Why only a "progressive" income tax?

[thereisnospoon]

A lefty talking about "imaginary" Classic.

Compared to the idiot in the thread who thinks the progressive income tax is Marxism ?

So answer the question.

Why not apply the so called progressive tax to everything?

Why not lower the speed limit to 1 mile per hour in school zones?

You're an idiot. You prove it here every day.

That's apples and orangutans

But you don't understand the difference you prove it here every day

The speed limit here in school zones is 15 mph. Is that a good thing? Yes? Then why not lower it to 10, or 5, 1?

Isn't that even better?

Deflection. Straw man argument. Rejected.

 

[thereisnospoon]

You love the progressive tax system don't you?

Why not apply it everywhere?

Because I'm smarter than you are.

So it's not a good tax scheme

It's a better tax system than a flat tax because in relative terms the flat tax reduces taxes on the rich and raises taxes on the not rich.

I'm not comparing it to a flat tax system Moron

I'm asking that if it's good enough for income why not everything else

And I can give you an example of how a flat tax won't reduce the taxes the rich pay

Say you make 10 Million off in investments a year (hilarious I know but bear with me)

Now you can give all kids of money to charity and get a deduction, you can take a mortgage interest deduction etc lowering your income to 7 million a year and you only pay 15% of 7M or 1.05M in taxes

If you paid a flat 12% on ALL the money you earned you would have paid 1.2M in taxes

Capital gains are taxed differently.

So you're not going to address the issue?

 

[thereisnospoon]

The 4 bedroom house in the same neighborhood as the 2bedroom house pays a higher property tax.

The reason the federal income taxes are fair is because near all other taxes are REGRESSIVE TAXES, and hits those with less income MORE than the person with a lot of money....

Flat state income taxes,

all gvt fees and licensing uses more of a lower income family than a higher income family

State sales taxes also hurt the lower incomes at a higher rate of their income used,

And fed and state gas taxes hit those with less at a higher percentage of their income t Han the wealthiest as well

And then add mandatory health insurance which hits the middle class income more than the wealthiests income....

Then there is cigarette taxes and liquor taxes that hit the wealthiest in the least compared to those with less income....

SS TAXES hit all of the middle class and below incomes while not hitting all of the wealthiest.

The progressive income tax helps compensate the regressive tax burdens elsewhere.

Ok, your post is the best illustration of the attitude of the left regarding taxation. That you people believe taxation exists in the notion of fairness. Or for "getting even".
No, it does NOT.
First off, no earner pays state income taxes until they have earned a certain adjusted gross income for a year.
Licensing fees and other fees. Fees are the result of choice. If one does not wish to pay a fee, they simply do not use the product or service which requires the fees.
For example, if one does not wish to use a toll road, they may use other roads. If they do not wish to pay fees for say, renting a car, using a commercial aircraft, etc, they are free to use their own vehicle.
Fuel taxes. If one does not wish to pay fuel taxes, they are free to use public transportation or they may use human power. Again....choices
Mandatory health insurance...As a liberal who supported and still does support Obamacare, you have NO RIGHT to complain about "mandatory" expenses for health insurance. You wanted ACA to be the law, you got it. In it's entirety. There is no "do over".....Or 'it's not fair that people have to pay for their insurance".....You made your bed. Now you get to sleep in it.
Alcohol and tobacco taxes....Please. Again, if one does not wish to pay these taxes, they are free to NOT drink or smoke.
Social Security? The darling program of the Left. Do not go there.
Stop your complaining.

 

[thereisnospoon]

Progressive income taxes are based on the subjective marginal utility analysis that basically says idiots in government can decide if you "need" all the money you make or not and that they are justified in taking the money they decide you don't "need"

Well all of you who love this type of blatantly unfair tax scheme I ask you why stop at income?

Why not use progressive tax schemes for everything that is taxed?

Let's say you own a 4 bedroom home but you and your wife have only 1 kid. You only "need" 2 bedrooms so some moron in your state government can decide that those 2 bedrooms must be taken from you and given to someone else and then inserts 2 people into your home because they "need" those rooms and you don't

What about a vacation home? Surely you don't "need" that if you only use it on occasion.

You and your wife have 2 cars and you have your dream car in the garage you don't need that classic 1969 GTO so why not let the government take it from you to give to someone who does "need" it

I bet that sounds like a great plan to some of you doesn't it?

