Why is Building the Wall Wrong?

[Ray From Cleveland]

Even if it were environmentally friendly, which it isn't,
or it didn't take land from good Americans, which it does,
all you need to do is build a ladder one foot longer.

BEFORE the globalists flipped the right on the nutty wall idea, civilian militias were protecting private property AND opposing the over-reach of eminent domain. Today, those in favor of the wall are on the globalists side. My how times have changed!

Indeed they have. Fascism is a resilient meme, and it's found a home in the Republican party. I'd like to think the NeverTrump people will, at some point, reassert themselves pull the party back from the edge - but there are plenty of idiots ready to sign up. It's not looking good.

I voted for Trump. When he stood against the Second Amendment, he proved what he really is. He is not going to be re-elected.

---------------------------------- yeah , i don't like the Ban on the Bump stock and one or 2 other things that i have heard about but he is the best that we have with no one any better in sight so i support him for now and maybe later Porter .

I can respect your position. But, just as the wall is the litmus test of a person's loyalty to this country, the Bill of Rights is my litmus test. Once Trump signed onto the bump stock ban, he lost me for good.

When even the NRA is willing to compromise on your unalienable Rights, we are headed toward the end of our era as a Republic.

Most people didn't even know what they were (Including myself) until that LV attack.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

the thing with the WALL to me is simply to assert SOVEREIGNTY . The WALL will help prevent entry into the USA of third worlders who sometimes end up becoming citizens with voting rights that they will use to change the USA into where they came from . And of course it will Stop some drug flow into the USA . But to me the entire issue is simply asserting SOVEREIGNTY .

Everybody in favor of the wall has their own personal reasons. The battle cry is generally about border security. But, let's stop again and address this concern.

The real issue with me is that those who want a border wall believe that rights are granted by a God / government. Therefore, the only avenue they see whereby foreigners come here is through some process they call "legal." This terminology, generally speaking, is code for citizenship. The reality is, our immigration laws were written to encourage non-white immigration. The reality is, most non-white nations are third world. The reality is, once those people become citizens, they outvote you at some point and all this drivel about sovereignty goes out the door.

I am AGAINST wholesale citizenship. Hope you understand that.

When you nullify the Bill of Rights, especially starting with the Fourth Amendment; when you tell the employer the government is going to dictate who he can and cannot hire; when you attack the free enterprise system; when you demand to build a government so big that it cannot be resisted when it enforces tyrannical laws, you lose me on this "sovereignty" issue. You can have sovereignty and not have a militarized border.

----------------------------------------------- to me the only issue is ASSERTING Sovereignty . Feck the 'chamber of commerce' Porter .

Building a wall does not assert sovereignty. It is the moral equivalent of the declaration of war - a war that the people of the United States initiated. Given the decisions by the United States Supreme Court and the trend America has taken toward the left, you're like a little boy that is using a small stick to taunt a lion.

"If a man could have half his wishes, he'd just double his trouble" Johnny Cash in the song The Farmer's Almanac

So people are invading this country, and because we want to take steps to stop them invading our country, that's a declaration of war?????

 

[pismoe]

Even if it were environmentally friendly, which it isn't,
or it didn't take land from good Americans, which it does,
all you need to do is build a ladder one foot longer.

BEFORE the globalists flipped the right on the nutty wall idea, civilian militias were protecting private property AND opposing the over-reach of eminent domain. Today, those in favor of the wall are on the globalists side. My how times have changed!

Indeed they have. Fascism is a resilient meme, and it's found a home in the Republican party. I'd like to think the NeverTrump people will, at some point, reassert themselves pull the party back from the edge - but there are plenty of idiots ready to sign up. It's not looking good.

I voted for Trump. When he stood against the Second Amendment, he proved what he really is. He is not going to be re-elected.

---------------------------------- yeah , i don't like the Ban on the Bump stock and one or 2 other things that i have heard about but he is the best that we have with no one any better in sight so i support him for now and maybe later Porter .

I can respect your position. But, just as the wall is the litmus test of a person's loyalty to this country, the Bill of Rights is my litmus test. Once Trump signed onto the bump stock ban, he lost me for good.

When even the NRA is willing to compromise on your unalienable Rights, we are headed toward the end of our era as a Republic.

---------------------------------------------- thats why i quite often say that i am happy to be OLD . I got the second best up to about the 90s or thereabouts after my parents got the best of America . Send the ' GOA' a hundred bucks like i am doing to fight the 'Bump Stock ban' Porter .

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Our nation will NOT be more secure because you build a wall. Quite the converse will be true. A wall would create more tension between our neighbors to the south.

So?????

I realize that you have your perspective, but the answer to any problem lies in considering all the differing perspectives. Unless you are willing to argue that our neighbors to the south are genetically predisposed to gangs, poverty, and violence I would hope that you hear me out on this:

Drug cartels, gangs and the violence that ensues exist because the people in the United States are the world's primary consumers of drugs. If we quit supplying the drug users, there then is no need for drug cartels.

Furthermore, if people come to the United States and engage in lawful pursuits AND we pass laws to make sure that things like education and welfare are the benefits and privileges of CITIZENSHIP, there is no incentive for them to stay here. They can make some money and go home, invest their savings and ultimately become independent enough so that they don't feel a need to be in the United States.

Stopping drug dependency is like trying to stop drunk drivers, people gambling, littering, and suicides. In other words, it's an impossibility unless we do what Singapore does and execute drug users and sellers. So we can't use that as an excuse for people from other countries coming here and killing Americans. That's like blaming the woman who got raped.

Drugs have been around my entire life. Opioid use was very rare however. You could find pot when I was young, but now that I'm pushing 60, I can honestly say I've never seen heroin in my life. It simply wasn't around back then mostly because of cost.

