done in the same situation. Even President Bill Clinton says in the film "I hope that's the call I would have made." For this to be portrayed as the epic achievement of the first term tells you how bare the White House cupboards are.
>
As originally posted, the words "I hope" were left out.

 

[The Rabbi]

Oh, WOW! Dyn-O-Mite! That blows the whole article to smithereens.
Oh, wait. No it doesn't.

 

[ladyliberal]

The "I hope" changes the meaning, indicating that Clinton now believes that Obama's decision was correct. Rove's original incorrect quote implied that Clinton believes that was the choice he would have made without the benefit of hindsight. Given that Rove's whole point regards how difficult the decision was, this nearly reverses the original meaning.

Still, as dishonest as it was, it seems to fit in well with the column as a whole. Perhaps Rove's greatest absurdity is that Jimmy Carter faced a weaker overall economy than Obama: he did not. Rove incorrectly concludes from the overall number of American jobs (in a time period that covers part of the economic crisis prior to the Stimulus) that the Stimulus did not created jobs. Where Obama criticizes his opponents for wanting to "let [the auto industry] go" Rove incorrectly interprets this as suggesting that bankruptcy was not an option (it was a bad option). Rove without explanation attributes certain promises regarding health care to Obama and calls them untrue. Rove's misleading phrasing also suggests that Iranian pursuit of nuclear power is a positive act of Obama's.

Rove's basic point, that Obama's video was slanted and played loosely with the truth, is certainly correct. However, Rove's column is much worse in this regard.

 

[The Rabbi]

The "I hope" changes the meaning, indicating that Clinton now believes that Obama's decision was correct. Rove's original incorrect quote implied that Clinton believes that was the choice he would have made without the benefit of hindsight. Given that Rove's whole point regards how difficult the decision was, this nearly reverses the original meaning.

Still, as dishonest as it was, it seems to fit in well with the column as a whole. Perhaps Rove's greatest absurdity is that Jimmy Carter faced a weaker overall economy than Obama: he did not. Rove incorrectly concludes from the overall number of American jobs (in a time period that covers part of the economic crisis prior to the Stimulus) that the Stimulus did not created jobs. Where Obama criticizes his opponents for wanting to "let [the auto industry] go" Rove incorrectly interprets this as suggesting that bankruptcy was not an option (it was a bad option). Rove without explanation attributes certain promises regarding health care to Obama and calls them untrue. Rove's misleading phrasing also suggests that Iranian pursuit of nuclear power is a positive act of Obama's.

Rove's basic point, that Obama's video was slanted and played loosely with the truth, is certainly correct. However, Rove's column is much worse in this regard.

It does not change much of anything. His point was that given the chance to take out bin Laden anyone would have done so. Especially Clinton, who never shied from bombing an aspirin factory if it could get himj votes.
He is correct that Carter had a weaker economy. There were many structural issues from long before his tenure. Does the "Misery Index" mean anything to you? Stagflation?
Bankruptcy for GM/Chrysler were the only options. In fact they filed bankruptcy. Had the normal rules applied this would be fine. But the Obama Administration trashed the rule of law
Obama made many promises about health care reform. All of them have proven to be untrue. And they were known to be untrue when he made them.
I'd suggest re-reading Rove's column with a more open mind. You know, the one libs pride themselves on?

 

[ladyliberal]

It does not change much of anything. His point was that given the chance to take out bin Laden anyone would have done so. Especially Clinton, who never shied from bombing an aspirin factory if it could get himj votes.
He is correct that Carter had a weaker economy. There were many structural issues from long before his tenure. Does the "Misery Index" mean anything to you? Stagflation?
Bankruptcy for GM/Chrysler were the only options. In fact they filed bankruptcy. Had the normal rules applied this would be fine. But the Obama Administration trashed the rule of law
Obama made many promises about health care reform. All of them have proven to be untrue. And they were known to be untrue when he made them.
I'd suggest re-reading Rove's column with a more open mind. You know, the one libs pride themselves on?

