Would You Lock Your Doors

[Valerie]

I have dogs and guns live out in the country and i lock my doors.

Why invite trouble?

Meh, why live in fear?

Damn, you almost sound rational.

don't go overboard, the creep just got finished throwing me to the gators!

and skull pilot's rational prudence does not equate to 'living in fear' any more than the unhinged one's owning a gun for self defense.

 

[flacaltenn]

i see what you are trying to point out. However, I think you are missing my point. As a Black person your people were more than slaves before they ever knew about the US. Why are you clinging dearly to a heritage of slavery and not one that your forefathers had before arriving here in the US? I dont get the celebration of southern heritage if it was one of chattel slavery for a Black person? Worst type of slavery in the history of the world that delegated you to the status of a mule. Something mental is going on with any Black person that celebrates this heritage regardless of the excuses. I can understand white people having fond memories of that period but it baffles me as to why a Black person would.

Lemme lay it bare for you as white Southerner who had no real heritage in the South. That's the way your southern kin lived. White folks in the South would never have learned to appreciate their contributions to their valued Southern heritage. Not from the textbooks I was given. But the kind of healing I've seen in the South causes white folk to WEEP over the success of what you see only slave labor and the contributions that were made.

African-Americans

In 1839 General Harding brought a young enslaved boy to work at Belle Meade. His name was Robert “Bob” Green. As he grew up working with the horses, he became General Harding’s right hand and was an expert in everything related to the Thoroughbred. At the end of the war, Bob continued to work for the horse farm, and according to an 1879 ledger book in the Belle Meade archives, he was the highest paid worker on the farm as the head hostler or groom. Bob Green became famous for his horse knowledge, and it has been said that many a gentleman in the horse business owed a debt of gratitude to Bob for his knowledge at the yearling sales. The head groom at Belle Meade always wore a white apron, and Green was seen wearing his apron even in New York City. Bob was introduced to President Grover Cleveland during his visit in 1887, and Bob led President Cleveland on a tour of the stud, including profiles of Iroquois, Bramble, Enquirer, Luke Blackburn, Great Tom.

Bob Green was instrumental in taking care of the horses in the stud’s first great sale out of state. During the train trip to New York, the Johnstown Flood of 1889 occurred. The rails were covered in water and the train was forced to detour. During their confinement in the railcars, the horses became excited and the grooms, including Bob, had to hold the horses’ heads to keep them from becoming injured. Despite their best efforts, some of the horses were injured anyway, causing the first New York sale to falter.

At the end of his life, Green was forced to move from the plantation and his home at the old family cabin to his property in Nashville. Not only had he been in charge of all Thoroughbreds at Belle Meade, he owned and raced Thoroughbreds during his lifetime and was heartbroken to leave Belle Meade. In 1906, he was granted his request for burial at the farm, where he rests today in an unmarked grave.

Bob had at least 4 grooms working for him including Sam Nichols who in the 1880’s was offered a position at Fairview Farm but declined in order to stay working at the famous Belle Meade farm.

Doesn't have the part of the story that brought me to tears, but when Mr Green had rough times as a free man and was forced to sell his most cherished horses, descendents of the Hardings secretly bought them at auction and gave them back to him.. That man wasn't JUST a slave for his life. And his LIFE was decidedly Southern culture. Not the HIGH life, but DISTINCTIVELY southern. He played in circles that even white folks couldn't touch..

Buried in an unmarked grave kind of says it all.

You didnt understand the story Ravi. He died being a free man (IIRC) for about 20 years. And by that time, the Hardings also "lost the farm" so to speak.. So i believe (dont confidently know) that the burial took place on the land of the NEW owners of the property. It's a shame, because some of their famous horses have grave markers there. That's one of ironies of these stories.

 

[flacaltenn]

I actually had to look it up -- but I believe the Stars and Bars NEVER FLEW over a Southern slaver plantation prior to that Yankee War of Aggression. It's NOT a symbol of South prior to the War. So you're giving it much too much credence for being a symbol of slavery.

I've gotten friendly with many of volunteers and docents that work the Heritage sites in my area, and have learned that this Black Southern Pride deal has to do with the concept that their ancestors lives had meaning and impact and that their stories are Southern stories that are intertwined with the slaver regime. Like the man who was one of the South's premier Thoroughbred husbandry experts and DOMINATED the Tenn/Kentucky horse trade as the slave of the owner of the Belle Meade mansion here in my hood. He was honored by all the mighty owners of the horse trade. And to deny his Southern story would be revisionist history..

Oh yeah. The flag came into existence as a result of the souths stance on keeping slavery alive. It stood for the confederate cause. In case people forget the confederacy wanted slavery to be part of their lives. That's where I don't understand the disconnect with some Black people. If that flag stood for the souths willingness to fight a war to keep you enslaved how many screws do you have to have loose to want to support that flag? My family is from the south and they hate that flag worse than I do being born where that flag is rarely if ever seen. You cant deny your history but you dont need a constant reminder of it flying in your face either if you wish to move past it.

