Will Blacks Abandon the Democrat Party?

[NYcarbineer]

It is the symbol of a group of states who tried to leave the United States in order to protect the institution of enslaving black humans.

You obviously have not idea what the civil war was about. Sad, truly sad. Thanks, teachers union. You have produced a generation of idiots.

out "it's about slavery" dude.

Preserving, protecting and expanding...slavery.

It was their literally the lifeblood of their economy.

Nearly four million men, women and children in chains out of a total population of nine million in the South. Nearly one in three southern families owned slaves. Everything was built around the institution.

The collective wealth tied up in those slaves was over 3 billion dollars.

That is yes, with a B. Three BILLION. Not in today dollars, adjusted for inflation -- Then dollars. Three BILLION in 1860 dollars.

If you wanted to buy all the railroads, factories and banks in the entire country at that time, it would have only cost you about $2.5 billion.

----> slaves were by far the largest concentration of property in the country. A stunning figure, Think on that.

The South was not about to give that up.

It was. About. Slavery. Preserving, protecting & expanding.

Wrong!! One state The Seceding states told us what the was was about, and they said straight

Stephan Dodson Ramseur, Confederate general: "...Slavery, the very source of our existence, the greatest blessing both for Master & Slave that could have been bestowed upon us."

Albert Gallatin Brown, U.S. Senator from Mississippi, December 27, 1860: "Mr. President, it seems to me that northern Senators most pertinaciously overlook the main point at issue between the two sections of our Confederacy. We claim that there is property in slaves, and they deny it. Until we shall settle, upon some basis, that point of controversy, it is idle to talk of going any further."

Richmond Enquirer, 1856: "Democratic liberty exists solely because we have slaves . . . freedom is not possible without slavery."

Atlanta Confederacy, 1860: "We regard every man in our midst an enemy to the institutions of the South, who does not boldly declare that he believes African slavery to be a social, moral, and political blessing."

G. T. Yelverton, of Coffee County, Alabama, speaking to the Alabama Secession Convention on January 25, 1861: "The question of Slavery is the rock upon which the Old Government split: it is the cause of secession."

John B. Baldwin, Augusta County delegate to the Virginia Secession Convention, March 21, 1861: "I say, then, that viewed from that standpoint, there is but one single subject of complaint which Virginia has to make against the government under which we live; a complaint made by the whole South, and that is on the subject of African slavery...."

All that proves is slavery was part of the reason and openly debated. Why not post the other debates as well, such as tariffs, states rights and other issues that surrounded the reasons for secession.

Because we are refuting the claims that it was NOT about slavery.

You and these other people's problem is, you've never argued that it was not 100% about slavery; you're claiming it was ZERO percent about slavery.

Which makes you 100% wrong.

When Lonestar gets shown he is wrong he is not man enough to simply admit it. He has to back pedal until he can find a spot and point to a technicality then claim he was right all along. Typical convict.

In keeping with my aphorism of yesterday,

Obstinance is the bodyguard of ignorance.

lol

 

[Rotagilla]

Most of those installations they "seized" were not even garrisoned. Fort Pulaski for instance...and others.
Most others, the south paid for and evacuated the troops peacefully.
Lincoln knew that attempting to resupply and reinforce ft. sumter...which was in charleston harbor...the first state to secede...would be an intolerable provocation.
He wanted war and he needed a casus belli. He saw an opportunity to provoke it iat ft. sumter...which was not even part of the u.s. at this point as they had peacefully seceded. He even admitted it;


"You and I both anticipated that the cause of the country would be advanced by making the attempt to provision Fort Sumter, even if it should fail ; and it is no small consolation now to feel that our anticipation is justified by the result. "
Abraham Lincoln, in a letter to Gustavus Fox, May 1, 1861

Major anderson was told to refuse to evacuate peacefully as lincoln sent ships and troops...to what was now a sovereign foreign nation, the CSA.
beauregard knew that the best way to prevent the invasion was to take the fort.
No one was killed and the troops were peacefully evacuated back to the north after they surrendered...but he had his excuse to attack and murder civilians, steal fellow americans property, wreck their homes and businesses, cripple the infrastructure and deprive them of their rights...because they wanted to PEACEFULLY and LEGALLY withdraw from the union...

He also admits the war was about tariffs and taxes and not about slavery.

"But what am I to do in the meantime with those men at Montgomery [meaning the Confederate constitutional convention]? Am I to let them go on... [a]nd open Charleston, etc., as ports of entry, with their ten-percent tariff. What, then, would become of my tariff?" ~ Lincoln to Colonel John B. Baldwin, deputized by the Virginian Commissioners to determine whether Lincoln would use force, April 4, 1861.

Many saw through the northern tactic to provoke a war;

"The affair at Fort Sumter, it seems to us, has been planned as a means by which the war feeling at the North should be intensified, and the administration thus receive popular support for its policy.... If the armament which lay outside the harbor, while the fort was being battered to pieces [the US ship The Harriet Lane, and seven other reinforcement ships], had been designed for the relief of Major Anderson, it certainly would have made a show of fulfilling its mission. But it seems plain to us that no such design was had. The administration, virtually, to use a homely illustration, stood at Sumter like a boy with a chip on his shoulder, daring his antagonist to knock it off. The Carolinians have knocked off the chip. War is inaugurated, and the design of the administration accomplished." ~ The Buffalo Daily Courier, April 16, 1861.

