Will someone tell me the difference between [modern] liberalism and communism?

[The2ndAmendment]

I have a question for modern liberals in any political party. Please tell me the differences between your beliefs and those of Karl Marx, the father of communism? Seriously now, I’m not joking. Let’s have an honest dialogue and I promise that I’ll listen with an open mind.

Every single time a conservative such as me calls some liberal idiot a communist we get pilloried and the liberal useful idiot points out that they don’t stand for the outright ownership of all private property. Okay, I get that. But, you do apparently stand for government control of all property and industry and you believe in central planning, key components of communism.

Even people like Lawrence O’Donnell of MSNBC are coming out now and proudly proclaiming their socialism (socialism is the economic philosophy of communism).

Here’s the video of old Larry proclaiming his socialism:

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gxKd5lpZwLY&feature=player_embedded]MSNBC Anchor O'Donnell: "I Am A Socialist. I Live To The Extreme Left Of You Mere Liberals!" - YouTube[/ame]

I know it is off the topic of my question, but just for fun, let’s listen to Milton Friedman compare Socialism and Capitalism while he takes Phil Donahue to task – a video that President Obama and Michael Moore need to watch:

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=76frHHpoNFs&feature=player_embedded]Milton Friedman - Socialism vs. Capitalism - YouTube[/ame]

Copyright. Link Each "Copy & Paste" to It's Source. Only paste a small to medium section of the material.

Added link: http://www.usmessageboard.com/redir...-difference-between-liberalism-and-communism/

 

[TemplarKormac]

Are there?


The goals as they were for the American Communist Party in 1963:

1. U.S. acceptance of coexistence as the only alternative to atomic war.

Which is awfully similar to Obama's willingness to turn us into a country similar to Europe, and supposed willingness to destroy segments of our nuclear arsenal.

2. U.S. willingness to capitulate in preference to engaging in atomic war.

See No. 1

3. Develop the illusion that total disarmament [by] the United States would be a demonstration of moral strength.

See liberal gun control agenda, signage of the UN Small Arms Treaty.

4. Permit free trade between all nations regardless of Communist affiliation and regardless of whether or not items could be used for war.

See Obama's funding of the Muslim Brotherhood, donations of tanks and warplanes to Egypt and donations of US arms to Syrian Rebels linked to Al-Qaeda.

5. Extension of long-term loans to Russia and Soviet satellites.

6. Provide American aid to all nations regardless of Communist domination.

7. Grant recognition of Red China. Admission of Red China to the U.N.

See China's membership in the UN which included full veto power.

8. Set up East and West Germany as separate states in spite of Khrushchev's promise in 1955 to settle the German question by free elections under supervision of the U.N.

From 1961 to 1989 that was the case, but Ronald Reagan helped facilitate the reconstitution of Germany, which occurred in September 1990.

9. Prolong the conferences to ban atomic tests because the United States has agreed to suspend tests as long as negotiations are in progress.

See UN Nuclear Non Proliferation Treaty of 1968, the US was a signatory under Lyndon Johnson.

10. Allow all Soviet satellites individual representation in the U.N.

Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, Afghanistan, Uzbekistan, Pakistan, Turkey, Azerbaijan, Armenia, Ukraine, Belarus, and Lithuania once all former Soviet satellite nations are currently members of the UN.

11. Promote the U.N. as the only hope for mankind. If its charter is rewritten, demand that it be set up as a one-world government with its own independent armed forces. (Some Communist leaders believe the world can be taken over as easily by the U.N. as by Moscow. Sometimes these two centers compete with each other as they are now doing in the Congo.)

12. Resist any attempt to outlaw the Communist Party.

See Communist Control Act of 1954, signed into law by President Dwight Eisenhower.

13. Do away with all loyalty oaths.

See President Obama's continued breaches of his oath of office.

14. Continue giving Russia access to the U.S. Patent Office.

15. Capture one or both of the political parties in the United States.

See the Democratic Party.

16. Use technical decisions of the courts to weaken basic American institutions by claiming their activities violate civil rights.

See Supreme Court ruling on Obamacare.

17. Get control of the schools. Use them as transmission belts for socialism and current Communist propaganda. Soften the curriculum. Get control of teachers' associations. Put the party line in textbooks.

See current failure of the American educational system through continued government funding and dictation.

18. Gain control of all student newspapers.

19. Use student riots to foment public protests against programs or organizations which are under Communist attack.

See the Occupy Wall Street movement of 2011.

20. Infiltrate the press. Get control of book-review assignments, editorial writing, policymaking positions.

See the American Main Stream Media.

21. Gain control of key positions in radio, TV, and motion pictures.

See No. 20

22. Continue discrediting American culture by degrading all forms of artistic expression. An American Communist cell was told to "eliminate all good sculpture from parks and buildings, substitute shapeless, awkward and meaningless forms."

23. Control art critics and directors of art museums. "Our plan is to promote ugliness, repulsive, meaningless art."

24. Eliminate all laws governing obscenity by calling them "censorship" and a violation of free speech and free press.

See FCC v. Fox Television Stations (2012)

25. Break down cultural standards of morality by promoting pornography and obscenity in books, magazines, motion pictures, radio, and TV.

26. Present homosexuality, degeneracy and promiscuity as "normal, natural, healthy."

See Supreme Court ruling on the Defense of Marriage Act, California's Proposition 8.

27. Infiltrate the churches and replace revealed religion with "social" religion. Discredit the Bible and emphasize the need for intellectual maturity which does not need a "religious crutch."