All I'm trying to point to you is that for the descendents of most the slaves in the South, it was the American Flag that flew over those plantations while their kin were alive. And that how they lived and what they did is INSEPARABLE from Southern heritage and history. That flag is only associated with the conflict that resolved the practice of slavery amongst other issues. There is no other symbol of Southern heritage that comemorates that era. Perhaps we should PROPOSE one that ISN'T linked to the war just so you won't be as uncomfortable as you are..

i see what you are trying to point out. However, I think you are missing my point. As a Black person your people were more than slaves before they ever knew about the US. Why are you clinging dearly to a heritage of slavery and not one that your forefathers had before arriving here in the US? I dont get the celebration of southern heritage if it was one of chattel slavery for a Black person? Worst type of slavery in the history of the world that delegated you to the status of a mule. Something mental is going on with any Black person that celebrates this heritage regardless of the excuses. I can understand white people having fond memories of that period but it baffles me as to why a Black person would.

Lemme lay it bare for you as white Southerner who had no real heritage in the South. That's the way your southern kin lived. White folks in the South would never have learned to appreciate their contributions to their valued Southern heritage. Not from the textbooks I was given. But the kind of healing I've seen in the South causes white folk to WEEP over the success of what you see only slave labor and the contributions that were made.

African-Americans

In 1839 General Harding brought a young enslaved boy to work at Belle Meade. His name was Robert “Bob” Green. As he grew up working with the horses, he became General Harding’s right hand and was an expert in everything related to the Thoroughbred. At the end of the war, Bob continued to work for the horse farm, and according to an 1879 ledger book in the Belle Meade archives, he was the highest paid worker on the farm as the head hostler or groom. Bob Green became famous for his horse knowledge, and it has been said that many a gentleman in the horse business owed a debt of gratitude to Bob for his knowledge at the yearling sales. The head groom at Belle Meade always wore a white apron, and Green was seen wearing his apron even in New York City. Bob was introduced to President Grover Cleveland during his visit in 1887, and Bob led President Cleveland on a tour of the stud, including profiles of Iroquois, Bramble, Enquirer, Luke Blackburn, Great Tom.

Bob Green was instrumental in taking care of the horses in the stud’s first great sale out of state. During the train trip to New York, the Johnstown Flood of 1889 occurred. The rails were covered in water and the train was forced to detour. During their confinement in the railcars, the horses became excited and the grooms, including Bob, had to hold the horses’ heads to keep them from becoming injured. Despite their best efforts, some of the horses were injured anyway, causing the first New York sale to falter.

At the end of his life, Green was forced to move from the plantation and his home at the old family cabin to his property in Nashville. Not only had he been in charge of all Thoroughbreds at Belle Meade, he owned and raced Thoroughbreds during his lifetime and was heartbroken to leave Belle Meade. In 1906, he was granted his request for burial at the farm, where he rests today in an unmarked grave.

Bob had at least 4 grooms working for him including Sam Nichols who in the 1880’s was offered a position at Fairview Farm but declined in order to stay working at the famous Belle Meade farm.

Doesn't have the part of the story that brought me to tears, but when Mr Green had rough times as a free man and was forced to sell his most cherished horses, descendents of the Hardings secretly bought them at auction and gave them back to him.. That man wasn't JUST a slave for his life. And his LIFE was decidedly Southern culture. Not the HIGH life, but DISTINCTIVELY southern. He played in circles that even white folks couldn't touch..

My southern kin were taught to hate the south because of the racism they experienced. You say "wasn't just a slave" as if that is a minor detail. I think you are missing the point. A gilded cage is still a cage and this guy just happens to be a bird that was allowed to live in that gilded cage. His story is all the more a slap in the face because it assumes these circles he frequented somehow made up for all the other Black people going through hell in the south. Black people dont need to be taught we contributed to the souths heritage. We already know this. White people need to be taught that. A flag that was made to symbolize the attempt to keep slavery going should be seen as a dirty rag by Black people. A few one offs of deluded Blacks who buried their heads in the sand to cope with their reality wont change that.

Oh I get the message.. So do those Southern Black docents that dress in slave garb and conduct the tours. But you are selling your southern kin short by not focusing on the acheivers and their importance to society even as slaves. Those black lawn jockey statues that you see on White people's lawn that piss you off in the NORTH ??? In the South, they still tell of tales of black slave jockeys who won 4 Kentucky derbies as slaves. And I've yet to see one on someone's lawn down here. ((OK.. Maybe in rural Kentucky ))

The appreciation of the Southern heritage story down here is part of the reason for the HONEST and comprehensive HEALING in race relations. BECAUSE of the links in heritage and ancestry between black and white. And a lot of those yahoos with the Star/Bars that scare Miss Ravi and piss you off, may know just as much or more about the fame of your ancestry than your typical average northern Black studies professor. Those Confederate symbols are not the racial taunts you imagine them to be. They are just a convienient marker for the past culture of the South. Tragedy and all.

 

[Uncensored2008]

[

I'd roll down the window and spit on the car. Why would I lock my door?