But today, opioids are around for younger people nearly as much as pot was in my teen days. That wouldn't be the case if the supply wasn't there. If it's ready available, more people are likely to experiment with it and end up hooked.

So we need to make efforts to reduce the supply of recreational narcotics. You can't do that with an open border just about anybody can cross. It's not the only step necessary, but a very large step in this fight.

An open border does not create drug addicts.

Let me walk you through this once:

Parents and schools have turned the rearing of children up to the government. You cannot spank your children, reprimand them nor restrain them in any way.

The government's solution is to start at a very young age, giving children Ritalin or Adderall for nonexistent problems. Children are "anxious and / or hyperactive because they eat too much, sugar, live in a home where there is a lot of drama and instability; they don't get the right diet, enough or too much sleep and no exercise.

But, we don't fix it. We make drug addicts out of children and they eventually end up on opioids and / or SSRIs. Many will then venture into illegal drugs. Millions quit school and go through life with no job skills, no education, no work history, no high school diploma, and a criminal record. By the time they hit their mid 20s, they are taken off their parents insurance and they resort to selling drugs to the next generation in order to live and feed their drug habit.

Rather than us do anything about it, we blame foreigners.

People are not addicts because they were children. Most addicts are created from prescription medication. But when the medical personnel cuts you off, that's it, you stop. However it's simply too easy to continue beyond your doctors recommendations by purchasing illegal drugs instead.

If the drugs are not there, you stand a much better chance at not becoming an addict.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

If you don't call this a war, then I don't know what you'd call it.

If you DO call this a war, what would you call it if we are attacked by a real military? Because it's clearly not the same thing.

No, it's not the same thing. It's a war, but not an armed conflict.

 

[pismoe]

4th Amendment --- --- Fourth Amendment ---

Do you have a point?

------------------------------------- you mentioned the 4TH Amendment in your post --- 953 --- , i just put it up to read it and for others that may not know what it is Porter .

 

[pismoe]

the thing with the WALL to me is simply to assert SOVEREIGNTY . The WALL will help prevent entry into the USA of third worlders who sometimes end up becoming citizens with voting rights that they will use to change the USA into where they came from . And of course it will Stop some drug flow into the USA . But to me the entire issue is simply asserting SOVEREIGNTY .

Everybody in favor of the wall has their own personal reasons. The battle cry is generally about border security. But, let's stop again and address this concern.

The real issue with me is that those who want a border wall believe that rights are granted by a God / government. Therefore, the only avenue they see whereby foreigners come here is through some process they call "legal." This terminology, generally speaking, is code for citizenship. The reality is, our immigration laws were written to encourage non-white immigration. The reality is, most non-white nations are third world. The reality is, once those people become citizens, they outvote you at some point and all this drivel about sovereignty goes out the door.

I am AGAINST wholesale citizenship. Hope you understand that.

When you nullify the Bill of Rights, especially starting with the Fourth Amendment; when you tell the employer the government is going to dictate who he can and cannot hire; when you attack the free enterprise system; when you demand to build a government so big that it cannot be resisted when it enforces tyrannical laws, you lose me on this "sovereignty" issue. You can have sovereignty and not have a militarized border.

----------------------------------------------- to me the only issue is ASSERTING Sovereignty . Feck the 'chamber of commerce' Porter .

Building a wall does not assert sovereignty. It is the moral equivalent of the declaration of war - a war that the people of the United States initiated. Given the decisions by the United States Supreme Court and the trend America has taken toward the left, you're like a little boy that is using a small stick to taunt a lion.

"If a man could have half his wishes, he'd just double his trouble" Johnny Cash in the song The Farmer's Almanac

------------------------ taunt the Lion , who is the LION Porter ??

 

[pismoe]

--- Gunowners of America --- GOA Press Release on Bump Stock Ban . ----------------------- GOA on Bump Stocks | GOA News --- Send them a hundred bucks Porter and other Gun Owners .

 

[Porter Rockwell]

the thing with the WALL to me is simply to assert SOVEREIGNTY . The WALL will help prevent entry into the USA of third worlders who sometimes end up becoming citizens with voting rights that they will use to change the USA into where they came from . And of course it will Stop some drug flow into the USA . But to me the entire issue is simply asserting SOVEREIGNTY .

Everybody in favor of the wall has their own personal reasons. The battle cry is generally about border security. But, let's stop again and address this concern.

The real issue with me is that those who want a border wall believe that rights are granted by a God / government. Therefore, the only avenue they see whereby foreigners come here is through some process they call "legal." This terminology, generally speaking, is code for citizenship. The reality is, our immigration laws were written to encourage non-white immigration. The reality is, most non-white nations are third world. The reality is, once those people become citizens, they outvote you at some point and all this drivel about sovereignty goes out the door.

I am AGAINST wholesale citizenship. Hope you understand that.

When you nullify the Bill of Rights, especially starting with the Fourth Amendment; when you tell the employer the government is going to dictate who he can and cannot hire; when you attack the free enterprise system; when you demand to build a government so big that it cannot be resisted when it enforces tyrannical laws, you lose me on this "sovereignty" issue. You can have sovereignty and not have a militarized border.

----------------------------------------------- to me the only issue is ASSERTING Sovereignty . Feck the 'chamber of commerce' Porter .

Building a wall does not assert sovereignty. It is the moral equivalent of the declaration of war - a war that the people of the United States initiated. Given the decisions by the United States Supreme Court and the trend America has taken toward the left, you're like a little boy that is using a small stick to taunt a lion.

"If a man could have half his wishes, he'd just double his trouble" Johnny Cash in the song The Farmer's Almanac

So people are invading this country, and because we want to take steps to stop them invading our country, that's a declaration of war?????

What??? People are invading this country??? If somebody's out there invading this country and the military is shooting, why in the Hell aren't you out there with that gun you have in your avatar shooting the sh!+ out of the invaders? You know why?

