Why is Building the Wall Wrong?

[Ray From Cleveland]

Nothing.

But thinking that simply building a wall higher is going to noticeably slow down illegal immigration is ridiculous.

I don't know how you can say that given the hundred of thousands of apprehensions that happen at the border now.

 

[Skylar]

So let's fix that. And let's do it without indulging the shackles of big government.

The problems we have are the welfare state and birth-right citizenship. Neither of those requires the Berlin wall.

China / Hong Kong (early 1960s) - 32 km
Botswana / Zimbabwe 2003 - 500 km
Bulgaria / Turkey 2014 - 30 km
Chinese / Korean border fence (under construction) - 1,416 km
Macedonia / Greece barrier 2015 - 30 km
India / Myanmar barrier (under construction) - 1,624 km

Just the facts, and this is to name but a few. However, we are called to follow after other nations on how government faces health care? Yet a wall is immoral and racist, despite other nations around the globe seeing fit to do so against illegal immigration.

Explain that one to me. Anyone?

What is it you don't understand? Other nations have overbearing governments, bad laws and policies that violate individual liberty? Are you suggesting we follow their example?

Even Harry Reid saw the burden of illegals on our nation, and that was 1993. Look, liberals lost the cost argument on illegal immigration and now they are to lose on the nation’s border barrier argument.

I have no interest in the opinions of liberals, nor Harry Reid.

This is about (1) enforcement of CURRENT Federal Immigration Laws through deportation and ICE,

(2) an amnesty decision during the Reagan administration with the promise of strict border enforcement that never happened. In fact that amnesty decision only made the immigration problem WORSE not better with a larger amount of illegals in our country that we must deal with.

(3) A flow of violent MS-13 gangs, the report of repeat offender illegals that don’t get deported or reported to ICE

(4) sex trafficking coming in from our southern neighbor.

Perhaps you aren’t willing to take these issues seriously.


Interesting to note how democrats blame the increase of violent crime deaths among the most STRICT of cities ... like California, Maryland, and Michigan ... on filtering weapons from neighboring states. Yet these same liberal democrats will throw their support behind open borders with Mexico.

Who is supporting an open border with Mexico? You're citing California. Show us Governor Brown advocating an open border.

You can't. You're not citing 'liberal democrats'. You're citing yourself AS liberal democrats.

That's the same thing, is it?

You're supporting an open border with Mexico, douchebag. You keep opposing doing anything that would actually work.

Quote me advocating an open border. You'll find you're suffering from your ordinary delusions.

Walls don't work. Cutting off the supply of work that keeps drawing illegals here.....that works.

 

[Billo_Really]

View attachment 237043


Thanks for proving once and for all times that you are a total idiot not worth my spit. Right BR. Now there is no such thing as a law breaker. ALL people have some inalienable right to do whatever they please. Please send me your address; I want to come there and rob you of everything you have (if you have anything worth taking). It's my inalienable right.

So, you're an American criminal? Where's the wall around you?

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

What you are neglecting is that most of the people that are in the county illegally will still be in the country even if you build a wall and even if it's successful. That is not going change till the immigration laws are changed The size of the illegal immigrant population will not decrease significantly because undocumented immigrants stay where most people with work permits do return home. Also, the flow of people with entry visas will continue and many of those will become undocumented by overstay their visas.

Lastly, we need these people today and we're going to need them a lot more as our workforce shrinks in the 21st century.

Exactly. Corporatists on both sides will keep importing immigrants to fill the jobs and for growth. So building a wall won’t make wages go up because they’ll keep flooding the market with low skilled workers.

Then those corporations would not only be guilty of hiring these people, but complicit in breaking our immigration laws as well unless they bring them here legally.

That's one of the reasons I focus on E-Verify.

We should focus on everything; not just one avenue. If we stuck together to do all we can to stop illegal immigration, it would be stopped. However like everything else, it comes down to power and politics.

Start with the least expensive, most immediate and most effective solutions FIRST. E-Verify hits all those marks. Its ready right now, its very inexpensive, and it works. It also addresses a huge source of illegal immigrants; those who have overstayed their visas.

The wall....is expensive, slow, ineffective, and doesn't even address a full third of llegal immigration. Its a stupid policy. And the one the president is leading with.

Like I said, do any and everything that will work. But since the wall will take the most time to build, the sooner we start, the better. Even if it was only E-Verify, people still come here to have babies, they still come here to sell drugs, they still come here to live with family that's already here. E-Verify will never be successful on it's own just like a wall won't be successful on it's own.