"We have no doubt, and all the circumstances prove, that it was a cunningly devised scheme, contrived with all due attention to scenic display and intended to arouse, and, if possible, exasperate the northern people against the South.... We venture to say a more gigantic conspiracy against the principles of human liberty and freedom has never been concocted. Who but a fiend could have thought of sacrificing the gallant Major Anderson and his little band in order to carry out a political game? Yet there he was compelled to stand for thirty-six hours amid a torrent of fire and shell, while the fleet sent to assist him, coolly looked at his flag of distress and moved not to his assistance! Why did they not? Perhaps the archives in Washington will yet tell the tale of this strange proceeding.... Pause then, and consider before you endorse these mad men who are now, under pretense of preserving the Union, doing the very thing that must forever divide it." ~ The New York Evening Day-Book, April 17, 1861.



The rest of the world was watching, too..It was obvious.

"Union means so many millions a year lost to the South; secession means the loss of the same millions to the North. The love of money is the root of this as of many other evils....The quarrel between the North and South is, as it stands, solely a fiscal quarrel".... Charles Dickens in a London periodical in December 1861

"The contest is really for empire on the side of the North and for independence on that of the South....". ..... London Times of 7 Nov 1861

"Slavery is not the cause of the rebellion ....Slavery is the pretext on which the leaders of the rebellion rely, 'to fire the Southern Heart' and through which the greatest degree of unanimity can be produced....Mr. Calhoun, after finding that the South could not be brought into sufficient unanimity by a clamor about the tariff, selected slavery as the better subject for agitation"..... North American Review (Boston October 1862)

"They [the South] know that it is their import trade that draws from the people's pockets sixty or seventy millions of dollars per annum, in the shape of duties, to be expended mainly in the North, and in the protection and encouragement of Northern interests....These are the reasons why these people [the North] do not wish the South to secede from the Union." ..... New Orleans Daily Crescent 21 January 1861

"In one single blow our foreign commerce must be reduced to less than one-half what it now is. Our coastwise trade would pass into other hands. One-half of our shipping would lie idle at our wharves. We should lose our trade with the South, with all of its immense profits. Our manufactories would be in utter ruins. Let the South adopt the free-trade system, or that of a tariff for revenue, and these results would likely follow." .... Chicago Daily Times December 1860

"At once shut down every Southern port, destroy its commerce and bring utter ruin on the Confederate States." ..... NY Times 22 March 1861

"the mask has been thrown off and it is apparent that the people of the principal seceding states are now for commercial independence. They dream that the centres of traffic can be changed from Northern to Southern ports....by a revenue system verging on free trade...." .... Boston Transcript 18 March 1861



He couldn't have cared less about slaves...he said so himself.

"My paramount object in this struggle is to save the Union, and is not either to save or to destroy slavery. If I could save the Union without freeing any slave I would do it, and if I could save it by freeing all the slaves I would do it; and if I could save it by freeing some and leaving others alone I would also do that. What I do about slavery, and the colored race, I do because I believe it helps to save the Union."
-- Abraham Lincoln
-From, Letter to Horace Greeley
August 22, 1862

"Negro equality! Fudge!! How long, in the government of a God great enough to make and maintain this Universe, shall there continue knave to vend, and fools to gulp, so low a piece of demagoguism as this?"
-- Abraham Lincoln
-From, Fragments: Notes for Speeches
Sept. 1859 (Vol. III)

"But what shall we do with the Negroes after they are free? I believe that it would be better to export them all to some fertile country with a good climate, which they could have to themselves."
-- Abraham Lincoln
-From, Letter to General Benjamin F. Butler
March 1865 (Vol. VII)

"I will say then that I am not, nor ever have been in favor of bringing about in any way the social and political equality of the white and black races, (applause from audience) that I am not nor ever have been in favor of making voters or jurors of Negroes, nor of qualifying them to hold office, nor to intermarry with white people. I will say in addition to this that there is a physical difference between the white and black races which I believe will forever forbid the two races living together on terms of social and political equality. And inasmuch as they cannot so live, while they do remain together there must be the position of superior and inferior, and I as much as any other man am in favor of having the superior position assigned to the white race."
-- Abraham Lincoln
-From, 4th Debate with Stephan A. Douglas in Illinois
Sept. 1858 (Vol. III)

"Judge Douglas has said to you that he has not been able to get an answer out of me to the question whether I am in favor of Negro citizenship. So far as I know, the Judge never asked me the question before. (applause from audience) He shall have no occasion to ever ask it again, for I tell him very frankly that I am not in favor of Negro citizenship. (renewed applause) If the state of Illinois has the power to grant Negroes citizenship, I shall be opposed to it. (cries of "here, here" and "good, good" from audience) That is all I have to say."
-- Abraham Lincoln
-From, Speech at Sringfield, Illinois
June 1857 (Vol. II)

"In the course of his reply, the Senator remarked that he had always considered this a government made for the white people and not for the Negroes. Why, in point of mere fact, I think so, too."
-- Abraham Lincoln
-From, Speech at Peoria, Illinois
Oct. 1854 (Vol. II)

"I think your race suffers very greatly, many of them by living among us, while ours suffers from your presence. In a word we suffer on each side. If this is admitted, it affords a reason why we should at least be separated."
-- Abraham Lincoln
-From, Address on Colonization to a Deputation of
Africans in Washington D.C.
August 1862 (Vol. V)


The lying bastard couldn't even tell the truth in his inaugural address;

Apprehension seems to exist among the people of the Southern States that by the accession of a Republican Administration their property and their peace and personal security are to be endangered. There has never been any reasonable cause for such apprehension. Indeed, the most ample evidence to the contrary has all the while existed and been open to their inspection. It is found in nearly all the published speeches of him who now addresses you. I do but quote from one of those speeches when I declare that—

I have no purpose, directly or indirectly, to interfere with the institution of slavery in the States where it exists. I believe I have no lawful right to do so, and I have no inclination to do so.