Sure you would, you're an

 

[Asclepias]

[

I'd roll down the window and spit on the car. Why would I lock my door?

Sure you would, you're an

You must be pretty timid if you think rolling down a window and spitting on a car is tough!

 

[Uncensored2008]

[
You must be pretty timid if you think rolling down a window and spitting on a car is tough!

In California, spitting on someone is assault - thus they would be justified in beating the shit out of you. Many people would.

Look, you're just talking shit, about how tough you are when we all know you're a pansy ass - and probably white.

 

[Asclepias]

Oh yeah. The flag came into existence as a result of the souths stance on keeping slavery alive. It stood for the confederate cause. In case people forget the confederacy wanted slavery to be part of their lives. That's where I don't understand the disconnect with some Black people. If that flag stood for the souths willingness to fight a war to keep you enslaved how many screws do you have to have loose to want to support that flag? My family is from the south and they hate that flag worse than I do being born where that flag is rarely if ever seen. You cant deny your history but you dont need a constant reminder of it flying in your face either if you wish to move past it.

All I'm trying to point to you is that for the descendents of most the slaves in the South, it was the American Flag that flew over those plantations while their kin were alive. And that how they lived and what they did is INSEPARABLE from Southern heritage and history. That flag is only associated with the conflict that resolved the practice of slavery amongst other issues. There is no other symbol of Southern heritage that comemorates that era. Perhaps we should PROPOSE one that ISN'T linked to the war just so you won't be as uncomfortable as you are..

i see what you are trying to point out. However, I think you are missing my point. As a Black person your people were more than slaves before they ever knew about the US. Why are you clinging dearly to a heritage of slavery and not one that your forefathers had before arriving here in the US? I dont get the celebration of southern heritage if it was one of chattel slavery for a Black person? Worst type of slavery in the history of the world that delegated you to the status of a mule. Something mental is going on with any Black person that celebrates this heritage regardless of the excuses. I can understand white people having fond memories of that period but it baffles me as to why a Black person would.

Lemme lay it bare for you as white Southerner who had no real heritage in the South. That's the way your southern kin lived. White folks in the South would never have learned to appreciate their contributions to their valued Southern heritage. Not from the textbooks I was given. But the kind of healing I've seen in the South causes white folk to WEEP over the success of what you see only slave labor and the contributions that were made.

African-Americans

In 1839 General Harding brought a young enslaved boy to work at Belle Meade. His name was Robert “Bob” Green. As he grew up working with the horses, he became General Harding’s right hand and was an expert in everything related to the Thoroughbred. At the end of the war, Bob continued to work for the horse farm, and according to an 1879 ledger book in the Belle Meade archives, he was the highest paid worker on the farm as the head hostler or groom. Bob Green became famous for his horse knowledge, and it has been said that many a gentleman in the horse business owed a debt of gratitude to Bob for his knowledge at the yearling sales. The head groom at Belle Meade always wore a white apron, and Green was seen wearing his apron even in New York City. Bob was introduced to President Grover Cleveland during his visit in 1887, and Bob led President Cleveland on a tour of the stud, including profiles of Iroquois, Bramble, Enquirer, Luke Blackburn, Great Tom.

Bob Green was instrumental in taking care of the horses in the stud’s first great sale out of state. During the train trip to New York, the Johnstown Flood of 1889 occurred. The rails were covered in water and the train was forced to detour. During their confinement in the railcars, the horses became excited and the grooms, including Bob, had to hold the horses’ heads to keep them from becoming injured. Despite their best efforts, some of the horses were injured anyway, causing the first New York sale to falter.

At the end of his life, Green was forced to move from the plantation and his home at the old family cabin to his property in Nashville. Not only had he been in charge of all Thoroughbreds at Belle Meade, he owned and raced Thoroughbreds during his lifetime and was heartbroken to leave Belle Meade. In 1906, he was granted his request for burial at the farm, where he rests today in an unmarked grave.

Bob had at least 4 grooms working for him including Sam Nichols who in the 1880’s was offered a position at Fairview Farm but declined in order to stay working at the famous Belle Meade farm.

Doesn't have the part of the story that brought me to tears, but when Mr Green had rough times as a free man and was forced to sell his most cherished horses, descendents of the Hardings secretly bought them at auction and gave them back to him.. That man wasn't JUST a slave for his life. And his LIFE was decidedly Southern culture. Not the HIGH life, but DISTINCTIVELY southern. He played in circles that even white folks couldn't touch..

My southern kin were taught to hate the south because of the racism they experienced. You say "wasn't just a slave" as if that is a minor detail. I think you are missing the point. A gilded cage is still a cage and this guy just happens to be a bird that was allowed to live in that gilded cage. His story is all the more a slap in the face because it assumes these circles he frequented somehow made up for all the other Black people going through hell in the south. Black people dont need to be taught we contributed to the souths heritage. We already know this. White people need to be taught that. A flag that was made to symbolize the attempt to keep slavery going should be seen as a dirty rag by Black people. A few one offs of deluded Blacks who buried their heads in the sand to cope with their reality wont change that.

