CDZ Will you vote against someone or just abstain?

[320 Years of History]

Looking at the preliminary results for "Super Tuesday," it's clear to me that either Mr. Rubio or Mr. Cruz needs to get the heck out of the Republican primary races. Based on the early exit poll results I'm seeing on TV, it's clear that the two of them are cannibalizing each other. One of them needs, IMO, to just take one for the team and withdraw from the race for the sole purpose of ensuring Mr. Trump does not win the Republican primary.

I'm not overwhelmingly keen on any of the major and viable candidates from either party. The one thing I'm certain of is that of the GOP candidates available, I know whom I least like and whom I'm certain to actively vote against if he wins the nomination: Donald Trump.

I have not in any Presidential election ever felt obliged to actually vote for the sake of demonstratively recording my opposition to a candidate. I damn sure will this election cycle if Mr. Trump is the GOP nominee. My only regret is that I live in D.C. and no GOP Presidential candidate is going to win D.C. anyway.

In contrast, if Mr. Cruz or Mr. Rubio wins the nomination, as I feel today, I might actually consider, again for the first time in my vote-eligible life, abstaining. I don't cotton to the idea of abstaining from a major election -- D.C. Mayor, President, Shadow Senator, U.S. Representative, etc. -- because I firmly believe that one who doesn't vote has no right to complain or applaud. Such folks, including me if I don't vote, simply must accept what happens, like it or not.

It's not a matter that nobody but I will know whether I voted; it's that I'll know and that doesn't sit well with me personally. I have to live by my own principles just as much as I would have them be ones to which I subject others. I don't think I'd like going four years without complaining or applauding if I see something worthy of either action. LOL

 

[Auld Phart]

I'm voting against all of them, by staying home

 

[the_human_being]

Looking at the preliminary results for "Super Tuesday," it's clear to me that either Mr. Rubio or Mr. Cruz needs to get the heck out of the Republican primary races. Based on the early exit poll results I'm seeing on TV, it's clear that the two of them are cannibalizing each other. One of them needs, IMO, to just take one for the team and withdraw from the race for the sole purpose of ensuring Mr. Trump does not win the Republican primary.

I'm not overwhelmingly keen on any of the major and viable candidates from either party. The one thing I'm certain of is that of the GOP candidates available, I know whom I least like and whom I'm certain to actively vote against if he wins the nomination: Donald Trump.

I have not in any Presidential election ever felt obliged to actually vote for the sake of demonstratively recording my opposition to a candidate. I damn sure will this election cycle if Mr. Trump is the GOP nominee. My only regret is that I live in D.C. and no GOP Presidential candidate is going to win D.C. anyway.

In contrast, if Mr. Cruz or Mr. Rubio wins the nomination, as I feel today, I might actually consider, again for the first time in my vote-eligible life, abstaining. I don't cotton to the idea of abstaining from a major election -- D.C. Mayor, President, Shadow Senator, U.S. Representative, etc. -- because I firmly believe that one who doesn't vote has no right to complain or applaud. Such folks, including me if I don't vote, simply must accept what happens, like it or not.

It's not a matter that nobody but I will know whether I voted; it's that I'll know and that doesn't sit well with me personally. I have to live by my own principles just as much as I would have them be ones to which I subject others. I don't think I'd like going four years without complaining or applauding if I see something worthy of either action. LOL

Well, we could bring George Bush out of retirement. He could reach across the aisle and even get Hillary and the rest of the Democrats to support his Iraq War. Hell man, Obama can't even land a jet on a carrier.

 

[320 Years of History]

Looking at the preliminary results for "Super Tuesday," it's clear to me that either Mr. Rubio or Mr. Cruz needs to get the heck out of the Republican primary races. Based on the early exit poll results I'm seeing on TV, it's clear that the two of them are cannibalizing each other. One of them needs, IMO, to just take one for the team and withdraw from the race for the sole purpose of ensuring Mr. Trump does not win the Republican primary.