See the Democratic Nation Convention in 2012, where the audience booed a decision to add God, Jerusalem back into the platform. See efforts by Democrats to remove religious displays from public view.

28. Eliminate prayer or any phase of religious expression in the schools on the ground that it violates the principle of "separation of church and state."

See the elimination of prayer in schools, efforts to have "under God" stricken from the Pledge of Allegiance, Liberal marginalization of the Christian faith.

29. Discredit the American Constitution by calling it inadequate, old-fashioned, out of step with modern needs, a hindrance to cooperation between nations on a worldwide basis.

See Obama's continuous breaches of multiple parts of the Constitution here.

30. Discredit the American Founding Fathers. Present them as selfish aristocrats who had no concern for the "common man."

See Liberal attempts to label the Founding Fathers as extremists.

Defense Department guide calls Founding Fathers 'extremist' | The Daily Caller

31. Belittle all forms of American culture and discourage the teaching of American history on the ground that it was only a minor part of the "big picture." Give more emphasis to Russian history since the Communists took over.

32. Support any socialist movement to give centralized control over any part of the culture--education, social agencies, welfare programs, mental health clinics, etc.

See centralized governmental institutions such as the Department of Education, Commerce, Defense, Health, Revenue, etc.

33. Eliminate all laws or procedures which interfere with the operation of the Communist apparatus.

See Liberal selective application of the United States Constitution.

34. Eliminate the House Committee on Un-American Activities.

This committee was abolished in 1975 under the Carter Administration.

35. Discredit and eventually dismantle the FBI.

36. Infiltrate and gain control of more unions.

37. Infiltrate and gain control of big business.

38. Transfer some of the powers of arrest from the police to social agencies. Treat all behavioral problems as psychiatric disorders which no one but psychiatrists can understand [or treat].

39. Dominate the psychiatric profession and use mental health laws as a means of gaining coercive control over those who oppose Communist goals.

40. Discredit the family as an institution. Encourage promiscuity and easy divorce.

See Liberal acceptance of male-male and female-female family units. Infatuation with premarital sexual activity.

41. Emphasize the need to raise children away from the negative influence of parents. Attribute prejudices, mental blocks and retarding of children to suppressive influence of parents.

42. Create the impression that violence and insurrection are legitimate aspects of the American tradition; that students and special-interest groups should rise up and use "united force" to solve economic, political or social problems.

43. Overthrow all colonial governments before native populations are ready for self-government.

See Iraq, Afghanistan.

44. Internationalize the Panama Canal.

See The Torrijos–Carter Treaties.

45. Repeal the Connally reservation so the United States cannot prevent the World Court from seizing jurisdiction [over domestic problems. Give the World Court jurisdiction] over nations and individuals alike.

See the United Nations.

http://www.usmessageboard.com/politics/319919-defining-liberalism-10.html#post8037348

 

[Clementine]

No difference.

We have leaders who think they are above us and not obligated to follow the same rules. Those leaders desire to control every aspect of our lives.

An Obamacare worker was fired for speaking with a conservative talk show host. She said nothing wrong, but lost her job anyway. It was a great example of how people will be punished for exercising freedom of speech. Just the fact that she spoke to someone the administration doesn't like was enough to get her fired. Considering they will do that, imagine what awaits political enemies in other ways. We've seen what the IRS will be used for. Now that the biggest bitch on the planet will oversee Obamacare, do you think medical procedures will be approved for political dissenters? Considering this group of asshats currently in office are willing to abuse power to get their way, I expect the worst is yet to come.

Much of what we've seen these last few years are reminiscent of the commies. People fearing government, so they toe the line. Don't ask questions, keep your opinions to yourself and pretend to adore the powers that be or you might get a visit from the feds or even disappear.

 

[Clementine]

Are there?


The goals as they were for the American Communist Party in 1963:

1. U.S. acceptance of coexistence as the only alternative to atomic war.

Which is awfully similar to Obama's willingness to turn us into a country similar to Europe, and supposed willingness to destroy segments of our nuclear arsenal.

2. U.S. willingness to capitulate in preference to engaging in atomic war.

See No. 1

3. Develop the illusion that total disarmament [by] the United States would be a demonstration of moral strength.

See liberal gun control agenda, signage of the UN Small Arms Treaty.

4. Permit free trade between all nations regardless of Communist affiliation and regardless of whether or not items could be used for war.

See Obama's funding of the Muslim Brotherhood, donations of tanks and warplanes to Egypt and donations of US arms to Syrian Rebels linked to Al-Qaeda.

5. Extension of long-term loans to Russia and Soviet satellites.

6. Provide American aid to all nations regardless of Communist domination.

7. Grant recognition of Red China. Admission of Red China to the U.N.

See China's membership in the UN which included full veto power.

8. Set up East and West Germany as separate states in spite of Khrushchev's promise in 1955 to settle the German question by free elections under supervision of the U.N.

From 1961 to 1989 that was the case, but Ronald Reagan helped facilitate the reconstitution of Germany, which occurred in September 1990.

9. Prolong the conferences to ban atomic tests because the United States has agreed to suspend tests as long as negotiations are in progress.

See UN Nuclear Non Proliferation Treaty of 1968, the US was a signatory under Lyndon Johnson.

10. Allow all Soviet satellites individual representation in the U.N.

Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, Afghanistan, Uzbekistan, Pakistan, Turkey, Azerbaijan, Armenia, Ukraine, Belarus, and Lithuania once all former Soviet satellite nations are currently members of the UN.

