'Would the Tea Party Exist....'

[Sky Dancer]

Most Americans are conservative?

 

[Foxfyre]

Yes.

 

[Greenbeard]

Most Americans are conservative?

A plurality self-identify as conservative. So no, not really. If you actually look at what people think about policy issues, it's pretty clear that a full 40-odd percent of the country is not what you would generally think of as conservative, even if they call themselves that. For example, only 27% would argue that it's not the federal government's responsibility to guarantee health insurance for all Americans.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

You'll see in November if this is a Progressive or Conservative nation

 

[Intense]

You'll see in November if this is a Progressive or Conservative nation

They have so totally lost the Independents they conned into supporting them.

 

[Foxfyre]

Most Americans are conservative?

A plurality self-identify as conservative. So no, not really. If you actually look at what people think about policy issues, it's pretty clear that a full 40-odd percent of the country is not what you would generally think of as conservative, even if they call themselves that. For example, only 27% would argue that it's not the federal government's responsibility to guarantee health insurance for all Americans.

UNLESS you consider that most people are not in lockstep with all other people. The Pew Research Center has done exhaustive research in this and comes up with pretty much the same results that Gallup does. But they break it down even further and concur with Gallup that more Americans are going right of center on more and more issues when compared to a few years ago.

So.....if you take those who identify themselves as conservative, and you take those who mostly side with those who identify themselves as conservative on issues dear to conservative, a strong majority of Americans are more conservative than not.

It muddies the water when you bring issues like healthcare, welfare, etc. etc. etc. into it because conservatives and liberals will see these as different. Conservatives might easily see it desirable to make healthcare available for every American and if poll question is that, then that will be scored a 'liberal' point of view. However, if you ask the same person whether the Federal government should provide it or mandate it, that person will answer an adament NO. Which puts him squarely right of center.

Most Americans are more conservative than liberal.

 

[IndependentBear]

"They are the silent majority of voters.... They are sick and tired of both parties. They want to get back to the republic form of government. " This was how it started out. I don't know about the rest of the country but the Tea Party in Virginia's 2nd district, which includes Virginia Beach, sold out to a Republican who donated $1,000 to Barack Obama's campaign in March 2008. And you wonder why I sometimes vote Independent. I have yet to hear of a Tea Party organization backing an independent candidate anywhere.

 

[Intense]

"They are the silent majority of voters.... They are sick and tired of both parties. They want to get back to the republic form of government. " This was how it started out. I don't know about the rest of the country but the Tea Party in Virginia's 2nd district, which includes Virginia Beach, sold out to a Republican who donated $1,000 to Barack Obama's campaign in March 2008. And you wonder why I sometimes vote Independent. I have yet to hear of a Tea Party organization backing an independent candidate anywhere.

As Individual's we back who we want. That corruption and sellout thing is a hard fight. We have reason and the ability to communicate in truth on our side. What we do with it, or fail to do with it is on us.

 

[Intense]

I still can't get past Palin supporting McCain. I so much wish, he and Graham would just peddle their bullshit elsewhere.

That said, after primary season is over, realistically, we need to do our best to defeat the most damaging with what and whom we have available.

 

[Foxfyre]

I still can't get past Palin supporting McCain. I so much wish, he and Graham would just peddle their bullshit elsewhere.

That said, after primary season is over, realistically, we need to do our best to defeat the most damaging with what and whom we have available.

Well, on the three main Tea Party issues, McCain is toeing the line. And those who will do that are being forgiven more squishy social issues that the Tea Party is not concerned with.

And she doesn't strike me as one who is fickle in her relationships out of political expediency either. She probably feels duty bound to back up the one who catapulted her onto the national scene.

 

[Intense]

I still can't get past Palin supporting McCain. I so much wish, he and Graham would just peddle their bullshit elsewhere.

That said, after primary season is over, realistically, we need to do our best to defeat the most damaging with what and whom we have available.

Well, on the three main Tea Party issues, McCain is toeing the line. And those who will do that are being forgiven more squishy social issues that the Tea Party is not concerned with.

And she doesn't strike me as one who is fickle in her relationships out of political expediency either. She probably feels duty bound to back up the one who catapulted her onto the national scene.

I didn't trust Him then and I don't trust him now. Watch out for that progressive streak in both parties. In relation to Sara, only sometimes, there is that volume control and mute thing. (It's a Guy thing). What we do need to remember is to circle the wagons after primary season, work with the best we have then. To undermine the Primaries is wrong.

 

[Foxfyre]

I still can't get past Palin supporting McCain. I so much wish, he and Graham would just peddle their bullshit elsewhere.