The only solution that hits all avenues of illegal crossings are if we make being here illegal a first degree felony with a minimum sentence of 5 years in prison. Then we wouldn't need a wall or E-Veryfiy. The only border problem we would have are people rushing to get the hell out of this country.

 

[Billo_Really]

Fine with me. Keep the government closed down.

You talk too much!

 

[bripat9643]

It isn't possible for that to be a lie, moron. It's an opinion, and it's far more credible than yours. The theory that foreigners have a right to emigrate here couldn't be more idiotic.

WTF are you talking about? This country was founded by emigrating foreigners. As an American, we believe in the rule of law. Requesting asylum is codified in international law. Not respecting the law, is not being an American.

This country was founded by native born Americans, dumbass.

 

[Billo_Really]

Oh trust me, that I can whole heartedly believe.

Next week, we open a can of "whoop ass".

 

[bripat9643]

What you are neglecting is that most of the people that are in the county illegally will still be in the country even if you build a wall and even if it's successful. That is not going change till the immigration laws are changed The size of the illegal immigrant population will not decrease significantly because undocumented immigrants stay where most people with work permits do return home. Also, the flow of people with entry visas will continue and many of those will become undocumented by overstay their visas.

Lastly, we need these people today and we're going to need them a lot more as our workforce shrinks in the 21st century.

Exactly. Corporatists on both sides will keep importing immigrants to fill the jobs and for growth. So building a wall won’t make wages go up because they’ll keep flooding the market with low skilled workers.

Then those corporations would not only be guilty of hiring these people, but complicit in breaking our immigration laws as well unless they bring them here legally.

That's one of the reasons I focus on E-Verify.

We should focus on everything; not just one avenue. If we stuck together to do all we can to stop illegal immigration, it would be stopped. However like everything else, it comes down to power and politics.

Start with the least expensive, most immediate and most effective solutions FIRST. E-Verify hits all those marks. Its ready right now, its very inexpensive, and it works. It also addresses a huge source of illegal immigrants; those who have overstayed their visas.

The wall....is expensive, slow, ineffective, and doesn't even address a full third of llegal immigration. Its a stupid policy. And the one the president is leading with.

There's nothing stopping Congress from implementing E-verify and building the wall at the same time. That's not a valid argument against building the wall. Furthermore, we all know the government will not enforce the use of E-verify.

 

[bripat9643]

It isn't possible for that to be a lie, moron. It's an opinion, and it's far more credible than yours. The theory that foreigners have a right to emigrate here couldn't be more idiotic.

WTF are you talking about? This country was founded by emigrating foreigners. As an American, we believe in the rule of law. Requesting asylum is codified in international law. Not respecting the law, is not being an American.

We ignore international law whenever we feel like it.

 

[Billo_Really]

What did you want him to do?

Something, other than nothing.

What Bush Knew Before Sept. 11

Bin Laden determined to strike in the US.

Now tell me page and paragraph where anything in the travel ban referred to race.

It was called the Muslim travel ban.

You know, you have to quit letting MSM tell you how to think. Try it yourself sometime.

Nice try.

 

[Billo_Really]

So you're saying this country doesn't belong to us, it belongs to the entire world? When did that happen?

The world population is 7.5 billion people. Excluding our population, that's about 7.2 billion. Given the fact that many people on the planet live like those in S/C America, how many of those 7.2 billion do you want to let in?

I'm saying you have no right stopping someone from requesting asylum.

 

[Skylar]

Ray is the most disrespectful person on this board. You are the most ignorant. Calling people names is a testament to your character.

The fact is, it is YOUR fault that the courts put people just like you in prison and then declared that undocumented have civil rights - and those civil rights trumped those who think just like you.

If people had a Right to protect private property, all private property along the border would be being protected by civilian militias.

You're a certifiable idiot. People have a right to use force to protect their property. The fact is irrefutable. I have personally had a shotgun pointed in my direction by a rancher because we were on his land.

Debating you is a waste of time because so much of what you believe just isn't true.

Most states don't recognize the use of lethal force for mere trespassing. Deadly force in the defense of one's life is permitted. Deadly force in defense of property alone generally isn't. Most uses of lethal force must be in response to reasonable fear of serious, imminent bodily harm to oneself or others

I didn't use the term "lethal force." However, in many states, if someone breaks into your home, you are allowed to blow them away. You are allowed to use force against trespassers.

Not 'any place'. But one's home specifically. You couldn't, for example, shoot someone on your lawn without a reasonable fear of serious, imminent bodily harm to one's self or others.

Trying to shift that to the use of deadly force on the border when someone is trying to enter the country.....would be poorly supported legally.

