Why Trump will Win the General Election, and Not just the Primary

[John Edgar Slow Horses]

No, sir.

If the prosecution hands me documents and says, "these are the pages that are going to convict you, Seymour," you better believe I want my lawyer to look at each and ever page of every document.

The scan and sort may help to prioritize documents, but that would just be the first step. Each document would have to be read thoroughly, and the ones that are actually valid, read more than once, by more than one lawyer.

That "AI will handle it" is a deliberate fantasy, created only for the purpose of justifying an election-based trial schedule.

That's not the way works, Seymour. The Judge will back it my way. I know how the back offices of legal firms work. The paralegals know what they are doing and what they are looking for. You are living in fantasy if you don't think AI that chats with thousands and thousand of documents will find thinks humans will not.

 

[Zincwarrior]

More likely they will think " That orange bastard is a crook and only wants the presidency to avoid prison and to exact revenge."

If he won he immediately faces a 25th amendment issue.

 

[Zincwarrior]

Trump is channeling Winston Churchill, "Never Surrender."

More Al Capone than Churchill.

 

[Seymour Flops]

That's not the way works, Seymour. The Judge will back it my way. I know how the back offices of legal firms work. The paralegals know what they are doing and what they are looking for. You are living in fantasy if you don't think AI that chats with thousands and thousand of documents will find thinks humans will not.

Alright, you tell me.

How much time will a human spend on average with each of the 12.8 million documents?

 

[Zincwarrior]

There are four separate indictments in four different locations. The prosecution just announced that they have shared 12.8 million documents as part of discovery. How many lawyers will it take to go through them?

Let’s do the math:

12,800,000 documents. Average one hour per document just for the initial examination.

12.8 million hours divided by 8 equal 1.6 million workdays.

Divide by 260 work days in a year (which assumes no holidays at all), and that is 6,153 years for one lawyer, 615 years for 10 lawyers, 61.5 years for a hundred lawyers, 6.1 years for a thousand lawyers, or .61 years for ten thousand lawyers.

So - theoretically - ten thousand lawyers working at full efficiency with no holidays could theoretically do the initial examination of the documents in order to sort them in six or seven months. Just to meet the election-based timeline that the prosecutors are pursuing.

That’s just the initial sort, it doesn’t cover analysis of those found to actually be relevant and not smoke screens by the prosecution. It doesn’t cover motions, pre-trial arguments, witness selection and preparation, strategy setting, and all of the other pre-trial activities that every other defendant is allowed to do.

All it would take would be one of those thousands of lawyers having a bad day (perhaps annoyed at working on Labor Day) to miss a vital point in one of the millions of documents and cause the Trump team to fail to recognize exculpatory evidence in that document.

That is the Jan 6th indictment alone.

The prosecution is using the standard trick of overwhelming the defense with a flood of documents. It is not usually coupled with insisting on an early trial date to prevent the defense from having any chance to prepare.

That’s what happens when the prosecution aims at an election result instead of a trial result.

The premise that the indictments are helping Trump politically? That premise is not really in doubt.

Yes, you tried to answer a similar question. More than your fellow Dems did.

But you did not cite the part of the indictments that cited those laws, and listed those actions.

Entitlement was H. Clinton keeping thousands of classified documents in an unsecure location, refusing to turn them over, destroying the servers and other devices on which she had unlawfully stored them and being let off by a politically motivated DOJ, right after the head of the DOJ had a private conference on the tarmac with B. Clinton.

He is a billionaire. Thats his problem.

 

[John Edgar Slow Horses]

Depends on which documents are pulled up and how many.

I don't think the great majority of people realize the information gathering, sifting, and exposition processes work and what the strength of the product harvested.

 

[BluesLegend]

More Al Capone than Churchill.

Biden is like a really really stupid Al Capone.

 

[Seymour Flops]

He is a billionaire. Thats his problem.

It will be the TDS folk's problem.

They may go 'round the bend when the judge gets reversed on appeal for making it impossible for Trump to defend himself.

 

[forkup]

Alright, you tell me.