That said, after primary season is over, realistically, we need to do our best to defeat the most damaging with what and whom we have available.

Well, on the three main Tea Party issues, McCain is toeing the line. And those who will do that are being forgiven more squishy social issues that the Tea Party is not concerned with.

And she doesn't strike me as one who is fickle in her relationships out of political expediency either. She probably feels duty bound to back up the one who catapulted her onto the national scene.

I didn't trust Him then and I don't trust him now. Watch out for that progressive streak in both parties. In relation to Sara, only sometimes, there is that volume control and mute thing. (It's a Guy thing). What we do need to remember is to circle the wagons after primary season, work with the best we have then. To undermine the Primaries is wrong.

I have mixed emotions about it too. The current Administration has been so destructive I don't know how much more of it we can take. And even unreliable Republicans and full blown RINOs have been better than the Democrats on all economic issues lately. So its tempting just to just improve on the status quo and try to stop the runaway train.

But the Tea Partiers are a bit more dogmatic that liberalism is the certain road to ruin and liberal lite isn't enough better to tolerate any more. They're ready to turn it around completely. And I think they're thinking if not us, who? If not now, when?

On the Top Priorities thread awhile ago I posted the lastest Rasmussen 'trust' poll and as of this week, the GOP is beating the Democrats as most trusted on every single issue. Some only marginally, but on every single issue. At the time President Obama was inaugerated last year, the Democrats pretty much had an edge on every single one of those issues.

The Tea Parties are making a difference. I just hope their strategy is effective.

(P.S. McCain was not my choice for GOP nominee either, but we'd be far better off if he was President now I think. But who knows?)

 

[Intense]

Well, on the three main Tea Party issues, McCain is toeing the line. And those who will do that are being forgiven more squishy social issues that the Tea Party is not concerned with.

And she doesn't strike me as one who is fickle in her relationships out of political expediency either. She probably feels duty bound to back up the one who catapulted her onto the national scene.

I didn't trust Him then and I don't trust him now. Watch out for that progressive streak in both parties. In relation to Sara, only sometimes, there is that volume control and mute thing. (It's a Guy thing). What we do need to remember is to circle the wagons after primary season, work with the best we have then. To undermine the Primaries is wrong.

I have mixed emotions about it too. The current Administration has been so destructive I don't know how much more of it we can take. And even unreliable Republicans and full blown RINOs have been better than the Democrats on all economic issues lately. So its tempting just to just improve on the status quo and try to stop the runaway train.

But the Tea Partiers are a bit more dogmatic that liberalism is the certain road to ruin and liberal lite isn't enough better to tolerate any more. They're ready to turn it around completely. And I think they're thinking if not us, who? If not now, when?

On the Top Priorities thread awhile ago I posted the lastest Rasmussen 'trust' poll and as of this week, the GOP is beating the Democrats as most trusted on every single issue. Some only marginally, but on every single issue. At the time President Obama was inaugerated last year, the Democrats pretty much had an edge on every single one of those issues.

The Tea Parties are making a difference. I just hope their strategy is effective.

(P.S. McCain was not my choice for GOP nominee either, but we'd be far better off if he was President now I think. But who knows?)

If we are fooling ourselves, it is not going to matter. We will then know for sure the kind of times we would be living in. There is only one consideration then, allegiance or convenience. Think Madison "Memorial and Remonstrance" or "Revelation". Have you checked out the Thoreau quote on my signature?


P.S. I supported Romney too.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

I still can't get past Palin supporting McCain. I so much wish, he and Graham would just peddle their bullshit elsewhere.

That said, after primary season is over, realistically, we need to do our best to defeat the most damaging with what and whom we have available.

Think about it. It was the best thing she could do. McCain elevated her to VP slot so her only choice was to come out for him, how could she not?

If she endorsed JD, she's branded undependable and ungrateful by the Republican Establishment. We know she held her nose and endorsed him the same way I held mine and voted for McCain

 

[IndependentBear]

The left sure is focused on race.

Hmmmm.

That's because they know they are going to get spanked in November. They are in panic mode. Same thing happened in 1994. Same thing happened every time they had a losing battle on their hands. You'd think they would try a new trick considering that the old one does not work and has not worked.

It's the definition of insanity: doing the same thing the same way and expecting a different result.

 

[Foxfyre]

I still can't get past Palin supporting McCain. I so much wish, he and Graham would just peddle their bullshit elsewhere.

That said, after primary season is over, realistically, we need to do our best to defeat the most damaging with what and whom we have available.

Think about it. It was the best thing she could do. McCain elevated her to VP slot so her only choice was to come out for him, how could she not?

