Wisconsin Collective Bargaining Law is Working

[Big Fitz]

I've still never heard a good reason why ANYONE, public or private, should have their constitutional rights to associate...or the right to freely contract with others? That some conservatives want to go on a tear against the government must mean that tearing up the constitution isn't important.

Find me the right in the constitution to collectively bargain. Freedom of association does not grant that right. The people are regaining control over an out of control government bureaucracy that has gone on too long without oversight and gotten away with much corruption that needs to be undone.

 

[St.Blues]

I've still never heard a good reason why ANYONE, public or private, should have their constitutional rights to associate...or the right to freely contract with others? That some conservatives want to go on a tear against the government must mean that tearing up the constitution isn't important.

Find me the right in the constitution to collectively bargain. Freedom of association does not grant that right. The people are regaining control over an out of control government bureaucracy that has gone on too long without oversight and gotten away with much corruption that needs to be undone.

Bingo!

That movement has gone on for over 100 years.. We'll end it sooner than later.

 

[NYcarbineer]

You think the decline of unionism is good for America? You think it helps the working/middle class? You think busting unions makes life better in working America? More money? Better jobs? A better life for American families? All of that is why you people on the Right are so happy when American unionized labor suffers one defeat after another?

Well, this is really what you've been wishing for, and, apparently, getting:

Congratulations.

Correlation does not imply causation.

Well actually you could say it doesn't prove causation.

Like correlation doesn't prove that cutting taxes increases revenues, correct?

 

[initforme]

Welfare is going to change. Eventually the whole middle class will be on it. Then the plutocracy will be established. I've never collected a day of unemployment or welfare. But I will do that before I work for some slimy corporation for minimum wage.

 

[NYcarbineer]

Bless the teachers. Now tell us again where the US stands in education? Most kids cannot read, write, or spell much less compose a cogent paragraph.

Teacher's unions not a good thing.

Not to mention they are a money machine for the Democrats. No fairness in that...
I'd bet most public union and private union members do not like the unions or the Democrats. They fair of them..

I believe what we are seeing is the beginning of the end of Unions as we have known them.
I also think the welfare system is going to change in a big way.

So when teachers make less money and have fewer benefits,

how is that going to cause kids to learn better?

 

[Trajan]

You think the decline of unionism is good for America? You think it helps the working/middle class? You think busting unions makes life better in working America? More money? Better jobs? A better life for American families? All of that is why you people on the Right are so happy when American unionized labor suffers one defeat after another?

Well, this is really what you've been wishing for, and, apparently, getting:

Congratulations.

that charts means do do, I could probably find a chart speaking to the use of toilet paper going up during super bowl sunday, means squat'....and, there are others way to read that.....

 

[Dr.House]

You think the decline of unionism is good for America? You think it helps the working/middle class? You think busting unions makes life better in working America? More money? Better jobs? A better life for American families? All of that is why you people on the Right are so happy when American unionized labor suffers one defeat after another?

Well, this is really what you've been wishing for, and, apparently, getting:

Congratulations.

Correlation does not imply causation.

Well actually you could say it doesn't prove causation.

Like correlation doesn't prove that cutting taxes increases revenues, correct?

Why do you always change the subject when you've lost an argument?

 

[Big Fitz]

You think the decline of unionism is good for America? You think it helps the working/middle class? You think busting unions makes life better in working America? More money? Better jobs? A better life for American families? All of that is why you people on the Right are so happy when American unionized labor suffers one defeat after another?

Well, this is really what you've been wishing for, and, apparently, getting:

Congratulations.

Correlation does not imply causation.

Well actually you could say it doesn't prove causation.

Like correlation doesn't prove that cutting taxes increases revenues, correct?

Sorry, you have no equivalency.

You have two events happening at the same time without considering other factors. Tax and government spending cuts have been shown to work every single time they've been tried since the 1920's to increase the real power of the economy: the private sector. The great depression and 1970's illustrate completely the disaster of increased government spending while punishing private industry.

