Why is jesus not a jew in churches?

[Foxfyre]

Some of you people speak about the details of Christianity as though all Christians were on the same page about their religion.

They're most definitely not.

The "Trinity" is a perfect example of that.

Not every Christian believes in that.

Hell there are branches of Christianty that don't believe Jesus was devine, too.

Of course the RC chruch did its best to create and impose their dogma on the rest of Christendom but they failed to end the debates.

The branches of Christianity that don't believe in the divinity of Christ are by definition, NOT Christian.

In my understanding of what Christianity is I agree, yet THEY see themselves as Christian and define themselves as such. We sometimes walk a fine line in the designations--sort of like can a Jew accept Christ and still be a Jew? I say yes. Others here say no. It's all in how rigid one wishes to make the definition.

 

[CMike]

They are one and the same, you clearly do not understand Christianity.

Obviously they are not.

According to jesus, he prayed to god, and talked to god. That means that they were two separate entities.

Your god is not my god.

Also something else I wanted to deal with.

The true jewish heroes were the ones that took toture and death rather than convert to Christianity.

One of the most famous was a person called Rabbi Akiva. He was burned at the stake and the christians made sure it was a slow death.

As he was dying he telled out the most important prayer in judaism "Hear O'Israel The Lord is our G-D, The Lord is One".

What does jesus say "G-D why have you forsaken me"?

That is another difference between a true jewish leader/hero, and someone whom is not.

Where is what I bolded documented?

I don't care to spend the time to find it.

Either believe me or don't. The actual person's name is irrelevant to my point.

My point as demonstrated by numerous jewish heroes is how they died compared to the wussy way that jesus died.

 

[Foxfyre]

Jews believe that G-d is one and indivisible. Christians believe that G-d is a triparte, a piece of pie that is cut in three but retaining the oneness as it is still one pie.

It is the major singular belief of monotheism. Jews do not cut our lord into pieces.

Shema Yisrael -- "Hear O Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is One" -- is perhaps the most famous of all Jewish sayings. It is the most integral to who we are.

That's why Jews can not be Christians, and Christians can not be Jews. They can be Jewish by race, but not a Jew which is considered by race and belief AND practice. There is a big difference between a Jew and being Jewish. A Jew can become a Christian, but when they do, they lose their contact to the Jewish G-d as a practicing Jew.

I have met Jews for Christ. They are not Jews for Christ. They are Jewish people who have converted their belief of Judaism into Christianity. They are Jewish people for Christ. They practice Christianity, not Judaism.

Christianity and rabbinic Judaism emerged as rival claimants to continuity with Israel after the destruction of the Jewish temple in 70 AD. Since Christians have long held political power over them, Jews’ opposition to Christian claims about Jesus are not only theological (a denial that Jesus is the messiah) but essential to Jewish identity and survival. That’s why Jews tend to be more tolerant of other Jews who dabble in, say, Buddhist thought and practice than of those who move toward Christianity. Harris-Shapiro underscores a basic Jewish concern with Christian evangelizing of Jews "The problem with proselytization is [that] the already-small Jewish community is shrinking. There is real fear of our disappearance."

Clicky

I wish them the best. In the fullness of time we shall see what we shall see. Until then, it is all belief.

Jew = Race and Belief
Jewish = Of the Jewish Race and by extension practicing their Belief
Judaisim = the Belief of the Jewish people

My view, at any rate.

And exactly what is it about Judaism and Chritianity that you think is so mutually exclusive that one cannot observe the religious practices, and even beliefs, of both?

I would love to know when it was that Trinitarianism became standardized across all Christian denominations, and where I was when it happened, because I don't seem to have gotten the official memo on the subject. Exactly who decided that this was the case?

I presume you are being tongue in cheek here because beliefs about the Trinity have NEVER been standardized within Christendom. Despite the fact that there is zero emphasis on a "Trinity" in the Bible, that one doctrine has been the most contentuous of any other throughout Church history. It was the single most prevalent issue re Christians persecuting other Christians, the single most prevalent 'crime' for which people were excommunicated from the early Roman Catholic Church. Despite the fact that it was heatedly debated at the councils, there was never a full consensus of what the correct belief about it was supposed to be. It's hard enough to find two Christians, much less two denominations these days that teach the doctrine exactly the same way.

 

[CMike]

Mike, no one is saying that Jews weren't persecuted
but you made a claim about that Rabbi that was totally false, i looked up the man and found proof, then you tried to claim it was another Rabbi
THAT is totally dishonest

No it wasn't, it was a story that I read some time ago. It wasn't based on the specific individual.

My point was that the jewish heroes went out proclaiming how great G-D is, jesus complained to god.

There were a ton of Rabbi Akivas. In Christianity there are a lot of Maries, in judaism there are a lot of Akivas, I didn't think I had to talk about the specific person.