I'm not overwhelmingly keen on any of the major and viable candidates from either party. The one thing I'm certain of is that of the GOP candidates available, I know whom I least like and whom I'm certain to actively vote against if he wins the nomination: Donald Trump.

I have not in any Presidential election ever felt obliged to actually vote for the sake of demonstratively recording my opposition to a candidate. I damn sure will this election cycle if Mr. Trump is the GOP nominee. My only regret is that I live in D.C. and no GOP Presidential candidate is going to win D.C. anyway.

In contrast, if Mr. Cruz or Mr. Rubio wins the nomination, as I feel today, I might actually consider, again for the first time in my vote-eligible life, abstaining. I don't cotton to the idea of abstaining from a major election -- D.C. Mayor, President, Shadow Senator, U.S. Representative, etc. -- because I firmly believe that one who doesn't vote has no right to complain or applaud. Such folks, including me if I don't vote, simply must accept what happens, like it or not.

It's not a matter that nobody but I will know whether I voted; it's that I'll know and that doesn't sit well with me personally. I have to live by my own principles just as much as I would have them be ones to which I subject others. I don't think I'd like going four years without complaining or applauding if I see something worthy of either action. LOL

Well, we could bring George Bush out of retirement. He could reach across the aisle and even get Hillary and the rest of the Democrats to support his Iraq War. Hell man, Obama can't even land a jet on a carrier.

If the alternative is Mr. Trump, fine, repeal the 22nd Amendment and bring him back. LOL Like it or not, at the very least I knew what I could expect from him. Ditto Mssrs. Obama, Clinton, and Bush I. Even Dick Cheney, whom I find deplorable, would be a better pick, IMO.

 

[Desperado]

Will not vote for any Democrat or Rubio, Cruz or Carson, Just rather stay home and not be a part of it.

 

[candycorn]

I've never personally voted against anyone and have believed in whomever I've pulled a lever or punched a card for.

 

[IsaacNewton]

As a little i independent progressive I see the real angst among conservative friends. At least half of them said they would NEVER, and they put the emphasis on it, vote for trump.

I would, as would most Americans I think, like to see a 3rd party person or independent that could garner the election as a REAL outsider and not a member of either party, but trump just doesn't fit this niche in any way. He is in fact hijacking the Republican party. It is quite bizarre.

I only know the conservatives I know will not be voting if he is the candidate, even over their dislike of whoever the Democrats put forth.

They've told me they will wait 4 years if needed. For some of them this is stunning. They never miss an election. And I have noticed some of the conservative radio shows now starting to line up behind trump. Not Mark Levin, but others for sure.

 

[320 Years of History]

As a little i independent progressive I see the real angst among conservative friends. At least half of them said they would NEVER, and they put the emphasis on it, vote for trump.

I would, as would most Americans I think, like to see a 3rd party person or independent that could garner the election as a REAL outsider and not a member of either party, but trump just doesn't fit this niche in any way. He is in fact hijacking the Republican party. It is quite bizarre.

I only know the conservatives I know will not be voting if he is the candidate, even over their dislike of whoever the Democrats put forth.

They've told me they will wait 4 years if needed. For some of them this is stunning. They never miss an election. And I have noticed some of the conservative radio shows now starting to line up behind trump. Not Mark Levin, but others for sure.

I could not agree with you and your conservative friends more. I'm now, and have been for a long time, been an independent. By my principles, I'm probably closer to being a Democrat; in the application of those principles to policy, I'm nowhere near being a Democrat.

For example, while I recognize the need to "lend a helping hand" and have no qualms about giving one, either directly or via my tax dollars, which I don't at all mind being used to help those less fortunate than I, I demand one meet a high bar in order to earn it. I don't have any problem with immigrants -- illegal or legal -- being in the U.S. and living their lives peacefully and harmoniously with U.S. citizens and residents, but I have no desire to use U.S. taxpayer resources to do anything for them other than ship illegal aliens back, alive, to their homeland if/when they make themselves a burden (great or small) on our national, state, or local resources by consuming or requiring anything other than that for which they can pay for using the monetary resources they brought with themselves.


