Would it curb mass shootings if most men had concealed carry permits.

[Andylusion]

If the majority of the men in the shopping center in El Paso were armed, would it have reduced the damage done there? In the Old West, the murder rate was actually considerably lower than it is now nationwide. We should make firearm training mandatory for all men 18 and older.

Why not most women? Or most minorities?

Men means men. We don't see the world in terms of "I'm a man, and you are a black person.". Men includes..... all men.

Why are you being racists? Why do you have to divide the group of people who are 'men', into sub-groups that you look at only due to their race?

Stop being racists.

As for women, I'd love to get all women armed. I just have a hard time convincing them. "Well what if it falls out of my purse and shoots and kills someone?" is what I've been told. I'm like.... safety switch? Use it?

 

[Andylusion]

If the majority of the men in the shopping center in El Paso were armed, would it have reduced the damage done there? In the Old West, the murder rate was actually considerably lower than it is now nationwide. We should make firearm training mandatory for all men 18 and older.

No.

Why?

Because most people are not living in the fantasy land the right wing believe exists via watching way too much television and listening to far too much NRA propaganda

The Clackamas Town Center shooting

Two people were killed and a third was seriously wounded in Clackamas County, Oregon, when Jacob Roberts opened fire in a local shopping mall. Nick Meli, a shopper in the mall, drew a personally owned firearm on Roberts, who then retreated. Meli did not fire his weapon, for fear of striking bystanders.

The Golden Market shooting

The details are murky but according to reports, a man entered a Golden Market in Virginia in 2009 and began firing a gun. He shot and wounded the clerk and then began firing at patrons inside. He ran out of ammo and was attempting to reload when he was shot, wounded, and then subdued by a permit holder who happened to be in the store.

The New Life Church shooting

A former police officer from Minnesota named Jeanne Assam was at church when a 24-year-old gunman named Matthew Murray began firing at parishioners in the parking lot. Murray claimed two victims before Assam opened fire on him with her personally owned concealed weapon. After receiving multiple hits from Assam, Murray then shot himself.

The Parker Middle School dance shooting

Andrew Wurst showed up to his middle school dance with his .25-caliber pistol. He fired it, killing a teacher, wounding a second one, and injuring two students. The 14-year-old's shoot-out lasted about 20 minutes. It was ended when James Strand, the owner of the banquet hall the dance was happening in, confronted Wurst with his personal shotgun. He ordered Wurst to drop his weapon and held the teenager in place for 11 minutes before finally getting him to drop the weapon and lie on the ground, and then searched him for other weapons.

(I personally don't like the idea of stopping a shooter with a shotgun in a confined space, like a dance floor.... but it makes the case)

The Pearl High School shooting

Luke Woodham fatally stabbed and bludgeoned his mother and went on to kill two students and injure seven others at his high school. Woodham was stopped by Assistant Principal Joel Myrick, a U.S. Army Reserve commander, who detained Woodham by using a .45 caliber semi-automatic pistol he kept in his truck, until authorities could show up.

And these of course are just examples of private armed citizens stopping mass shootings. It doesn't include the thousands of individual crimes stopped each year by armed citizens.

And I also skipped over off-duty police who stop crimes all the time.

You are the one living in a fantasy world.
Most of the time a shooter confronted by one single armed citizen, will back down. And like the Town Center shooting, just simply having a gun alone, is enough to make the shooter back down, without even firing a shot.

 

[bendog]

If the majority of the men in the shopping center in El Paso were armed, would it have reduced the damage done there? In the Old West, the murder rate was actually considerably lower than it is now nationwide. We should make firearm training mandatory for all men 18 and older.

And yet mandatory health insurance somehow offends you. Odd.

He never said anything about mandatory carry.

You're going too far.

.

Trump already went there.

As for the thread, there are a bit over 28 million in Texas and over 1 million CCP, so pardon me if I shit on the thread.

 

[Bootney Lee Farnsworth]

If the majority of the men in the shopping center in El Paso were armed, would it have reduced the damage done there? In the Old West, the murder rate was actually considerably lower than it is now nationwide. We should make firearm training mandatory for all men 18 and older.

And yet mandatory health insurance somehow offends you. Odd.

He never said anything about mandatory carry.

You're going too far.

.

Trump already went there.

As for the thread, there are a bit over 28 million in Texas and over 1 million CCP, so pardon me if I shit on the thread.

And El Paso is at least 600 miles from Dallas or Houston.

Yorba Linda is in California.

.

 

[RandomPoster]

If the majority of the men in the shopping center in El Paso were armed, would it have reduced the damage done there? In the Old West, the murder rate was actually considerably lower than it is now nationwide. We should make firearm training mandatory for all men 18 and older.

