Would the founders be proud of "todays America"?

[Vox]

Facts About Abortion: U.S. Abortion Statistics

All of you need to read.

no, all you need to read is census.gov.

if you understand statistics.

if you are too dumb - you need someone to chew them up for you.
which means the chewer will add their own spices and the result might be the opposite from what pure statistics show.

 

[nodoginnafight]

Facts About Abortion: U.S. Abortion Statistics

All of you need to read.

no, all you need to read is census.gov.

if you understand statistics.

if you are too dumb - you need someone to chew them up for you.
which means the chewer will add their own spices and the result might be the opposite from what pure statistics show.

Kinda disgusting but otherwise a pretty good (imho) analogy

 

[Old Rocks]

Do I think so? ABSOLUTELY NOT
Liberalism and Unions have ruined America
We are steadily going against EVERYTHING this country was founded for
I would LOVE to grow up in my parents age or maybe even my grandparents to really get a glimpse of the great America
Luckily, I am still able to hear stories from my grandmother about the past
If you think they would be proud, PLEASE give logical reasons
Yahoo!

When this nation was founded you could vote provided you were white, over 21, and owned land. Slavery was common in most of the nation.

Today, we have extended voting rights to all citizens, after much blood and a hundred years of broken promises, slavery, overt or covert, is no longer allowed in this nation.

Most of us live a life that not even a very rich man could imagine at that time. Any kind of fruit at any time of the year. Air conditioned homes, cool in the summer and warm in winter.

No, I do not want to go back to the nation we were in 1776, or even the nation we were in 1956. This is a much better nation now than in those times.

Of course, there will always be those bellyaching about how "the good old days" were better. And there will be those of us old enough and with enough education and experiance to point out that those "good old days" never did exist as they describe them.

 

[nodoginnafight]

Do I think so? ABSOLUTELY NOT
Liberalism and Unions have ruined America
We are steadily going against EVERYTHING this country was founded for
I would LOVE to grow up in my parents age or maybe even my grandparents to really get a glimpse of the great America
Luckily, I am still able to hear stories from my grandmother about the past
If you think they would be proud, PLEASE give logical reasons
Yahoo!

I think it would be a mixed bag. I think they would enjoy seeing their ideas about equality and tolerance become much more of a reality than those ideals were in their day.

I think they would marvel at the transformation of our nation from mostly rural/agrarian society into a more urbanized society.

I think they would not be able to believe some of the numbers - in terms of what we spend.

The original poster seems to share in that common delusion that "the good old days" were actually good days for some people other than rich, white, Christian men.

 

[Old Rocks]

Liberals have murdered 30,000,000 American babies.....didn't want you to miss that one.

You think there was no abortion at the time of the founders?

I cannot imagine that they were being done to married women.

I cannot imagine that you are that stupid.

 

[nodoginnafight]

You think there was no abortion at the time of the founders?

I cannot imagine that they were being done to married women.

I cannot imagine that you are that stupid.

An unrealistic and highly romanticized view of the past is generally what prompts wistful yearnings for "the good old days."

 

[Contumacious]

You think there was no abortion at the time of the founders?

Yep.

Abortion in Colonial Times

During colonial times, the fetus was thought to be viable only after the time of "quickening."1 One of the men, James Wilson, who helped frame the Constitution, held that the right to life after quickening was protected by English common law. Quickening is a medical term that denotes the point at which the fetus moves in the mother's womb. This concept was upheld throughout the entire history of the U.S., with exception to independent states that adopted legislation to legalize abortion or not, on a state by state basis. These statutes began to surface as early as the first and second decade of the 1800s."

The word "quick" originally meant "alive". Historically, quickening has sometimes been considered to be the beginning of the possession of "individual life" by the fetus. British legal scholar William Blackstone explained the subject of quickening in the eighteenth century, relative to feticide and abortion:

Life… begins in contemplation of law as soon as an infant is able to stir in the mother's womb. For if a woman is quick with child, and by a potion, or otherwise, killeth it in her womb; or if any one beat her, whereby the child dieth in her body, and she is delivered of a dead child; this, though not murder, was by the ancient law homicide or manslaughter. But at present it is not looked upon in quite so atrocious a light, though it remains a very heinous misdemeanor.[5]

Nevertheless, quickening was only one of several standards that were used historically to determine when the right to life attaches to a fetus. According to the "ancient law" mentioned by Blackstone, another standard was formation of the fetus, which occurs weeks before quickening. Henry de Bracton explained the ancient law, about five hundred years before Blackstone:

.

 

[nodoginnafight]

So if it never happened - how come they had to start passing laws against it?

 

[Vox]

You think there was no abortion at the time of the founders?

I cannot imagine that they were being done to married women.

I cannot imagine that you are that stupid.

It is you, who are stupid beyond imagination.

Abortion is potentially lethal procedure. And very often resulting in very serious complications. medical advances of the last 60 years made it much more safe, but in those times it was very often a potential death sentence even in the hands of a surgeon - there were no antibiotics, if you remember this minor fact and any interference with the uterus ( even a normal childbirth) was potentially fatal for a woman because of the infection - you want to be reminded of maternal mortality? and childbirth is NORMAL not invasive artificial procedure.

 

[Vox]

there were no mass abortions for much more palpable reasons - severe risks of morbidity and mortality of the women undergoing it. If the woman was married only an idiot would risk an abortion and make himself a widower and his children - orphans. Unmarried woman - that is another story. Illegal abortions could be traced back to very old times, but unmarried woman if she could pay for illegal procedure usually could decide to take a risk for herself.