America is NOT being invaded. NOBODY, except the government and the doctors (at the parents behest), is making drug addicts out of the children. Those who come here to work are taking jobs willingly offered by the employers that created the jobs. It's simple business transactions. You, me, and everybody on this board buys from the cheapest companies that meet our personal quality standards. If they use cheap foreign labor we don't ask. All that political hooey sounds good and pushes emotional buttons some of the time, but certainly not mine.

Wake up and demand that your fellow American own their part in the problem.

 

[Porter Rockwell]

BEFORE the globalists flipped the right on the nutty wall idea, civilian militias were protecting private property AND opposing the over-reach of eminent domain. Today, those in favor of the wall are on the globalists side. My how times have changed!

Indeed they have. Fascism is a resilient meme, and it's found a home in the Republican party. I'd like to think the NeverTrump people will, at some point, reassert themselves pull the party back from the edge - but there are plenty of idiots ready to sign up. It's not looking good.

I voted for Trump. When he stood against the Second Amendment, he proved what he really is. He is not going to be re-elected.

---------------------------------- yeah , i don't like the Ban on the Bump stock and one or 2 other things that i have heard about but he is the best that we have with no one any better in sight so i support him for now and maybe later Porter .

I can respect your position. But, just as the wall is the litmus test of a person's loyalty to this country, the Bill of Rights is my litmus test. Once Trump signed onto the bump stock ban, he lost me for good.

When even the NRA is willing to compromise on your unalienable Rights, we are headed toward the end of our era as a Republic.

---------------------------------------------- thats why i quite often say that i am happy to be OLD . I got the second best up to about the 90s or thereabouts after my parents got the best of America . Send the ' GOA' a hundred bucks like i am doing to fight the 'Bump Stock ban' Porter .

The GOA thanks you and I thank you. You called me on putting my money where my mouth is. I could tell you that I don't own a bump stock and have never used one, but that's not the point. You stood up and proved your commitment. I have not donated to GOA, but I will do as you have told me I should. You are a true patriot and it is an honor to discuss politics with you.

 

[Flopper]

Plenty of people care that Drumpf conned his idiot supporters. Theres no need to punish Mexico if they are going to willingly cut a check like Drumpf claimed they would. Now if he has this in the form of a promissory note then we can punish Mexico.

Mexico's economy is less than 1/10 the size of the US economy. The entire budget for Mexico would be little more than a rounding error in the US budget. The chance of Mexico paying for a 35 billion dollar wall that they wouldn't even own is about zero. Trump says what he thinks his supporters want to hear. Any relationship to the truth is purely coincidental.

Thats pretty much what I thought when I heard that idiot gibbon say Mexico was going to pay for the wall. You can imagine my surprise when Drumpfs supporters actually believed him. Thats when I knew stupid is not just an airborne disease. It affects digital networks as well.

To be honest, we don't care who pays for it. After all, what Trump originally asked for was half of what we spend on food stamps every single year. We were not obsessed with who was going to pay for it, only the leftists are now. We were sold that there would be a wall.

Hey, you guys bought the BS that nobody making less than 250K a year would see a tax increase of any kind. And what was the first thing Ears did once he invaded the White House? He instituted a huge sin tax; a tax that mostly affects the poor and middle-class. Afterwards, he got a bill passed that kept income tax refunds of people that didn't have health insurance, again, a tax that only affected the poor and middle-class.

But now you complain that Mexico is not giving us the 5 billion dollars we want, and Congress has to fund it instead? People in glass houses................

Regardless of the revenue source, congress must fund it. The president can't just look under a rock and say, Look, I found 35 billion dollars. I'm going to building a wall."
Revenue for any project is always an issue but the overriding issue is do we want it, not what it cost. 70% of the American public say the wall is not a priority and over half say it should not build. There is opposition in congress among republicans not just democrats.

We should not built the wall, not because of the cost but because it's not practical. Even the most optimistic estimates put the time to complete the wall as 15 years, but 20 would be more realistic since a republican congress has never put any money in budget for it. If you think that's nuts, remember it took 6 years to complete 500 miles of a fence and the fencing project was far simpler than the Trump wall and had much less opposition. Long before the wall is finished, immigration, national priorities, and ideology of the parties will have shifted along with funding of the wall.

When we enter into a project of this size we should be looking at the future, not the past. The number of illegal immigrants in the US have been falling since 2008. With economic improvements in Mexico, particular the growing shortage of farm labor, it is quite likely that the illegal immigration problem will solve itself.

Years ago I was listening to the radio when the host was interviewing Marlo Thomas. Marlo was a 70's actress who starred in a show and the daughter of a very famous actor by the name of Danny Thomas. She was promoting her book on advancing in life. In her book she interviewed a Doctor and her path to becoming a clinician.

The Doctor said she attended college and became a teacher. After some years of teaching, she became a little depressed about the career she chose. Her father realized something was wrong, and she told him of her thoughts. So he asked what is it she'd really like to do? She said she'd really like to be a medical doctor. So he suggested that she do just that! She told her father she was stuck in this career, and by the time she'd get out of college, she would be 42 years old. He looked at her and said "Well you're going to be 42 anyway!" On her fathers advice, she became a doctor and has never been happier.

This migrant problem isn't going away anytime soon no matter what you speculate. There will always be desperate people south of us, gang members who want to get in, terrorists looking for an easy way to sneak in, and people that want to take our money and send it back home. 10 or 15 years? It's going to be 10 or 15 years no matter what we do, so there is no time like the present to get started. Because every year that wall is being built, our border becomes more secure.

I agree the migrant problem will not go away, nor should it. The world's getting smaller everyday with better transportation, better communication, and globalization which are going to increase the mobility of populations. What will decrease is the number of illegal immigrants in the US. Improved conditions in Mexico and Central America, better border security, enforcement of visa expiration, more work permits, and revamping the asylum laws will cut illegal immigration to a trickle with or without the Trump wall.