Those who nominated and elected me did so with full knowledge that I had made this and many similar declarations and had never recanted them; and more than this, they placed in the platform for my acceptance, and as a law to themselves and to me, the clear and emphatic resolution which I now read:

Resolved, That the maintenance inviolate of the rights of the States, and especially the right of each State to order and control its own domestic institutions according to its own judgment exclusively, is essential to that balance of power on which the perfection and endurance of our political fabric depend; and we denounce the lawless invasion by armed force of the soil of any State or Territory, no matter what pretext, as among the gravest of crimes.

 

[Lonestar_logic]

the confederate flag is a piece of history, it is not a symbol of racism.

It is the symbol of a group of states who tried to leave the United States in order to protect the institution of enslaving black humans.

You obviously have not idea what the civil war was about. Sad, truly sad. Thanks, teachers union. You have produced a generation of idiots.

out "it's about slavery" dude.

Preserving, protecting and expanding...slavery.

It was their literally the lifeblood of their economy.

Nearly four million men, women and children in chains out of a total population of nine million in the South. Nearly one in three southern families owned slaves. Everything was built around the institution.

The collective wealth tied up in those slaves was over 3 billion dollars.

That is yes, with a B. Three BILLION. Not in today dollars, adjusted for inflation -- Then dollars. Three BILLION in 1860 dollars.

If you wanted to buy all the railroads, factories and banks in the entire country at that time, it would have only cost you about $2.5 billion.

----> slaves were by far the largest concentration of property in the country. A stunning figure, Think on that.

The South was not about to give that up.

It was. About. Slavery. Preserving, protecting & expanding.

Wrong!! One state The Seceding states told us what the was was about, and they said straight

Stephan Dodson Ramseur, Confederate general: "...Slavery, the very source of our existence, the greatest blessing both for Master & Slave that could have been bestowed upon us."

Albert Gallatin Brown, U.S. Senator from Mississippi, December 27, 1860: "Mr. President, it seems to me that northern Senators most pertinaciously overlook the main point at issue between the two sections of our Confederacy. We claim that there is property in slaves, and they deny it. Until we shall settle, upon some basis, that point of controversy, it is idle to talk of going any further."

Richmond Enquirer, 1856: "Democratic liberty exists solely because we have slaves . . . freedom is not possible without slavery."

Atlanta Confederacy, 1860: "We regard every man in our midst an enemy to the institutions of the South, who does not boldly declare that he believes African slavery to be a social, moral, and political blessing."

G. T. Yelverton, of Coffee County, Alabama, speaking to the Alabama Secession Convention on January 25, 1861: "The question of Slavery is the rock upon which the Old Government split: it is the cause of secession."

John B. Baldwin, Augusta County delegate to the Virginia Secession Convention, March 21, 1861: "I say, then, that viewed from that standpoint, there is but one single subject of complaint which Virginia has to make against the government under which we live; a complaint made by the whole South, and that is on the subject of African slavery...."

All that proves is slavery was part of the reason and openly debated. Why not post the other debates as well, such as tariffs, states rights and other issues that surrounded the reasons for secession.

Well, we've got you from 'not the reason' to 'part of the reason'.

Now we can spend a year or so getting you to slavery being the 'primary' reason.

It wasn't the root cause for the Civil War and to say it was it just plain stupid. Not to acknowledge that for a fraction of the South that slavery was a big deal would be dishonest. Of course the ten percent that owned slaves saw things differently. Back in those times big plantation owners had political influence but slavery alone wasn't enough to get the populace to commit to war.

I have never stated that slavery had zero to do with the war between the states, I have stated and I still maintain it wasn't the primary reason.

So clarify my position<

Neither is "better". Money doesn't make you "better".

You obviously have not idea what the civil war was about. Sad, truly sad. Thanks, teachers union. You have produced a generation of idiots.

This is what secession was about:

"In the momentous step which our State has taken of dissolving its connection with the government of which we so long formed a part, it is but just that we should declare the prominent reasons which have induced our course.
Our position is thoroughly identified with the institution of slavery-- the greatest material interest of the world. Its labor supplies the product which constitutes by far the largest and most important portions of commerce of the earth. These products are peculiar to the climate verging on the tropical regions, and by an imperious law of nature, none but the black race can bear exposure to the tropical sun. These products have become necessities of the world, and a blow at slavery is a blow at commerce and civilization. That blow has been long aimed at the institution, and was at the point of reaching its consummation. There was no choice left us but submission to the mandates of abolition, or a dissolution of the Union, whose principles had been subverted to work out our ruin."

Those are, verbatim, the opening statements of Mississippi's declarations of the reasons for secession.

Avalon Project - Confederate States of America - Mississippi Secession

Now you can amuse us by trying to deny that the above is not about slavery, or,

you can shut the **** up and quit making a fool of yourself.

That's twice you idiots used Mississippi as an example. Look at the other seven states that seceded or the other states in the Confederacy and compare their reasons.

I have posted Texas' a few post back.

lol. The best part of this stupid forum stuff is when rightwingers try to deny the indisputable truth.

I'm sorry you lefturds are so ******* stupid.

I'll type slowly and maybe, just maybe you will be able to understand it. Slavery was an issue but only a small one, the broader issue was states right's, tariffs, etc.... Try to look at it logically, if you can. Only about ten percent of the South owned slaves so if slavery was the root cause, 90 percent these people would be fighting not for their interest, but for the interest of the small percentage of slave owners. Do you honestly think these people would sacrifice their lives to fight for someone else's cause?

If so, then you are dumber than dirt.

State's rights protected the right to keep slavery legal. Your mistake is trying to separate two inseparable issues. That and the fact that you're mentally retarded.