How much time will a human spend on average with each of the 12.8 million documents?

Millions of Pages of Documents Is No Reason to Delay Trump’s January 6 Trial

We’ve litigated cases with far more paperwork than that. The task was manageable and, crucially, fair.

www.theatlantic.com

Even before the very latest technologies, a single reviewer could do thousands of pages a day, and we have known the better reviewers working for us to reach 10,000 pages a day. It is not unusual to have teams of dozens of document reviewers, allowing the rapid review of large volumes of documents.

That's what actual lawyers have to say. Mind you, as has been stated to you by multiple people. That's not how it works in actuality. Since most of the process is computerized now.

We are talking about someone who has for all intents and purposes unlimited means to defend himself.

You are suggesting that he for some reason should be awarded 3 years to prepare because according to you a single lawyer would have to leisurely spell-check every single document for some reason. And he, and he alone should be able afforded the opportunity to do so.

It is simply ludicrous.

 

[bdtex]

So many of these USMB MAGAcon threads are gonna age so badly. It's gonna be fun to watch.

 

[forkup]

Alright, you tell me.

How much time will a human spend on average with each of the 12.8 million documents?

Even before the very latest technologies, a single reviewer could do thousands of pages a day, and we have known the better reviewers working for us to reach 10,000 pages a day. It is not unusual to have teams of dozens of document reviewers, allowing the rapid review of large volumes of documents.

Millions of Pages of Documents Is No Reason to Delay Trump’s January 6 Trial

We’ve litigated cases with far more paperwork than that. The task was manageable and, crucially, fair.

www.theatlantic.com

This is what actual lawyers have to say.

And mind you the process is quicker now.

For reference. Enron a case that involved hundreds of millions of documents in discovery went from indictment to first conviction in 4 months

The whole concept that because a single lawyer leisurely reading every letter in discovery. Would take x-amount of time and therefore Trump, a man with nearly unlimited means to hire a whole team of paralegals to do the physical work. Something that by itself is ludicrous. Should be awarded 3 years to prepare is crazy.

 

[John Edgar Slow Horses]

Those with Trump Devotion Syndrome are going to so unhappy when Trump is convicted.

 

[Seymour Flops]

Millions of Pages of Documents Is No Reason to Delay Trump’s January 6 Trial

We’ve litigated cases with far more paperwork than that. The task was manageable and, crucially, fair.

www.theatlantic.com

Even before the very latest technologies, a single reviewer could do thousands of pages a day, and we have known the better reviewers working for us to reach 10,000 pages a day. It is not unusual to have teams of dozens of document reviewers, allowing the rapid review of large volumes of documents.

That's what actual lawyers have to say. Mind you, as has been stated to you by multiple people. That's not how it works in actuality. Since most of the process is computerized now.

We are talking about someone who has for all intents and purposes unlimited means to defend himself.

You are suggesting that he for some reason should be awarded 3 years to prepare because according to you a single lawyer would have to leisurely spell-check every single document for some reason. And he, and he alone should be able afforded the opportunity to do so.

It is simply ludicrous.

Before I respond to the points that you made, do you acknowledge how absurdly biased the Atlantic magazine is?

Assuming that this sorting process would actually work, how many documents will humans actually have to look at of those 12.8 million documents? How long on average will a human spend with each one of them?

 

[forkup]

Before I respond to the points that you made, do you acknowledge how absurdly biased the Atlantic magazine is?

Assuming that this sorting process would actually work, how many documents will humans actually have to look at of those 12.8 million documents? How long on average will a human spend with each one of them?

But “how much of discovery could be categorized as witness statements and notes?” asks Chutkan. Gaston isn’t sure. She flips through some papers at the podium. Thirty seconds go by. Her colleague, Windom, starts flipping through his notes from his seat at the table. Chutkan is unbothered by the brief pause. She waits. She jots a few notes down. At last, Gaston responds: “Your Honor, 58,000 pages are from witness interview folders”; this includes transcripts of the interviews, as well as audio recordings. The transcripts, audio recordings, and accompanying exhibits have been turned over to the defense “in an organized fashion,” says Gaston.