 

[Porter Rockwell]

Our nation will NOT be more secure because you build a wall. Quite the converse will be true. A wall would create more tension between our neighbors to the south.

So?????

I realize that you have your perspective, but the answer to any problem lies in considering all the differing perspectives. Unless you are willing to argue that our neighbors to the south are genetically predisposed to gangs, poverty, and violence I would hope that you hear me out on this:

Drug cartels, gangs and the violence that ensues exist because the people in the United States are the world's primary consumers of drugs. If we quit supplying the drug users, there then is no need for drug cartels.

Furthermore, if people come to the United States and engage in lawful pursuits AND we pass laws to make sure that things like education and welfare are the benefits and privileges of CITIZENSHIP, there is no incentive for them to stay here. They can make some money and go home, invest their savings and ultimately become independent enough so that they don't feel a need to be in the United States.

Stopping drug dependency is like trying to stop drunk drivers, people gambling, littering, and suicides. In other words, it's an impossibility unless we do what Singapore does and execute drug users and sellers. So we can't use that as an excuse for people from other countries coming here and killing Americans. That's like blaming the woman who got raped.

Drugs have been around my entire life. Opioid use was very rare however. You could find pot when I was young, but now that I'm pushing 60, I can honestly say I've never seen heroin in my life. It simply wasn't around back then mostly because of cost.

But today, opioids are around for younger people nearly as much as pot was in my teen days. That wouldn't be the case if the supply wasn't there. If it's ready available, more people are likely to experiment with it and end up hooked.

So we need to make efforts to reduce the supply of recreational narcotics. You can't do that with an open border just about anybody can cross. It's not the only step necessary, but a very large step in this fight.

An open border does not create drug addicts.

Let me walk you through this once:

Parents and schools have turned the rearing of children up to the government. You cannot spank your children, reprimand them nor restrain them in any way.

The government's solution is to start at a very young age, giving children Ritalin or Adderall for nonexistent problems. Children are "anxious and / or hyperactive because they eat too much, sugar, live in a home where there is a lot of drama and instability; they don't get the right diet, enough or too much sleep and no exercise.

But, we don't fix it. We make drug addicts out of children and they eventually end up on opioids and / or SSRIs. Many will then venture into illegal drugs. Millions quit school and go through life with no job skills, no education, no work history, no high school diploma, and a criminal record. By the time they hit their mid 20s, they are taken off their parents insurance and they resort to selling drugs to the next generation in order to live and feed their drug habit.

Rather than us do anything about it, we blame foreigners.

People are not addicts because they were children. Most addicts are created from prescription medication. But when the medical personnel cuts you off, that's it, you stop. However it's simply too easy to continue beyond your doctors recommendations by purchasing illegal drugs instead.

If the drugs are not there, you stand a much better chance at not becoming an addict.

An astounding 19 percent of high school-age boys – ages 14 to 17 – in the U.S. have been diagnosed with ADHD and about 10 percent are taking medication for it. Ten percent of high school-age girls have likewise been diagnosed. ...The CDC survey completed last year found an estimated 6.4 million children ages 4 to 17 had been diagnosed at some point, a 53 percent increase over the past decade. Approximately two-thirds of those currently diagnosed have been prescribed drugs such as Ritalin or Adderall. Those drugs can help patients with both mild and severe symptoms, but they can also cause addiction, anxiety and psychosis."

Read more at Radical increase in kids prescribed Ritalin - WND - WND

Bear in mind, ADD / ADHD are phony conditions, the symptoms of which can be treated WITHOUT drugs.

See this link as well:

A New Documentary About Adults On Adderall — And Not Just For ADHD

" On average, children who have symptoms of ADHD will receive a diagnosis at 7 years of age. ...When individuals with ADHD are compared to those without this disorder, the ADHD group is more likely to start abusing alcohol and other drugs at an earlier age."

ADHD and Addiction

"An estimated 5 percent of adults in the US have ADHD, which represents 11 million individuals."

ADHD and Addiction

11 million people taking drugs for a non-existent condition. The government says there are about 11 million undocumented foreigners in the U.S. You don't want to study and consider the drug culture being developed by the government and doctors?

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Mexico's economy is less than 1/10 the size of the US economy. The entire budget for Mexico would be little more than a rounding error in the US budget. The chance of Mexico paying for a 35 billion dollar wall that they wouldn't even own is about zero. Trump says what he thinks his supporters want to hear. Any relationship to the truth is purely coincidental.

Thats pretty much what I thought when I heard that idiot gibbon say Mexico was going to pay for the wall. You can imagine my surprise when Drumpfs supporters actually believed him. Thats when I knew stupid is not just an airborne disease. It affects digital networks as well.

To be honest, we don't care who pays for it. After all, what Trump originally asked for was half of what we spend on food stamps every single year. We were not obsessed with who was going to pay for it, only the leftists are now. We were sold that there would be a wall.

Hey, you guys bought the BS that nobody making less than 250K a year would see a tax increase of any kind. And what was the first thing Ears did once he invaded the White House? He instituted a huge sin tax; a tax that mostly affects the poor and middle-class. Afterwards, he got a bill passed that kept income tax refunds of people that didn't have health insurance, again, a tax that only affected the poor and middle-class.

But now you complain that Mexico is not giving us the 5 billion dollars we want, and Congress has to fund it instead? People in glass houses................

Regardless of the revenue source, congress must fund it. The president can't just look under a rock and say, Look, I found 35 billion dollars. I'm going to building a wall."
Revenue for any project is always an issue but the overriding issue is do we want it, not what it cost. 70% of the American public say the wall is not a priority and over half say it should not build. There is opposition in congress among republicans not just democrats.