Oh I get the message.. So do those Southern Black docents that dress in slave garb and conduct the tours. But you are selling your southern kin short by not focusing on the acheivers and their importance to society even as slaves. Those black lawn jockey statues that you see on White people's lawn that piss you off in the NORTH ??? In the South, they still tell of tales of black slave jockeys who won 4 Kentucky derbies as slaves. And I've yet to see one on someone's lawn down here. ((OK.. Maybe in rural Kentucky ))

The appreciation of the Southern heritage story down here is part of the reason for the HONEST and comprehensive HEALING in race relations. BECAUSE of the links in heritage and ancestry between black and white. And a lot of those yahoos with the Star/Bars that scare Miss Ravi and piss you off, may know just as much or more about the fame of your ancestry than your typical average northern Black studies professor. Those Confederate symbols are not the racial taunts you imagine them to be. They are just a convienient marker for the past culture of the South. Tragedy and all.

I've heard the side of the story that that the confederate symbols are not racial taunts or more specifically a yearning for those good ole days. I just dont buy it. When its all said and done the flag symbolizes the souths attempt to keep my ancestors enslaved. There is no skating around that fact. A Black person pretending thats not true is just about the most severe case of delusion I can think of.

 

[Asclepias]

[
You must be pretty timid if you think rolling down a window and spitting on a car is tough!

In California, spitting on someone is assault - thus they would be justified in beating the shit out of you. Many people would.

Look, you're just talking shit, about how tough you are when we all know you're a pansy ass - and probably white.

I said spitting on a car stupid. Learn how to read. You are just so timid you thought I meant I was going to start a fight. The very prospect frightens you. i get it.

 

[Ravi]

i see what you are trying to point out. However, I think you are missing my point. As a Black person your people were more than slaves before they ever knew about the US. Why are you clinging dearly to a heritage of slavery and not one that your forefathers had before arriving here in the US? I dont get the celebration of southern heritage if it was one of chattel slavery for a Black person? Worst type of slavery in the history of the world that delegated you to the status of a mule. Something mental is going on with any Black person that celebrates this heritage regardless of the excuses. I can understand white people having fond memories of that period but it baffles me as to why a Black person would.

Lemme lay it bare for you as white Southerner who had no real heritage in the South. That's the way your southern kin lived. White folks in the South would never have learned to appreciate their contributions to their valued Southern heritage. Not from the textbooks I was given. But the kind of healing I've seen in the South causes white folk to WEEP over the success of what you see only slave labor and the contributions that were made.

African-Americans

In 1839 General Harding brought a young enslaved boy to work at Belle Meade. His name was Robert “Bob” Green. As he grew up working with the horses, he became General Harding’s right hand and was an expert in everything related to the Thoroughbred. At the end of the war, Bob continued to work for the horse farm, and according to an 1879 ledger book in the Belle Meade archives, he was the highest paid worker on the farm as the head hostler or groom. Bob Green became famous for his horse knowledge, and it has been said that many a gentleman in the horse business owed a debt of gratitude to Bob for his knowledge at the yearling sales. The head groom at Belle Meade always wore a white apron, and Green was seen wearing his apron even in New York City. Bob was introduced to President Grover Cleveland during his visit in 1887, and Bob led President Cleveland on a tour of the stud, including profiles of Iroquois, Bramble, Enquirer, Luke Blackburn, Great Tom.

Bob Green was instrumental in taking care of the horses in the stud’s first great sale out of state. During the train trip to New York, the Johnstown Flood of 1889 occurred. The rails were covered in water and the train was forced to detour. During their confinement in the railcars, the horses became excited and the grooms, including Bob, had to hold the horses’ heads to keep them from becoming injured. Despite their best efforts, some of the horses were injured anyway, causing the first New York sale to falter.

At the end of his life, Green was forced to move from the plantation and his home at the old family cabin to his property in Nashville. Not only had he been in charge of all Thoroughbreds at Belle Meade, he owned and raced Thoroughbreds during his lifetime and was heartbroken to leave Belle Meade. In 1906, he was granted his request for burial at the farm, where he rests today in an unmarked grave.

Bob had at least 4 grooms working for him including Sam Nichols who in the 1880’s was offered a position at Fairview Farm but declined in order to stay working at the famous Belle Meade farm.

Doesn't have the part of the story that brought me to tears, but when Mr Green had rough times as a free man and was forced to sell his most cherished horses, descendents of the Hardings secretly bought them at auction and gave them back to him.. That man wasn't JUST a slave for his life. And his LIFE was decidedly Southern culture. Not the HIGH life, but DISTINCTIVELY southern. He played in circles that even white folks couldn't touch..

Buried in an unmarked grave kind of says it all.

You didnt understand the story Ravi. He died being a free man (IIRC) for about 20 years. And by that time, the Hardings also "lost the farm" so to speak.. So i believe (dont confidently know) that the burial took place on the land of the NEW owners of the property. It's a shame, because some of their famous horses have grave markers there. That's one of ironies of these stories.