It most likely doesn't seem like a great plan to me, my take is it is an absurd mini rant by someone who hates taxes and doesn't understand that a flat tax is a paved road to a Plutocracy.

We got a Republic, and people like you don't understand a progressive income tax is today more important than ever before. The CU & McCutcheon 5-4 decisions have moved us to the tipping point of losing what our founders left us.

Why is a progressive tax more important than ever before?
Explain. Use your own words. Facts only.

 

[Dont Taz Me Bro]

Compared to the idiot in the thread who thinks the progressive income tax is Marxism ?

In 1848 Marx and Engels proposed that progressive taxation be used “to wrest, by degrees, all capital from the bourgeois, to centralize all instruments of production in the hands of the state.”Although communism has failed, the idea of progressive taxation, as a means of achieving “social justice,” remains ingrained in the modern liberal psyche.

Ending Tax Socialism

 

[thereisnospoon]

Progressive income taxes are based on the subjective marginal utility analysis that basically says idiots in government can decide if you "need" all the money you make or not and that they are justified in taking the money they decide you don't "need"

Well all of you who love this type of blatantly unfair tax scheme I ask you why stop at income?

Why not use progressive tax schemes for everything that is taxed?

Let's say you own a 4 bedroom home but you and your wife have only 1 kid. You only "need" 2 bedrooms so some moron in your state government can decide that those 2 bedrooms must be taken from you and given to someone else and then inserts 2 people into your home because they "need" those rooms and you don't

What about a vacation home? Surely you don't "need" that if you only use it on occasion.

You and your wife have 2 cars and you have your dream car in the garage you don't need that classic 1969 GTO so why not let the government take it from you to give to someone who does "need" it

I bet that sounds like a great plan to some of you doesn't it?

It most likely doesn't seem like a great plan to me, my take is it is an absurd mini rant by someone who hates taxes and doesn't understand that a flat tax is a paved road to a Plutocracy.

We got a Republic, and people like you don't understand a progressive income tax is today more important than ever before. The CU & McCutcheon 5-4 decisions have moved us to the tipping point of losing what our founders left us.

Then explain why the "progressive" tax is great for income but not for anything else?

Why not pay more sales tax on your second third and fourth giant flat screen TVs than you do on the first?

ANd I don't mind paying taxes I just don't like unfair taxes

I oppose "unfair" spending. if government were run like a business where revenues were looked upon as finite, waste and fraud would be reduced. At that point the complaints about taxation would all but disappear.

 

[thereisnospoon]

THE WEALTHY pay the same income tax on their income as the middle class does for all the tax bracket income they make.

The wealthy do not pay more on the first, 100k earned, as example.

But the SAME.

What the hell does that mean?
I think you really should decease and stand down because you do not have a clue as to the subject matter here.
In the two posts I have seen by you in this thread, you've done nothing but express these notions based solely on your emotions.

 

[Staidhup]

If for one minute one can justify 73900+ pages of the US Tax code and consider it fair, justified, yet progressive, and not devoid of political cronyism is spewing nothing short of deceit. Simplification of the tax code remains the only viable solution for establishing an environment of government transparency and accountability, which this government and those in support of a omnipotent centralization of power is reluctant to embrace. The underlying question remains, is this a government of the people or a government unto itself? The issue of fairness in taxation is just another covert excuse to expand the scope and power of the government with the intent of forcing the surrender and extraction of your personal rights and freedoms.

 

[NYcarbineer]

Compared to the idiot in the thread who thinks the progressive income tax is Marxism ?

In 1848 Marx and Engels proposed that progressive taxation be used “to wrest, by degrees, all capital from the bourgeois, to centralize all instruments of production in the hands of the state.”Although communism has failed, the idea of progressive taxation, as a means of achieving “social justice,” remains ingrained in the modern liberal psyche.

Ending Tax Socialism

So? Ideologies overlap all the time. You could as easily say that because Marx supported a progressive income tax,
he was a constitutional democratic republican.

 

[thereisnospoon]

If you want to argue against imaginary scenarios you need to find some imaginary people to take the other side?

You love the progressive tax system don't you?

Why not apply it everywhere?

Because I'm smarter than you are.

That's true, but probably not something to brag about. A pair of old gym socks are smarter than him.