We should not built the wall, not because of the cost but because it's not practical. Even the most optimistic estimates put the time to complete the wall as 15 years, but 20 would be more realistic since a republican congress has never put any money in budget for it. If you think that's nuts, remember it took 6 years to complete 500 miles of a fence and the fencing project was far simpler than the Trump wall and had much less opposition. Long before the wall is finished, immigration, national priorities, and ideology of the parties will have shifted along with funding of the wall.

When we enter into a project of this size we should be looking at the future, not the past. The number of illegal immigrants in the US have been falling since 2008. With economic improvements in Mexico, particular the growing shortage of farm labor, it is quite likely that the illegal immigration problem will solve itself.

Years ago I was listening to the radio when the host was interviewing Marlo Thomas. Marlo was a 70's actress who starred in a show and the daughter of a very famous actor by the name of Danny Thomas. She was promoting her book on advancing in life. In her book she interviewed a Doctor and her path to becoming a clinician.

The Doctor said she attended college and became a teacher. After some years of teaching, she became a little depressed about the career she chose. Her father realized something was wrong, and she told him of her thoughts. So he asked what is it she'd really like to do? She said she'd really like to be a medical doctor. So he suggested that she do just that! She told her father she was stuck in this career, and by the time she'd get out of college, she would be 42 years old. He looked at her and said "Well you're going to be 42 anyway!" On her fathers advice, she became a doctor and has never been happier.

This migrant problem isn't going away anytime soon no matter what you speculate. There will always be desperate people south of us, gang members who want to get in, terrorists looking for an easy way to sneak in, and people that want to take our money and send it back home. 10 or 15 years? It's going to be 10 or 15 years no matter what we do, so there is no time like the present to get started. Because every year that wall is being built, our border becomes more secure.

I agree the migrant problem will not go away, nor should it. The world's getting smaller everyday with better transportation, better communication, and globalization which are going to increase the mobility of populations. What will decrease is the number of illegal immigrants in the US. Improved conditions in Mexico and Central America, better border security, enforcement of visa expiration, more work permits, and revamping the asylum laws will cut illegal immigration to a trickle with or without the Trump wall.

You can do all those things and more, but it's not going to stop everybody and you can't expect South and Central America to jump to the 21st century all at once.

I for one am all for the US sending troops to Mexico to wipe out the drug lords and organizations. That would give the people more control over their government and country. It would greatly reduce the drug flow into our country, so it's a two for one deal.

 

[Porter Rockwell]

4th Amendment --- --- Fourth Amendment ---

Do you have a point?

------------------------------------- you mentioned the 4TH Amendment in your post --- 953 --- , i just put it up to read it and for others that may not know what it is Porter .

I didn't know if you understood what they're giving up in order to have a silly wall that has zero chance of stopping undocumented foreigners.

 

[Porter Rockwell]

the thing with the WALL to me is simply to assert SOVEREIGNTY . The WALL will help prevent entry into the USA of third worlders who sometimes end up becoming citizens with voting rights that they will use to change the USA into where they came from . And of course it will Stop some drug flow into the USA . But to me the entire issue is simply asserting SOVEREIGNTY .

Everybody in favor of the wall has their own personal reasons. The battle cry is generally about border security. But, let's stop again and address this concern.

The real issue with me is that those who want a border wall believe that rights are granted by a God / government. Therefore, the only avenue they see whereby foreigners come here is through some process they call "legal." This terminology, generally speaking, is code for citizenship. The reality is, our immigration laws were written to encourage non-white immigration. The reality is, most non-white nations are third world. The reality is, once those people become citizens, they outvote you at some point and all this drivel about sovereignty goes out the door.

I am AGAINST wholesale citizenship. Hope you understand that.

When you nullify the Bill of Rights, especially starting with the Fourth Amendment; when you tell the employer the government is going to dictate who he can and cannot hire; when you attack the free enterprise system; when you demand to build a government so big that it cannot be resisted when it enforces tyrannical laws, you lose me on this "sovereignty" issue. You can have sovereignty and not have a militarized border.

----------------------------------------------- to me the only issue is ASSERTING Sovereignty . Feck the 'chamber of commerce' Porter .

Building a wall does not assert sovereignty. It is the moral equivalent of the declaration of war - a war that the people of the United States initiated. Given the decisions by the United States Supreme Court and the trend America has taken toward the left, you're like a little boy that is using a small stick to taunt a lion.

"If a man could have half his wishes, he'd just double his trouble" Johnny Cash in the song The Farmer's Almanac

------------------------ taunt the Lion , who is the LION Porter ??

The masses of liberals who turn out and are voting the right into oblivion.

 

[Porter Rockwell]

Thats pretty much what I thought when I heard that idiot gibbon say Mexico was going to pay for the wall. You can imagine my surprise when Drumpfs supporters actually believed him. Thats when I knew stupid is not just an airborne disease. It affects digital networks as well.

To be honest, we don't care who pays for it. After all, what Trump originally asked for was half of what we spend on food stamps every single year. We were not obsessed with who was going to pay for it, only the leftists are now. We were sold that there would be a wall.

Hey, you guys bought the BS that nobody making less than 250K a year would see a tax increase of any kind. And what was the first thing Ears did once he invaded the White House? He instituted a huge sin tax; a tax that mostly affects the poor and middle-class. Afterwards, he got a bill passed that kept income tax refunds of people that didn't have health insurance, again, a tax that only affected the poor and middle-class.

But now you complain that Mexico is not giving us the 5 billion dollars we want, and Congress has to fund it instead? People in glass houses................

Regardless of the revenue source, congress must fund it. The president can't just look under a rock and say, Look, I found 35 billion dollars. I'm going to building a wall."
Revenue for any project is always an issue but the overriding issue is do we want it, not what it cost. 70% of the American public say the wall is not a priority and over half say it should not build. There is opposition in congress among republicans not just democrats.