I am not doing that much research about someone who was incidental to my point.

You lied, and not only that you have no integrity either.

So, Mike, when the Messiah does finally come, as you must believe he will, will he be God in the flesh? If so, how does that differ from Jesus Christ?

You haven't been listening obviously.

There is only one G-D. There will only be one G-D. There has been only one G-D.

This is what the Lord says—I am the first and I am the last; apart from Me there is no god. (Isaiah, 44:6)

Repeat after me, go ahead you can do it -ONE,

Try Again -- ONE

One more time -- ONE


The messianic prophesies are pretty clear they are in Michah 4:3 and Ezekiel 37

Michah 4

3. And he shall judge between many peoples and reprove mighty nations afar off; and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruning hooks; nations shall not lift the sword against nation; neither shall they learn war anymore.(World Peace)

Ezekiel 37

21. And say to them, So says the Lord God: Behold I will take the children of Israel from among the nations where they have gone, and I will gather them from every side, and I will bring them to their land. כא. (All the jews will be brought to Israel


22. And I will make them into one nation in the land upon the mountains of Israel, and one king shall be to them all as a king; and they shall no longer be two nations, neither shall they be divided into two kingdoms anymore. כב. (One unified king)


23. And they shall no longer defile themselves with their idols, with their detestable things, or with all their transgressions, and I will save them from all their habitations in which they have sinned, and I will purify them, and they shall be to Me as a people, and I will be to them as a God. כג. (All nations will worship one G-D)



24. And My servant David shall be king over them, and one shepherd shall be for them all, and they shall walk in My ordinances and observe My statutes and perform them. כד. (A descendent from David. Trial lineage BTW goes solely from the father)


25. And they shall dwell on the land that I have given to My servant, to Jacob, wherein your forefathers lived; and they shall dwell upon it, they and their children and their children's children, forever; and My servant David shall be their prince forever. כה. (All the jews will stay in Israel forever)



26. And I will form a covenant of peace for them, an everlasting covenant shall be with them; and I will establish them and I will multiply them, and I will place My Sanctuary in their midst forever. כו. (The temple in jerusalem will be rebuilt and stand forever)


27. And My dwelling place shall be over them, and I will be to them for a God, and they shall be to Me as a people. כז.


28. And the nations shall know that I am the Lord, Who sanctifies Israel, when My Sanctuary is in their midst forever." Once again the temple in jerusalem will be rebuilt forever)


How many did jesus fulfill? ZERO

 

[CMike]

Some of you people speak about the details of Christianity as though all Christians were on the same page about their religion.

They're most definitely not.

The "Trinity" is a perfect example of that.

Not every Christian believes in that.

Hell there are branches of Christianty that don't believe Jesus was devine, too.

Of course the RC chruch did its best to create and impose their dogma on the rest of Christendom but they failed to end the debates.

The branches of Christianity that don't believe in the divinity of Christ are by definition, NOT Christian.

In my understanding of what Christianity is I agree, yet THEY see themselves as Christian and define themselves as such. We sometimes walk a fine line in the designations--sort of like can a Jew accept Christ and still be a Jew? I say yes. Others here say no. It's all in how rigid one wishes to make the definition.

No it isn't.

For jews it's based on jewish law as given by G-D to the jews. It's not based on individual interpretation.

Your opinion is irrelevant.

According to jewish law you are either christian or jewish, you can't be both at the same time.

 

[Newby]

Obviously they are not.

According to jesus, he prayed to god, and talked to god. That means that they were two separate entities.

Your god is not my god.

Also something else I wanted to deal with.

The true jewish heroes were the ones that took toture and death rather than convert to Christianity.

One of the most famous was a person called Rabbi Akiva. He was burned at the stake and the christians made sure it was a slow death.

As he was dying he telled out the most important prayer in judaism "Hear O'Israel The Lord is our G-D, The Lord is One".

What does jesus say "G-D why have you forsaken me"?

That is another difference between a true jewish leader/hero, and someone whom is not.

Where is what I bolded documented?

I don't care to spend the time to find it.

Either believe me or don't. The actual person's name is irrelevant to my point.

My point as demonstrated by numerous jewish heroes is how they died compared to the wussy way that jesus died.

You're an ass.

 

[CMike]

Where is what I bolded documented?

I don't care to spend the time to find it.

Either believe me or don't. The actual person's name is irrelevant to my point.

My point as demonstrated by numerous jewish heroes is how they died compared to the wussy way that jesus died.

You're an ass.

What a douche bag

Very simple.

True jewish heroes when being tortured and executed -- "Hear O'Israel The Lord Is Our G-D The Lord Is One."

Jesus -- "Why have you forsaken me?"

Any questions?