There're a number places in world where deadly force is used by individuals and the government to prevent border crossing. For the most part the people making crossing are armed and dangerous, often criminals and terrorist. Most of the people attempting illegal crossings of our southern border are not terrorists are even criminals. They're people seeking a safe haven and chance to make a living wage. They would certainly enter legally if they could. However for most of these countries getting into the US without having family in the US is nearly impossible.

Exactly. Corporatists on both sides will keep importing immigrants to fill the jobs and for growth. So building a wall won’t make wages go up because they’ll keep flooding the market with low skilled workers.

Then those corporations would not only be guilty of hiring these people, but complicit in breaking our immigration laws as well unless they bring them here legally.

That's one of the reasons I focus on E-Verify.

We should focus on everything; not just one avenue. If we stuck together to do all we can to stop illegal immigration, it would be stopped. However like everything else, it comes down to power and politics.

Start with the least expensive, most immediate and most effective solutions FIRST. E-Verify hits all those marks. Its ready right now, its very inexpensive, and it works. It also addresses a huge source of illegal immigrants; those who have overstayed their visas.

The wall....is expensive, slow, ineffective, and doesn't even address a full third of llegal immigration. Its a stupid policy. And the one the president is leading with.

There's nothing stopping Congress from implementing E-verify and building the wall at the same time. That's not a valid argument against building the wall. Furthermore, we all know the government will not enforce the use of E-verify.

Sure there is: Funding and Time.

The wall costs billions and billions of dollars and would take about a decade to implement. And as Trump's own chief of Staff has noted, would be ineffective. Worse, it incentivizes illegals to stay here once they've arrived.

Where as E-Verify works immediately, as its already in place. With any policy changes implemented in a matter of months. You could resolve the overwhelming majority of illegal immigration, including the full 1/3 that the wall doesn't address in anyway, within a year.

And you'd get broad, bipartisan support. You don't need a government shut down for it.

But Trump is an idiot. And would rather shut down the government for a vanity project that is among the slowest, most expensive, least effective solutions imaginable for a border that per Trump is ALREADY SECURE.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Something, other than nothing.

Something like what? Bin Laden (like the hundreds of threats received by the White House every day) had plans to attack America. What was Bush supposed to do with no information about that. And let me ask: Since Bush was so hated by the left, what would they have done if Bush put TSA in the airports to prevent 911? Do you think they would have just taken his word that he knew something nobody else knew?

Bin Laden determined to strike in the US.

Just as he was determined to strike the US under Bill Clinton.

It was called the Muslim travel ban.

No, the anti-white party called it a Muslim Travel Ban. A majority of Muslims were un-effected by the ban that only targeted certain countries.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

So you're saying this country doesn't belong to us, it belongs to the entire world? When did that happen?

The world population is 7.5 billion people. Excluding our population, that's about 7.2 billion. Given the fact that many people on the planet live like those in S/C America, how many of those 7.2 billion do you want to let in?

I'm saying you have no right stopping someone from requesting asylum.

But we do have the right to restrict access to the US after they apply like Trump is doing. Under DumBama, catch and release was his way of doing things, so these people came here knowing they could sneak in and afterwards, never attend their court date. Then they could settle in some Sanctuary city and be protected from the federal government, even getting an apartment, a drivers license, and credit cards.

 

[Flopper]

They didn't do anything because it was going in their favor. Young male men who could fight for their country, kids, pregnant women all came here and got in under Catch and Release. So the Democrats are going to have to do something (if they ever gain full power again) because Trump is doing what he can to solve this problem. The anti-white party doesn't want the problem solved, they want it to grow.

When democrats took control of goverment in 2008, immigration was a non-issue for most Americans. It was healthcare and the economy and that is what democrats focused on.

Thanks to Donald Trump he has created a crisis in immigration where none exist. If democrats have sufficient control of government in 2020, there will be real immigration reform. It could come in the next two years with a democratic House. Both democrats and republicans in congress agree on a number immigration issues and Donald's only real interest in immigration is building a wall. Democrats will be willing to give Trump his wall for the right kind of immigration bill.

No they will not. Piglosi said it herself, the wall is totally off the table. Nothing is being traded for it.

Immigration has always been a problem. Perhaps you on the left could care less, but for the rest of us, a real problem. Donald Trump didn't create a problem, he addressed the problem. In fact that's what led to his victory against Hil-Liar. Every other candidate spoke the same way about illegals. Blah, blah, blah, Blah, blah, blah. Only Trump was transcending in what he said. He told us what we wanted to hear: We are going to stop illegals from entering this country. We will build a wall. And that's why in light of our congressional loss, Trump is addressing the issue much more seriously.