The judge and counsel finish by tying up loose ends. Of the open source material available, such as tweets and Truth Social posts, Gaston states the total is 27,000 pages. And 25 percent of the first production and 20 percent of the second production include documents from the Trump campaign and a few different PACs. And in the key documents page, Gaston notes that the 47,000 pages include case agent summary testimony and exhibits introduced through the grand jury, such as transcripts of witness testimony and testimony before the Jan. 6 House select committee. Finally, nearly 300 pages are “labeled and named according to the paragraph of the indictment they support.” What these 300 pages represent is “essentially a roadmap,” concludes Gaston. “These are the documents the government may use at trial.”

Chutkan sits back in her chair for a moment and takes it all in. “I’ll note that many years ago, when I was trying murder and conspiracy cases in Superior Court, we got witness names on the day of trial” and testimony in the grand jury sometimes after a witness testified, she says. “While discovery rules of this court provide far more disclosure, the manner in which discovery has been organized here” indicates the government has made a considerable effort to expedite review “beyond their normal obligations.”

Trump Has Jan. 6 Trial Date, and It’s the Eve of Super Tuesday

A dispatch from Judge Tanya Chutkan’s courtroom.

www.lawfaremedia.org

So from your 12 million pages 85000 Are actually applicable at the trial. The rest is either duplicate, public or already gone over by Trump's lawyers.

As for your question. Considering that obviously lawyers have dealt with larger discoveries in the past. See my Enron remark. Less then the 3 years demanded by the defense.

By the way, calling out bias, only works if you have an actual way to counter the content otherwise it's just one of your many fallacious arguments.

 

[Seymour Flops]

So from your 12 million pages 85000 Are actually applicable at the trial. The rest is either duplicate, public or already gone over by Trump's lawyers.

So you are accusing the prosecution of turning over 12,715,000 documents as part of discovery that are not actually applicable at the trial? And mixing the 85,000 documents that are actually relevant?

Sounds like black letter prosecutorial misconduct.

But you need to read that quote more carefully. It talks about 85,000 pages not 85,000 documents. It does not say or imply that those pages are the only evidence.

Of course you are wrong. Any of the 12.8 million may be used to try to convict Trump in the trial, regardless of the judges guesses about how many might actually be used. That's what discovery is. For the lawyers for Trump not to look at them would be malpractice of the worst kind. To force the trial to go ahead before Trump's lawyers can look at them would be reversible error.

As for your question. Considering that obviously lawyers have dealt with larger discoveries in the past. See my Enron remark. Less then the 3 years demanded by the defense.

Your "remark" is not evidence. Post a link about Enron and I'll see if it is relevant.

By the way, calling out bias, only works if you have an actual way to counter the content otherwise it's just one of your many fallacious arguments.

I do have a way to counter the content, but first I want to know if you know how biased that source is. An honesty test, if you will.

Here is another one: True or false, the judge is setting this early trial date because she wants it to start before the election.

Also, you need to answer as to how long a human will have to look at each document.

 

[rightwinger]

Biden 306
Trump 232

Nothing has changed

Trump will still lose Arizona, Georgia, Pennsylvania, Michigan and Wisconsin

All lean blue

 

[surada]

So many of these USMB MAGAcon threads are gonna age so badly. It's gonna be fun to watch.

Trump says he saved us from nuclear war.

https://www.axios.com/2023/08/31/trump-new-york-testimony-letitia-james-unsealed

 

[John Edgar Slow Horses]

There is no judge misconduct by Judge Chutkin. There is poster misconduct by Flops for not understanding the nature and limits of discovery.

 

[GMCGeneral]

Biden 306
Trump 232

Nothing has changed

Trump will still lose Arizona, Georgia, Pennsylvania, Michigan and Wisconsin

All lean blue

Only in the urban shitholes. They need to be eliminated

 

[rightwinger]

Only in the urban shitholes. They need to be eliminated

Those urban shitholes support flyover country