 

[Ropey]

A very smart question as it removes much of the reasoning for argument. It might be useful to predicate the coming with the requirements of a Jew upon this time.

What are we expecting of our Lord? It's more like what are our Lords expectations of us?

Moses ben Maimon (Maimonides), also called Rambam (1135-1204), wrote in his Thirteen Articles of Faith, that belief in the Messiah was required for a Jew to be resurrected. The 12th and 13th articles both deal with Redemption, which will come in the days of Messiah.

The 13 Articles of the Jewish Faith proposed by Maimonides are these:

1. God exists.
2. God is one and unique.
3. God is incorporeal.
4. God is eternal.
5. Prayer is to God only.
6. The prophets spoke truth.
7. Moses was the greatest of the prophets.
8. The Written and Oral Torah were given to Moses.
9. There will be no other Torah.
10. God knows the thoughts and deeds of men.
11. God will reward the good and punish the wicked.
12. The Messiah will come.
13. The dead will be resurrected.

These articles of faith are "expected' to be instilled in the practicing and believing Jew.

Halakhic (Legal) Literature

Neither the Mishna nor the Talmud is a true code of law. Because both the rabbinical leadership and the laypersons desired such a code - for religious purposes and for the administration of their autonomous communities - post-Talmudic authorities developed a genre of "arbitership" that followed two paths: responsa and formal codification. Each seeks to refine the Talmudic eclectic into lucid rules for religious and civil conduct, coupled with inspirational and moral messages.

Maimonides further explains in his work on the Halakhic code, the Yad haHazaqa (“The Strong Hand&#8221, also known as the Mishne Torah (Second Torah) the view of redemption and the role Messiah will play. Maimonides summarizes the Jewish expectation of the Messiah.

But the expectation of Messiah, is not limited to Maimonides comments, quotes from the Talmud, Targum, Midrash, Zohar and other writings give us a vivid picture of the expectation in the Jewish world of the times of Messiah. Messianic expectation in Rabbinic times (A.D.135-1750) and in the time of Yeshua may have changed over the years. Expectations are fluid.

For example in the time of Yeshua, The Temple existed and Israel was not scattered abroad as is the case today. In the days of Maimonides, there was no Israel and no Temple, and Jews were persecuted in Europe.

If the times are to change, this is because it is supposed to change. The end of times and days is not the end of the world. It is an end of times. The end of mundane governing.

Now, if it is supposed to change, then it is in the order of change that the future follows. Both Christianity and Judaism follow this view and as such, modernization of their books can not be held back in perpetuity.

So, even the Jews are not in complete agreement. That's not surprising. Put five Jews in a room and ask them a question, you will get a hundred answers.

I believe that we shall see what we shall see. I follow the articles of faith. I truly believe them.

All the rest is interpretive. By the very nature of our creation, free will is bestowed upon us for that interpretation. The only true commands are in the commandments. All the rest is by choice. No human is perfect, thus our choices and road traveled are no more than inspired choice at best. Flawed inspiration, yields flawed choices.

So, now to the question. When the Messiah comes, what will the Messiah be? When will the Messiah come? I'll tell you.

Who knows? Not me.

I believe that we are not supposed to know, being granted free will and an intellect to make our choices. So, all we can do is interpret, discuss and follow with faith. Make our choices and reap our results of those choices.

But if the ability to make those choices is taken away from us, they become rather a moot point, don't they?

Both Judaism and Christianity employ opening, restructuring and codification of their book. Islam, by decree, and burning all other interpretations of Islam Clicky disallows any changes to the purity of HIS words, thus suffers a (to me) dangerous intractability to modernity.

Jews believe that G-d is one and indivisible. Christians believe that G-d is a triparte, a piece of pie that is cut in three but retaining the oneness as it is still one pie.It is the major singular belief of monotheism. Jews do not cut our lord into pieces.

Shema Yisrael -- "Hear O Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is One" -- is perhaps the most famous of all Jewish sayings. It is the most integral to who we are.

That's why Jews can not be Christians, and Christians can not be Jews. They can be Jewish by race, but not a Jew which is considered by race and belief AND practice. There is a big difference between a Jew and being Jewish. A Jew can become a Christian, but when they do, they lose their contact to the Jewish G-d as a practicing Jew.
.
.
.

What will the Messiah be when he comes then?

 

[Kalam]

Both Judaism and Christianity employ opening, restructuring and codification of their book. Islam, by decree, and burning all other interpretations of Islam Clicky disallows any changes to the purity of HIS words, thus suffers a (to me) dangerous intractability to modernity.

I wonder why it is that so many disbelievers are pathologically obsessed with Islam?

The linked article is inaccurate, by the way, but you probably knew that already.

 

[Ropey]

The only religion I know of which is consistent with pretty much every other is Buddism.