There are far more affordable, faster, and more effective methods: Make E-Verify mandatory and put some teeth in it.

Illegal immigrant focused enforcement is stupid. Illegals are numerous, numbering in the tens of millions. They move. We don't know where they live. They may or may not be using their own names. And if we deport them, they can come back.

Use employer based focus.....the same way we focus our drug enforcement policy not on the users, but on the sellers and distributors. Employers make far more sense. They're public, they generally don't move, they're easy to find (most advertise!), they use their real names, and they're far less numerous.

Make the use of E-verify mandatory. Give any employer that doesn't use it 1 year in prison....including HR people and Hiring Managers. If an employer uses E-Verify and a perspective employee passes...and are later found to be illegal, the employer is free and clear. Employers only get in trouble if they don't use E-Verify.

The system already exists, is easy to use....so there's no ramp up or roll out. It takes a few minutes per employee and can be done online or over the phone. Merely make it mandatory, put some teeth behind it and give employers a 6 month grace period to bring their employees into compliance. You'd need a few dozen high profile prosecutions before employers got the message....and jobs for illegals dried up.

In comparison to their home countries, the US is usually expensive. With no work, they'll largely deport themselves. You could have the vast majority of the illegal immigration problem fixed in about a year. It would work and work well.

Utter horseshit. All your claims have been refuted in this forum 1000 times. The wall has been proven the most effective method for controlling illegal immigration.

Nope. And no, it hasn't.

A wall actually increases illegal immigration by making it more expensive to cross the border. Before a wall immigrants would come here, earn money, and then go home. There were entire seasonal work forces that would arrive from Mexico, help bring in a harvest of a particular crop, earn some money and go home. And come back the next year for the next harvest season.

Now people have to work for years to pay back the cost of crossing the border. Meaning they have to stay longer. And when they stay longer, they have more kids here, there is less incentive for them to go home.

Worse, about a third of illegals are folks who merely overstayed visas. Which walls do nothing to prevent.

Walls are expensive to make expensive to buy land for and even more expensive to maintain. They can be circumvented by anyone who really wants to. To quote Trump's own chief of staff,

"the bottom line is the fence doesn't stop anybody who really wants to get across. You go under, you go around, you go through it. And that's what the ranchers tell us, is that they don't need a fence."

Mick Mulvaney

Mick Mulvaney in 2015: Trump's views on border wall 'simplistic,' 'absurd and almost childish' - CNNPolitics

Nor does the fence keep them from coming back.

The E-Verify system works on all of those fronts. It eliminates the work that illegals come here for, or those overstaying their visas require in order to stay here. Compared to their home countries, the US is usually expensive. Stripped of the means of making a living, most would go home where its far cheaper.

The wall is orders of magnitude MORE expensive, takes years to build, is wildly expensive to maintain, is ineffective, doesn't address 1/3 or illegal immigrants at all, and actually increases the incentive for them to stay once they've arrived. Its a stupid proposal.

E-Verify is orders of magnitude LESS expensive, it is already in place, its maintenance costs are minimal (a website, phone line and paperwork), its very effective, it DOES address the 1/3 of illegal immigrants that the wall ignores, and it REDUCES the incentive for illegals to stay here. Its a smart proposal.

A wall will also increase the number illegal immigrants because the increased border security makes it harder for migrants to leave without being picked by immigration and getting back in the US is harder so once in they are here to stay.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Oh trust me, that I can whole heartedly believe.

Next week, we open a can of "whoop ass".

What are you going to "whoop" when you have a Republican led Senate and a Republican White House? Are the Democrats going to beat each other up or something?

 

[Skylar]

When democrats took control of goverment in 2008, immigration was a non-issue for most Americans. It was healthcare and the economy and that is what democrats focused on.

Thanks to Donald Trump he has created a crisis in immigration where none exist. If democrats have sufficient control of government in 2020, there will be real immigration reform. It could come in the next two years with a democratic House. Both democrats and republicans in congress agree on a number immigration issues and Donald's only real interest in immigration is building a wall. Democrats will be willing to give Trump his wall for the right kind of immigration bill.

No they will not. Piglosi said it herself, the wall is totally off the table. Nothing is being traded for it.

Immigration has always been a problem. Perhaps you on the left could care less, but for the rest of us, a real problem. Donald Trump didn't create a problem, he addressed the problem. In fact that's what led to his victory against Hil-Liar. Every other candidate spoke the same way about illegals. Blah, blah, blah, Blah, blah, blah. Only Trump was transcending in what he said. He told us what we wanted to hear: We are going to stop illegals from entering this country. We will build a wall. And that's why in light of our congressional loss, Trump is addressing the issue much more seriously.