11. Promote the U.N. as the only hope for mankind. If its charter is rewritten, demand that it be set up as a one-world government with its own independent armed forces. (Some Communist leaders believe the world can be taken over as easily by the U.N. as by Moscow. Sometimes these two centers compete with each other as they are now doing in the Congo.)

12. Resist any attempt to outlaw the Communist Party.

See Communist Control Act of 1954, signed into law by President Dwight Eisenhower.

13. Do away with all loyalty oaths.

See President Obama's continued breaches of his oath of office.

14. Continue giving Russia access to the U.S. Patent Office.

15. Capture one or both of the political parties in the United States.

See the Democratic Party.

16. Use technical decisions of the courts to weaken basic American institutions by claiming their activities violate civil rights.

See Supreme Court ruling on Obamacare.

17. Get control of the schools. Use them as transmission belts for socialism and current Communist propaganda. Soften the curriculum. Get control of teachers' associations. Put the party line in textbooks.

See current failure of the American educational system through continued government funding and dictation.

18. Gain control of all student newspapers.

19. Use student riots to foment public protests against programs or organizations which are under Communist attack.

See the Occupy Wall Street movement of 2011.

20. Infiltrate the press. Get control of book-review assignments, editorial writing, policymaking positions.

See the American Main Stream Media.

21. Gain control of key positions in radio, TV, and motion pictures.

See No. 20

22. Continue discrediting American culture by degrading all forms of artistic expression. An American Communist cell was told to "eliminate all good sculpture from parks and buildings, substitute shapeless, awkward and meaningless forms."

23. Control art critics and directors of art museums. "Our plan is to promote ugliness, repulsive, meaningless art."

24. Eliminate all laws governing obscenity by calling them "censorship" and a violation of free speech and free press.

See FCC v. Fox Television Stations (2012)

25. Break down cultural standards of morality by promoting pornography and obscenity in books, magazines, motion pictures, radio, and TV.

26. Present homosexuality, degeneracy and promiscuity as "normal, natural, healthy."

See Supreme Court ruling on the Defense of Marriage Act, California's Proposition 8.

27. Infiltrate the churches and replace revealed religion with "social" religion. Discredit the Bible and emphasize the need for intellectual maturity which does not need a "religious crutch."

See the Democratic Nation Convention in 2012, where the audience booed a decision to add God, Jerusalem back into the platform. See efforts by Democrats to remove religious displays from public view.

28. Eliminate prayer or any phase of religious expression in the schools on the ground that it violates the principle of "separation of church and state."

See the elimination of prayer in schools, efforts to have "under God" stricken from the Pledge of Allegiance, Liberal marginalization of the Christian faith.

29. Discredit the American Constitution by calling it inadequate, old-fashioned, out of step with modern needs, a hindrance to cooperation between nations on a worldwide basis.

See Obama's continuous breaches of multiple parts of the Constitution here.

30. Discredit the American Founding Fathers. Present them as selfish aristocrats who had no concern for the "common man."

See Liberal attempts to label the Founding Fathers as extremists.

Defense Department guide calls Founding Fathers 'extremist' | The Daily Caller

31. Belittle all forms of American culture and discourage the teaching of American history on the ground that it was only a minor part of the "big picture." Give more emphasis to Russian history since the Communists took over.

32. Support any socialist movement to give centralized control over any part of the culture--education, social agencies, welfare programs, mental health clinics, etc.

See centralized governmental institutions such as the Department of Education, Commerce, Defense, Health, Revenue, etc.

33. Eliminate all laws or procedures which interfere with the operation of the Communist apparatus.

See Liberal selective application of the United States Constitution.

34. Eliminate the House Committee on Un-American Activities.

This committee was abolished in 1975 under the Carter Administration.

35. Discredit and eventually dismantle the FBI.

36. Infiltrate and gain control of more unions.

37. Infiltrate and gain control of big business.

38. Transfer some of the powers of arrest from the police to social agencies. Treat all behavioral problems as psychiatric disorders which no one but psychiatrists can understand [or treat].

39. Dominate the psychiatric profession and use mental health laws as a means of gaining coercive control over those who oppose Communist goals.

40. Discredit the family as an institution. Encourage promiscuity and easy divorce.

See Liberal acceptance of male-male and female-female family units. Infatuation with premarital sexual activity.

41. Emphasize the need to raise children away from the negative influence of parents. Attribute prejudices, mental blocks and retarding of children to suppressive influence of parents.

42. Create the impression that violence and insurrection are legitimate aspects of the American tradition; that students and special-interest groups should rise up and use "united force" to solve economic, political or social problems.

43. Overthrow all colonial governments before native populations are ready for self-government.

See Iraq, Afghanistan.

44. Internationalize the Panama Canal.

See The Torrijos–Carter Treaties.

45. Repeal the Connally reservation so the United States cannot prevent the World Court from seizing jurisdiction [over domestic problems. Give the World Court jurisdiction] over nations and individuals alike.

See the United Nations.

http://www.usmessageboard.com/politics/319919-defining-liberalism-10.html#post8037348

Excellent post and worth quoting!!

 

[Billy000]

I have a question for modern liberals in any political party. Please tell me the differences between your beliefs and those of Karl Marx, the father of communism? Seriously now, I’m not joking. Let’s have an honest dialogue and I promise that I’ll listen with an open mind.

