Wisconsin Collective Bargaining Law is Working

[elvis]

Correlation does not imply causation.

Well actually you could say it doesn't prove causation.

Like correlation doesn't prove that cutting taxes increases revenues, correct?

Why do you always change the subject when you've lost an argument?

NYcuminhisrear can't help it.

 

[grunt11b]

Yes. All teachers are overpaid and underworked and should be crucified. I would bet that alot of you would like all first borns of public school teachers killed. I would bet my life on it.

They work 8 hours a day, 9 months of the year with all holidays and weekends off, how is this over worked "Assuming that you are saying that they are overworked".

 

[St.Blues]

You mean when we cut the pay to teachers, we can pay them less?

Wow. What a revelation.

Didn't you get the memo? Teachers aren't as valuable in the 21st century, because an educated workforce isn't as important in the 21st century.

In Atlanta the teachers falsified grades to make it look like they where actually doing good job, this news just broke the other day, did you not hear about it? These are the teachers that need to go away, not the good teachers.
BTW, my brother is a teacher.

Does he ever mention his feeling towards the union, the Text books etc...

 

[LibocalypseNow]

Government Unions are a menace to society. The sooner they're abolished,the better off this Nation will be. The People are sick of their constant Taxpayer Shakedowns. They do nothing positive for this Nation. Their time is up.

 

[St.Blues]

Government Unions are a menace to society. The sooner they're abolished,the better off this Nation will be. The People are sick of their constant Taxpayer Shakedowns. They do nothing positive for this Nation. Their time is up.

Another Bingo! Way to go bro....... I'm with you all the way.

 

[grunt11b]

Nope. Just espousing the truth. America has a vendetta against teachers. Must be the summers off. Those that are critical could never handle a classroom full of roudy american children of which a large percentage are unruly because american parenting nowadays is garbage.

"Most kids cannot read, write, or spell much less compose a cogent paragraph. "

You're right. Points to total lack of parenting at home.

Holy shit, you just destroyed all credibility with that one. If it's the parents job to be the teacher "Which I can see to a point" why are we paying school teachers then? it is true that parents do have a responsibility to raise their kids right and help any way they can, but it's the educator that teaches them English and proper writing technique and grammar. Are you saying that we can fire the grammar teacher and educate our kids at home instead? because I would be all about that.

 

[Big Fitz]

Well actually you could say it doesn't prove causation.

Like correlation doesn't prove that cutting taxes increases revenues, correct?

Sorry, you have no equivalency.

You have two events happening at the same time without considering other factors. Tax and government spending cuts have been shown to work every single time they've been tried since the 1920's to increase the real power of the economy: the private sector. The great depression and 1970's illustrate completely the disaster of increased government spending while punishing private industry.

So, what other factors do you consider when you claim that Reagan's tax cuts CAUSED increased revenues?

Tell me what those 'other factors' are, and tell me exactly how and why you dismiss them as not causative.

Listening to Thom Hartmann I see.

Reagan's tax cuts allowed more money to be invested safely in this nation by increasing the profit potential, thereby increasing investment which funded the Clinton years.

Here. Argue with the JEC Chief Economist.

The Reagan Tax Cuts: Lessons for Tax Reform

Excerpt:

The Reagan tax cuts, like similar measures enacted in the 1920s and 1960s, showed that reducing excessive tax rates stimulates growth, reduces tax avoidance, and can increase the amount and share of tax payments generated by the rich. High top tax rates can induce counterproductive behavior and suppress revenues, factors that are usually missed or understated in government static revenue analysis. Furthermore, the key assumption of static revenue analysis that economic growth is not affected by tax changes is di sproved by the experience of previous tax reduction programs. There is little reason to expect static revenue analysis to evaluate the economic or distributional effects of current tax reform proposals much better than it evaluated the Reagan tax program 15 years ago.

Now, tell Thom Hartmann and the rest of "Reagan is the source of all evil" club to **** off and allow your brain stem to rest and recuperate.

 

[grunt11b]

Bless the teachers. Now tell us again where the US stands in education? Most kids cannot read, write, or spell much less compose a cogent paragraph.

Teacher's unions not a good thing.

School curriculum's are dictated by the School Board and the State, not the teachers.

It use to be, but nowadays when you have teachers teaching about Politics to 7 year olds, I would say some of the teachers have gone rogue.

 

[Big Fitz]

Well, what do you know..

You mean when we cut the pay to teachers, we can pay them less?