The choice was not "Do you want us to take out bin Laden?" It was something more like:

"We think we might found bin Laden. Do you want us to try to gather more information?" Yes.
"OK, we think we might have found him (50% certainty), and we can't get any more information. Should we go in now?" Yes.
"Should we involve the Pakistani authorities?" No.
"Should we use helicopters or missiles?" Helicopters.

I could easily imagine another president making different choices. I could also imagine an army general presented with the question "bin Laden might be at Tora Bora, or he might not. Should we commit enough ground troops to the battle to ensure we do capture him if he is there?" answering poorly, ans General Franks in fact did.

I am familiar with the Misery index. It's not very scientific (even if we accept that we want a linear combination of UE and inflation, there's no reason to add the fractional unemployment to the annual inflation rate at one-to-one). It also purports to be a measure of misery, not of strength. Overall strength of the economy (which is not necessarily the thing I care most about) is better measured by GDP or by its rate of change. By that latter measure the recent time period (2008-09) was clearly the worst since the Great Depression (http://webcache.googleusercontent.c...onal/xls/gdpchg.xls+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us).


It's absurd to say that bankruptcy for the auto industry was the only option. There were any number of complicated choices to make that affected the outcome.

The Obama administration did not trash the rule of law. Had they violated the rule of law those creditors unhappy with the result could have successfully sued them.

It's absurd to say that all of Obama's promises about health care have proven untrue. Do you really think you have an accurate mental catalog of Obama's promises, or do you accept as an article of faith that anything he says is untrue? In any event, Politifact documents a number of promises that have proven quite true: PolitiFact | The Obameter: Campaign Promises that are about Health Care.

 

[g5000]

The film is backward looking. That's so you don't notice no one has a clue what Obama's plans for the future are.

Doesn't that lack of information strike anyone as very odd?

 

[Rozman]

What choice did the President have with OBL.
There wasn't any.
To make the claim that the President made a historic choice in the matter is ludicrous.

 

[ladyliberal]

The film is backward looking. That's so you don't notice no one has a clue what Obama's plans for the future are.

Doesn't that lack of information strike anyone as very odd?

I think it's perfectly appropriate for the film to focus on the past. If it didn't, Obama would be accused of running away from his record. In any event, there's plenty of time for Obama to talk about the future later in the campaign. Right now there's some information on his website but it is pretty vague (though Romney's info is too vague for my tastes as well).

If I had to guess Obama's plans for his second term, I would guess that they were pretty modest. A divided congress and the accumulation of opposition mean that Obama will be much much weaker in his second term. When was the last time a president had a major legislative accomplishment in his second term?

 

[Dick Tuck]

Bush would have involved Pakistan, who have a bad habit of blowing operations like this.

 

[Vidi]

The "I hope" changes the meaning, indicating that Clinton now believes that Obama's decision was correct. Rove's original incorrect quote implied that Clinton believes that was the choice he would have made without the benefit of hindsight. Given that Rove's whole point regards how difficult the decision was, this nearly reverses the original meaning.

Still, as dishonest as it was, it seems to fit in well with the column as a whole. Perhaps Rove's greatest absurdity is that Jimmy Carter faced a weaker overall economy than Obama: he did not. Rove incorrectly concludes from the overall number of American jobs (in a time period that covers part of the economic crisis prior to the Stimulus) that the Stimulus did not created jobs. Where Obama criticizes his opponents for wanting to "let [the auto industry] go" Rove incorrectly interprets this as suggesting that bankruptcy was not an option (it was a bad option). Rove without explanation attributes certain promises regarding health care to Obama and calls them untrue. Rove's misleading phrasing also suggests that Iranian pursuit of nuclear power is a positive act of Obama's.

Rove's basic point, that Obama's video was slanted and played loosely with the truth, is certainly correct. However, Rove's column is much worse in this regard.