We should not built the wall, not because of the cost but because it's not practical. Even the most optimistic estimates put the time to complete the wall as 15 years, but 20 would be more realistic since a republican congress has never put any money in budget for it. If you think that's nuts, remember it took 6 years to complete 500 miles of a fence and the fencing project was far simpler than the Trump wall and had much less opposition. Long before the wall is finished, immigration, national priorities, and ideology of the parties will have shifted along with funding of the wall.

When we enter into a project of this size we should be looking at the future, not the past. The number of illegal immigrants in the US have been falling since 2008. With economic improvements in Mexico, particular the growing shortage of farm labor, it is quite likely that the illegal immigration problem will solve itself.

Years ago I was listening to the radio when the host was interviewing Marlo Thomas. Marlo was a 70's actress who starred in a show and the daughter of a very famous actor by the name of Danny Thomas. She was promoting her book on advancing in life. In her book she interviewed a Doctor and her path to becoming a clinician.

The Doctor said she attended college and became a teacher. After some years of teaching, she became a little depressed about the career she chose. Her father realized something was wrong, and she told him of her thoughts. So he asked what is it she'd really like to do? She said she'd really like to be a medical doctor. So he suggested that she do just that! She told her father she was stuck in this career, and by the time she'd get out of college, she would be 42 years old. He looked at her and said "Well you're going to be 42 anyway!" On her fathers advice, she became a doctor and has never been happier.

This migrant problem isn't going away anytime soon no matter what you speculate. There will always be desperate people south of us, gang members who want to get in, terrorists looking for an easy way to sneak in, and people that want to take our money and send it back home. 10 or 15 years? It's going to be 10 or 15 years no matter what we do, so there is no time like the present to get started. Because every year that wall is being built, our border becomes more secure.

I agree the migrant problem will not go away, nor should it. The world's getting smaller everyday with better transportation, better communication, and globalization which are going to increase the mobility of populations. What will decrease is the number of illegal immigrants in the US. Improved conditions in Mexico and Central America, better border security, enforcement of visa expiration, more work permits, and revamping the asylum laws will cut illegal immigration to a trickle with or without the Trump wall.

You can do all those things and more, but it's not going to stop everybody and you can't expect South and Central America to jump to the 21st century all at once.

I for one am all for the US sending troops to Mexico to wipe out the drug lords and organizations. That would give the people more control over their government and country. It would greatly reduce the drug flow into our country, so it's a two for one deal.

If we nuke GM maybe people won't have cars any more. Nice try, but no cigar. The drug cartels exist because Americans have an insatiable appetite for drugs.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Our nation will NOT be more secure because you build a wall. Quite the converse will be true. A wall would create more tension between our neighbors to the south.

So?????

I realize that you have your perspective, but the answer to any problem lies in considering all the differing perspectives. Unless you are willing to argue that our neighbors to the south are genetically predisposed to gangs, poverty, and violence I would hope that you hear me out on this:

Drug cartels, gangs and the violence that ensues exist because the people in the United States are the world's primary consumers of drugs. If we quit supplying the drug users, there then is no need for drug cartels.

Furthermore, if people come to the United States and engage in lawful pursuits AND we pass laws to make sure that things like education and welfare are the benefits and privileges of CITIZENSHIP, there is no incentive for them to stay here. They can make some money and go home, invest their savings and ultimately become independent enough so that they don't feel a need to be in the United States.

Stopping drug dependency is like trying to stop drunk drivers, people gambling, littering, and suicides. In other words, it's an impossibility unless we do what Singapore does and execute drug users and sellers. So we can't use that as an excuse for people from other countries coming here and killing Americans. That's like blaming the woman who got raped.

Drugs have been around my entire life. Opioid use was very rare however. You could find pot when I was young, but now that I'm pushing 60, I can honestly say I've never seen heroin in my life. It simply wasn't around back then mostly because of cost.

But today, opioids are around for younger people nearly as much as pot was in my teen days. That wouldn't be the case if the supply wasn't there. If it's ready available, more people are likely to experiment with it and end up hooked.

So we need to make efforts to reduce the supply of recreational narcotics. You can't do that with an open border just about anybody can cross. It's not the only step necessary, but a very large step in this fight.

An open border does not create drug addicts.

Let me walk you through this once:

Parents and schools have turned the rearing of children up to the government. You cannot spank your children, reprimand them nor restrain them in any way.

The government's solution is to start at a very young age, giving children Ritalin or Adderall for nonexistent problems. Children are "anxious and / or hyperactive because they eat too much, sugar, live in a home where there is a lot of drama and instability; they don't get the right diet, enough or too much sleep and no exercise.

But, we don't fix it. We make drug addicts out of children and they eventually end up on opioids and / or SSRIs. Many will then venture into illegal drugs. Millions quit school and go through life with no job skills, no education, no work history, no high school diploma, and a criminal record. By the time they hit their mid 20s, they are taken off their parents insurance and they resort to selling drugs to the next generation in order to live and feed their drug habit.

Rather than us do anything about it, we blame foreigners.

People are not addicts because they were children. Most addicts are created from prescription medication. But when the medical personnel cuts you off, that's it, you stop. However it's simply too easy to continue beyond your doctors recommendations by purchasing illegal drugs instead.

If the drugs are not there, you stand a much better chance at not becoming an addict.

An astounding 19 percent of high school-age boys – ages 14 to 17 – in the U.S. have been diagnosed with ADHD and about 10 percent are taking medication for it. Ten percent of high school-age girls have likewise been diagnosed. ...The CDC survey completed last year found an estimated 6.4 million children ages 4 to 17 had been diagnosed at some point, a 53 percent increase over the past decade. Approximately two-thirds of those currently diagnosed have been prescribed drugs such as Ritalin or Adderall. Those drugs can help patients with both mild and severe symptoms, but they can also cause addiction, anxiety and psychosis."