So the North went to war against slavery while maintaining their own slaves. Is that what you want everyone to believe?

The census reveals that 95% of America’s slaves were owned by just 5% of the population.

It should also be noted that secession as a doctrine was asserted by both North and South (Massachusetts threatened to secede on three separate occasions).

The Emancipation Proclamation was met in the North by laws collectively known as “Black Codes”. These laws forbade entry, travel, work or residence by African-Americans in Northern states. The Proclamation was nothing but a clever ruse to stall imminent European recognition of the Confederacy. It freed no one. Slave states remaining in the Union (in the border states) not only retained their slaves, but also benefited from the strictest enforcement of the hated Fugitive Slave Law.

Southern Heritage 411

I still cannot find your nine million blacks in the south figure anywhere in the 1860 census.

 

[Lonestar_logic]

That's hilarious coming from an idiot that doesn't have a clue as to what they're talking about.

The majority of Texans did not own slaves; those who did owned very few. Within the slaveholding population, the majority owned fewer than five slaves, with a quarter of slave owners owning only one. A fifth of the Lone Star slaveholders owned 96 percent of the claves. Only sixty Texans owned a hundred or more....

The lie that only very few southerners owned slaves is a particularly rampant one in the Lost Cause meme.

Heard time and time again is the apology to somehow cast the southerners who went to war as fighting only for a noble cause, and not to protect slavery.

But when you consider more than one on four rebels who took up arms against the North came from slaveholding families (and one in two in a few other states) it presents a different picture.

One could say, yes, well, those were families - just because pop owned the slave, doesn't mean the boys did too.

However, that slave labor on their property, in some form or another, helped provide them food, shelter and money, and also helped formulate their future wealth they could, and most often did, inherit.

Slave labor provided so much of just about everything when it came to the commerce of the South.

The vast majority of slaveholding families (just shy of 90%) had under 20 slaves, 50% under 5. Now consider the sheer volume of slaves: Just shy of 4 million. Out of a total 9 million populace.

Slavery was everywhere, and touched their lives in every way -- they were full up to the brim in it, immersed in it, and that is why the "most southerners didn't own slaves" -- while true in raw numbers -- belies the notion in actuality those boys were fighting to preserve what they knew was literally their lifeblood.

You and Assclaps are two of a kind. Ignore the facts when it doesn't fit your narrative. Call everything a lie you don't agree with.

You never did tell me where you got the NINE MILLION blacks figure from.

After I showed that there were only 4.5 million blacks in the US according to the 1860 census, you clammed up about it.

Further proof you are mentally retarded. I never said there were nine million blacks. I said the total population of the south was nine million.

I only said it about twelve times, and underlined it for you. And repeated it again. And again.

Idiot.

No you never made your comment clear. Maybe in your warped mind you thought so.

 

[Lonestar_logic]

It is the symbol of a group of states who tried to leave the United States in order to protect the institution of enslaving black humans.

You obviously have not idea what the civil war was about. Sad, truly sad. Thanks, teachers union. You have produced a generation of idiots.

out "it's about slavery" dude.

Preserving, protecting and expanding...slavery.

It was their literally the lifeblood of their economy.

Nearly four million men, women and children in chains out of a total population of nine million in the South. Nearly one in three southern families owned slaves. Everything was built around the institution.

The collective wealth tied up in those slaves was over 3 billion dollars.

That is yes, with a B. Three BILLION. Not in today dollars, adjusted for inflation -- Then dollars. Three BILLION in 1860 dollars.

If you wanted to buy all the railroads, factories and banks in the entire country at that time, it would have only cost you about $2.5 billion.

----> slaves were by far the largest concentration of property in the country. A stunning figure, Think on that.

The South was not about to give that up.

It was. About. Slavery. Preserving, protecting & expanding.

Wrong!! One state The Seceding states told us what the was was about, and they said straight

Stephan Dodson Ramseur, Confederate general: "...Slavery, the very source of our existence, the greatest blessing both for Master & Slave that could have been bestowed upon us."

Albert Gallatin Brown, U.S. Senator from Mississippi, December 27, 1860: "Mr. President, it seems to me that northern Senators most pertinaciously overlook the main point at issue between the two sections of our Confederacy. We claim that there is property in slaves, and they deny it. Until we shall settle, upon some basis, that point of controversy, it is idle to talk of going any further."

Richmond Enquirer, 1856: "Democratic liberty exists solely because we have slaves . . . freedom is not possible without slavery."

Atlanta Confederacy, 1860: "We regard every man in our midst an enemy to the institutions of the South, who does not boldly declare that he believes African slavery to be a social, moral, and political blessing."

G. T. Yelverton, of Coffee County, Alabama, speaking to the Alabama Secession Convention on January 25, 1861: "The question of Slavery is the rock upon which the Old Government split: it is the cause of secession."

John B. Baldwin, Augusta County delegate to the Virginia Secession Convention, March 21, 1861: "I say, then, that viewed from that standpoint, there is but one single subject of complaint which Virginia has to make against the government under which we live; a complaint made by the whole South, and that is on the subject of African slavery...."

All that proves is slavery was part of the reason and openly debated. Why not post the other debates as well, such as tariffs, states rights and other issues that surrounded the reasons for secession.

Because we are refuting the claims that it was NOT about slavery.

You and these other people's problem is, you've never argued that it was not 100% about slavery; you're claiming it was ZERO percent about slavery.

Which makes you 100% wrong.

When Lonestar gets shown he is wrong he is not man enough to simply admit it. He has to back pedal until he can find a spot and point to a technicality then claim he was right all along. Typical convict.

First you have to show where I'm wrong.

So far no one has.

Although you were shown to be wrong and I have yet to see you admit it.