You may wish to research the Bahá'ís faith which is the youngest of the world's independent religions. Bahá'ís live in 235 countries and territories throughout the world.

They are some of the loveliest people of the inclusive spirit I have ever met.

 

[Ropey]

Both Judaism and Christianity employ opening, restructuring and codification of their book. Islam, by decree, and burning all other interpretations of Islam Clicky disallows any changes to the purity of HIS words, thus suffers a (to me) dangerous intractability to modernity.

I wonder why it is that so many disbelievers are pathologically obsessed with Islam?

The linked article is inaccurate, by the way, but you probably knew that already.

The only legitimate interpretation of Islam is that which is based entirely on the Qur'an and the Sunnah; innovation in religious matters is forbidden.

OK, if you say so.

 

[Kalam]

Both Judaism and Christianity employ opening, restructuring and codification of their book. Islam, by decree, and burning all other interpretations of Islam Clicky disallows any changes to the purity of HIS words, thus suffers a (to me) dangerous intractability to modernity.

I wonder why it is that so many disbelievers are pathologically obsessed with Islam?

The linked article is inaccurate, by the way, but you probably knew that already.

The only legitimate interpretation of Islam is that which is based entirely on the Qur'an and the Sunnah; innovation in religious matters is forbidden.

OK, if you say so.

You linked to an article with an inaccurate account of the Qur'an's early history -- that has nothing to do with bid'ah. "You aren't that dull."

 

[Ravi]

And exactly what is it about Judaism and Chritianity that you think is so mutually exclusive that one cannot observe the religious practices, and even beliefs, of both?

That is an interesting question. But it seems to me that Christianity is in itself based on the acceptance of Jesus as messiah. That would be anathema to the following of Judaism. The only religion I know of which is consistent with pretty much every other is Buddism.

Yep.

I wonder, can there be Christian Muslims? How about Christian Muslim Jews? Atheist Muslim Christian Jews?

 

[Ropey]

LOL

I wonder, can there be Christian Muslims? How about Christian Muslim Jews? Atheist Muslim Christian Jews?

 

[Newby]

I don't care to spend the time to find it.

Either believe me or don't. The actual person's name is irrelevant to my point.

My point as demonstrated by numerous jewish heroes is how they died compared to the wussy way that jesus died.

You're an ass.

What a douche bag

Very simple.

True jewish heroes when being tortured and executed -- "Hear O'Israel The Lord Is Our G-D The Lord Is One."

Jesus -- "Why have you forsaken me?"

Any questions?

No, no more questions, I know exactly what kind of a person you are. I've seen all I need to see, and said all I need to say. You don't do Jews any favors, luckily I know they're not all like you. Thank God.

 

[Foxfyre]

LOL

I wonder, can there be Christian Muslims? How about Christian Muslim Jews? Atheist Muslim Christian Jews?

Yep made me smile too.

But in fact, one CAN be an Atheist and still be an ethnic Jew. An Atheist cannot be an Atheist and also embrace any other religion involving a deity, however.

One CAN be an ethnic Jew and also be Christian AND also keep many of his/her former Jewish teachings and customs.

One CAN be an Arab Muslim who accepts Christ and also keeps many of his/her Islamic teachings and customs.

One CAN be a Tibetan Buddhist who accepts Christ and also keeps many of his Buddhist teachings and customs.

 

[Kalam]

One CAN be an Arab Muslim who accepts Christ

You'd have to be one or the other in this case.

 

[CMike]

You're an ass.

What a douche bag

Very simple.

True jewish heroes when being tortured and executed -- "Hear O'Israel The Lord Is
Any questions?

No, no more questions, I know exactly what kind of a person you are. I've seen all I need to see, and said all I need to say. You don't do Jews any favors, luckily I know they're not all like you. Thank God.

You are a douche bag.

Thank you for your attention on this matter.

 

[Foxfyre]

One CAN be an Arab Muslim who accepts Christ

You'd have to be one or the other in this case.

Well yes, you wouldn't continue to call yourself a Muslim once you accepted Christ. But there is much that is good, right, and honorable in the Islamic faith too, and you would not be required to chuck all that and start over. You could still be a good Christian and retain the positives of your Islamic faith and many of the customs you enjoy. And there is a lot of overlap between the various major religions too.

 

[CMike]

LOL

I wonder, can there be

But in fact, one CAN be an Atheist and still be an ethnic Jew. An Atheist cannot be an Atheist and also embrace any other religion involving a deity, however.

One CAN be an ethnic Jew and also be Christian AND also keep many of his/her former Jewish teachings and customs.

One CAN be an Arab Muslim who accepts Christ and also keeps many of his/her Islamic teachings and customs.

One CAN be a Tibetan Buddhist who accepts Christ and also keeps many of his Buddhist teachings and customs.

Why are you speaking for Judaism when you have no knowledge in this area?