Will Obama's 1st act shut down 1/3 of hospitals?

[Tristan]

Will Obama's 1st act shut down 1/3 of hospitals ...providing care in many neighborhoods that are not exactly otherwise overprovided for. (on edit-title change-good catch by Ravi)

Not likely but not impossible.

Quick and dirty: One third of hospitals in America are Catholic hospitals. Under current law these hospitals don't have to preform abortions under a sort of "conscience objector" clause. The so called Freedom of Choice Act could change that. According to Barbara Boxer FOCA would nullify all existing laws and regulations that limit abortion in any way.

FOCA
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pf0XIRZSTt8"]Obama on FOCA[/ame]

Lose-Lose on Abortion
Obama's threat to Catholic hospitals and their very serious counterthreat.
By Melinda Henneberger
Obama's threat to Catholic hospitals and their very serious counterthreat. - By Melinda Henneberger - Slate Magazine
-snip

What in the world were these bishops talking about, claiming that religious freedom in America was under attack? Keep up the hysterics, boys, I thought as I scanned the latest story, and this will be birth control all over again: Your lips are moving but no one can hear you. And the most ludicrous line out of them, surely, was about how, under Obama, Catholic hospitals that provide obstetric and gynecological services might soon be forced to perform abortions or close their doors. Auxiliary Bishop Thomas Paprocki of Chicago warned of "devastating consequences" to the health care system, insisting Obama could force the closure of all Catholic hospitals in the country. That's a third of all hospitals, providing care in many neighborhoods that are not exactly otherwise overprovided for. It couldn't happen, could it?

You wouldn't think so. Only, I am increasingly convinced that it could. If the Freedom of Choice Act passes Congress, and that's a big if, Obama has promised to sign it the second it hits his desk. (Here he is at a Planned Parenthood Action Fund event in 2007, vowing, "The first thing I'd do as president is, is sign the Freedom of Choice Act. That's the first thing I'd do.") Though it's often referred to as a mere codification of Roe, FOCA, as currently drafted, actually goes well beyond that: According to the Senate sponsor of the bill, Barbara Boxer, in a statement on her Web site, FOCA would nullify all existing laws and regulations that limit abortion in any way, up to the time of fetal viability. Laws requiring parental notification and informed consent would be tossed out. While there is strenuous debate among legal experts on the matter, many believe the act would invalidate the freedom-of-conscience laws on the books in 46 states. These are the laws that allow Catholic hospitals and health providers that receive public funds through Medicaid and Medicare to opt out of performing abortions. Without public funds, these health centers couldn't stay open; if forced to do abortions, they would sooner close their doors. Even the prospect of selling the institutions to other providers wouldn't be an option, the bishops have said, because that would constitute "material cooperation with an intrinsic evil."

The bishops are not bluffing when they say they'd turn out the lights rather than comply. Nor is Auxiliary Bishop Robert Hermann of St. Louis exaggerating, I don't think, in vowing that "any one of us would consider it a privilege to die tomorrow—to die tomorrow—to bring about the end of abortion.''

Whatever your view on the legality and morality of abortion, there is another important question to be considered here: Could we even begin to reform our already overburdened health care system without these Catholic institutions? I don't see how.

-snip

By supporting and signing the current version of FOCA, Obama would reignite the culture war he so deftly sidestepped throughout this campaign. This is a fight he just doesn't need at a moment when there is no shortage of other crises to manage.

The best thing that can happen to Obama is there are not enough Democrats willing to vote for FOCA and he does not have to break that promise.

 

[Annie]

go for it, Obama and constituents. Loyola affiliated, etc. Kill them.

 

[Red Dawn]

It's good to see the Republican base is going to cling to it's bread and butter issues, rather than become a Party for the 21st century.

Abortion, creation science, guns, and bibles.

 

[Annie]

It's good to see the Republican base is going to cling to it's bread and butter issues, rather than become a Party for the 21st century.

Abortion, creation science, guns, and bibles.