I don't think the inclusion or exclusion of "I hope" reflects on Obama as much as it would have reflected on Clinton.

Most people just aren't going to pick up on that subtle of a nuance.

 

[rdean]

Thanks, WSJ for correcting the wording. Thanks, Rachel Maddow for calling them on it.
Rove: 'The Road We've Traveled' With Obama - WSJ.com

Editor's note: An earlier version of this column included an incomplete quote from Bill Clinton in the last paragraph.

As for the killing of Osama bin Laden, Mr. Obama did what virtually any commander in chief would have done in the same situation. Even President Bill Clinton says in the film "I hope that's the call I would have made." For this to be portrayed as the epic achievement of the first term tells you how bare the White House cupboards are.
>
As originally posted, the words "I hope" were left out.

Bare?

What the heck has Obama done so far?

Strange how a political party that really has zero achievements for the last 30 years would complain that such a remarkable president would have none. That would make him and them the same. But not only do the Republicans have no achievements, they have lots and lots of terrible disasters. Should we go down the list? Again?

 

[Political Junky]

What choice did the President have with OBL.
There wasn't any.
To make the claim that the President made a historic choice in the matter is ludicrous.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HMVdh8vdJfs]Bush On Bin Laden: "I truly am not that concerned about him - YouTube[/ame]

 

[The Rabbi]

It does not change much of anything. His point was that given the chance to take out bin Laden anyone would have done so. Especially Clinton, who never shied from bombing an aspirin factory if it could get himj votes.
He is correct that Carter had a weaker economy. There were many structural issues from long before his tenure. Does the "Misery Index" mean anything to you? Stagflation?
Bankruptcy for GM/Chrysler were the only options. In fact they filed bankruptcy. Had the normal rules applied this would be fine. But the Obama Administration trashed the rule of law
Obama made many promises about health care reform. All of them have proven to be untrue. And they were known to be untrue when he made them.
I'd suggest re-reading Rove's column with a more open mind. You know, the one libs pride themselves on?

The choice was not "Do you want us to take out bin Laden?" It was something more like:

"We think we might found bin Laden. Do you want us to try to gather more information?" Yes.
"OK, we think we might have found him (50% certainty), and we can't get any more information. Should we go in now?" Yes.
"Should we involve the Pakistani authorities?" No.
"Should we use helicopters or missiles?" Helicopters.

I could easily imagine another president making different choices. I could also imagine an army general presented with the question "bin Laden might be at Tora Bora, or he might not. Should we commit enough ground troops to the battle to ensure we do capture him if he is there?" answering poorly, ans General Franks in fact did.

I am familiar with the Misery index. It's not very scientific (even if we accept that we want a linear combination of UE and inflation, there's no reason to add the fractional unemployment to the annual inflation rate at one-to-one). It also purports to be a measure of misery, not of strength. Overall strength of the economy (which is not necessarily the thing I care most about) is better measured by GDP or by its rate of change. By that latter measure the recent time period (2008-09) was clearly the worst since the Great Depression (http://webcache.googleusercontent.c...onal/xls/gdpchg.xls+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us).


It's absurd to say that bankruptcy for the auto industry was the only option. There were any number of complicated choices to make that affected the outcome.

The Obama administration did not trash the rule of law. Had they violated the rule of law those creditors unhappy with the result could have successfully sued them.

It's absurd to say that all of Obama's promises about health care have proven untrue. Do you really think you have an accurate mental catalog of Obama's promises, or do you accept as an article of faith that anything he says is untrue? In any event, Politifact documents a number of promises that have proven quite true: PolitiFact | The Obameter: Campaign Promises that are about Health Care.