Despite that, and no matter where Mr. Trump says he stands on any issue, the fact is that there is no way I can view him as an outsider. To the contrary he is the single most detestable kind of insider I can identify: he's the kind of insider who buys influence with his wealth and plays one side against the other solely for personal gain. I understand that from a businessperson, and I don't particularly mind that businesses do it, other than that they are so darn successful at doing it, that is, at co-opting legislators and executive branch administrators, often enough to the detriment (or at best non-benefit) of everyone who isn't among their owners and bondholders.

Even if it can be unequivocally established that every political contribution he has made to either party or candidate in the past, which, for the 30 years up to and including 2011, was largely Democrats -- fine, I don't care which party -- in terms of state and federal elections, was for "business purposes"....who are the owners of his business? Donald J. Trump and his immediate family. Period. It's not even as though his company is a widely held corporation and those contributions could have at least benefitted thousands.

What follows is not just me on a rant.
It is purely a collection of Mr. Trump's statements.​

In addition to his purely selfish aims and deeds, the man has shown repeatedly that the only way anything he does or wants to do can be beneficial to me, to you, to anyone is for their financial needs and desires to be very closely aligned with his at a given point in time. If his needs and one's own are aligned "today," great; if his needs and aims change "tomorrow," one is sh*t out of luck and f*cked. Period. We have multiple illustrations of this over the years, but in some cases, one need not have waited even one year for the "flip-flop" to occur:

• Afghanistan -- Literally 180 degree difference in two weeks!
  • October 6, 2015: "We made a terrible mistake getting involved there in the first place. It's a mess, it's a mess and at this point we probably have to (leave U.S. troops in Afghanistan) because that thing will collapse in about two seconds after they leave."
  • October 20, 2015: "Iraq was a disaster. Not Afghanistan, because that's probably where we should have gone in the first place."
• Syrian Refugees -- This time it took a little bit longer to go make it to the completely opposite point of view.
  • September 9, 2015: "I think we should help, but I think we should be very careful because frankly, we have very big problems. We're not gonna have a country if we don't start getting smart."
    
    
    
    
  • September 10, 2015 -- Not 180 degrees yet, but heading there: "I think we should help, but I think we should be very careful because frankly, we have very big problems. We're not gonna have a country if we don't start getting smart."
  • October 3, 2015: "If I win, they're going back."
• Planned Parenthood -- I think this if a 180 degree change in Mr. Trump's position, but really I can't be sure WTF make of this set of remarks individually, nor what to make of them taken in total, which, IMO, is even worse than clearly flip-flopping. I cannot stand ambiguity and vagueness!
  • July 22, 2015: "Absolutely they should be defunded.
  • August 3, 2015: Same position expressed in an interview with Hugh Hewitt.
    
    

• • August 3, 2015: This collection of remarks totally astounds me because I truly have no friggin' idea of what the hell his position is on the matter; I'm not even sure he knows what exactly Planned Parenthood is, does or doesn't do, and yet he's talking about it....Does Mr. Trump even know that federal law prevents the use of taxpayer dollars to pay for abortions in virtually all cases?
    
    "What I would do when the time came, I’d look at the individual things they do, and maybe some of the individual things they do are good. I know a lot of the things are bad. But certainly the abortion aspect of it should not be funded by government, absolutely. I would look at the good aspects of [Planned Parenthood], and I would also look, because I’m sure they do some things properly and good and that are good for women, and I would look at that, and I would look at other aspects also. But we have to take care of women.
    
    
  • August 12, 2015: "They do good things. We have to take care of women. We have to absolutely take care of women. The abortion aspect of Planned Parenthood should not -- absolutely should not -- be funded."
    
  • September 10, 2015: Nearly a month later, Mr. Trump still hasn't bothered to figure out that little of what Planned Parenthood does involved providing abortions. "I am against abortion ... and that is a tremendous amount of the work they do." (Around the 9:00 point of the next video below....)
    