 

[paperview]

Kay, Mr. Lost Causer. You've convinced yourself with cherry picks and lunacy.

We know the foundation from the Constitutional Convention forward, to things like the Missouri Compromise, the Nullification Crisis, the Compromise of 1850, the Kansas-Nebraska Act, the 1852 SC Convention, Bleeding Kansas, the Dred Scott decision, the John Brown Affair, the threatened expansion of slavery in other territories... and every other ******* detail that led up to the Civil War...and what was the basis.

The rest of the world knows it to.

Go fly your rebel flag, dress up in gray and play slavemaster proud scout for all I care.

You do your fellow conservatives proud to hold up the banner of owning a race of human beings as farm animals.

Raise the flag high and give it your best to bellow for your white supremacist fellows!

 

[Lonestar_logic]

Kay, Mr. Lost Causer. You've convinced yourself with cherry picks and lunacy.

We know the foundation from the Constitutional Convention forward, to things like the Missouri Compromise, the Nullification Crisis, the Compromise of 1850, the Kansas-Nebraska Act, the 1852 SC Convention, Bleeding Kansas, the Dred Scott decision, the John Brown Affair, the threatened expansion of slavery in other territories... and every other ******* detail that led up to the Civil War...and what was the basis.

The rest of the world knows it to.

Go fly your rebel flag, dress up in gray and play slavemaster proud scout for all I care.

You do your fellow conservatives proud to hold up the banner of owning a race of human beings as farm animals.

Raise the flag high and give it your best to bellow for your white supremacist fellows!

States rights.

 

[rightwinger]

<I don't doubt for a minute if the republican party could find a way to legalize slavery, they'd do it. >

--- oh damn, was that my outside voice? --

Either that or find a way to pay people riduculously low wages that they can barely afford to live on

That's exactly why you guys want the border open...So you can exploit illegals, displace american workers and drive down fair wages for americans ....which would keep more people dependent on gvmt. and gvmt "programs" ....which leads to votes.

Why isn't the border closed?

I'm all for throwing employers in jail

Do that and you don't even need a fence

Keeping illegals from crossing our borders is a better solution than jailing americans. you libs never cease to amaze me with your hate of american businesses.

If those who profit off of illegal labor go to jail there will be no need to secure the border

No jobs....no reason to cross

 

[paperview]

Oh, and Fort Sumter was ceded to the US Government by SC in 1836.

Also, your "What, then, would become of my tariff?" is bogus. No record of Lincoln saying that. It comes from hearsay, and no evidence he ever said that.

 

[paperview]

Kay, Mr. Lost Causer. You've convinced yourself with cherry picks and lunacy.

We know the foundation from the Constitutional Convention forward, to things like the Missouri Compromise, the Nullification Crisis, the Compromise of 1850, the Kansas-Nebraska Act, the 1852 SC Convention, Bleeding Kansas, the Dred Scott decision, the John Brown Affair, the threatened expansion of slavery in other territories... and every other ******* detail that led up to the Civil War...and what was the basis.

The rest of the world knows it to.

Go fly your rebel flag, dress up in gray and play slavemaster proud scout for all I care.

You do your fellow conservatives proud to hold up the banner of owning a race of human beings as farm animals.

Raise the flag high and give it your best to bellow for your white supremacist fellows!

States rights.

States rights to own slaves.

 

[rightwinger]

<I don't doubt for a minute if the republican party could find a way to legalize slavery, they'd do it. >

--- oh damn, was that my outside voice? --

Either that or find a way to pay people riduculously low wages that they can barely afford to live on

Republicans want a flood of productivity's wealth generation going up to the rich on a promise that a little of it will trickle back down.

Horseshit. the gap between rich and poor has grown under obama. His policies have helped his rich buddies and done nothing for the middle and lower classes.

Can you specify which policies have done that?

Can you? its a fact and it occured under obama.

Swing and a miss!

It is your claim...back it up

 

[Rotagilla]

<I don't doubt for a minute if the republican party could find a way to legalize slavery, they'd do it. >

--- oh damn, was that my outside voice? --

Either that or find a way to pay people riduculously low wages that they can barely afford to live on

That's exactly why you guys want the border open...So you can exploit illegals, displace american workers and drive down fair wages for americans ....which would keep more people dependent on gvmt. and gvmt "programs" ....which leads to votes.

Why isn't the border closed?

I'm all for throwing employers in jail

Do that and you don't even need a fence

Keeping illegals from crossing our borders is a better solution than jailing americans. you libs never cease to amaze me with your hate of american businesses.

If those who profit off of illegal labor go to jail there will be no need to secure the border

No jobs....no reason to cross

You can't prove that.
Closing the border stops it immediately.
Explain the benefits of an open border, anyway? Why is it good for a country to not now who enters?

 

[Asclepias]

You obviously have not idea what the civil war was about. Sad, truly sad. Thanks, teachers union. You have produced a generation of idiots.

out "it's about slavery" dude.

Preserving, protecting and expanding...slavery.

It was their literally the lifeblood of their economy.

Nearly four million men, women and children in chains out of a total population of nine million in the South. Nearly one in three southern families owned slaves. Everything was built around the institution.

The collective wealth tied up in those slaves was over 3 billion dollars.

That is yes, with a B. Three BILLION. Not in today dollars, adjusted for inflation -- Then dollars. Three BILLION in 1860 dollars.

If you wanted to buy all the railroads, factories and banks in the entire country at that time, it would have only cost you about $2.5 billion.

----> slaves were by far the largest concentration of property in the country. A stunning figure, Think on that.

The South was not about to give that up.

It was. About. Slavery. Preserving, protecting & expanding.

