William Joyce believes Franklin was merely a secretary

[SpidermanTuba]

Its clear William Joyce believes that Franklin, and the others who wrote the Constitution, did not actually think it up themselves. He believes they did not conceive or design, (otherwise known as frame) the Constitution.

William, if Franklin et. al weren't the ones who conceived of the Constititution, who did? Do you know something about history we're all missing?

 

[manu1959]

Its clear William Joyce believes that Franklin, and the others who wrote the Constitution, did not actually think it up themselves. He believes they did not conceive or design, (otherwise known as frame) the Constitution.

William, if Franklin et. al weren't the ones who conceived of the Constititution, who did? Do you know something about history we're all missing?

do not misrepresent people, it makes you look silly.....and for someone that claims to be one of the two most intelligent people here i think you are doing yourself a disservice...are you not smarter than this?

 

[SpidermanTuba]

do not misrepresent people, it makes you look silly.....and for someone that claims to be one of the two most intelligent people here i think you are doing yourself a disservice...are you not smarter than this?

He did say that the term "framer" was not an appropriate term for referring to those who wrote the Constititution. This is a fact.

The word "frame", in the context in which it is used to describe the writers of the Constititution as "framers", means to design or conceive. This is fact.


Therefore I fail to see how it is a misrepresentation to claim William Joyce believes it inappropriate, if not factually incorrect, to say that the writers of the Constitution conceived and designed it.


Is there a logical flaw in my argument? Words do mean what they mean, do they not? Is WJ simply free to redefine words as he see's fit, adding also that when others use that word, even those that do not know him, they use it using the definition he has developed for it,

or when he uses one, can I make the assumption that he is using the definition of the word as the rest of the Enlish speaking world knows it?

 

[Stephanie]

He did say that the term "framer" was not an appropriate term for referring to those who wrote the Constititution. This is a fact.

The word "frame", in the context in which it is used to describe the writers of the Constititution as "framers", means to design or conceive. This is fact.


Therefore I fail to see how it is a misrepresentation to claim William Joyce believes it inappropriate, if not factually incorrect, to say that the writers of the Constitution conceived and designed it.


Is there a logical flaw in my argument? Words do mean what they mean, do they not? Is WJ simply free to redefine words as he see's fit, adding also that when others use that word, even those that do not know him, they use it using the definition he has developed for it,

or when he uses one, can I make the assumption that he is using the definition of the word as the rest of the Enlish speaking world knows it?

This is what he said and I agree with him.

Who Says They Were 'Framers'?

Listening to the Alito hearings, it seems everyone's agreed that the WRITERS of the Constitution, men who were once called "The Founding Fathers," are now being called "the Framers."

I call for a cessation of use of this term.

Why?

It's liberally biased. To say "framers" is to suggest, as liberals would have it, that the Constitution is a mere "framework," to be filled in by liberal jurisprudence.

But it's not a "framework.


You can also stop picking someone out here to flame.. you should of continued this in the same thread it was posted

 

[manu1959]

He did say that the term "framer" was not an appropriate term for referring to those who wrote the Constititution. This is a fact.

The word "frame", in the context in which it is used to describe the writers of the Constititution as "framers", means to design or conceive. This is fact.

Therefore I fail to see how it is a misrepresentation to claim William Joyce believes it inappropriate, if not factually incorrect, to say that the writers of the Constitution conceived and designed it.

Is there a logical flaw in my argument? Words do mean what they mean, do they not? Is WJ simply free to redefine words as he see's fit, adding also that when others use that word, even those that do not know him, they use it using the definition he has developed for it,

or when he uses one, can I make the assumption that he is using the definition of the word as the rest of the Enlish speaking world knows it?

his arguement is that the term is not being used in the context you state

is he not entitled to his opinion to select a word that he feels is appropriate to convey what he thinks they did? he belives the word founder is more appropriate, most text books in my day called them the founding fathers not framers.

is he not entitled to express an opinion that some attempt to use the word framer to "frame" an argument to allow the constitution to be become a framework and a living document?

why is he not allowed to redefine words.....others do it all the time....i shall refraine from examples .... but i digress .....

when you form your first company and make your first million and forbes puts you on the cover

would you wish to be known as a founder or a framer of the company?

 

[William Joyce]

Its clear William Joyce believes that Franklin, and the others who wrote the Constitution, did not actually think it up themselves. He believes they did not conceive or design, (otherwise known as frame) the Constitution.

William, if Franklin et. al weren't the ones who conceived of the Constititution, who did? Do you know something about history we're all missing?

Most everyone else seems to have gotten my point. You're free to disagree with it, but I'm obviously not saying that Franklin, Madison and the rest did not conceive of, debate and then write the United States Constitution. Of course they did.

What I am saying is that the term "framers" is biased. Just think of the word literally, as in "framing" a house. If you build the frame of a house, it's just wood stalks. The finishing and furnishing is a later process and involves completely different materials, designs, etc.

Liberals are essentially saying that they're free to be the finishers and furnishers with Roe v. Wade, Griswold, etc.

I'm saying they're not.

In other words, I consider Franklin, Madison, Jay, etc. as the FRAMERS, BUILDERS AND FINISHERS of the Constitution.

And really, liberals don't even respect the frame, in my opinion. From FDR onward, they've pretty much torn it down and replaced it. It's this really butt-ugly, gray cinder-block building like out of Communist East Europe circa the 1970s.