I'm anti-abortion. Pro-evolution. Pro-second amendment and I think the bible a good thing.

I'm against creationism, so I guess I'm a sort of Luddite by your judgement?

 

[WillowTree]

It's good to see the Republican base is going to cling to it's bread and butter issues, rather than become a Party for the 21st century.

Abortion, creation science, guns, and bibles.

then you go build your own hospital whydoncha?

 

[xsited1]

There are a lot of Catholics who voted for Obama. He's not going to upset them.

 

[Tristan]

It's good to see the Republican base is going to cling to it's bread and butter issues, rather than become a Party for the 21st century.

Abortion, creation science, guns, and bibles.

Well, "creation science, guns, and bibles" are not at issue in this thread though I expect at least two of those to go well into the 21st century and beyond.

 

[Tristan]

There are a lot of Catholics who voted for Obama. He's not going to upset them.

Not sure if this is exactly right but I think Bush won the Catholic vote in 2004 by 5 points and Obama won the Catholic vote in 08 by around 9. That is a heck of a swing.

On edit:
That's either from the full text above or something I read related to it.

 

[WillowTree]

Not sure if this is exactly right but I think Bush won the Catholic vote in 2004 by 5 points and Obama won the Catholic vote in 08 by around 9. That is a heck of a swing.

On edit:
That's either from the full text above or something I read related to it.

remember that about 100% of hispanics are catholic!

 

[xsited1]

Not sure if this is exactly right but I think Bush won the Catholic vote in 2004 by 5 points and Obama won the Catholic vote in 08 by around 9. That is a heck of a swing.

On edit:
That's either from the full text above or something I read related to it.

That's about right. And, of course, what Willow said is absolutely correct. Obama can't be a liberal anymore unless he wants to make most of the country unhappy. If it hadn't been for Bush, Obama would never have won. (Obama always seems to be in the right place at the right time.)

 

[Tristan]

That's about right. And, of course, what Willow said is absolutely correct. Obama can't be a liberal anymore unless he wants to make most of the country unhappy. If it hadn't been for Bush, Obama would never have won. (Obama always seems to be in the right place at the right time.)

I'm sure that's true. But I don't know if it's any more true than say, Carter gave us Reagan, George "Read my lips" Bush gave us Clinton and Bill "I did not have sex with that woman" Clinton gave us Bush II the revenge of Quayle.

All that said I didn't wish to argue abortion per se, so much as maybe religious rights vs State funding of hospitals or even What Obama might take on early in his first term etc. You know, something inspired by the article as you did sir.

 

[Gunny]

It's good to see the Republican base is going to cling to it's bread and butter issues, rather than become a Party for the 21st century.

Abortion, creation science, guns, and bibles.

Do you ever get off your soapbox? It's good to see that hacks like you are going to stick to your extremism rather than become a party for the 21st century.

Try wiping that foam off your mouth and addressing the issue for once, huh?

 

[Gunny]

Not likely but not impossible.

Quick and dirty: One third of hospitals in America are Catholic hospitals. Under current law these hospitals don't have to preform abortions under a sort of "conscience objector" clause. The so called Freedom of Choice Act could change that. According to Barbara Boxer FOCA would nullify all existing laws and regulations that limit abortion in any way.

FOCA
Obama on FOCA

Lose-Lose on Abortion
Obama's threat to Catholic hospitals and their very serious counterthreat.
By Melinda Henneberger
Obama's threat to Catholic hospitals and their very serious counterthreat. - By Melinda Henneberger - Slate Magazine
-snip

-snip


The best thing that can happen to Obama is there are not enough Democrats willing to vote for FOCA and he does not have to break that promise.

As is, it won't sell. Just another broken promise. They will have to at a minimum caveat it. No way should anyone who does not believe in abortion have to carry one out.

I expected this to happen to churches with gay marriage first. The whackos are making the laws now.

 

[Tristan]

As is, it won't sell. Just another broken promise. They will have to at a minimum caveat it. No way should anyone who does not believe in abortion have to carry one out.