Wrong!! One state The Seceding states told us what the was was about, and they said straight

Stephan Dodson Ramseur, Confederate general: "...Slavery, the very source of our existence, the greatest blessing both for Master & Slave that could have been bestowed upon us."

Albert Gallatin Brown, U.S. Senator from Mississippi, December 27, 1860: "Mr. President, it seems to me that northern Senators most pertinaciously overlook the main point at issue between the two sections of our Confederacy. We claim that there is property in slaves, and they deny it. Until we shall settle, upon some basis, that point of controversy, it is idle to talk of going any further."

Richmond Enquirer, 1856: "Democratic liberty exists solely because we have slaves . . . freedom is not possible without slavery."

Atlanta Confederacy, 1860: "We regard every man in our midst an enemy to the institutions of the South, who does not boldly declare that he believes African slavery to be a social, moral, and political blessing."

G. T. Yelverton, of Coffee County, Alabama, speaking to the Alabama Secession Convention on January 25, 1861: "The question of Slavery is the rock upon which the Old Government split: it is the cause of secession."

John B. Baldwin, Augusta County delegate to the Virginia Secession Convention, March 21, 1861: "I say, then, that viewed from that standpoint, there is but one single subject of complaint which Virginia has to make against the government under which we live; a complaint made by the whole South, and that is on the subject of African slavery...."

All that proves is slavery was part of the reason and openly debated. Why not post the other debates as well, such as tariffs, states rights and other issues that surrounded the reasons for secession.

Because we are refuting the claims that it was NOT about slavery.

You and these other people's problem is, you've never argued that it was not 100% about slavery; you're claiming it was ZERO percent about slavery.

Which makes you 100% wrong.

When Lonestar gets shown he is wrong he is not man enough to simply admit it. He has to back pedal until he can find a spot and point to a technicality then claim he was right all along. Typical convict.

First you have to show where I'm wrong.

So far no one has.

Although you were shown to be wrong and I have yet to see you admit it.

I showed you to be wrong on several topics in this one thread alone convict. You back pedaled as usual. Since you know you are wrong my job is done.

 

[Lonestar_logic]

Kay, Mr. Lost Causer. You've convinced yourself with cherry picks and lunacy.

We know the foundation from the Constitutional Convention forward, to things like the Missouri Compromise, the Nullification Crisis, the Compromise of 1850, the Kansas-Nebraska Act, the 1852 SC Convention, Bleeding Kansas, the Dred Scott decision, the John Brown Affair, the threatened expansion of slavery in other territories... and every other ******* detail that led up to the Civil War...and what was the basis.

The rest of the world knows it to.

Go fly your rebel flag, dress up in gray and play slavemaster proud scout for all I care.

You do your fellow conservatives proud to hold up the banner of owning a race of human beings as farm animals.

Raise the flag high and give it your best to bellow for your white supremacist fellows!

States rights.

States rights to own slaves.

The North also owned slaves so to think they went to war to stop slavery is just plain stupid. But go ahead, stay stuck on stupid.

 

[Rotagilla]

Oh, and Fort Sumter was ceded to the US Government by SC in 1836.

Also, your "What, then, would become of my tariff?" is bogus. No record of Lincoln saying that. It comes from hearsay, and no evidence he ever said that.

It's cited...who it was said to, where it was said and the date.

but ok..I'll let you ignore that one...what about the others? Try to wriggle out of that.

LMAO..and what about black slaveholders? Any comments?

 

[paperview]

You obviously have not idea what the civil war was about. Sad, truly sad. Thanks, teachers union. You have produced a generation of idiots.

out "it's about slavery" dude.

Preserving, protecting and expanding...slavery.

It was their literally the lifeblood of their economy.

Nearly four million men, women and children in chains out of a total population of nine million in the South. Nearly one in three southern families owned slaves. Everything was built around the institution.

The collective wealth tied up in those slaves was over 3 billion dollars.

That is yes, with a B. Three BILLION. Not in today dollars, adjusted for inflation -- Then dollars. Three BILLION in 1860 dollars.

If you wanted to buy all the railroads, factories and banks in the entire country at that time, it would have only cost you about $2.5 billion.

----> slaves were by far the largest concentration of property in the country. A stunning figure, Think on that.

The South was not about to give that up.

It was. About. Slavery. Preserving, protecting & expanding.

Wrong!! One state The Seceding states told us what the was was about, and they said straight

Stephan Dodson Ramseur, Confederate general: "...Slavery, the very source of our existence, the greatest blessing both for Master & Slave that could have been bestowed upon us."

Albert Gallatin Brown, U.S. Senator from Mississippi, December 27, 1860: "Mr. President, it seems to me that northern Senators most pertinaciously overlook the main point at issue between the two sections of our Confederacy. We claim that there is property in slaves, and they deny it. Until we shall settle, upon some basis, that point of controversy, it is idle to talk of going any further."

Richmond Enquirer, 1856: "Democratic liberty exists solely because we have slaves . . . freedom is not possible without slavery."

Atlanta Confederacy, 1860: "We regard every man in our midst an enemy to the institutions of the South, who does not boldly declare that he believes African slavery to be a social, moral, and political blessing."

G. T. Yelverton, of Coffee County, Alabama, speaking to the Alabama Secession Convention on January 25, 1861: "The question of Slavery is the rock upon which the Old Government split: it is the cause of secession."

John B. Baldwin, Augusta County delegate to the Virginia Secession Convention, March 21, 1861: "I say, then, that viewed from that standpoint, there is but one single subject of complaint which Virginia has to make against the government under which we live; a complaint made by the whole South, and that is on the subject of African slavery...."

All that proves is slavery was part of the reason and openly debated. Why not post the other debates as well, such as tariffs, states rights and other issues that surrounded the reasons for secession.