I don't find it ironic that a human would be treated lower than a horse. I find it sad.

 

[Ravi]

Oh yeah. The flag came into existence as a result of the souths stance on keeping slavery alive. It stood for the confederate cause. In case people forget the confederacy wanted slavery to be part of their lives. That's where I don't understand the disconnect with some Black people. If that flag stood for the souths willingness to fight a war to keep you enslaved how many screws do you have to have loose to want to support that flag? My family is from the south and they hate that flag worse than I do being born where that flag is rarely if ever seen. You cant deny your history but you dont need a constant reminder of it flying in your face either if you wish to move past it.

All I'm trying to point to you is that for the descendents of most the slaves in the South, it was the American Flag that flew over those plantations while their kin were alive. And that how they lived and what they did is INSEPARABLE from Southern heritage and history. That flag is only associated with the conflict that resolved the practice of slavery amongst other issues. There is no other symbol of Southern heritage that comemorates that era. Perhaps we should PROPOSE one that ISN'T linked to the war just so you won't be as uncomfortable as you are..

i see what you are trying to point out. However, I think you are missing my point. As a Black person your people were more than slaves before they ever knew about the US. Why are you clinging dearly to a heritage of slavery and not one that your forefathers had before arriving here in the US? I dont get the celebration of southern heritage if it was one of chattel slavery for a Black person? Worst type of slavery in the history of the world that delegated you to the status of a mule. Something mental is going on with any Black person that celebrates this heritage regardless of the excuses. I can understand white people having fond memories of that period but it baffles me as to why a Black person would.

Lemme lay it bare for you as white Southerner who had no real heritage in the South. That's the way your southern kin lived. White folks in the South would never have learned to appreciate their contributions to their valued Southern heritage. Not from the textbooks I was given. But the kind of healing I've seen in the South causes white folk to WEEP over the success of what you see only slave labor and the contributions that were made.

African-Americans

In 1839 General Harding brought a young enslaved boy to work at Belle Meade. His name was Robert “Bob” Green. As he grew up working with the horses, he became General Harding’s right hand and was an expert in everything related to the Thoroughbred. At the end of the war, Bob continued to work for the horse farm, and according to an 1879 ledger book in the Belle Meade archives, he was the highest paid worker on the farm as the head hostler or groom. Bob Green became famous for his horse knowledge, and it has been said that many a gentleman in the horse business owed a debt of gratitude to Bob for his knowledge at the yearling sales. The head groom at Belle Meade always wore a white apron, and Green was seen wearing his apron even in New York City. Bob was introduced to President Grover Cleveland during his visit in 1887, and Bob led President Cleveland on a tour of the stud, including profiles of Iroquois, Bramble, Enquirer, Luke Blackburn, Great Tom.

Bob Green was instrumental in taking care of the horses in the stud’s first great sale out of state. During the train trip to New York, the Johnstown Flood of 1889 occurred. The rails were covered in water and the train was forced to detour. During their confinement in the railcars, the horses became excited and the grooms, including Bob, had to hold the horses’ heads to keep them from becoming injured. Despite their best efforts, some of the horses were injured anyway, causing the first New York sale to falter.

At the end of his life, Green was forced to move from the plantation and his home at the old family cabin to his property in Nashville. Not only had he been in charge of all Thoroughbreds at Belle Meade, he owned and raced Thoroughbreds during his lifetime and was heartbroken to leave Belle Meade. In 1906, he was granted his request for burial at the farm, where he rests today in an unmarked grave.

Bob had at least 4 grooms working for him including Sam Nichols who in the 1880’s was offered a position at Fairview Farm but declined in order to stay working at the famous Belle Meade farm.

Doesn't have the part of the story that brought me to tears, but when Mr Green had rough times as a free man and was forced to sell his most cherished horses, descendents of the Hardings secretly bought them at auction and gave them back to him.. That man wasn't JUST a slave for his life. And his LIFE was decidedly Southern culture. Not the HIGH life, but DISTINCTIVELY southern. He played in circles that even white folks couldn't touch..

My southern kin were taught to hate the south because of the racism they experienced. You say "wasn't just a slave" as if that is a minor detail. I think you are missing the point. A gilded cage is still a cage and this guy just happens to be a bird that was allowed to live in that gilded cage. His story is all the more a slap in the face because it assumes these circles he frequented somehow made up for all the other Black people going through hell in the south. Black people dont need to be taught we contributed to the souths heritage. We already know this. White people need to be taught that. A flag that was made to symbolize the attempt to keep slavery going should be seen as a dirty rag by Black people. A few one offs of deluded Blacks who buried their heads in the sand to cope with their reality wont change that.