Wow. What a revelation.

Didn't you get the memo? Teachers aren't as valuable in the 21st century, because an educated workforce isn't as important in the 21st century.

Until they quit being told to act like daycare providers and teach usable workplace skills, they aren't that valuable.

Time to quit playing social engineering and start teaching real skills again like the 3 Rs, history, government and economics to create a generation of voters who have the ability to make informed decisions. If we could teach critical thinking early on, I'd be happier still, but I am not one to indulge in vain hope.

 

[Trajan]

BigFitz,

you do have a good point there about people recognizing when the pay is too low. I remember my oldest working during his summers at a gas station. It was his 3rd summer there w/o a raise. I told him to go in and politely state his case for a raise. The owner said no. I promptly went and picked up my son right in the middle of his shift and told the owner that he is officially not working there anymore beginning at that exact time. You should have seen the look on that owners face...it was priceless, awesom as he had to run the show all himself on a very busy weekend. Three days later, the owner calls back and says he can have the raise. My son then went back to work. I taught him a very valuable lesson. If you feel you arent getting fair treatment, find something better no matter what situation you put the employer in.

For this, you earn some posrep. And that is exactly the foundation of why a minimum wage is superfluous. Now, if we as a nation would enforce our immigration laws, lustily, we would stop the undercutting of fair wages, plus allow them to float upwards quicker and keep with the COLI of each area better.

If you don't want to work under WI law, teaching, don't. Nobody's enslaving you to the job. Find another state. Don't want to do the career you love elsewhere, who's the one limiting you now? You are. Move, or put up with it. Simple, isn't it?

when kennedy then wagner of NYC made their moves to sppt. public unionizing it was for one reason and one only- votes.

civil service has a set of codes and laws, the deal on working pre 1960 and after in places that did not till forced to allow public unionization was the implicit exchange or agreement of a job for pretty much life and a decent salary and a decent working environment...history did not start in 1960.

the paradigm changed becasue they was huge voting block waiting to be created and then the entitlement mentality the very thing meany and fdr feared took over, and here we are, see, they have to have it now because they deserve it, why ? because the union says so......

 

[St.Blues]

How's this for you... My nephew is in a private union, his wife a public union.
They both get Cadillac HC... They only need one plan. Each asked to be paid instead of getting the plan. They were both offered $3,000.00 a year as compensation. The cost of the plans are $12000.00 a year. They didn't think $3,000.00 was fair so they keep both. They each earn about $80K a year each. That's $160,000.00 plus benefits and a pension. This is sick! If you spoke with either of them you would see neither deserve that amount of income. They are both told to vote Democrat and they do.

 

[grunt11b]

Next step is to get rid of Government Unions all together. Public Unions are not good for the Country. It's always in their best interest to rape the American Taxpayer. It was a terrible blunder allowing Public Unions in the first place. Private Unions are a different matter. I'm not so opposed to them. But Public Unions gotta go.

The unions where not always a bad thing, communists hijacked the labor movement in this country years ago ,just like they did our political parties. One of their goals in communism was to hijack one or both political parties, I believe they have gotten one of them and are now working on the other pretty good.
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U9biCVVMLq4]YouTube - ‪Beck Proves Union - Communist Affiliations are Rife‬‏[/ame]

 

[St.Blues]

Nope. Just espousing the truth. America has a vendetta against teachers. Must be the summers off. Those that are critical could never handle a classroom full of roudy american children of which a large percentage are unruly because american parenting nowadays is garbage.

"Most kids cannot read, write, or spell much less compose a cogent paragraph. "

You're right. Points to total lack of parenting at home.

Holy shit, you just destroyed all credibility with that one. If it's the parents job to be the teacher "Which I can see to a point" why are we paying school teachers then? it is true that parents do have a responsibility to raise their kids right and help any way they can, but it's the educator that teaches them English and proper writing technique and grammar. Are you saying that we can fire the grammar teacher and educate our kids at home instead? because I would be all about that.

Thank the women's lib movement... That was one of the biggest mistakes in US history.

 

[grunt11b]

When the parents refuse to enforce homework and sue if Lil Johnny doesn't get an A or promoted to the next grade?


You can teach all you want. Doesn't mean it's gonna get learned.

Typical "blame the victim" mentality.

Nope....it's more like "blame the teacher" mentality when parents refuse to get involved in their children's education. It used to be that open houses and PTA organizations were overflowing. Now parents view schools as a babystting facility.