So you won't answer the question either

This is called a debate so tell me why progressive taxes are good for income but not for example sales taxes?

No. This is not a debate. This is a forum where I can laugh at stupid right wing claims. If you understood and accepted the nature of facts, we could debate, but sadly the right has shown that is not possible.

Wow.
Newsflash. Yes this IS a debate. You refuse to participate because you don't like where the debate is going. So be it.
Your reaction simply confirms that you as a liberal have no answers in rebuttal.
So just stay out of it. Don't post.

 

[NYcarbineer]

Compared to the idiot in the thread who thinks the progressive income tax is Marxism ?

In 1848 Marx and Engels proposed that progressive taxation be used “to wrest, by degrees, all capital from the bourgeois, to centralize all instruments of production in the hands of the state.”Although communism has failed, the idea of progressive taxation, as a means of achieving “social justice,” remains ingrained in the modern liberal psyche.

Ending Tax Socialism

The KKK believes we are a Christian Nation. Does that mean every person who agrees is a Klansman?

 

[thereisnospoon]

So it's not a good tax scheme

It's a better tax system than a flat tax because in relative terms the flat tax reduces taxes on the rich and raises taxes on the not rich.

I'm not comparing it to a flat tax system Moron

I'm asking that if it's good enough for income why not everything else

And I can give you an example of how a flat tax won't reduce the taxes the rich pay

Say you make 10 Million off in investments a year (hilarious I know but bear with me)

Now you can give all kids of money to charity and get a deduction, you can take a mortgage interest deduction etc lowering your income to 7 million a year and you only pay 15% of 7M or 1.05M in taxes

If you paid a flat 12% on ALL the money you earned you would have paid 1.2M in taxes

Capital gains are taxed differently.

Not under the flat tax I have been proposing they aren't

I used capital gains because you were whining that the rich would get a tax cut if we used a flat tax I showed you how they wouldn't

Your incomprehensible example didn't prove anything.

BTW, if you exempt money earned at the bottom in a flat tax system, it's no longer flat. Do you?

Who said anything regarding exemptions?

 

[NYcarbineer]

Progressive income taxes are based on the subjective marginal utility analysis that basically says idiots in government can decide if you "need" all the money you make or not and that they are justified in taking the money they decide you don't "need"

Well all of you who love this type of blatantly unfair tax scheme I ask you why stop at income?

Why not use progressive tax schemes for everything that is taxed?

Let's say you own a 4 bedroom home but you and your wife have only 1 kid. You only "need" 2 bedrooms so some moron in your state government can decide that those 2 bedrooms must be taken from you and given to someone else and then inserts 2 people into your home because they "need" those rooms and you don't

What about a vacation home? Surely you don't "need" that if you only use it on occasion.

You and your wife have 2 cars and you have your dream car in the garage you don't need that classic 1969 GTO so why not let the government take it from you to give to someone who does "need" it

I bet that sounds like a great plan to some of you doesn't it?

It most likely doesn't seem like a great plan to me, my take is it is an absurd mini rant by someone who hates taxes and doesn't understand that a flat tax is a paved road to a Plutocracy.

We got a Republic, and people like you don't understand a progressive income tax is today more important than ever before. The CU & McCutcheon 5-4 decisions have moved us to the tipping point of losing what our founders left us.

Why is a progressive tax more important than ever before?
Explain. Use your own words. Facts only.

It's more important than ever before because the current economic forces are shifting more and more of America's wealth toward the wealthy.

 

[NYcarbineer]

It's a better tax system than a flat tax because in relative terms the flat tax reduces taxes on the rich and raises taxes on the not rich.

I'm not comparing it to a flat tax system Moron

I'm asking that if it's good enough for income why not everything else

And I can give you an example of how a flat tax won't reduce the taxes the rich pay

Say you make 10 Million off in investments a year (hilarious I know but bear with me)

Now you can give all kids of money to charity and get a deduction, you can take a mortgage interest deduction etc lowering your income to 7 million a year and you only pay 15% of 7M or 1.05M in taxes

If you paid a flat 12% on ALL the money you earned you would have paid 1.2M in taxes

Capital gains are taxed differently.

Not under the flat tax I have been proposing they aren't

I used capital gains because you were whining that the rich would get a tax cut if we used a flat tax I showed you how they wouldn't

Your incomprehensible example didn't prove anything.