 

[rdean]

Do I think so? ABSOLUTELY NOT
Liberalism and Unions have ruined America
We are steadily going against EVERYTHING this country was founded for
I would LOVE to grow up in my parents age or maybe even my grandparents to really get a glimpse of the great America
Luckily, I am still able to hear stories from my grandmother about the past
If you think they would be proud, PLEASE give logical reasons
Yahoo!

When this nation was founded you could vote provided you were white, over 21, and owned land. Slavery was common in most of the nation.

Today, we have extended voting rights to all citizens, after much blood and a hundred years of broken promises, slavery, overt or covert, is no longer allowed in this nation.

Most of us live a life that not even a very rich man could imagine at that time. Any kind of fruit at any time of the year. Air conditioned homes, cool in the summer and warm in winter.

No, I do not want to go back to the nation we were in 1776, or even the nation we were in 1956. This is a much better nation now than in those times.

Of course, there will always be those bellyaching about how "the good old days" were better. And there will be those of us old enough and with enough education and experiance to point out that those "good old days" never did exist as they describe them.

And we have to be "on guard" against those who want to go back to the "good old days". They are more dangerous to this country than Hitler, Stalin or al Qaeda.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Facts About Abortion: U.S. Abortion Statistics

All of you need to read.

no, all you need to read is census.gov.

if you understand statistics.

if you are too dumb - you need someone to chew them up for you.
which means the chewer will add their own spices and the result might be the opposite from what pure statistics show.

Horse crap, son. My cite is fine and the stats are accurate. census.gov, while good, does not clearly explain why stats are off because some states (like CA) refuse to give complete reports if it all.

Now quit being ignorant of the matter.

 

[JakeStarkey]

there were no mass abortions for much more palpable reasons - severe risks of morbidity and mortality of the women undergoing it. If the woman was married only an idiot would risk an abortion and make himself a widower and his children - orphans. Unmarried woman - that is another story. Illegal abortions could be traced back to very old times, but unmarried woman if she could pay for illegal procedure usually could decide to take a risk for herself.

The poster above is clearly not well versed in abortion history and is best ignored by right, center, and left.

 

[nodoginnafight]

I think arguing about how our founding fathers felt about abortion is a bit silly.

I'm personally against abortion but I don't remember seeing any views on the issue expressed by our founding fathers. I know there is a strong temptation to believe that our own personal views were shared by our founders and that somehow makes our own views more valid or something.

It's just a fantasy of self promotion.

Our founders were brilliant and courageous. But they were far from perfect. If you want to argue that the United States of America should be relegated to an 18th Century society, you're dipping your bucket in a dry well here.

 

[Vox]

Facts About Abortion: U.S. Abortion Statistics

All of you need to read.

no, all you need to read is census.gov.

if you understand statistics.

if you are too dumb - you need someone to chew them up for you.
which means the chewer will add their own spices and the result might be the opposite from what pure statistics show.

Horse crap, son. My cite is fine and the stats are accurate. census.gov, while good, does not clearly explain why stats are off because some states (like CA) refuse to give complete reports if it all.

Now quit being ignorant of the matter.

"daddy", I have my own brains and understand statistics just fine.

but you are allowed to have your own choice to eat crap somebody chewed for you - I don't care

 

[Vox]

there were no mass abortions for much more palpable reasons - severe risks of morbidity and mortality of the women undergoing it. If the woman was married only an idiot would risk an abortion and make himself a widower and his children - orphans. Unmarried woman - that is another story. Illegal abortions could be traced back to very old times, but unmarried woman if she could pay for illegal procedure usually could decide to take a risk for herself.

The poster above is clearly not well versed in abortion history and is best ignored by right, center, and left.

"daddy" you are quite ignorant on everything you so pompous trying to preach about

 

[JakeStarkey]

Vox, you can post credible evidence. I would suggest it because you can spout and pout and be a little tea pot all you want, but you clearly are ignorant on this matter.

 

[Vox]

I think arguing about how our founding fathers felt about abortion is a bit silly.

I'm personally against abortion but I don't remember seeing any views on the issue expressed by our founding fathers. I know there is a strong temptation to believe that our own personal views were shared by our founders and that somehow makes our own views more valid or something.

It's just a fantasy of self promotion.

Our founders were brilliant and courageous. But they were far from perfect. If you want to argue that the United States of America should be relegated to an 18th Century society, you're dipping your bucket in a dry well here.

The main reason abortion was not allowed before the era of antibiotics are medical reasons.
It is a very risky procedure without them

 

[JakeStarkey]

I think arguing about how our founding fathers felt about abortion is a bit silly.

I'm personally against abortion but I don't remember seeing any views on the issue expressed by our founding fathers. I know there is a strong temptation to believe that our own personal views were shared by our founders and that somehow makes our own views more valid or something.

It's just a fantasy of self promotion.

Our founders were brilliant and courageous. But they were far from perfect. If you want to argue that the United States of America should be relegated to an 18th Century society, you're dipping your bucket in a dry well here.

The main reason abortion was not allowed before the era of antibiotics are medical reasons.
It is a very risky procedure without them

Women have always received abortions back when and now. Your comment merely reveals how silly you are that anyone would take your word as credible on the subject.

 

[Vox]

Vox, you can post credible evidence. I would suggest it because you can spout and pout and be a little tea pot all you want, but you clearly are ignorant on this matter.

You are so dumb you do not know when antibiotics were first discovered by Fleming?

WOW.

I can post the whole textbooks of pharmacology,microbiology and obstetrics here, but it won't change you level of stupidity.