Sincxe I doubt you were there you were not privy to what happened. Given the importance of bin Laden as a target it is hard to imagine anyone making any other decision. It was the ultimate no-brainer.
Creditors did sue in the Chrysler case. It was a trashing of rule of law as the secured creditors got screwed and the unions got the company.
It is hard to remember any claim made by Obama about health care reform that was true.
"This will not add one thin dime to the deficit"-untrue.
"If you like your health care plan, you can keep it." -untrue
"If you like your doctor you can keep him"-untrue
"We'll put all the negotiations on C-SPAN"-untrue

"That's what we need," Obama said. "We need courage. You know this debate is about far more than politics It comes down to what kind of country do we want to be. It’s about the millions of lives that would be touched and, in some cases, saved, by making health insurance more secure and more affordable. And the truth is, what’s at stake in this debate, it’s not just our ability to solve this problem; it’s about our ability to solve any problem."

President Barack Obama campaigns for health care reform in Strongsville | cleveland.com

Health insurance is less affordable as premiums have risen in part because of Obama's mandates. So that was a lie.

OBAMA: Well, I actually think that a couple of the ones that Hillary mentioned are genuine policy differences that are worthy of debate.

Let's take health care. About 95 percent of our plans are similar. We both set up a government plan that would allow people who otherwise don't have health insurance because of a preexisting condition, like my mother had, or at least what the insurance said was a preexisting condition, let them get health insurance.

We both want to emphasize prevention, because we've got to do something about ever escalating costs and we don't want children, who I meet all the time, going to emergency rooms for treatable illnesses like asthma.

It is true we've got a policy difference, because my view is that the reason people don't have health care, and I meet them all the time, in South Carolina, a mother whose child has cerebral palsy and could not get insurance for and started crying during a town hall meeting, and Hillary, I'm sure, has had the same experiences.

What they're struggling with is they can't afford the health care. And so I emphasize reducing costs. My belief is that if we make it affordable, if we provide subsidies to those who can't afford it, they will buy it.

Senator Clinton has a different approach. She believes that we have to force people who don't have health insurance to buy it. Otherwise, there will be a lot of people who don't get it.

OBAMA: I don't see those folks. And I think that it is important for us to recognize that if, in fact, you are going to mandate the purchase of insurance and it's not affordable, then there's going to have to be some enforcement mechanism that the government uses. And they may charge people who already don't have health care fines, or have to take it out of their paychecks. And that, I don't think, is helping those without health insurance. That is a genuine difference.

Transcript of Thursday's Democratic presidential debate - CNN.com

So that was a lie, that he wouldn't force people to get health insurance.
One could go on and on here.

 

[Sallow]

What choice did the President have with OBL.
There wasn't any.
To make the claim that the President made a historic choice in the matter is ludicrous.

Bullshit.

 

[Sallow]

Maddow pointed out that the Narrative that Willard Mitt Romney is putting out there is a complete lie. Romney's lied on several occasions and has never made any corrections. He also contradicts himself constantly. Add Rove into the mix..who has a habit of going after people's strengths and it's a dangerous combination.

 

[Mr. Shaman]

Thanks, WSJ for correcting the wording. Thanks, Rachel Maddow for calling them on it.
Rove: 'The Road We've Traveled' With Obama - WSJ.com

Editor's note: An earlier version of this column included an incomplete quote from Bill Clinton in the last paragraph.

As for the killing of Osama bin Laden, Mr. Obama did what virtually any commander in chief would have done in the same situation. Even President Bill Clinton says in the film "I hope that's the call I would have made." For this to be portrayed as the epic achievement of the first term tells you how bare the White House cupboards are.
>
As originally posted, the words "I hope" were left out.

"As for the killing of Osama bin Laden, Mr. Obama did what virtually any commander in chief would have done in the same situation. Even President Bill Clinton says in the film "I hope that's the call I would have made." For this to be portrayed as the epic achievement of the first term tells you how bare the White House cupboards are."

Yeah, Karl....."any commander in chief" but YOUR meal-ticket!!

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mmtPBTybQ9k]The Hunt For Bin Laden - YouTube[/ame]

*

I can't believe The President is all-that-concerned with the opinion of some celebrity-watcher/film-critic from....