BTW, if you exempt money earned at the bottom in a flat tax system, it's no longer flat. Do you?

Who said anything regarding exemptions?

Every serious flat tax proposal I've ever seen.

 

[thereisnospoon]

Because I'm smarter than you are.

That's true, but probably not something to brag about. A pair of old gym socks are smarter than him.

So you won't answer the question either

This is called a debate so tell me why progressive taxes are good for income but not for example sales taxes?

No. This is not a debate. This is a forum where I can laugh at stupid right wing claims. If you understood and accepted the nature of facts, we could debate, but sadly the right has shown that is not possible.

So you're incapable of answering the question
Got it.

No, I'm not interested in wasting time answering questions from you.

Because you either cannot answer the questions, refuse to answer or you know the answers will not favor the ideology of your side.

 

[NYcarbineer]

To implement a flat tax, all else being equal, you will lower the rate on the richest, therefore they will pay less.

Somewhere, someone else has to make up the difference? Who's left?

Yes, the middle and low income groups. They will have to pay more.

 

[thereisnospoon]

I'm not comparing it to a flat tax system Moron

I'm asking that if it's good enough for income why not everything else

And I can give you an example of how a flat tax won't reduce the taxes the rich pay

Say you make 10 Million off in investments a year (hilarious I know but bear with me)

Now you can give all kids of money to charity and get a deduction, you can take a mortgage interest deduction etc lowering your income to 7 million a year and you only pay 15% of 7M or 1.05M in taxes

If you paid a flat 12% on ALL the money you earned you would have paid 1.2M in taxes

Capital gains are taxed differently.

Not under the flat tax I have been proposing they aren't

I used capital gains because you were whining that the rich would get a tax cut if we used a flat tax I showed you how they wouldn't

Your incomprehensible example didn't prove anything.

BTW, if you exempt money earned at the bottom in a flat tax system, it's no longer flat. Do you?

Who said anything regarding exemptions?

Every serious flat tax proposal I've ever seen.

And? That is not the subject matter of the thread.
Nobody cares what you have seen. That isn't the issue here.
And let us suppose for a moment, your view is correct. So what?....An exemption for lower income earners only makes sense.

 

[Timmy]

Doesn't this "fairness "' imply that there is a fairness in gov services provided?

Don't rich people get more use out of the government ?

I don't own any patents . Why should I pay for the patent office ?

I Maybe fly 2x a year . Why should I pay the same tax rate for the rich guy who flies all the time . He's using the FAA and public airports a lot more than I am .

 

[NYcarbineer]

Capital gains are taxed differently.

Not under the flat tax I have been proposing they aren't

I used capital gains because you were whining that the rich would get a tax cut if we used a flat tax I showed you how they wouldn't

Your incomprehensible example didn't prove anything.

BTW, if you exempt money earned at the bottom in a flat tax system, it's no longer flat. Do you?

Who said anything regarding exemptions?

Every serious flat tax proposal I've ever seen.

And? That is not the subject matter of the thread.
Nobody cares what you have seen. That isn't the issue here.
And let us suppose for a moment, your view is correct. So what?....An exemption for lower income earners only makes sense.

But giving lower income earners a break isn't FAIR according to the OP. Go argue with him

 

[thereisnospoon]

Not under the flat tax I have been proposing they aren't

I used capital gains because you were whining that the rich would get a tax cut if we used a flat tax I showed you how they wouldn't

Your incomprehensible example didn't prove anything.

BTW, if you exempt money earned at the bottom in a flat tax system, it's no longer flat. Do you?

SO wait

15% of 7 million as compared to 12% of 10 million is incomprehensible to you?

That's so sad

Go back and lay out your entire tax system, in detail, from which you are pulling the above hypothetical numbers.

My god



In the flat tax system I have been talking about every dollar earned will be taxed at the same rate no matter what the source there will be no deductions at all

can you understand that?

IOW you're hawking a fantasy.

You're going to put a $2400 annual income tax on someone making minimum wage of what, 16,000 a year...

lol good one.

First, 12% of 16k is not 2400. it is 1920. Almost $500 less than your knee jerk amount.
And yes, that IS an appropriate amount. Why shouldn't lower income earners have some skin in the game?