Read more at Radical increase in kids prescribed Ritalin - WND - WND

Bear in mind, ADD / ADHD are phony conditions, the symptoms of which can be treated WITHOUT drugs.

See this link as well:

A New Documentary About Adults On Adderall — And Not Just For ADHD

" On average, children who have symptoms of ADHD will receive a diagnosis at 7 years of age. ...When individuals with ADHD are compared to those without this disorder, the ADHD group is more likely to start abusing alcohol and other drugs at an earlier age."

ADHD and Addiction

"An estimated 5 percent of adults in the US have ADHD, which represents 11 million individuals."

ADHD and Addiction

11 million people taking drugs for a non-existent condition. The government says there are about 11 million undocumented foreigners in the U.S. You don't want to study and consider the drug culture being developed by the government and doctors?

I say they are full of shit because I do have ADD; had it since a child. So it's not fake, it's very real. While I have never taken any medication for it (it wasn't available during my time) I have learned to cope with it. But if there is something that could help people, it's fine with me as long as it doesn't have any side effects.

But regardless, it still has nothing to do with the opioid addiction we have today. Hell, Coke a Cola got it's name from guess where? They used to put codeine in caught syrup years ago. Never a problem.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

To be honest, we don't care who pays for it. After all, what Trump originally asked for was half of what we spend on food stamps every single year. We were not obsessed with who was going to pay for it, only the leftists are now. We were sold that there would be a wall.

Hey, you guys bought the BS that nobody making less than 250K a year would see a tax increase of any kind. And what was the first thing Ears did once he invaded the White House? He instituted a huge sin tax; a tax that mostly affects the poor and middle-class. Afterwards, he got a bill passed that kept income tax refunds of people that didn't have health insurance, again, a tax that only affected the poor and middle-class.

But now you complain that Mexico is not giving us the 5 billion dollars we want, and Congress has to fund it instead? People in glass houses................

Regardless of the revenue source, congress must fund it. The president can't just look under a rock and say, Look, I found 35 billion dollars. I'm going to building a wall."
Revenue for any project is always an issue but the overriding issue is do we want it, not what it cost. 70% of the American public say the wall is not a priority and over half say it should not build. There is opposition in congress among republicans not just democrats.

We should not built the wall, not because of the cost but because it's not practical. Even the most optimistic estimates put the time to complete the wall as 15 years, but 20 would be more realistic since a republican congress has never put any money in budget for it. If you think that's nuts, remember it took 6 years to complete 500 miles of a fence and the fencing project was far simpler than the Trump wall and had much less opposition. Long before the wall is finished, immigration, national priorities, and ideology of the parties will have shifted along with funding of the wall.

When we enter into a project of this size we should be looking at the future, not the past. The number of illegal immigrants in the US have been falling since 2008. With economic improvements in Mexico, particular the growing shortage of farm labor, it is quite likely that the illegal immigration problem will solve itself.

Years ago I was listening to the radio when the host was interviewing Marlo Thomas. Marlo was a 70's actress who starred in a show and the daughter of a very famous actor by the name of Danny Thomas. She was promoting her book on advancing in life. In her book she interviewed a Doctor and her path to becoming a clinician.

The Doctor said she attended college and became a teacher. After some years of teaching, she became a little depressed about the career she chose. Her father realized something was wrong, and she told him of her thoughts. So he asked what is it she'd really like to do? She said she'd really like to be a medical doctor. So he suggested that she do just that! She told her father she was stuck in this career, and by the time she'd get out of college, she would be 42 years old. He looked at her and said "Well you're going to be 42 anyway!" On her fathers advice, she became a doctor and has never been happier.

This migrant problem isn't going away anytime soon no matter what you speculate. There will always be desperate people south of us, gang members who want to get in, terrorists looking for an easy way to sneak in, and people that want to take our money and send it back home. 10 or 15 years? It's going to be 10 or 15 years no matter what we do, so there is no time like the present to get started. Because every year that wall is being built, our border becomes more secure.

I agree the migrant problem will not go away, nor should it. The world's getting smaller everyday with better transportation, better communication, and globalization which are going to increase the mobility of populations. What will decrease is the number of illegal immigrants in the US. Improved conditions in Mexico and Central America, better border security, enforcement of visa expiration, more work permits, and revamping the asylum laws will cut illegal immigration to a trickle with or without the Trump wall.

You can do all those things and more, but it's not going to stop everybody and you can't expect South and Central America to jump to the 21st century all at once.

I for one am all for the US sending troops to Mexico to wipe out the drug lords and organizations. That would give the people more control over their government and country. It would greatly reduce the drug flow into our country, so it's a two for one deal.

If we nuke GM maybe people won't have cars any more. Nice try, but no cigar. The drug cartels exist because Americans have an insatiable appetite for drugs.

If there are no drugs to take, you lose that appetite real quick.

 

[pismoe]

the thing with the WALL to me is simply to assert SOVEREIGNTY . The WALL will help prevent entry into the USA of third worlders who sometimes end up becoming citizens with voting rights that they will use to change the USA into where they came from . And of course it will Stop some drug flow into the USA . But to me the entire issue is simply asserting SOVEREIGNTY .

Everybody in favor of the wall has their own personal reasons. The battle cry is generally about border security. But, let's stop again and address this concern.

The real issue with me is that those who want a border wall believe that rights are granted by a God / government. Therefore, the only avenue they see whereby foreigners come here is through some process they call "legal." This terminology, generally speaking, is code for citizenship. The reality is, our immigration laws were written to encourage non-white immigration. The reality is, most non-white nations are third world. The reality is, once those people become citizens, they outvote you at some point and all this drivel about sovereignty goes out the door.

I am AGAINST wholesale citizenship. Hope you understand that.