    
    Anyone who doesn't get to watch daytime television absolutely should, in its entirety, watch this video interview with Donald Trump. It is chock full of first hand illustrations of everything that's wrong with Mr. Trump being both a candidate and/or U.S. President....integrity, wishy washiness/ambiguity, ignorance about things of which he speaks, conflicting principles, etc. It's one of the few interviews where the interviewers did sit quietly by and let him get away with the sh*t he said that was not factually accurate. Those women were not having it!
    
    
    
    Say what?!? Defunding abortion at Planned Parenthood constitutes defunding nothing! Forget about whether I think abortions should or should not be federally funded. Do you, Mr. Trump, have the first damn idea of what you are talking about? And Mr. Trump has the nerve to call other people idiots?!? Boy, can that pot call a kettle black!!!
• U.S. Military Spending:
  • August 3, 2015: "I would bring it (military levels) back to where it was at the height because we’re in such trouble."
  • October 4, 2015: "I'm gonna build a military that's gonna be much stronger than it is right now. It's gonna be so strong, nobody's gonna mess with us. But you know what? We can do it for a lot less."
• Going after Islamic State/ISIS:
  • July 8, 2015: Trump noted he would "send troops in" to Iraq and he said he'd "bomb the hell" out of Islamic State-owned oil fields in Iraq to defeat the terrorist group.
  • August 11, 2015: "I'm the most militaristic person there is."
    
  • September 28, 2015: "Let them fight it out. Let Russia take care of [Islamic State]."
    
    
    
    Ugh...When was the last time ISIS (or Al-Qaeda) cited Russia as a prime target of its ire?
• Flat Tax Rates: The man literally changes position within minutes, in the same interview, no less!!! (Watch by clicking on the link for the preceding sentence.)
  • "You can have fair tax, you can have flat tax, you can take the existing plans that we have and simplify.
  • The one problem I have with the flat tax is that rich people are paying the same as people that are making very little money," he said before promoting some kind of "graduation" tax upward.

Hello!!! A tax is either flat -- one rate for everyone -- or it's graduated, increasing rates as taxable income increases.​

• A look at Mr. Trump's "evolving" (to put it kindly) positions over time.

​

Now some folks may say, "Oh, he meant this." Others may say, "No, he meant that." Still others may say, "What he said means something else that may or may not be what he actually said." Twelve year olds offer fewer non-answers, vague answers, "everything" answers, etc. .than Mr. Trump does. I literally have never seen anyone be as unclear as that man! And that is the problem!!! As often as not, there's no telling for sure WTH he meant, or WTH he actually thinks, or WTH he thinks we should do, or worst of all, WTF he actually will do if he wins the Presidency!!!

Donald Trump is trying to be too many things to too many people! Period!
There is no trusting a person like that!
​

 

[Elvis Obama]

I've never personally voted against anyone and have believed in whomever I've pulled a lever or punched a card for.

Wow, it's the opposite for me, I've never voted "for" anyone. I've only voted because the alternative seems so terrible. This year that will be the case more than ever before. No matter who wins the Republican nomination, Hillary will be the lesser of two evils to me.

 

[320 Years of History]

...And for all the stuff I listed and referenced in post #8, I got so disgusted just thinking about it and the fact that Mr. Trump has cajoled so many Americans, my fellow citizens (regardless of party affiliation, regardless of being conservative, moderate, progressive, liberal or something else), into believing his BS that I didn't even mention things like:

• His avowal of "bringing jobs back even as his own clothing lines are produced in Mexico (maybe some are made in China too?)
• His utter refusal to simply renounce the KKK on global television two days before "Super Tuesday," even though he has done so in the past, yet he cannot just plainly do so once more on that occasion. What about the KKK/white supremacists is it that, if one despised them, would prevent one from plainly saying so one more time? We're talking the K-effing-KK! Not Mothers Against Drunk Driving, not PETA, not Planned Parenthood, not the NAACP, not the NRA, not the Boy Scouts, not the HRC, not China's stance on human rights, not immigrants, not blood diamonds, not Vera Coking's home, and not any other host of organizations, entities or individuals for which one can understand, intellectually at the least -- agree with the organization's principles/objectives or not -- some modicum of equivocation.
• His donating millions to the Clinton Foundation yet opposing her stances on the very things for which he donated all that money to help see them get accomplished.
• His supposed fundraiser for veterans on the night he ducked the GOP debate.