Oh I get the message.. So do those Southern Black docents that dress in slave garb and conduct the tours. But you are selling your southern kin short by not focusing on the acheivers and their importance to society even as slaves. Those black lawn jockey statues that you see on White people's lawn that piss you off in the NORTH ??? In the South, they still tell of tales of black slave jockeys who won 4 Kentucky derbies as slaves. And I've yet to see one on someone's lawn down here. ((OK.. Maybe in rural Kentucky ))

The appreciation of the Southern heritage story down here is part of the reason for the HONEST and comprehensive HEALING in race relations. BECAUSE of the links in heritage and ancestry between black and white. And a lot of those yahoos with the Star/Bars that scare Miss Ravi and piss you off, may know just as much or more about the fame of your ancestry than your typical average northern Black studies professor. Those Confederate symbols are not the racial taunts you imagine them to be. They are just a convienient marker for the past culture of the South. Tragedy and all.

The flag doesn't scare me. It symbolizes thug culture and that scares me.

 

[Asclepias]

All I'm trying to point to you is that for the descendents of most the slaves in the South, it was the American Flag that flew over those plantations while their kin were alive. And that how they lived and what they did is INSEPARABLE from Southern heritage and history. That flag is only associated with the conflict that resolved the practice of slavery amongst other issues. There is no other symbol of Southern heritage that comemorates that era. Perhaps we should PROPOSE one that ISN'T linked to the war just so you won't be as uncomfortable as you are..

i see what you are trying to point out. However, I think you are missing my point. As a Black person your people were more than slaves before they ever knew about the US. Why are you clinging dearly to a heritage of slavery and not one that your forefathers had before arriving here in the US? I dont get the celebration of southern heritage if it was one of chattel slavery for a Black person? Worst type of slavery in the history of the world that delegated you to the status of a mule. Something mental is going on with any Black person that celebrates this heritage regardless of the excuses. I can understand white people having fond memories of that period but it baffles me as to why a Black person would.

Lemme lay it bare for you as white Southerner who had no real heritage in the South. That's the way your southern kin lived. White folks in the South would never have learned to appreciate their contributions to their valued Southern heritage. Not from the textbooks I was given. But the kind of healing I've seen in the South causes white folk to WEEP over the success of what you see only slave labor and the contributions that were made.

African-Americans

In 1839 General Harding brought a young enslaved boy to work at Belle Meade. His name was Robert “Bob” Green. As he grew up working with the horses, he became General Harding’s right hand and was an expert in everything related to the Thoroughbred. At the end of the war, Bob continued to work for the horse farm, and according to an 1879 ledger book in the Belle Meade archives, he was the highest paid worker on the farm as the head hostler or groom. Bob Green became famous for his horse knowledge, and it has been said that many a gentleman in the horse business owed a debt of gratitude to Bob for his knowledge at the yearling sales. The head groom at Belle Meade always wore a white apron, and Green was seen wearing his apron even in New York City. Bob was introduced to President Grover Cleveland during his visit in 1887, and Bob led President Cleveland on a tour of the stud, including profiles of Iroquois, Bramble, Enquirer, Luke Blackburn, Great Tom.

Bob Green was instrumental in taking care of the horses in the stud’s first great sale out of state. During the train trip to New York, the Johnstown Flood of 1889 occurred. The rails were covered in water and the train was forced to detour. During their confinement in the railcars, the horses became excited and the grooms, including Bob, had to hold the horses’ heads to keep them from becoming injured. Despite their best efforts, some of the horses were injured anyway, causing the first New York sale to falter.

At the end of his life, Green was forced to move from the plantation and his home at the old family cabin to his property in Nashville. Not only had he been in charge of all Thoroughbreds at Belle Meade, he owned and raced Thoroughbreds during his lifetime and was heartbroken to leave Belle Meade. In 1906, he was granted his request for burial at the farm, where he rests today in an unmarked grave.

Bob had at least 4 grooms working for him including Sam Nichols who in the 1880’s was offered a position at Fairview Farm but declined in order to stay working at the famous Belle Meade farm.

Doesn't have the part of the story that brought me to tears, but when Mr Green had rough times as a free man and was forced to sell his most cherished horses, descendents of the Hardings secretly bought them at auction and gave them back to him.. That man wasn't JUST a slave for his life. And his LIFE was decidedly Southern culture. Not the HIGH life, but DISTINCTIVELY southern. He played in circles that even white folks couldn't touch..

My southern kin were taught to hate the south because of the racism they experienced. You say "wasn't just a slave" as if that is a minor detail. I think you are missing the point. A gilded cage is still a cage and this guy just happens to be a bird that was allowed to live in that gilded cage. His story is all the more a slap in the face because it assumes these circles he frequented somehow made up for all the other Black people going through hell in the south. Black people dont need to be taught we contributed to the souths heritage. We already know this. White people need to be taught that. A flag that was made to symbolize the attempt to keep slavery going should be seen as a dirty rag by Black people. A few one offs of deluded Blacks who buried their heads in the sand to cope with their reality wont change that.