Every single time a conservative such as me calls some liberal idiot a communist we get pilloried and the liberal useful idiot points out that they don’t stand for the outright ownership of all private property. Okay, I get that. But, you do apparently stand for government control of all property and industry and you believe in central planning, key components of communism.

Even people like Lawrence O’Donnell of MSNBC are coming out now and proudly proclaiming their socialism (socialism is the economic philosophy of communism).

Here’s the video of old Larry proclaiming his socialism:

MSNBC Anchor O'Donnell: "I Am A Socialist. I Live To The Extreme Left Of You Mere Liberals!" - YouTube

I know it is off the topic of my question, but just for fun, let’s listen to Milton Friedman compare Socialism and Capitalism while he takes Phil Donahue to task – a video that President Obama and Michael Moore need to watch:

Milton Friedman - Socialism vs. Capitalism - YouTube

Okay, below are the ten planks of communism and you can compare them yourselves to what we currently have in America and what liberals traditionally argue in favor of. If the answer is simply a matter of degrees then tell me that. I really – honestly want to know the differences.
Let’s take a look at the ten planks of communism.

1. Abolition of property in land and application of all rents of land to public purposes.
2. A heavy progressive or graduated income tax.
3. Abolition of all right of inheritance.
4. Confiscation of the property of all emigrants and rebels.
5. Centralisation of credit in the hands of the State, by means of a national bank with State capital and an exclusive monopoly.
6. Centralisation of the means of communication and transport in the hands of the State.
7. Extension of factories and instruments of production owned by the State; the bringing into cultivation of waste-lands, and the improvement of the soil generally in accordance with a common plan.
8. Equal liability of all to labour. Establishment of industrial armies, especially for agriculture.
9. Combination of agriculture with manufacturing industries; gradual abolition of the distinction between town and country, by a more equitable distribution of the population over the country.
10. Free education for all children in public schools. Abolition of children’s factory labour in its present form. Combination of education with industrial production.

Right now, the federal government owns approximately 30% of all American land. Private property owners pay local property taxes (the application of rents to public purposes) to fund various local, state and federal programs. We have a heavy progressive income tax, credit has been centralized under the federal government as have communications and transportation, agriculture and industry are being combined through corporate farms, and of course we’ve had “free public education” for decades in America.

We also used to have a heavy inheritance tax and liberals are arguing for that again, claiming that you have no right to bequeath your property or money to your children or other relatives.

Okay, some brave liberal out there please explain the differences between that in which you believe, support and urge with communism. I’ll listen with an open mind.

This is the key difference between communism and liberalism:

Communists want to ELMININATE the extremes of poverty and wealth. Liberals want to LIMIT the extremes of poverty and wealth. Liberals are not against the idea of a wealthy class. What liberals are against is growing wealth at the expense of growing the poor.

The numbers don't lie: the middle class is shrinking. The rich are getting richer and the poor are getting poorer. Want proof? Check out the link in my signature. A very small percentage of our population controls 40% of the wealth. That. Is. Wrong.

Now do you get it? This isn't hard.

 

[Politico]

There is a big difference between socialists and communists.

 

[billyerock1991]

Are there?


The goals as they were for the American Communist Party in 1963:

1. U.S. acceptance of coexistence as the only alternative to atomic war.

Which is awfully similar to Obama's willingness to turn us into a country similar to Europe, and supposed willingness to destroy segments of our nuclear arsenal.

2. U.S. willingness to capitulate in preference to engaging in atomic war.

See No. 1

3. Develop the illusion that total disarmament [by] the United States would be a demonstration of moral strength.

See liberal gun control agenda, signage of the UN Small Arms Treaty.

4. Permit free trade between all nations regardless of Communist affiliation and regardless of whether or not items could be used for war.

See Obama's funding of the Muslim Brotherhood, donations of tanks and warplanes to Egypt and donations of US arms to Syrian Rebels linked to Al-Qaeda.

5. Extension of long-term loans to Russia and Soviet satellites.

6. Provide American aid to all nations regardless of Communist domination.

7. Grant recognition of Red China. Admission of Red China to the U.N.

See China's membership in the UN which included full veto power.

8. Set up East and West Germany as separate states in spite of Khrushchev's promise in 1955 to settle the German question by free elections under supervision of the U.N.

From 1961 to 1989 that was the case, but Ronald Reagan helped facilitate the reconstitution of Germany, which occurred in September 1990.

9. Prolong the conferences to ban atomic tests because the United States has agreed to suspend tests as long as negotiations are in progress.

See UN Nuclear Non Proliferation Treaty of 1968, the US was a signatory under Lyndon Johnson.

10. Allow all Soviet satellites individual representation in the U.N.

Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, Afghanistan, Uzbekistan, Pakistan, Turkey, Azerbaijan, Armenia, Ukraine, Belarus, and Lithuania once all former Soviet satellite nations are currently members of the UN.

11. Promote the U.N. as the only hope for mankind. If its charter is rewritten, demand that it be set up as a one-world government with its own independent armed forces. (Some Communist leaders believe the world can be taken over as easily by the U.N. as by Moscow. Sometimes these two centers compete with each other as they are now doing in the Congo.)

12. Resist any attempt to outlaw the Communist Party.

See Communist Control Act of 1954, signed into law by President Dwight Eisenhower.

13. Do away with all loyalty oaths.

See President Obama's continued breaches of his oath of office.

14. Continue giving Russia access to the U.S. Patent Office.

15. Capture one or both of the political parties in the United States.

See the Democratic Party.