When you nullify the Bill of Rights, especially starting with the Fourth Amendment; when you tell the employer the government is going to dictate who he can and cannot hire; when you attack the free enterprise system; when you demand to build a government so big that it cannot be resisted when it enforces tyrannical laws, you lose me on this "sovereignty" issue. You can have sovereignty and not have a militarized border.

----------------------------------------------- to me the only issue is ASSERTING Sovereignty . Feck the 'chamber of commerce' Porter .

Building a wall does not assert sovereignty. It is the moral equivalent of the declaration of war - a war that the people of the United States initiated. Given the decisions by the United States Supreme Court and the trend America has taken toward the left, you're like a little boy that is using a small stick to taunt a lion.

"If a man could have half his wishes, he'd just double his trouble" Johnny Cash in the song The Farmer's Almanac

------------------------ taunt the Lion , who is the LION Porter ??

The masses of liberals who turn out and are voting the right into oblivion.

--------------------------------------------- thats why i have often said on this board these last 3 or 4 years that i am happy to be OLD . I envision the 'millenials' and their kids and maybe YOU getting this fecked up USA that you 'libs' are building in the near future Porter .

 

[Porter Rockwell]

Our nation will NOT be more secure because you build a wall. Quite the converse will be true. A wall would create more tension between our neighbors to the south.

So?????

I realize that you have your perspective, but the answer to any problem lies in considering all the differing perspectives. Unless you are willing to argue that our neighbors to the south are genetically predisposed to gangs, poverty, and violence I would hope that you hear me out on this:

Drug cartels, gangs and the violence that ensues exist because the people in the United States are the world's primary consumers of drugs. If we quit supplying the drug users, there then is no need for drug cartels.

Furthermore, if people come to the United States and engage in lawful pursuits AND we pass laws to make sure that things like education and welfare are the benefits and privileges of CITIZENSHIP, there is no incentive for them to stay here. They can make some money and go home, invest their savings and ultimately become independent enough so that they don't feel a need to be in the United States.

Stopping drug dependency is like trying to stop drunk drivers, people gambling, littering, and suicides. In other words, it's an impossibility unless we do what Singapore does and execute drug users and sellers. So we can't use that as an excuse for people from other countries coming here and killing Americans. That's like blaming the woman who got raped.

Drugs have been around my entire life. Opioid use was very rare however. You could find pot when I was young, but now that I'm pushing 60, I can honestly say I've never seen heroin in my life. It simply wasn't around back then mostly because of cost.

But today, opioids are around for younger people nearly as much as pot was in my teen days. That wouldn't be the case if the supply wasn't there. If it's ready available, more people are likely to experiment with it and end up hooked.

So we need to make efforts to reduce the supply of recreational narcotics. You can't do that with an open border just about anybody can cross. It's not the only step necessary, but a very large step in this fight.

An open border does not create drug addicts.

Let me walk you through this once:

Parents and schools have turned the rearing of children up to the government. You cannot spank your children, reprimand them nor restrain them in any way.

The government's solution is to start at a very young age, giving children Ritalin or Adderall for nonexistent problems. Children are "anxious and / or hyperactive because they eat too much, sugar, live in a home where there is a lot of drama and instability; they don't get the right diet, enough or too much sleep and no exercise.

But, we don't fix it. We make drug addicts out of children and they eventually end up on opioids and / or SSRIs. Many will then venture into illegal drugs. Millions quit school and go through life with no job skills, no education, no work history, no high school diploma, and a criminal record. By the time they hit their mid 20s, they are taken off their parents insurance and they resort to selling drugs to the next generation in order to live and feed their drug habit.

Rather than us do anything about it, we blame foreigners.

People are not addicts because they were children. Most addicts are created from prescription medication. But when the medical personnel cuts you off, that's it, you stop. However it's simply too easy to continue beyond your doctors recommendations by purchasing illegal drugs instead.

If the drugs are not there, you stand a much better chance at not becoming an addict.

An astounding 19 percent of high school-age boys – ages 14 to 17 – in the U.S. have been diagnosed with ADHD and about 10 percent are taking medication for it. Ten percent of high school-age girls have likewise been diagnosed. ...The CDC survey completed last year found an estimated 6.4 million children ages 4 to 17 had been diagnosed at some point, a 53 percent increase over the past decade. Approximately two-thirds of those currently diagnosed have been prescribed drugs such as Ritalin or Adderall. Those drugs can help patients with both mild and severe symptoms, but they can also cause addiction, anxiety and psychosis."

Read more at Radical increase in kids prescribed Ritalin - WND - WND

Bear in mind, ADD / ADHD are phony conditions, the symptoms of which can be treated WITHOUT drugs.

See this link as well:

A New Documentary About Adults On Adderall — And Not Just For ADHD

" On average, children who have symptoms of ADHD will receive a diagnosis at 7 years of age. ...When individuals with ADHD are compared to those without this disorder, the ADHD group is more likely to start abusing alcohol and other drugs at an earlier age."

ADHD and Addiction

"An estimated 5 percent of adults in the US have ADHD, which represents 11 million individuals."

ADHD and Addiction

11 million people taking drugs for a non-existent condition. The government says there are about 11 million undocumented foreigners in the U.S. You don't want to study and consider the drug culture being developed by the government and doctors?

I say they are full of shit because I do have ADD; had it since a child. So it's not fake, it's very real. While I have never taken any medication for it (it wasn't available during my time) I have learned to cope with it. But if there is something that could help people, it's fine with me as long as it doesn't have any side effects.

But regardless, it still has nothing to do with the opioid addiction we have today. Hell, Coke a Cola got it's name from guess where? They used to put codeine in caught syrup years ago. Never a problem.

I'd bet that when they make mental health an issue insofar as guns are concerned, your ADHD will disappear. I used to be a foster parent. EVERY child came in taking drugs. We got them off the drugs in a month or so. Anxiety and hypertension are best dealt with without drugs and can be minimized with a good lifestyle.