Because we are refuting the claims that it was NOT about slavery.

You and these other people's problem is, you've never argued that it was not 100% about slavery; you're claiming it was ZERO percent about slavery.

Which makes you 100% wrong.

When Lonestar gets shown he is wrong he is not man enough to simply admit it. He has to back pedal until he can find a spot and point to a technicality then claim he was right all along. Typical convict.

First you have to show where I'm wrong.

So far no one has.

Although you were shown to be wrong and I have yet to see you admit it.

You've been shown to be not only wrong, but incredibly slow to even understand simple words. Nine year old children can comprehend better.

As carb has said: "Obstinance is the bodyguard of ignorance."

You're probably too stupid to even understand the quote.

 

[paperview]

Kay, Mr. Lost Causer. You've convinced yourself with cherry picks and lunacy.

We know the foundation from the Constitutional Convention forward, to things like the Missouri Compromise, the Nullification Crisis, the Compromise of 1850, the Kansas-Nebraska Act, the 1852 SC Convention, Bleeding Kansas, the Dred Scott decision, the John Brown Affair, the threatened expansion of slavery in other territories... and every other ******* detail that led up to the Civil War...and what was the basis.

The rest of the world knows it to.

Go fly your rebel flag, dress up in gray and play slavemaster proud scout for all I care.

You do your fellow conservatives proud to hold up the banner of owning a race of human beings as farm animals.

Raise the flag high and give it your best to bellow for your white supremacist fellows!

States rights.

States rights to own slaves.

The North also owned slaves so to think they went to war to stop slavery is just plain stupid. But go ahead, stay stuck on stupid.

The North didn't go to war to stop slavery.

More stupid.

The South *did* go to war to preserve, protect and defend it though.

 

[NYcarbineer]

You obviously have not idea what the civil war was about. Sad, truly sad. Thanks, teachers union. You have produced a generation of idiots.

out "it's about slavery" dude.

Preserving, protecting and expanding...slavery.

It was their literally the lifeblood of their economy.

Nearly four million men, women and children in chains out of a total population of nine million in the South. Nearly one in three southern families owned slaves. Everything was built around the institution.

The collective wealth tied up in those slaves was over 3 billion dollars.

That is yes, with a B. Three BILLION. Not in today dollars, adjusted for inflation -- Then dollars. Three BILLION in 1860 dollars.

If you wanted to buy all the railroads, factories and banks in the entire country at that time, it would have only cost you about $2.5 billion.

----> slaves were by far the largest concentration of property in the country. A stunning figure, Think on that.

The South was not about to give that up.

It was. About. Slavery. Preserving, protecting & expanding.

Wrong!! One state The Seceding states told us what the was was about, and they said straight

Stephan Dodson Ramseur, Confederate general: "...Slavery, the very source of our existence, the greatest blessing both for Master & Slave that could have been bestowed upon us."

Albert Gallatin Brown, U.S. Senator from Mississippi, December 27, 1860: "Mr. President, it seems to me that northern Senators most pertinaciously overlook the main point at issue between the two sections of our Confederacy. We claim that there is property in slaves, and they deny it. Until we shall settle, upon some basis, that point of controversy, it is idle to talk of going any further."

Richmond Enquirer, 1856: "Democratic liberty exists solely because we have slaves . . . freedom is not possible without slavery."

Atlanta Confederacy, 1860: "We regard every man in our midst an enemy to the institutions of the South, who does not boldly declare that he believes African slavery to be a social, moral, and political blessing."

G. T. Yelverton, of Coffee County, Alabama, speaking to the Alabama Secession Convention on January 25, 1861: "The question of Slavery is the rock upon which the Old Government split: it is the cause of secession."

John B. Baldwin, Augusta County delegate to the Virginia Secession Convention, March 21, 1861: "I say, then, that viewed from that standpoint, there is but one single subject of complaint which Virginia has to make against the government under which we live; a complaint made by the whole South, and that is on the subject of African slavery...."

All that proves is slavery was part of the reason and openly debated. Why not post the other debates as well, such as tariffs, states rights and other issues that surrounded the reasons for secession.

Because we are refuting the claims that it was NOT about slavery.

You and these other people's problem is, you've never argued that it was not 100% about slavery; you're claiming it was ZERO percent about slavery.

Which makes you 100% wrong.

When Lonestar gets shown he is wrong he is not man enough to simply admit it. He has to back pedal until he can find a spot and point to a technicality then claim he was right all along. Typical convict.

First you have to show where I'm wrong.

So far no one has.

Although you were shown to be wrong and I have yet to see you admit it.

You were wrong when you said this:

"It wasn't about slavery. Nothing could actually be further from the truth."

And you were proven wrong by your own admission that slavery was part of it.

Now you're still wrong to claim that slavery was only a small part of it. Slavery was the biggest part of it.

 

[NYcarbineer]

out "it's about slavery" dude.

Preserving, protecting and expanding...slavery.

It was their literally the lifeblood of their economy.

Nearly four million men, women and children in chains out of a total population of nine million in the South. Nearly one in three southern families owned slaves. Everything was built around the institution.

The collective wealth tied up in those slaves was over 3 billion dollars.

That is yes, with a B. Three BILLION. Not in today dollars, adjusted for inflation -- Then dollars. Three BILLION in 1860 dollars.

If you wanted to buy all the railroads, factories and banks in the entire country at that time, it would have only cost you about $2.5 billion.

----> slaves were by far the largest concentration of property in the country. A stunning figure, Think on that.

The South was not about to give that up.

It was. About. Slavery. Preserving, protecting & expanding.