16. Use technical decisions of the courts to weaken basic American institutions by claiming their activities violate civil rights.

See Supreme Court ruling on Obamacare.

17. Get control of the schools. Use them as transmission belts for socialism and current Communist propaganda. Soften the curriculum. Get control of teachers' associations. Put the party line in textbooks.

See current failure of the American educational system through continued government funding and dictation.

18. Gain control of all student newspapers.

19. Use student riots to foment public protests against programs or organizations which are under Communist attack.

See the Occupy Wall Street movement of 2011.

20. Infiltrate the press. Get control of book-review assignments, editorial writing, policymaking positions.

See the American Main Stream Media.

21. Gain control of key positions in radio, TV, and motion pictures.

See No. 20

22. Continue discrediting American culture by degrading all forms of artistic expression. An American Communist cell was told to "eliminate all good sculpture from parks and buildings, substitute shapeless, awkward and meaningless forms."

23. Control art critics and directors of art museums. "Our plan is to promote ugliness, repulsive, meaningless art."

24. Eliminate all laws governing obscenity by calling them "censorship" and a violation of free speech and free press.

See FCC v. Fox Television Stations (2012)

25. Break down cultural standards of morality by promoting pornography and obscenity in books, magazines, motion pictures, radio, and TV.

26. Present homosexuality, degeneracy and promiscuity as "normal, natural, healthy."

See Supreme Court ruling on the Defense of Marriage Act, California's Proposition 8.

27. Infiltrate the churches and replace revealed religion with "social" religion. Discredit the Bible and emphasize the need for intellectual maturity which does not need a "religious crutch."

See the Democratic Nation Convention in 2012, where the audience booed a decision to add God, Jerusalem back into the platform. See efforts by Democrats to remove religious displays from public view.

28. Eliminate prayer or any phase of religious expression in the schools on the ground that it violates the principle of "separation of church and state."

See the elimination of prayer in schools, efforts to have "under God" stricken from the Pledge of Allegiance, Liberal marginalization of the Christian faith.

29. Discredit the American Constitution by calling it inadequate, old-fashioned, out of step with modern needs, a hindrance to cooperation between nations on a worldwide basis.

See Obama's continuous breaches of multiple parts of the Constitution here.

30. Discredit the American Founding Fathers. Present them as selfish aristocrats who had no concern for the "common man."

See Liberal attempts to label the Founding Fathers as extremists.

Defense Department guide calls Founding Fathers 'extremist' | The Daily Caller

31. Belittle all forms of American culture and discourage the teaching of American history on the ground that it was only a minor part of the "big picture." Give more emphasis to Russian history since the Communists took over.

32. Support any socialist movement to give centralized control over any part of the culture--education, social agencies, welfare programs, mental health clinics, etc.

See centralized governmental institutions such as the Department of Education, Commerce, Defense, Health, Revenue, etc.

33. Eliminate all laws or procedures which interfere with the operation of the Communist apparatus.

See Liberal selective application of the United States Constitution.

34. Eliminate the House Committee on Un-American Activities.

This committee was abolished in 1975 under the Carter Administration.

35. Discredit and eventually dismantle the FBI.

36. Infiltrate and gain control of more unions.

37. Infiltrate and gain control of big business.

38. Transfer some of the powers of arrest from the police to social agencies. Treat all behavioral problems as psychiatric disorders which no one but psychiatrists can understand [or treat].

39. Dominate the psychiatric profession and use mental health laws as a means of gaining coercive control over those who oppose Communist goals.

40. Discredit the family as an institution. Encourage promiscuity and easy divorce.

See Liberal acceptance of male-male and female-female family units. Infatuation with premarital sexual activity.

41. Emphasize the need to raise children away from the negative influence of parents. Attribute prejudices, mental blocks and retarding of children to suppressive influence of parents.

42. Create the impression that violence and insurrection are legitimate aspects of the American tradition; that students and special-interest groups should rise up and use "united force" to solve economic, political or social problems.

43. Overthrow all colonial governments before native populations are ready for self-government.

See Iraq, Afghanistan.

44. Internationalize the Panama Canal.

See The Torrijos–Carter Treaties.

45. Repeal the Connally reservation so the United States cannot prevent the World Court from seizing jurisdiction [over domestic problems. Give the World Court jurisdiction] over nations and individuals alike.

See the United Nations.

http://www.usmessageboard.com/politics/319919-defining-liberalism-10.html#post8037348

• like allways you're full of shit...

 

[billyerock1991]

I have a question for modern liberals in any political party. Please tell me the differences between your beliefs and those of Karl Marx, the father of communism? Seriously now, I’m not joking. Let’s have an honest dialogue and I promise that I’ll listen with an open mind.

Every single time a conservative such as me calls some liberal idiot a communist we get pilloried and the liberal useful idiot points out that they don’t stand for the outright ownership of all private property. Okay, I get that. But, you do apparently stand for government control of all property and industry and you believe in central planning, key components of communism.

Even people like Lawrence O’Donnell of MSNBC are coming out now and proudly proclaiming their socialism (socialism is the economic philosophy of communism).

Here’s the video of old Larry proclaiming his socialism:



I know it is off the topic of my question, but just for fun, let’s listen to Milton Friedman compare Socialism and Capitalism while he takes Phil Donahue to task – a video that President Obama and Michael Moore need to watch:



Okay, below are the ten planks of communism and you can compare them yourselves to what we currently have in America and what liberals traditionally argue in favor of. If the answer is simply a matter of degrees then tell me that. I really – honestly want to know the differences.
Let’s take a look at the ten planks of communism.