The kids who do well in school are the ones whose parents actually get involved, have regular contact with the teacher, make homework a priority at home and punish their kid if they get in trouble at school. THOSE are the kids who perform well in school. If their parents don't give a shit what kind of message does that send?

.

The message that Democrats destroying inner city families for the last 60 years didn't work, well...it worked for the progressive agenda, just not the American way of life. Let's face it, most of this problem is inner city, not your suburbs or country education systems.

 

[Big Fitz]

BigFitz,

you do have a good point there about people recognizing when the pay is too low. I remember my oldest working during his summers at a gas station. It was his 3rd summer there w/o a raise. I told him to go in and politely state his case for a raise. The owner said no. I promptly went and picked up my son right in the middle of his shift and told the owner that he is officially not working there anymore beginning at that exact time. You should have seen the look on that owners face...it was priceless, awesom as he had to run the show all himself on a very busy weekend. Three days later, the owner calls back and says he can have the raise. My son then went back to work. I taught him a very valuable lesson. If you feel you arent getting fair treatment, find something better no matter what situation you put the employer in.

For this, you earn some posrep. And that is exactly the foundation of why a minimum wage is superfluous. Now, if we as a nation would enforce our immigration laws, lustily, we would stop the undercutting of fair wages, plus allow them to float upwards quicker and keep with the COLI of each area better.

If you don't want to work under WI law, teaching, don't. Nobody's enslaving you to the job. Find another state. Don't want to do the career you love elsewhere, who's the one limiting you now? You are. Move, or put up with it. Simple, isn't it?

when kennedy then wagner of NYC made their moves to sppt. public unionizing it was for one reason and one only- votes.

civil service has a set of codes and laws, the deal on working pre 1960 and after in places that did not till forced to allow public unionization was the implicit exchange or agreement of a job for pretty much life and a decent salary and a decent working environment...history did not start in 1960.

the paradigm changed becasue they was huge voting block waiting to be created and then the entitlement mentality the very thing meany and fdr feared took over, and here we are, see, they have to have it now because they deserve it, why ? because the union says so......

You know what the greatest bane is right now though? The end of the baby boom generation that busts the ponzi scheme known as the leftist playbook.

 

[St.Blues]

Like the Clintons always say... get what you can... Disgusting and dangerous.

 

[LibocalypseNow]

Teachers don't have it nearly as bad as they claim. They are by far the biggest whiners in this country. No other Profession bitches as much as they do. All Weekends off,Several Weeks of Holiday time off,and entire Summers off. Yea they have it so bad. No other Professions in this country enjoy the kind of perks Teachers enjoy. Yet Teachers do the most complaining. I and many other Americans are just sick of all their whining. You don't like being a Teacher? Then get the **** out and go find something else to do for a living. No one wants to hear more endless bitching.

And trust me,many other American Workers have it much worse than Teachers do. Many would kill for all Weekends off,Numerous Weeks of Holiday Time off,and entire Summers off. Unions and Democrats have encouraged this Entitlement attitude on the part of Teachers. But most other Americans are completely sick of listening to Teachers whining about everything. They actually have it pretty good. Now it's time for them to just shut up and do their jobs. Enough is enough for God's sake.

 

[grunt11b]

Department of Education, they could cut funding to it and save about $400,000,000,000 a year and noone would miss it or even realize it's gone. Just another big government progressive failure passed into law by a progressive president. Leave education to the states like it is supposed to be.

 

[GHook93]

Bless the teachers. Now tell us again where the US stands in education? Most kids cannot read, write, or spell much less compose a cogent paragraph.

Teacher's unions not a good thing.

Please explain to us how firing teachers and paying the ones you keep less money will improve any of what you just listed.

You have the name of Don'tbestupid, yet you are being stupid and disingenious! Gov Walker said all along if the bill didn't get passed he would have to fire teachers. Now it got passed and teachers ARE NOT getting fired, rather more are getting hired, hence the reduction in pupil per class room. The money isn't going into the HIGHWAY ROBBERY teacher pension plans and into the schools. They aren't receiving free healthcare, rather, like their private sector counterparts, they are required to contribute to their healthcare cost (but at a MUCH lower percentage then their private sector counterparts).

Funny how you will just ignore the fact that this GREAT law allowed a school to go from a $400K deficit to a $1.5 million surplus and instead of firing teachers they are HIRING teachers!

 

[Big Fitz]

oh stop it with that stupid truth stuff.