I'm tired now. The list just goes on and on....just Google for them....

 

[Staidhup]

The question as to if I will vote, yes, however for whom or for any of the above that remains to be seen.

 

[oldsoul]

Looking at the preliminary results for "Super Tuesday," it's clear to me that either Mr. Rubio or Mr. Cruz needs to get the heck out of the Republican primary races. Based on the early exit poll results I'm seeing on TV, it's clear that the two of them are cannibalizing each other. One of them needs, IMO, to just take one for the team and withdraw from the race for the sole purpose of ensuring Mr. Trump does not win the Republican primary.

I'm not overwhelmingly keen on any of the major and viable candidates from either party. The one thing I'm certain of is that of the GOP candidates available, I know whom I least like and whom I'm certain to actively vote against if he wins the nomination: Donald Trump.

I have not in any Presidential election ever felt obliged to actually vote for the sake of demonstratively recording my opposition to a candidate. I damn sure will this election cycle if Mr. Trump is the GOP nominee. My only regret is that I live in D.C. and no GOP Presidential candidate is going to win D.C. anyway.

In contrast, if Mr. Cruz or Mr. Rubio wins the nomination, as I feel today, I might actually consider, again for the first time in my vote-eligible life, abstaining. I don't cotton to the idea of abstaining from a major election -- D.C. Mayor, President, Shadow Senator, U.S. Representative, etc. -- because I firmly believe that one who doesn't vote has no right to complain or applaud. Such folks, including me if I don't vote, simply must accept what happens, like it or not.

It's not a matter that nobody but I will know whether I voted; it's that I'll know and that doesn't sit well with me personally. I have to live by my own principles just as much as I would have them be ones to which I subject others. I don't think I'd like going four years without complaining or applauding if I see something worthy of either action. LOL

I am torn. If Rubio or Cruz get the nomination, I am decided. If Trump does...I just don't know. Seems to me there is no real difference between him and Clinton, as far as what is good for the country. I would entertain the idea of voting 3rd party, but stay home? No way.

 

[Skull Pilot]

 

[320 Years of History]

I am torn. If Rubio or Cruz get the nomination, I am decided. If Trump does...I just don't know. Seems to me there is no real difference between him and Clinton, as far as what is good for the country. I would entertain the idea of voting 3rd party, but stay home? No way.

There is definitely a difference between Mr. Trump and Mrs. Clinton: I know what the hell she's likely to do. I may or may not like it, but knowing what she'll do, I can plan accordingly so as to minimize the impact on me of that which I won't like and maximize the benefit to me of that which I will like.

 

[oldsoul]

I am torn. If Rubio or Cruz get the nomination, I am decided. If Trump does...I just don't know. Seems to me there is no real difference between him and Clinton, as far as what is good for the country. I would entertain the idea of voting 3rd party, but stay home? No way.

There is definitely a difference between Mr. Trump and Mrs. Clinton: I know what the hell she's likely to do. I may or may not like it, but knowing what she'll do, I can plan accordingly so as to minimize the impact on me of that which I won't like and maximize the benefit to me of that which I will like.

Seems to me there is no real difference between him and Clinton, as far as what is good for the country.

As I said, to me, there is no real difference as far as waht I beleive is good for the country. While I do not know the specifics of what Trump will attempt to do, he will send us down the same path, just at a different pace. They are both progressives, who put what they see as good for them before what is good for the country. If someone where able to convince me otherwise, I may change my position, however, I doubt that will ever happen.