1. Abolition of property in land and application of all rents of land to public purposes.
2. A heavy progressive or graduated income tax.
3. Abolition of all right of inheritance.
4. Confiscation of the property of all emigrants and rebels.
5. Centralisation of credit in the hands of the State, by means of a national bank with State capital and an exclusive monopoly.
6. Centralisation of the means of communication and transport in the hands of the State.
7. Extension of factories and instruments of production owned by the State; the bringing into cultivation of waste-lands, and the improvement of the soil generally in accordance with a common plan.
8. Equal liability of all to labour. Establishment of industrial armies, especially for agriculture.
9. Combination of agriculture with manufacturing industries; gradual abolition of the distinction between town and country, by a more equitable distribution of the population over the country.
10. Free education for all children in public schools. Abolition of children’s factory labour in its present form. Combination of education with industrial production.

Right now, the federal government owns approximately 30% of all American land. Private property owners pay local property taxes (the application of rents to public purposes) to fund various local, state and federal programs. We have a heavy progressive income tax, credit has been centralized under the federal government as have communications and transportation, agriculture and industry are being combined through corporate farms, and of course we’ve had “free public education” for decades in America.

We also used to have a heavy inheritance tax and liberals are arguing for that again, claiming that you have no right to bequeath your property or money to your children or other relatives.

Okay, some brave liberal out there please explain the differences between that in which you believe, support and urge with communism. I’ll listen with an open mind.

how many times have we liberals must endure such stupidity from these repub-lie-turds ... how many times have we been call tax and spend liberals ... or how we alway try ti run up the national debt... here is a clown like all the rest of you morons who think all we want to do is tax you to death but communistic socialist ways ... are you people this stupid ???? come on really are you really this stupid???? communist or socialist don't tax you ever ... when will they ever learn ...

 

[Norman]

Most liberals are fairly moderate. That is the difference.

 

[TemplarKormac]

Are there?


The goals as they were for the American Communist Party in 1963:

1. U.S. acceptance of coexistence as the only alternative to atomic war.

Which is awfully similar to Obama's willingness to turn us into a country similar to Europe, and supposed willingness to destroy segments of our nuclear arsenal.

2. U.S. willingness to capitulate in preference to engaging in atomic war.

See No. 1

3. Develop the illusion that total disarmament [by] the United States would be a demonstration of moral strength.

See liberal gun control agenda, signage of the UN Small Arms Treaty.

4. Permit free trade between all nations regardless of Communist affiliation and regardless of whether or not items could be used for war.

See Obama's funding of the Muslim Brotherhood, donations of tanks and warplanes to Egypt and donations of US arms to Syrian Rebels linked to Al-Qaeda.

5. Extension of long-term loans to Russia and Soviet satellites.

6. Provide American aid to all nations regardless of Communist domination.

7. Grant recognition of Red China. Admission of Red China to the U.N.

See China's membership in the UN which included full veto power.

8. Set up East and West Germany as separate states in spite of Khrushchev's promise in 1955 to settle the German question by free elections under supervision of the U.N.

From 1961 to 1989 that was the case, but Ronald Reagan helped facilitate the reconstitution of Germany, which occurred in September 1990.

9. Prolong the conferences to ban atomic tests because the United States has agreed to suspend tests as long as negotiations are in progress.

See UN Nuclear Non Proliferation Treaty of 1968, the US was a signatory under Lyndon Johnson.

10. Allow all Soviet satellites individual representation in the U.N.

Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, Afghanistan, Uzbekistan, Pakistan, Turkey, Azerbaijan, Armenia, Ukraine, Belarus, and Lithuania once all former Soviet satellite nations are currently members of the UN.

11. Promote the U.N. as the only hope for mankind. If its charter is rewritten, demand that it be set up as a one-world government with its own independent armed forces. (Some Communist leaders believe the world can be taken over as easily by the U.N. as by Moscow. Sometimes these two centers compete with each other as they are now doing in the Congo.)

12. Resist any attempt to outlaw the Communist Party.

See Communist Control Act of 1954, signed into law by President Dwight Eisenhower.

13. Do away with all loyalty oaths.

See President Obama's continued breaches of his oath of office.

14. Continue giving Russia access to the U.S. Patent Office.

15. Capture one or both of the political parties in the United States.

See the Democratic Party.

16. Use technical decisions of the courts to weaken basic American institutions by claiming their activities violate civil rights.

See Supreme Court ruling on Obamacare.

17. Get control of the schools. Use them as transmission belts for socialism and current Communist propaganda. Soften the curriculum. Get control of teachers' associations. Put the party line in textbooks.

See current failure of the American educational system through continued government funding and dictation.

18. Gain control of all student newspapers.

19. Use student riots to foment public protests against programs or organizations which are under Communist attack.

See the Occupy Wall Street movement of 2011.

20. Infiltrate the press. Get control of book-review assignments, editorial writing, policymaking positions.

See the American Main Stream Media.

21. Gain control of key positions in radio, TV, and motion pictures.

See No. 20

22. Continue discrediting American culture by degrading all forms of artistic expression. An American Communist cell was told to "eliminate all good sculpture from parks and buildings, substitute shapeless, awkward and meaningless forms."