Wrong!! One state The Seceding states told us what the was was about, and they said straight

Stephan Dodson Ramseur, Confederate general: "...Slavery, the very source of our existence, the greatest blessing both for Master & Slave that could have been bestowed upon us."

Albert Gallatin Brown, U.S. Senator from Mississippi, December 27, 1860: "Mr. President, it seems to me that northern Senators most pertinaciously overlook the main point at issue between the two sections of our Confederacy. We claim that there is property in slaves, and they deny it. Until we shall settle, upon some basis, that point of controversy, it is idle to talk of going any further."

Richmond Enquirer, 1856: "Democratic liberty exists solely because we have slaves . . . freedom is not possible without slavery."

Atlanta Confederacy, 1860: "We regard every man in our midst an enemy to the institutions of the South, who does not boldly declare that he believes African slavery to be a social, moral, and political blessing."

G. T. Yelverton, of Coffee County, Alabama, speaking to the Alabama Secession Convention on January 25, 1861: "The question of Slavery is the rock upon which the Old Government split: it is the cause of secession."

John B. Baldwin, Augusta County delegate to the Virginia Secession Convention, March 21, 1861: "I say, then, that viewed from that standpoint, there is but one single subject of complaint which Virginia has to make against the government under which we live; a complaint made by the whole South, and that is on the subject of African slavery...."

All that proves is slavery was part of the reason and openly debated. Why not post the other debates as well, such as tariffs, states rights and other issues that surrounded the reasons for secession.

Because we are refuting the claims that it was NOT about slavery.

You and these other people's problem is, you've never argued that it was not 100% about slavery; you're claiming it was ZERO percent about slavery.

Which makes you 100% wrong.

When Lonestar gets shown he is wrong he is not man enough to simply admit it. He has to back pedal until he can find a spot and point to a technicality then claim he was right all along. Typical convict.

First you have to show where I'm wrong.

So far no one has.

Although you were shown to be wrong and I have yet to see you admit it.

You've been shown to be not only wrong, but incredibly slow to even understand simple words. Nine year old children can comprehend better.

As carb has said: "Obstinance is the bodyguard of ignorance."

You're probably too stupid to even understand the quote.

These people adhere to the false belief that you can't be proven wrong unless someone gets you to admit you were wrong. It's always been that way with the rightwing cult...

...I can't be wrong unless I say 'uncle!'.

 

[Lonestar_logic]

out "it's about slavery" dude.

Preserving, protecting and expanding...slavery.

It was their literally the lifeblood of their economy.

Nearly four million men, women and children in chains out of a total population of nine million in the South. Nearly one in three southern families owned slaves. Everything was built around the institution.

The collective wealth tied up in those slaves was over 3 billion dollars.

That is yes, with a B. Three BILLION. Not in today dollars, adjusted for inflation -- Then dollars. Three BILLION in 1860 dollars.

If you wanted to buy all the railroads, factories and banks in the entire country at that time, it would have only cost you about $2.5 billion.

----> slaves were by far the largest concentration of property in the country. A stunning figure, Think on that.

The South was not about to give that up.

It was. About. Slavery. Preserving, protecting & expanding.

Wrong!! One state The Seceding states told us what the was was about, and they said straight

Stephan Dodson Ramseur, Confederate general: "...Slavery, the very source of our existence, the greatest blessing both for Master & Slave that could have been bestowed upon us."

Albert Gallatin Brown, U.S. Senator from Mississippi, December 27, 1860: "Mr. President, it seems to me that northern Senators most pertinaciously overlook the main point at issue between the two sections of our Confederacy. We claim that there is property in slaves, and they deny it. Until we shall settle, upon some basis, that point of controversy, it is idle to talk of going any further."

Richmond Enquirer, 1856: "Democratic liberty exists solely because we have slaves . . . freedom is not possible without slavery."

Atlanta Confederacy, 1860: "We regard every man in our midst an enemy to the institutions of the South, who does not boldly declare that he believes African slavery to be a social, moral, and political blessing."

G. T. Yelverton, of Coffee County, Alabama, speaking to the Alabama Secession Convention on January 25, 1861: "The question of Slavery is the rock upon which the Old Government split: it is the cause of secession."

John B. Baldwin, Augusta County delegate to the Virginia Secession Convention, March 21, 1861: "I say, then, that viewed from that standpoint, there is but one single subject of complaint which Virginia has to make against the government under which we live; a complaint made by the whole South, and that is on the subject of African slavery...."

All that proves is slavery was part of the reason and openly debated. Why not post the other debates as well, such as tariffs, states rights and other issues that surrounded the reasons for secession.

Because we are refuting the claims that it was NOT about slavery.

You and these other people's problem is, you've never argued that it was not 100% about slavery; you're claiming it was ZERO percent about slavery.

Which makes you 100% wrong.

When Lonestar gets shown he is wrong he is not man enough to simply admit it. He has to back pedal until he can find a spot and point to a technicality then claim he was right all along. Typical convict.

First you have to show where I'm wrong.

So far no one has.

Although you were shown to be wrong and I have yet to see you admit it.

You've been shown to be not only wrong, but incredibly slow to even understand simple words. Nine year old children can comprehend better.

As carb has said: "Obstinance is the bodyguard of ignorance."

You're probably too stupid to even understand the quote.

Wrong about what?

Black confederate soldiers? I was right, both of you were wrong.

Civil War was over slavery? I conceded it was an issue but a small one, you think it was the greater issue no matter the fact that the ones you claim set out to fight against slavery also had slaves themselves. And the fact that about ten percent of the South actually owned slaves, but you would have us to believe the other ninety percent sacrificed their lives so that the ten percent could keep slaves.

So, no I haven't been shown to be wrong about anything.