 

[Trajan]

please goose, stop it.

the leverage of friendship/ kinship, hey this is my nephew etc...who gets apprentice jobs who gets summer jobs who gets the nod to hire in when they open the books...





I addressed this, what was wrong with how it worked pre union?




I have to say goose whatever it was that you ingested, drank smoked back in the earlier 2 of the last 3 posts you sent me, please have some more. . I am not 30 or 40 or even 50 years old? I am older, ok? And dare say, I have 'been around'. stop selling and stop schilling, please.

there is politics in EVERY institution;

when I was a summer apprentice for a teamster local in Brooklyn for Key Foods ( I was a 'selector' at their warehouse) , I a) got the job because my buddies dad worked in the front office ( he was non union btw), b) I got offered a position full time at the end of summer based on that c) it was ahead of minorities too, black and Puerto Rican whom had been apprenticing for months more than I did and were just as good.

I am sure they didn't call it politics did they?

wanna here what went down at my hiring for my present position? I almost didn't get it, though I was MILES ahead in interview skills and job skills as I found about 6 months ago in a moment just between my manager and myself at lunch as by that time he had realized we were each simpatico ala unions etc. .
SAME SHIT, different union, different sector.

The difference is.....nobody was FIRED to make room for you which is exactly what will happen when you take unions out of it. As I said, what you'll see happen is the boss will come up, say "You're registered to the other political party so you're done here. You're fired!!" And then turn around and hire a political contributor.

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree which is how these threads usually end.

.

lets go back a moment as to a question I posed you never remarked upon or answered; what happened or not before public sector unions came into being?

 

[St.Blues]

Bless the teachers. Now tell us again where the US stands in education? Most kids cannot read, write, or spell much less compose a cogent paragraph.

Teacher's unions not a good thing.

Not to mention they are a money machine for the Democrats. No fairness in that...
I'd bet most public union and private union members do not like the unions or the Democrats. They fair of them..

I believe what we are seeing is the beginning of the end of Unions as we have known them.
I also think the welfare system is going to change in a big way.

So when teachers make less money and have fewer benefits,

how is that going to cause kids to learn better?

Learn better? They leave with what they got....... The dumbing down from the DOE.
Haven't you been watching/reading the news?

The Union members are sellouts.

 

[Dr.House]

Bless the teachers. Now tell us again where the US stands in education? Most kids cannot read, write, or spell much less compose a cogent paragraph.

Teacher's unions not a good thing.

Not to mention they are a money machine for the Democrats. No fairness in that...
I'd bet most public union and private union members do not like the unions or the Democrats. They fair of them..

I believe what we are seeing is the beginning of the end of Unions as we have known them.
I also think the welfare system is going to change in a big way.

So when teachers make less money and have fewer benefits,

how is that going to cause kids to learn better?

WI teachers are not making less money... Nor are they having fewer benefits...

Stop lying...

 

[initforme]

"Not quite since it worked pretty well in Indiana. No reason it won't work in WI and any other State that has the balls to put the private sector unions in their place. "

As the saying goes about Indiana, "A state of low wages and low expectations." Yuppers, thats what we're striving to do. If the collective bargaining bill was about balancing the budget I would be all for it. Giving tax breaks to corporations should NOT have been part of the plan. This is simply to bust up the unions. Funny how some unions were not included in on the bill. If the teachers had backed the gov he wouldnt have touched them. I would hope the snowplow drivers will miss alot of the snow...payed less work less.

 

[grunt11b]

On the other hand, my Governor, DEMOCRAT Andrew Cuomo, NEGOTIATED concessions from the unions, without destroying them, got a good deal, got the budget in order,

and has a 60% approval rating.

But nobody talks about him.