23. Control art critics and directors of art museums. "Our plan is to promote ugliness, repulsive, meaningless art."

24. Eliminate all laws governing obscenity by calling them "censorship" and a violation of free speech and free press.

See FCC v. Fox Television Stations (2012)

25. Break down cultural standards of morality by promoting pornography and obscenity in books, magazines, motion pictures, radio, and TV.

26. Present homosexuality, degeneracy and promiscuity as "normal, natural, healthy."

See Supreme Court ruling on the Defense of Marriage Act, California's Proposition 8.

27. Infiltrate the churches and replace revealed religion with "social" religion. Discredit the Bible and emphasize the need for intellectual maturity which does not need a "religious crutch."

See the Democratic Nation Convention in 2012, where the audience booed a decision to add God, Jerusalem back into the platform. See efforts by Democrats to remove religious displays from public view.

28. Eliminate prayer or any phase of religious expression in the schools on the ground that it violates the principle of "separation of church and state."

See the elimination of prayer in schools, efforts to have "under God" stricken from the Pledge of Allegiance, Liberal marginalization of the Christian faith.

29. Discredit the American Constitution by calling it inadequate, old-fashioned, out of step with modern needs, a hindrance to cooperation between nations on a worldwide basis.

See Obama's continuous breaches of multiple parts of the Constitution here.

30. Discredit the American Founding Fathers. Present them as selfish aristocrats who had no concern for the "common man."

See Liberal attempts to label the Founding Fathers as extremists.

Defense Department guide calls Founding Fathers 'extremist' | The Daily Caller

31. Belittle all forms of American culture and discourage the teaching of American history on the ground that it was only a minor part of the "big picture." Give more emphasis to Russian history since the Communists took over.

32. Support any socialist movement to give centralized control over any part of the culture--education, social agencies, welfare programs, mental health clinics, etc.

See centralized governmental institutions such as the Department of Education, Commerce, Defense, Health, Revenue, etc.

33. Eliminate all laws or procedures which interfere with the operation of the Communist apparatus.

See Liberal selective application of the United States Constitution.

34. Eliminate the House Committee on Un-American Activities.

This committee was abolished in 1975 under the Carter Administration.

35. Discredit and eventually dismantle the FBI.

36. Infiltrate and gain control of more unions.

37. Infiltrate and gain control of big business.

38. Transfer some of the powers of arrest from the police to social agencies. Treat all behavioral problems as psychiatric disorders which no one but psychiatrists can understand [or treat].

39. Dominate the psychiatric profession and use mental health laws as a means of gaining coercive control over those who oppose Communist goals.

40. Discredit the family as an institution. Encourage promiscuity and easy divorce.

See Liberal acceptance of male-male and female-female family units. Infatuation with premarital sexual activity.

41. Emphasize the need to raise children away from the negative influence of parents. Attribute prejudices, mental blocks and retarding of children to suppressive influence of parents.

42. Create the impression that violence and insurrection are legitimate aspects of the American tradition; that students and special-interest groups should rise up and use "united force" to solve economic, political or social problems.

43. Overthrow all colonial governments before native populations are ready for self-government.

See Iraq, Afghanistan.

44. Internationalize the Panama Canal.

See The Torrijos–Carter Treaties.

45. Repeal the Connally reservation so the United States cannot prevent the World Court from seizing jurisdiction [over domestic problems. Give the World Court jurisdiction] over nations and individuals alike.

See the United Nations.

http://www.usmessageboard.com/politics/319919-defining-liberalism-10.html#post8037348

• like allways you're full of shit...

Like always, you have no argument. Fuck off.

 

[Neotrotsky]

 

[JakeStarkey]

The original OP can be best answered by beginning with this question Will someone tell me the difference between libertarianism and communism?

 

[Neotrotsky]

Right now, the federal government owns approximately 30% of all American land. Private property owners pay local property taxes (the application of rents to public purposes) to fund various local, state and federal programs. We have a heavy progressive income tax, credit has been centralized under the federal government as have communications and transportation, agriculture and industry are being combined through corporate farms, and of course we’ve had “free public education” for decades in America.

We also used to have a heavy inheritance tax and liberals are arguing for that again, claiming that you have no right to bequeath your property or money to your children or other relatives.

Okay, some brave liberal out there please explain the differences between that in which you believe, support and urge with communism. I’ll listen with an open mind.

OP-Will someone tell me the difference between [modern] liberalism and communism?

They can't because they always assume their actions will have no negative effects.
For the same reason, they can't admit that the Great Society was a failure.

It really is a matter of degree of gov't power over the individual
Socialism, communism, fascism, crony capitalism are all forms of some level of CPE's
and share little with what a true free market system should be and the US has never really had a free market system.

The left also believes that rights originate from the state when real rights are innate and
they fail to recognize that the state cannot give 'rights' with more power, only erode the real
rights that we have..
It puts the state above the individual and forces submission to the group.
It erases the rights of the individual all in the name of some incorrect version of equality.
It is sad how many on the extreme left are willing to prostrate themselves before the state.

The Left always has to hide from the history of the failed leftist political systems...
communism or some socialist/statist variants have murdered more
people than any other political system...

Washington said it best:

"Government is not reason; it is not eloquent; it is force. Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master."​

Sad thing is,,,
the extreme Left naively thinks they will get it "correct", this time....
that they can somehow control the state's increasing required power over the individual
to implement yet another failed socialist utopia

 

[CrusaderFrank]

I have a question for modern liberals in any political party. Please tell me the differences between your beliefs and those of Karl Marx, the father of communism? Seriously now, I’m not joking. Let’s have an honest dialogue and I promise that I’ll listen with an open mind.