Oh I get the message.. So do those Southern Black docents that dress in slave garb and conduct the tours. But you are selling your southern kin short by not focusing on the acheivers and their importance to society even as slaves. Those black lawn jockey statues that you see on White people's lawn that piss you off in the NORTH ??? In the South, they still tell of tales of black slave jockeys who won 4 Kentucky derbies as slaves. And I've yet to see one on someone's lawn down here. ((OK.. Maybe in rural Kentucky ))

The appreciation of the Southern heritage story down here is part of the reason for the HONEST and comprehensive HEALING in race relations. BECAUSE of the links in heritage and ancestry between black and white. And a lot of those yahoos with the Star/Bars that scare Miss Ravi and piss you off, may know just as much or more about the fame of your ancestry than your typical average northern Black studies professor. Those Confederate symbols are not the racial taunts you imagine them to be. They are just a convienient marker for the past culture of the South. Tragedy and all.

The flag doesn't scare me. It symbolizes thug culture and that scares me.

I actually have one that I piss on every Juneteenth. One of my relatives in Mississippi gave me the idea about 15 years ago.

 

[flacaltenn]

Oh I get the message.. So do those Southern Black docents that dress in slave garb and conduct the tours. But you are selling your southern kin short by not focusing on the acheivers and their importance to society even as slaves. Those black lawn jockey statues that you see on White people's lawn that piss you off in the NORTH ??? In the South, they still tell of tales of black slave jockeys who won 4 Kentucky derbies as slaves. And I've yet to see one on someone's lawn down here. ((OK.. Maybe in rural Kentucky ))

The appreciation of the Southern heritage story down here is part of the reason for the HONEST and comprehensive HEALING in race relations. BECAUSE of the links in heritage and ancestry between black and white. And a lot of those yahoos with the Star/Bars that scare Miss Ravi and piss you off, may know just as much or more about the fame of your ancestry than your typical average northern Black studies professor. Those Confederate symbols are not the racial taunts you imagine them to be. They are just a convienient marker for the past culture of the South. Tragedy and all.

I've heard the side of the story that that the confederate symbols are not racial taunts or more specifically a yearning for those good ole days. I just dont buy it. When its all said and done the flag symbolizes the souths attempt to keep my ancestors enslaved. There is no skating around that fact. A Black person pretending thats not true is just about the most severe case of delusion I can think of.

Wouldn't expect you to understand. It's tainted history to you. And to me to some extent. Have you followed the Southern part of ancestry back? Making it personal and human might help you skip over their "legal state" a bit and understand their impact on the culture and development of the South. Even stood in Slave Quarters on a plantation? Looked at the kitchens and barns they worked in? The structures and businesses they helped build? There were many more poor whites in the South that never ever make a FOOTNOTE on history.. But the slave contributions actually ARE integral to the history...

Yeah -- I know -- you're STILL not impressed. Come visit. You'll be singing Sweet Home Alabama by the time you head back north..

 

[Asclepias]

Oh I get the message.. So do those Southern Black docents that dress in slave garb and conduct the tours. But you are selling your southern kin short by not focusing on the acheivers and their importance to society even as slaves. Those black lawn jockey statues that you see on White people's lawn that piss you off in the NORTH ??? In the South, they still tell of tales of black slave jockeys who won 4 Kentucky derbies as slaves. And I've yet to see one on someone's lawn down here. ((OK.. Maybe in rural Kentucky ))

The appreciation of the Southern heritage story down here is part of the reason for the HONEST and comprehensive HEALING in race relations. BECAUSE of the links in heritage and ancestry between black and white. And a lot of those yahoos with the Star/Bars that scare Miss Ravi and piss you off, may know just as much or more about the fame of your ancestry than your typical average northern Black studies professor. Those Confederate symbols are not the racial taunts you imagine them to be. They are just a convienient marker for the past culture of the South. Tragedy and all.

I've heard the side of the story that that the confederate symbols are not racial taunts or more specifically a yearning for those good ole days. I just dont buy it. When its all said and done the flag symbolizes the souths attempt to keep my ancestors enslaved. There is no skating around that fact. A Black person pretending thats not true is just about the most severe case of delusion I can think of.

Wouldn't expect you to understand. It's tainted history to you. And to me to some extent. Have you followed the Southern part of ancestry back? Making it personal and human might help you skip over their "legal state" a bit and understand their impact on the culture and development of the South. Even stood in Slave Quarters on a plantation? Looked at the kitchens and barns they worked in? The structures and businesses they helped build? There were many more poor whites in the South that never ever make a FOOTNOTE on history.. But the slave contributions actually ARE integral to the history...

Yeah -- I know -- you're STILL not impressed. Come visit. You'll be singing Sweet Home Alabama by the time you head back north..

All of my ancestry is southern. I am first generation that is not southern. Our family tree has been traced all the way back to Africa and on the white side to Ireland. I have been to Ghana where the slaves were place on the ships and in the plantation homes in MS. Yes we are/were an integral part of this country but to me that was just making lemonade out of lemons. These accomplishments were done under duress and against significant odds. I dont take solace in a few whites recognizing that. The larger issue was and remains the climate under which these accomplishments were done.

 

[Ernie S.]

The Stars and Bars is the Confederate Battle Flag. If you want to get all pissy about a piece of cloth, here is the flag of the Confederacy:

The mouth breathers in my area don't fly that flag.

