Have you talked to a highschool student these days .
One thing is sure they are whining little assholes that have no common sense and cry constantly. I think teachers or should I say the school system is why
Why would you ever blame teachers? Are you one of those whining little assholes too?
You cannot make chicken salad out of chicken shit!
Well..... sometimes I think many teachers are to blame. Not all obviously.
So years ago, my church had a roof problem, and we had to meet at a local school instead. We were meeting in the tutoring room.
The room was filled, top to bottom with Pandas. Photos of Pandas, pictures of Pandas, drawings of Pandas, picture books of pandas.... on and on and on.
What wasn't in the room anywhere that I could tell, was a multiplication table.... or reading books, or literature, or anything that would suggest a place of learning. There were painted trees on the wall, to make it look like where Panda's would be living. But nothing on the wall to make it look like where children would be learning.
The exact opposite experience from a private school I visited. There was nothing but multiplication tables, and sentence structure, and everything in the room was designed for the purpose of learning.
Now unless you would suggest that was because of school management, I think it was the teacher who influenced how those rooms were setup.
It is possible that some teachers are really trying their best, and not succeeding. If that is the case, then I still lay some of the blame at the foot of teachers, because they are still defending this system.
If you are trying your best, and you cannot succeed because "You cannot make chicken salad out of chicken shit" then the first thing you should be on board with is, changing the system.
But teachers oppose changes to the system at every single turn. So in that regard, they absolutely are to blame for the bad quality of education.
Few things here:
-Decorations on the wall doesn't equal learning or teaching-it's also dependent on the subject taught. I don't math, but what do you think a kid would actually retain math skills from more, having to memorize formulas and use them on tests-or not have to memorize them, look at them on the wall and follow the instructions given?
-One classroom is hardly an accurate analysis of the education system as a whole
-Public school teachers almost always have stricter evaluations than their private school peers
-It's naturally easier to have better results in a private school than a public school because private schools can kick out "those" kids, whereas public has to take everybody. Class full of gang members and students in sever poverty or a class full of upper middle class kids? Pretty easy to see which class is more likely to perform better in school
-Teachers have ZERO say in the curriculum (at least in my district). I can add additional content that I deem fit, but I have to cover the curriculum...which is put into place by politicians-NOT teachers
-I don't know a single teacher (and I literally know 50-60, and know hundreds in passing) that is against alternative schools instead of a traditional high school, so students learn a trade. Of course the core class like math, science, English would still be taught.
1. Decorations on the wall doesn't equal learning or teaching
And yet private schools routinely out perform public schools.
2. Public school teachers almost always have stricter evaluations than their private school peers
And yet private schools routinely out perform public schools, and more cheaply.
3. It's naturally easier to have better results in a private school than a public school because private schools can kick out "those" kids, whereas public has to take everybody.
Ok? So lets emulate private schools in public schools.
4. Teachers have ZERO say in the curriculum (at least in my district). I can add additional content that I deem fit, but I have to cover the curriculum...which is put into place by politicians-NOT teachers
Ok? So lets emulate private schools in public schools.
5. I don't know a single teacher (and I literally know 50-60, and know hundreds in passing) that is against alternative schools
You say that, and yet I read about teachers being against charter and private schools, routinely.
And then you have the other side, which is that you see unions organizing strikes and walks out constantly, and lobbying government to prevent such things.
If a teacher supports a union, that is actively preventing students from getting a better education... then their lack of action in support of what is best for students, makes them as guilty in causing bad education.
The bottom line is.....
We have a problem in the education system. To me, all the stuff you listed are endless excuses to continue a bad system. When nearly every single college and university is being forced to provide remedial courses, because people can't do High School level math, reading and writing.... the system is failing.
How does the fact that teachers do not have control over curriculum, make a difference? If you are telling me the curriculum is bad, and the teachers have no control.... then why are private schools doing a better job? Do teachers have more control over curriculum in private schools?
Then that is yet another reason to move to a private school system.
If you are telling me the politicians are intervening in the system and causing the problems, then is that not yet another reason to move to private school system?
So public schools cannot remove problem kids that disrupt the class, and won't do the work to learn anyway? But private schools can? So isn't that alone, a reason to move to a private school system?
Again... Plan A sucks, and doesn't work. We need to move to a plan B. If you are telling me there are these issues, that are causing our system to fail.... then we need a new system, or to eliminate the current system.
Now you say decorations do not matter, and you can say public teachers have stricter whatever, but the fact still remains that private schools have better results for a lower cost.
So I honestly don't know what makes a good school or a bad school. I don't know if plastering the walls with Pandas, instead of multiplication tables, makes a difference. I don't know if having novels with words, instead of picture books of pandas, makes a difference.
What I do know is that a lousy public school with low results and high costs, had things setup one way, and a private school with low costs and high results had it another way.
Now if teachers have a fix, then they need to make those fixes policy. They have a large union system, and they can use those unions to lobby to make the fixes, instead of lobbying against charter schools.
My problem is, every time I see teachers protesting, it's for more money, and to eliminate charter schools. Schools do not more money. We have the most expensive school system on the entire face of the Earth. We spend more money per student than any other country on planet, and we get crappy results relative to the cost. And instead of promoting schools that get better results for a lower cost, they fight to force more students into a bad system.
If teachers have a solution, that doesn't involve forcing kids into bad schools, and demanding more money.... then provide that solution. I'll listen to it. Lets hear the fix.
I've had 3 different conversations about this exact topic, and all three times, no solution was ever given.
I'm not making any excuses. I stand behind my performance. My students routinely beat my district, school, and state average on standardized testing (this includes private schools), in terms of gains.