Every single time a conservative such as me calls some liberal idiot a communist we get pilloried and the liberal useful idiot points out that they don’t stand for the outright ownership of all private property. Okay, I get that. But, you do apparently stand for government control of all property and industry and you believe in central planning, key components of communism.

Even people like Lawrence O’Donnell of MSNBC are coming out now and proudly proclaiming their socialism (socialism is the economic philosophy of communism).

Here’s the video of old Larry proclaiming his socialism:

MSNBC Anchor O'Donnell: "I Am A Socialist. I Live To The Extreme Left Of You Mere Liberals!" - YouTube

I know it is off the topic of my question, but just for fun, let’s listen to Milton Friedman compare Socialism and Capitalism while he takes Phil Donahue to task – a video that President Obama and Michael Moore need to watch:

Milton Friedman - Socialism vs. Capitalism - YouTube

Okay, below are the ten planks of communism and you can compare them yourselves to what we currently have in America and what liberals traditionally argue in favor of. If the answer is simply a matter of degrees then tell me that. I really – honestly want to know the differences.
Let’s take a look at the ten planks of communism.

1. Abolition of property in land and application of all rents of land to public purposes.
2. A heavy progressive or graduated income tax.
3. Abolition of all right of inheritance.
4. Confiscation of the property of all emigrants and rebels.
5. Centralisation of credit in the hands of the State, by means of a national bank with State capital and an exclusive monopoly.
6. Centralisation of the means of communication and transport in the hands of the State.
7. Extension of factories and instruments of production owned by the State; the bringing into cultivation of waste-lands, and the improvement of the soil generally in accordance with a common plan.
8. Equal liability of all to labour. Establishment of industrial armies, especially for agriculture.
9. Combination of agriculture with manufacturing industries; gradual abolition of the distinction between town and country, by a more equitable distribution of the population over the country.
10. Free education for all children in public schools. Abolition of children’s factory labour in its present form. Combination of education with industrial production.

Right now, the federal government owns approximately 30% of all American land. Private property owners pay local property taxes (the application of rents to public purposes) to fund various local, state and federal programs. We have a heavy progressive income tax, credit has been centralized under the federal government as have communications and transportation, agriculture and industry are being combined through corporate farms, and of course we’ve had “free public education” for decades in America.

We also used to have a heavy inheritance tax and liberals are arguing for that again, claiming that you have no right to bequeath your property or money to your children or other relatives.

Okay, some brave liberal out there please explain the differences between that in which you believe, support and urge with communism. I’ll listen with an open mind.

This is the key difference between communism and liberalism:

Communists want to ELMININATE the extremes of poverty and wealth. Liberals want to LIMIT the extremes of poverty and wealth. Liberals are not against the idea of a wealthy class. What liberals are against is growing wealth at the expense of growing the poor.

The numbers don't lie: the middle class is shrinking. The rich are getting richer and the poor are getting poorer. Want proof? Check out the link in my signature. A very small percentage of our population controls 40% of the wealth. That. Is. Wrong.

Now do you get it? This isn't hard.

There's no difference that's why you bought into the "I'm the 99%" bullshit

 

[JakeStarkey]

Frank and Neo both know that libertarians and communists:

(1) do not recognize the Rule of Law in place of the Rule of Man

(2) do not recognize the inalienable rights to decency and dignity for all human beings

(3) do intend to rule others by force, either through like-minded cadres or societies of 'equals'

(4) do not recognize the limitations of human nature

 

[CrusaderFrank]

The original OP can be best answered by beginning with this question Will someone tell me the difference between libertarianism and communism?

Jake, shut the fuck up

 

[Neotrotsky]

No difference.

We have leaders who think they are above us and not obligated to follow the same rules. Those leaders desire to control every aspect of our lives.

An Obamacare worker was fired for speaking with a conservative talk show host. She said nothing wrong, but lost her job anyway. It was a great example of how people will be punished for exercising freedom of speech. Just the fact that she spoke to someone the administration doesn't like was enough to get her fired. Considering they will do that, imagine what awaits political enemies in other ways. We've seen what the IRS will be used for. Now that the biggest bitch on the planet will oversee Obamacare, do you think medical procedures will be approved for political dissenters? Considering this group of asshats currently in office are willing to abuse power to get their way, I expect the worst is yet to come.

Much of what we've seen these last few years are reminiscent of the commies. People fearing government, so they toe the line. Don't ask questions, keep your opinions to yourself and pretend to adore the powers that be or you might get a visit from the feds or even disappear.

In all statism, the state is never wrong and is supreme to the individual.

Sad how many apologists for Papa Obama and other concerned trolls will
defend the erosion of the rights of the individual over in the name of a
'great cause'

History is full of these failure

A possible future of the 'new' order the if the reactionary left
ever has their way completely fulfilled:

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FJyqlxoLuvo"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FJyqlxoLuvo[/ame]

 

[dblack]

Communism mandates government ownership of the means of production. Modern liberalism mandates government ownership over everything but.

 

[Neotrotsky]

Please don't feed the concerned trolls


Of course, no doubt another apologist for Papa Obama and other failed leftist programs
will come on here, soon enough

The reactionary and extreme left is really damaging the Democratic party

Here boy

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Please don't feed the concerned trolls

Jake gets defensive whenever anyone attacks: Obama, ObamaCare, Communism and Socialism