That's because most of us know he only got concessions from the unions because he will be on the 2012 Obama ticket and needed cred and a higher approval rating to help Obama get re-elected. Only the stupid would not be able to see this charade.

 

[thereisnospoon]

Unions vote Democrat.

I know that. YOU know that. But is Lucy Goosey going to admit it?

Nope. Because neither one of you know what you're talking about, as usual. As a whole unions are pretty much split between voting R and D. But since you two children know absolutely nothing about unions or their memberships (where I have more than 30 years experience) I would not expect you to know that.

Consider that 37 percent of Wisconsin union members voted for Republican Gov. Scott Walker—though most now probably regret doing so.

Unions Work to Turn the Tide

.

63 vs 37% is now 50-50? Must be the outcome based education you libs tout talking there.
How do you know they regret voting for Walker? Are you stating that all union members think in lockstep?

 

[NYcarbineer]

Correlation does not imply causation.

Well actually you could say it doesn't prove causation.

Like correlation doesn't prove that cutting taxes increases revenues, correct?

Sorry, you have no equivalency.

You have two events happening at the same time without considering other factors. Tax and government spending cuts have been shown to work every single time they've been tried since the 1920's to increase the real power of the economy: the private sector. The great depression and 1970's illustrate completely the disaster of increased government spending while punishing private industry.

So, what other factors do you consider when you claim that Reagan's tax cuts CAUSED increased revenues?

Tell me what those 'other factors' are, and tell me exactly how and why you dismiss them as not causative.

 

[Big Fitz]

Not to mention they are a money machine for the Democrats. No fairness in that...
I'd bet most public union and private union members do not like the unions or the Democrats. They fair of them..

I believe what we are seeing is the beginning of the end of Unions as we have known them.
I also think the welfare system is going to change in a big way.

So when teachers make less money and have fewer benefits,

how is that going to cause kids to learn better?

WI teachers are not making less money... Nor are they having fewer benefits...

Stop lying...

They're turning more of their foldin' money into benefits.

 

[Trajan]

Unions vote Democrat.

I know that. YOU know that. But is Lucy Goosey going to admit it?

Nope. Because neither one of you know what you're talking about, as usual. As a whole unions are pretty much split between voting R and D. But since you two children know absolutely nothing about unions or their memberships (where I have more than 30 years experience) I would not expect you to know that.

Consider that 37 percent of Wisconsin union members voted for Republican Gov. Scott Walker—though most now probably regret doing so.

Unions Work to Turn the Tide

.

split in donations from the unions to the parties, or split in voting preference?


and, that doesn't prove anything as any politician R or D promised union sppt. has a ready and willing sect that he or she will in return, back rub.

 

[grunt11b]

Well, what do you know..

You mean when we cut the pay to teachers, we can pay them less?

Wow. What a revelation.

Didn't you get the memo? Teachers aren't as valuable in the 21st century, because an educated workforce isn't as important in the 21st century.

In Atlanta the teachers falsified grades to make it look like they where actually doing good job, this news just broke the other day, did you not hear about it? These are the teachers that need to go away, not the good teachers.
BTW, my brother is a teacher.

 

[St.Blues]

On the other hand, my Governor, DEMOCRAT Andrew Cuomo, NEGOTIATED concessions from the unions, without destroying them, got a good deal, got the budget in order,

and has a 60% approval rating.

But nobody talks about him.

That's because most of us know he only got concessions from the unions because he will be on the 2012 Obama ticket and needed cred and a higher approval rating to help Obama get re-elected. Only the stupid would not be able to see this charade.

I don't believe Obama can win. Even with Hillary on the ticket. 43% of the vote at best.
The voter turnout should be at record levels in 2012... Think Tea Party.

 

[Trajan]

Correlation does not imply causation.

Well actually you could say it doesn't prove causation.

Like correlation doesn't prove that cutting taxes increases revenues, correct?

Why do you always change the subject when you've lost an argument?

caught ...again. hes the strawman misdirection King.