Starting salary in my district is $38K/year. I know what I signed up for...but let's not pretending like teachers are living high on the hog. My district also pays more than most neighboring ones.
Teachers have zero say in any "fixes" that they could potentially offer the school system. Again, read.
I'm all for alternative schools to put students in situations where they can succeed. I stated such earlier in this thread, as well as mentioning that most teachers agree with this assessment. Read.
I never mentioned charter schools whatsoever, so that's completely irrelevant. The local charter school near me recently closed down due to lack of demand.
As for solutions:
Invest in alternative schools where students still learn their core classes (math, science, English, social studies), but also learn a trade for later in life. This will solve TONS of issues in the education system.
Invest more in teacher bonuses, to promote achievement for students.
Invest in classroom infrastructure (working printers, technology, air conditioning, etc).
PS: The Republican governor of my state has suggested doing all of the above.
Stop making this about you. I don't know you. You might be the best teacher that has ever lived. Both my parents were public school teachers. Both got awards for their teaching ability for decades. Literally. By father was in for 38 years, and was the schools elected teachers union representative, and I could tell you a few other things, but you would know who he was. My mother was a teacher for 40 years, and then was rehired after retiring, for another 5 years. Every time we go anywhere, they get stopped by former students.
They might have been the best teachers of their generation, I don't know. They might have had the best students in their time, I don't know.
I'm looking at the system over all. Not individual situation. No matter how you look at our school system, as a whole.... the conclusions are inescapable. We spend more than any other country in the world, on K-12 education, and we end up with mediocre results. We have a national problem of colleges needing to put in place dozens of remedial classes, to get supposedly high school educated students, up to high school education.
Something is wrong.
Why are so many top students in remedial classes?
How do so many top students end up in remedial classes?
High schoolers do the hard work to reach their dream of attending college only to find themselves in remedial classes because high school left them unprepared.
FAIL! Something is wrong!!!
Teachers have zero say in any "fixes" that they could potentially offer the school system.
I don't buy that. Because if I see teachers protesting education policy, then apparently they do have a "say". Again, if you can protest wages, and protest charter school, which I have seen several times in the last 5 years.... then you are protesting a potential fix to the system. If you can protest a solution, then you had better offer a solution.
If teachers can't offer a solution, then I don't want to see teachers protesting.
That is how life works. If you can cause a problem by protesting, but can't provide a solution, then
you yourself are a problem.
I'm all for alternative schools to put students in situations where they can succeed. I stated such earlier in this thread, as well as mentioning that most teachers agree with this assessment. Read.
I did read. One internet poster, does not make national movement, anymore than my posts do.
You and one other, on an internet forum, do not make a majority. When I look around at the outside world, I don't see people like you supporting people having options.
https://psmag.com/economics/why-cant-charter-schools-and-teachers-unions-be-friends
The real reason teachers' unions oppose charter schools
Here in Ohio, teachers have been entirely against charter schools.
Opinion: Charter schools are draining LA's public schools. That's why I'm on strike
In LA, teachers oppose charter schools.
Teachers' union considers hard line on charter schools
How many more examples do you need?
And if you are teachers, and you fund these unions, don't tell me "I don't support what the unions are doing" because you do.
So I'm not seeing actions that back up the words you wrote on here.
Invest more in teacher bonuses, to promote achievement for students.
Bonuses? We already have the most expensive education system in the world. You know that over in Finland, the starting pay is $34K to 35K? So they are starting out at a lower wage than you are, and they supposedly have a better education system than we do.
Oh, and they are paying much higher taxes on that $34K. Not school taxes. Finland is spending less per student, than in the US.
The solution is not throwing more money at a system that doesn't work. Any solution you bring that involves more money, I call BS.
Invest in classroom infrastructure (working printers, technology, air conditioning, etc).
Again, bull crap. Private schools spend a ton less money per student, and achieve better results, and they have "working printers, technology, air conditioning, etc".
By the way, technology does not increase education. That mythology. You don't need a working printer, to teach long division. I know, because I was taught such things, without a printer.
Finland did research on this, and found ZERO evidence that technology improved learning. None.
During my Junior year, I was unfortunate enough to go to an inner city school for half a day. It was a huge mistake. I was sitting next to a guy who was in my grade, who asked me how to do a simple long division problem. Something along the lines of 3 divide by 7. I looked at him like he was insane. Pulled out a pen and paper, and he stopped me "No, I mean on this calculator", and slid it over to me.
How can a guy get into 11th grade, and not know how to do long division, without a calculator, let alone with one? You think giving this idiot a working printer and a laptop, is going to help?
You don't need a printer to teach this guy basic math. You need a teacher that is going to start doing their job and teaching.
And if that kid was simply refusing to learn, he should have never been accepted into high school, and certainly no teachers should have allowed him to graduate from 10th grade. Somewhere, a teacher is at fault for him reaching the 11th grade without basic 7th grade math skills.
No, you don't need more money. I'm sorry. Any argument of "well invest in this!".... NO! You don't need more money! You need a system that works. You need to change the policies, or completely rebuild the system from scratch, or we need to simply eliminate the system all together.
But don't give me this we just need more investment crap. No we don't. We have high schools, that are massive, with multi-million dollar football stadiums. You don't need more money.
The school system needs to shape up, and start getting the bang for the buck, or they need to be eliminated.
I was look at some high schools in Finland. One of the public high schools, was an office complex. Cheap. Cost effective. Efficient.
Didn't need a massive square mile campus. Didn't need private sports stadium. Why? BECAUSE THEY ARE TEACHING.... the point of school is to educate, not all this other nonsense.