If she endorsed JD, she's branded undependable and ungrateful by the Republican Establishment. We know she held her nose and endorsed him the same way I held mine and voted for McCain

And again, on the three main issues promoted by the Tea Partiers, McCain is on the same road at this time. So she really has no grounds to oppose him. The Tea Partiers have been faithful to keep ideology, partisanship, and personal burrs under the saddle out of the process, so I think she is just being true to that principle.

She is absolutely not shilling for the GOP, but like most of us in the Tea Party movement, she is realistic that candidates are going to have to affiliate with one of the major parties in order to get elected. And since the GOP is at least wooing the Tea Partiers while the Democrats are doing their damndest to demonize the Tea Partiers, the GOP is the logical party to mold into the Tea Party motif.

 

[manifold]

The tea party wouldn't even exist if Hillary was elected.

It's not coincidental that a collection of previously apolitical, illiterate backwater fuckwads suddenly became interested in politics after a black man was elected president. I'm not saying all tea partiers are racist, just the vast majority.

 

[Foxfyre]

The tea party wouldn't even exist if Hillary was elected.

It's not coincidental that a collection of previously apolitical, illiterate backwater fuckwads suddenly became interested in politics after a black man was elected president. I'm not saying all tea partiers are racist, just the vast majority.

It just depends Mani. The Tea Partiers were not happy campers under Bush, but the deficits were coming down, the war in Iraq and Afghanistan were winding down, and there wasn't much impetus there for a major uprising. The housing bubble crash in late 2008 was a huge wakeup call though, the TARP bailout was absolutely totally offensive to almost all fiscal conservatives, but some were saying it had to be.

So while we were still reeling from that, Obama is elected, and we are hit in rapid succession with an indefensible appropriations bill, the takeover of financial organizations and auto industries, and a stimulus package that threatened to mortgage the futures of the next several generations of Americans. And THAT is what generated the Tea Party spirit and movements.

The other stuff (Cap & Trade, Healthcare, etc. etc. etc.) is just fuel to keep it going.

I definitely supported Hillary for the Democrat nomination, not because I respect or appreciate her politics, but at least she is an American in spirit as well as name, and she did not bring the cloak and dagger methodology or soft Marxism into the process as it was obvious, to me anyway, that Obama was likely to do.

But would she have been as crazy and potentially destructive as she was when Bill Clinton was first elected? She cost him the House and Senate in the very first two years of his administration.

Fact is we don't know. I suspect, however, that she would have supported Pelosi and Reid in that unconcionable stimulus package and that appropriations bill, and we would have had a Tea Party 'uprising' anyway.

 

[Greenbeard]

I definitely supported Hillary for the Democrat nomination, not because I respect or appreciate her politics, but at least she is an American in spirit as well as name, and she did not bring the cloak and dagger methodology or soft Marxism into the process as it was obvious, to me anyway, that Obama was likely to do.

Where did they differ substantively on the issues during that campaign? If you can't articulate very clearly how Candidate Obama's policy positions displayed a "soft Marxism" that Candidate Clinton's didn't, I imagine that "American in spirit as well as name" slip is about as telling as it gets.

 

[Foxfyre]

I definitely supported Hillary for the Democrat nomination, not because I respect or appreciate her politics, but at least she is an American in spirit as well as name, and she did not bring the cloak and dagger methodology or soft Marxism into the process as it was obvious, to me anyway, that Obama was likely to do.

Where did they differ substantively on the issues during that campaign? If you can't articulate very clearly how Candidate Obama's policy positions displayed a "soft Marxism" that Candidate Clinton's didn't, I imagine that "American in spirit as well as name" slip is about as telling as it gets.

I can't imagine Hillary Clinton going around the world genuflecting to and apologizing to everybody short of the Burger King for the sins of America. I can't see Hillary Clinton seizing control of financial organizations and auto companies. I can't see Hillary Clinton being oblivious to the intense public opposition to a massive piece of legislation and pushing it through without anybody, including herself, knowing much about what was in it. I can't see Hillary Clinton surrounding herself with some of the most extreme, radical, Marxism sympathisers as czars, advisers, and key staffers. I can't see Hillary Clinton intentionally implementing policy that creates additional chaos and refusing to consider policy or legislation that all the experts tell her will make things better in an almost desperate economy.

For specifics, I will refer you a series of essays Thomas Sowell wrote just ahead of the 2008 election. He didn't hit on everything, but he pretty well condensed a lot of it into those back to back essays explaining to us what we were getting in a President Obama. I thought he was being overly dramatic for effect at the time, though he isn't generally prone to that sort of thing. Turned out, he was dead on accurate.