No one flies it here either except a civil war reenactments, or maybe someone will trot one out on Robert E. Lee Day.
The Stars and Bars, though is but a symbol of Southern heritage, a battle flag, akin to this one the TEA Party displays.

There is no more reason to be afraid of someone displaying it on their vehicle than you would be if you saw this one in the back window of a Lexus.

 

[Ernie S.]

At one time, yes it did symbolize a military effort to maintain the status quo in the South.

Go ahead and gather up 1000 people who fly the Stars and Bars on their trucks and ask them if they would vote to return blacks to slavery. You might get a half dozen yes votes. They would likely be two drunk rednecks trying to be funny and 4 people who've been mugged in Birmingham.

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

My car auto locks and I immediately UNlock it. I don't like that function. Canal or no canal. Then again, I don't live in an area where it is needed, either.

In answer to the question....No.

Hate the autolock feature!!! Had a Ford truck that did that and it would pinch the hell out of your arm!! Had a constant bruise on my bicep until I figured out how to by pass it.

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

Chances are you'd have nothing to fear from a Swastika in Germany as they're banned from being displayed in public. In my opinion, you probably wouldn't have much to fear from seeing a Rebel flag being displayed in a car in America, as most of the people who fly them only do so to indicate to other, likeminded folks that they're part of the 'club', as it were. In all honesty, you should be more wary of vehicles whose occupants are playing gangsta rap than drivers who display the Rebel flag.

Often, they are doing both.

Doing what, exactly?

Playing rap and flying their stupid flag.

If they're playing rap music and flying the Rebel flag then you really don't have anything to worry about.

I thought I was the only one

Chances are you'd have nothing to fear from a Swastika in Germany as they're banned from being displayed in public. In my opinion, you probably wouldn't have much to fear from seeing a Rebel flag being displayed in a car in America, as most of the people who fly them only do so to indicate to other, likeminded folks that they're part of the 'club', as it were. In all honesty, you should be more wary of vehicles whose occupants are playing gangsta rap than drivers who display the Rebel flag.

Often, they are doing both.

Doing what, exactly?

Playing rap and flying their stupid flag.

If they're playing rap music and flying the Rebel flag then you really don't have anything to worry about.

I thought I was the only one who liked these guys!!!

 

[Swagger]

Oh I get the message.. So do those Southern Black docents that dress in slave garb and conduct the tours. But you are selling your southern kin short by not focusing on the acheivers and their importance to society even as slaves. Those black lawn jockey statues that you see on White people's lawn that piss you off in the NORTH ??? In the South, they still tell of tales of black slave jockeys who won 4 Kentucky derbies as slaves. And I've yet to see one on someone's lawn down here. ((OK.. Maybe in rural Kentucky ))

The appreciation of the Southern heritage story down here is part of the reason for the HONEST and comprehensive HEALING in race relations. BECAUSE of the links in heritage and ancestry between black and white. And a lot of those yahoos with the Star/Bars that scare Miss Ravi and piss you off, may know just as much or more about the fame of your ancestry than your typical average northern Black studies professor. Those Confederate symbols are not the racial taunts you imagine them to be. They are just a convienient marker for the past culture of the South. Tragedy and all.

I've heard the side of the story that that the confederate symbols are not racial taunts or more specifically a yearning for those good ole days. I just dont buy it. When its all said and done the flag symbolizes the souths attempt to keep my ancestors enslaved. There is no skating around that fact. A Black person pretending thats not true is just about the most severe case of delusion I can think of.

Wouldn't expect you to understand. It's tainted history to you. And to me to some extent. Have you followed the Southern part of ancestry back? Making it personal and human might help you skip over their "legal state" a bit and understand their impact on the culture and development of the South. Even stood in Slave Quarters on a plantation? Looked at the kitchens and barns they worked in? The structures and businesses they helped build? There were many more poor whites in the South that never ever make a FOOTNOTE on history.. But the slave contributions actually ARE integral to the history...

Yeah -- I know -- you're STILL not impressed. Come visit. You'll be singing Sweet Home Alabama by the time you head back north..

All of my ancestry is southern. I am first generation that is not southern. Our family tree has been traced all the way back to Africa and on the white side to Ireland. I have been to Ghana where the slaves were place on the ships and in the plantation homes in MS. Yes we are/were an integral part of this country but to me that was just making lemonade out of lemons. These accomplishments were done under duress and against significant odds. I dont take solace in a few whites recognizing that. The larger issue was and remains the climate under which these accomplishments were done.

Before which they were captured and held by other Black Africans. Then sold to Europeans by Black Africans.

 

[Uncensored2008]

don't go overboard, the creep just got finished throwing me to the gators!

Geezzz, I hadn't thought this through. Would that be considered animal cruelty?

Would the gators need Pepto Bismal? Is Pepro Bismal for Alligators "Gator Aid?"

and skull pilot's rational prudence does not equate to 'living in fear' any more than the unhinged one's owning a gun for self defense.

 

[Valerie]

I have two 60 pound dogs, and a loaded .38 within arms reach. AND I live in a good neighborhood.

so why do you keep a loaded .38 within arms reach?