Interesting... what was the murder rate back in the old west? Would love to see that stats that led to that statement

The Wild West was Much Safer than New York at its Tamest

Myth busting the Wild West.

In the cowboy towns that epitomized the Wild West: “Abilene, Ellsworth, Wichita, Dodge City, and Caldwell, for the years from 1870 to 1885, there were only 45 total homicides. This equates to a rate of approximately 1 murder per 100,000 residents per year”.

https://www.amazon.com/Frontier-Violence-Another-Galaxy-Books/dp/0195020987/?tag=usmb-20

Measured by murder rate, in 2007 New York was 6 times; DC, 31 times; Newark, 37 times and Baltimore, a staggering 45 times more wild than the Wild Wild West.

DC – 183 Murders (31 per 100,000 residents)
New York – 494 Murders (6 per 100,000 residents)
Baltimore – 281 Murders (45 per 100,000 residents)
Newark – 104 Murders (37 per 100,000 residents)

 

[Brain357]

If the majority of the men in the shopping center in El Paso were armed, would it have reduced the damage done there? In the Old West, the murder rate was actually considerably lower than it is now nationwide. We should make firearm training mandatory for all men 18 and older.

It was TX so the majority probably did carry, didn’t help.

 

[Lesh]

In Dayton 9 people died and over 20 shot in THIRTY seconds...so in answer to the OP


NO

 

[Bootney Lee Farnsworth]

If the majority of the men in the shopping center in El Paso were armed, would it have reduced the damage done there? In the Old West, the murder rate was actually considerably lower than it is now nationwide. We should make firearm training mandatory for all men 18 and older.

It was TX so the majority probably did carry, didn’t help.

In El Paso?

.

 

[Bootney Lee Farnsworth]

In Dayton 9 people died and over 20 shot in THIRTY seconds...so in answer to the OP


NO

And armed police ended it in short order.

No armed civilian was involved.


.

 

[22lcidw]

If the majority of the men in the shopping center in El Paso were armed, would it have reduced the damage done there? In the Old West, the murder rate was actually considerably lower than it is now nationwide. We should make firearm training mandatory for all men 18 and older.

White men only. Those Mexicans … President Trump said they shouldn't get guns. I suppose the legals could, but what if an illegal had a gun and we coundn't tell him from one of the legal ones. Chaos. (-:

You're a Prog. This is all on you. The new normal is not excellence but "qualified".

 

[Terri4Trump]

If the majority of the men in the shopping center in El Paso were armed, would it have reduced the damage done there? In the Old West, the murder rate was actually considerably lower than it is now nationwide. We should make firearm training mandatory for all men 18 and older.

To heck with concealed. Carry UN-concealed.

Open carry law now in effect in Texas

 

[Rigby5]

If the majority of the men in the shopping center in El Paso were armed, would it have reduced the damage done there? In the Old West, the murder rate was actually considerably lower than it is now nationwide. We should make firearm training mandatory for all men 18 and older.

It was TX so the majority probably did carry, didn’t help.

I lived in Houston for about a year and a half, and did not see a single open carry.
So I think they are much more rare than people would assume.

 

[Rigby5]

In Dayton 9 people died and over 20 shot in THIRTY seconds...so in answer to the OP


NO

An armed population is still always going to be better than waiting 20 minutes for the police to arrive.

 

[xyz]

If the majority of the men in the shopping center in El Paso were armed, would it have reduced the damage done there? In the Old West, the murder rate was actually considerably lower than it is now nationwide. We should make firearm training mandatory for all men 18 and older.

Interesting... what was the murder rate back in the old west? Would love to see that stats that led to that statement

The Wild West was Much Safer than New York at its Tamest

Myth busting the Wild West.

In the cowboy towns that epitomized the Wild West: “Abilene, Ellsworth, Wichita, Dodge City, and Caldwell, for the years from 1870 to 1885, there were only 45 total homicides. This equates to a rate of approximately 1 murder per 100,000 residents per year”.

https://www.amazon.com/Frontier-Violence-Another-Galaxy-Books/dp/0195020987/?tag=usmb-20

Measured by murder rate, in 2007 New York was 6 times; DC, 31 times; Newark, 37 times and Baltimore, a staggering 45 times more wild than the Wild Wild West.

DC – 183 Murders (31 per 100,000 residents)
New York – 494 Murders (6 per 100,000 residents)
Baltimore – 281 Murders (45 per 100,000 residents)
Newark – 104 Murders (37 per 100,000 residents)

Dueling was still legal in some states at that time, and there was no federal law against it. There were also some territories there I believe.

 

[Bootney Lee Farnsworth]

If the majority of the men in the shopping center in El Paso were armed, would it have reduced the damage done there? In the Old West, the murder rate was actually considerably lower than it is now nationwide. We should make firearm training mandatory for all men 18 and older.