I expected this to happen to churches with gay marriage first. The whackos are making the laws now.

That's my impression. A lot of Dems that won in 2006 are the blue dog type. This will never reach his desk. (I hope) As long as the campaign was, and that was a pretty "old" promise anyway. Seems I recall a few other "first thing I'll do as POTUS" promises anyway. (and there are plenty of pressing issues)

 

[Gunny]

That's my impression. A lot of Dems that won in 2006 are the blue dog type. This will never reach his desk. (I hope) As long as the campaign was, and that was a pretty "old" promise anyway. Seems I recall a few other "first thing I'll do as POTUS" promises anyway. (and there are plenty of pressing issues)

I think what you would see if it DID get signed is a mass exodus to private practice. Then too, a lot of these physicians being claimed as "hopital physicans" are already in private practice. They just use the hospital's facilities. At a princely sum, I am sure.

Something like this is too polarizing and would affect too many people adversely. I don't see a politician who is already probably planning his 2012 campaign wanting that on his record.

Not to mention he's trying to fix things, not stir things up. I'd say his agenda is written for him. How he handles it will be the deciding factor.

 

[Tristan]

I think what you would see if it DID get signed is a mass exodus to private practice. Then too, a lot of these physicians being claimed as "hopital physicans" are already in private practice. They just use the hospital's facilities. At a princely sum, I am sure.

Something like this is too polarizing and would affect too many people adversely. I don't see a politician who is already probably planning his 2012 campaign wanting that on his record.

Not to mention he's trying to fix things, not stir things up. I'd say his agenda is written for him. How he handles it will be the deciding factor.

Much adu about nothing eh? Well. That's what I get for reading Slate.

 

[Gunny]

Much adu about nothing eh? Well. That's what I get for reading Slate.

No, I didn't say THAT. Crap like this NEEDS to have the light of day. This is what a segement of our society and some elected officials are trying to shove down our throats.

It needs to be out there for everyone to see just what a crock of shit it is.

 

[Skeptik]

OMG! The sky is falling! The very sky is falling on our heads, I say! Obama is going to force 1/3 of the hospitals to close, or force them to perform abortions! Oh, what is this country coming to?

What a pile of manure. Obama neither has the desire nor the authority to force all of the Catholic hospitals to perform abortions.

Now, go back to sleep. Daddy chased the Fairness doctrine monster out of the closet yesterday, so he'll chase this one out today.

Out! Out, you monsters! Get out of this closet so junior can go to sleep!

Nighty night.

 

[Gunny]

OMG! The sky is falling! The very sky is falling on our heads, I say! Obama is going to force 1/3 of the hospitals to close, or force them to perform abortions! Oh, what is this country coming to?

What a pile of manure. Obama neither has the desire nor the authority to force all of the Catholic hospitals to perform abortions.

Now, go back to sleep. Daddy chased the Fairness doctrine monster out of the closet yesterday, so he'll chase this one out today.

Out! Out, you monsters! Get out of this closet so junior can go to sleep!

Nighty night.

The pile of manure is your post. Try reading the article, huh? Obviously someone wants to try. Or is that too hard for you to figure out?

I bet you didn't even read it. You just went on the blind partisan hack attack. Thanks for validating a point a made in another thread about people not wanting to think ....

 

[Tristan]

OMG! The sky is falling! The very sky is falling on our heads, I say! Obama is going to force 1/3 of the hospitals to close, or force them to perform abortions! Oh, what is this country coming to?

What a pile of manure. Obama neither has the desire nor the authority to force all of the Catholic hospitals to perform abortions.

Now, go back to sleep. Daddy chased the Fairness doctrine monster out of the closet yesterday, so he'll chase this one out today.

Out! Out, you monsters! Get out of this closet so junior can go to sleep!

Nighty night.

A stupid man's report of what a clever man says can never be accurate, because he unconsciously translates what he hears into something he can understand.
Bertrand Russell

I'd retort but you seem to be mocking yourself with your own sig line. I should be more careful if I were you.