....The Murdoch Street Journalhttp://www.counterpunch.org/2002/11/01/exposing-karl-rove/

 

[Mr. Shaman]

Maddow pointed out that the Narrative that Willard Mitt Romney is putting out there is a complete lie. Romney's lied on several occasions and has never made any corrections. He also contradicts himself constantly. Add Rove into the mix..who has a habit of going after people's strengths and it's a dangerous combination.

Some people (just) never get-over their need to over-compensate for gettin' their ass whupped by.....

....some little-girl.

 

[The Rabbi]

Maddow pointed out that the Narrative that Willard Mitt Romney is putting out there is a complete lie. Romney's lied on several occasions and has never made any corrections. He also contradicts himself constantly. Add Rove into the mix..who has a habit of going after people's strengths and it's a dangerous combination.

This is relevant how?

 

[LoneLaugher]

The "I hope" changes the meaning, indicating that Clinton now believes that Obama's decision was correct. Rove's original incorrect quote implied that Clinton believes that was the choice he would have made without the benefit of hindsight. Given that Rove's whole point regards how difficult the decision was, this nearly reverses the original meaning.

Still, as dishonest as it was, it seems to fit in well with the column as a whole. Perhaps Rove's greatest absurdity is that Jimmy Carter faced a weaker overall economy than Obama: he did not. Rove incorrectly concludes from the overall number of American jobs (in a time period that covers part of the economic crisis prior to the Stimulus) that the Stimulus did not created jobs. Where Obama criticizes his opponents for wanting to "let [the auto industry] go" Rove incorrectly interprets this as suggesting that bankruptcy was not an option (it was a bad option). Rove without explanation attributes certain promises regarding health care to Obama and calls them untrue. Rove's misleading phrasing also suggests that Iranian pursuit of nuclear power is a positive act of Obama's.

Rove's basic point, that Obama's video was slanted and played loosely with the truth, is certainly correct. However, Rove's column is much worse in this regard.

I don't think the inclusion or exclusion of "I hope" reflects on Obama as much as it would have reflected on Clinton.

Most people just aren't going to pick up on that subtle of a nuance.

You are wrong. The inclusion of the words accurately describes what Clinton said. He was clearly praising Obama for the decision. Excluding them as Rove did leaves one with the impression that Clinton did not think much of Obama's decision.

 

[The Rabbi]

The "I hope" changes the meaning, indicating that Clinton now believes that Obama's decision was correct. Rove's original incorrect quote implied that Clinton believes that was the choice he would have made without the benefit of hindsight. Given that Rove's whole point regards how difficult the decision was, this nearly reverses the original meaning.

Still, as dishonest as it was, it seems to fit in well with the column as a whole. Perhaps Rove's greatest absurdity is that Jimmy Carter faced a weaker overall economy than Obama: he did not. Rove incorrectly concludes from the overall number of American jobs (in a time period that covers part of the economic crisis prior to the Stimulus) that the Stimulus did not created jobs. Where Obama criticizes his opponents for wanting to "let [the auto industry] go" Rove incorrectly interprets this as suggesting that bankruptcy was not an option (it was a bad option). Rove without explanation attributes certain promises regarding health care to Obama and calls them untrue. Rove's misleading phrasing also suggests that Iranian pursuit of nuclear power is a positive act of Obama's.

Rove's basic point, that Obama's video was slanted and played loosely with the truth, is certainly correct. However, Rove's column is much worse in this regard.

I don't think the inclusion or exclusion of "I hope" reflects on Obama as much as it would have reflected on Clinton.

Most people just aren't going to pick up on that subtle of a nuance.

You are wrong. The inclusion of the words accurately describes what Clinton said. He was clearly praising Obama for the decision. Excluding them as Rove did leaves one with the impression that Clinton did not think much of Obama's decision.

Neither. Rove quotes it to show any chief exec would have made the same decision. The addtional words really don't change that.

As for the killing of Osama bin Laden, Mr. Obama did what virtually any commander in chief would have done in the same situation