It was TX so the majority probably did carry, didn’t help.

I lived in Houston for about a year and a half, and did not see a single open carry.
So I think they are much more rare than people would assume.

Texas just passed open carry a few years ago.

.

 

[Missouri_Mike]

In Dayton 9 people died and over 20 shot in THIRTY seconds...so in answer to the OP


NO

When seconds count the police are minutes away. At what number or seconds do you think those victims wish someone had a gun to stop this guy? Third victim, 10 seconds in? Or the ninth at 30 seconds?

 

[Missouri_Mike]

If the majority of the men in the shopping center in El Paso were armed, would it have reduced the damage done there? In the Old West, the murder rate was actually considerably lower than it is now nationwide. We should make firearm training mandatory for all men 18 and older.

Men, women, anyone over 18 with basic training.

Do we still have hunter training anywhere? It was a gun safety class you had to take to get a tag.

 

[candycorn]

If the majority of the men in the shopping center in El Paso were armed, would it have reduced the damage done there? In the Old West, the murder rate was actually considerably lower than it is now nationwide. We should make firearm training mandatory for all men 18 and older.

It was TX so the majority probably did carry, didn’t help.

I’ll take issue with that. The majority probably wasn’t carrying. But Texas being the shithole that Texas is, the only thing those fecal swans have to be proud of is stupid rules like being able to carry a gun in church. I doubt a majority was armed but I doubt the shooter cared one way or the other. If you’re going to add to the misery of the miserable people in the union’s most miserable state…you have to calculate that a lot of them will be armed. What else do they have?

 

[Lesh]

In Dayton 9 people died and over 20 shot in THIRTY seconds...so in answer to the OP


NO

When seconds count the police are minutes away. At what number or seconds do you think those victims wish someone had a gun to stop this guy? Third victim, 10 seconds in? Or the ninth at 30 seconds?

Listen carefully.

It was OVER in 30 seconds

 

[2aguy]

If the majority of the men in the shopping center in El Paso were armed, would it have reduced the damage done there? In the Old West, the murder rate was actually considerably lower than it is now nationwide. We should make firearm training mandatory for all men 18 and older.

No.

Why?

Because most people are not living in the fantasy land the right wing believe exists via watching way too much television and listening to far too much NRA propaganda

Except real world experience shows you are wrong...

the El Paso shooter, in his manifesto discussed attacking easy targets. Other mass public shooters have stated in person, or from the notes of the dead ones, that they target gun free zones for the easy killing.........

Actual research shows that armed normal people are 94% effective against shooters......

Armed Citizens Are Successful 94% Of The Time At Active Shooter Events [FBI]

Of all the active shooter events there were 33 at which an armed citizen was present. Of those, Armed Citizens were successful at stopping the Active shooter 75.8% of the time (25 incidents) and were successful in reducing the loss of life in an additional 18.2% (6) of incidents. In only 2 of the 33 incidents (6.1%) was the Armed Citizen(s) not helpful in any way in stopping the active shooter or reducing the loss of life.

Thus the headline of our report that Armed Citizens Are Successful 94% Of The Time At Active Shooter Events.


In the 2 incidents at which the armed citizen “failed” to stop or slow the active shooter, one is the previously mentioned incident with hunters. The other is an incident in which the CCWer was shot in the back in a Las Vegas Walmart when he failed to identify that there were 2 Active Shooters involved in the attack. He neglected to identify the one that shot him in the back while he was trying to ambush the other perpetrator.

We also decided to look at the breakdown of events that took place in gun free zones and the relative death toll from events in gun free zones vs non-gun-free zones.

Of the 283 incidents in our data pool, we were unable to identify if the event took place in a gun-free zone in a large number (41%) of the events. Most of the events took place at a business, church, home, or other places at which as a rule of law it is not a gun free zone but potentially could have been declared one by the property owner. Without any information in the FBI study or any indication one way or the other from the news reports, we have indicated that event with a question mark.

If you look at all of the Active Shooter events (pie chart on the top) you see that for those which we have the information, almost twice as many took place in gun free zones than not; but realistically the vast majority of those for which we have no information (indicated as ?) are probably NOT gun free zones.

If you isolate just the events at which 8 or more people were killed the data paints a different picture (pie chart on the bottom). In these incidents, 77.8% took place in a gun-free zone suggesting that gun free zones lead to a higher death rate vs active shooter events in general

=====

One of the final metrics we thought was important to consider is the potential tendency for armed citizens to injure or kill innocent people in their attempt to “save the day.” A common point in political discussions is to point out the lack of training of most armed citizens and the decrease in safety inherent in their presence during violent encounters.

As you can see below, however, at the 33 incidents at which Armed Citizens were present, there were zero situations at which the Armed Citizen injured or killed an innocent person. It never happened.