There are far more affordable, faster, and more effective methods: Make E-Verify mandatory and put some teeth in it.

Illegal immigrant focused enforcement is stupid. Illegals are numerous, numbering in the tens of millions. They move. We don't know where they live. They may or may not be using their own names. And if we deport them, they can come back.

Use employer based focus.....the same way we focus our drug enforcement policy not on the users, but on the sellers and distributors. Employers make far more sense. They're public, they generally don't move, they're easy to find (most advertise!), they use their real names, and they're far less numerous.

Make the use of E-verify mandatory. Give any employer that doesn't use it 1 year in prison....including HR people and Hiring Managers. If an employer uses E-Verify and a perspective employee passes...and are later found to be illegal, the employer is free and clear. Employers only get in trouble if they don't use E-Verify.

The system already exists, is easy to use....so there's no ramp up or roll out. It takes a few minutes per employee and can be done online or over the phone. Merely make it mandatory, put some teeth behind it and give employers a 6 month grace period to bring their employees into compliance. You'd need a few dozen high profile prosecutions before employers got the message....and jobs for illegals dried up.

In comparison to their home countries, the US is usually expensive. With no work, they'll largely deport themselves. You could have the vast majority of the illegal immigration problem fixed in about a year. It would work and work well.

Utter horseshit. All your claims have been refuted in this forum 1000 times. The wall has been proven the most effective method for controlling illegal immigration.

Nope. And no, it hasn't.

A wall actually increases illegal immigration by making it more expensive to cross the border. Before a wall immigrants would come here, earn money, and then go home. There were entire seasonal work forces that would arrive from Mexico, help bring in a harvest of a particular crop, earn some money and go home. And come back the next year for the next harvest season.

Now people have to work for years to pay back the cost of crossing the border. Meaning they have to stay longer. And when they stay longer, they have more kids here, there is less incentive for them to go home.

Worse, about a third of illegals are folks who merely overstayed visas. Which walls do nothing to prevent.

Walls are expensive to make expensive to buy land for and even more expensive to maintain. They can be circumvented by anyone who really wants to. To quote Trump's own chief of staff,

"the bottom line is the fence doesn't stop anybody who really wants to get across. You go under, you go around, you go through it. And that's what the ranchers tell us, is that they don't need a fence."

Mick Mulvaney

Mick Mulvaney in 2015: Trump's views on border wall 'simplistic,' 'absurd and almost childish' - CNNPolitics

Nor does the fence keep them from coming back.

The E-Verify system works on all of those fronts. It eliminates the work that illegals come here for, or those overstaying their visas require in order to stay here. Compared to their home countries, the US is usually expensive. Stripped of the means of making a living, most would go home where its far cheaper.

The wall is orders of magnitude MORE expensive, takes years to build, is wildly expensive to maintain, is ineffective, doesn't address 1/3 or illegal immigrants at all, and actually increases the incentive for them to stay once they've arrived. Its a stupid proposal.

E-Verify is orders of magnitude LESS expensive, it is already in place, its maintenance costs are minimal (a website, phone line and paperwork), its very effective, it DOES address the 1/3 of illegal immigrants that the wall ignores, and it REDUCES the incentive for illegals to stay here. Its a smart proposal.

A wall will also increase the number illegal immigrants because the increased border security makes it harder for migrants to leave without being picked by immigration and getting back in the US is harder so once in they are here to stay.

Exactly. The wall is just layers of stupid.

 

[WheelieAddict]

I'm still waiting for that Mexico money. Any day now.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

When democrats took control of goverment in 2008, immigration was a non-issue for most Americans. It was healthcare and the economy and that is what democrats focused on.

Thanks to Donald Trump he has created a crisis in immigration where none exist. If democrats have sufficient control of government in 2020, there will be real immigration reform. It could come in the next two years with a democratic House. Both democrats and republicans in congress agree on a number immigration issues and Donald's only real interest in immigration is building a wall. Democrats will be willing to give Trump his wall for the right kind of immigration bill.

No they will not. Piglosi said it herself, the wall is totally off the table. Nothing is being traded for it.

Immigration has always been a problem. Perhaps you on the left could care less, but for the rest of us, a real problem. Donald Trump didn't create a problem, he addressed the problem. In fact that's what led to his victory against Hil-Liar. Every other candidate spoke the same way about illegals. Blah, blah, blah, Blah, blah, blah. Only Trump was transcending in what he said. He told us what we wanted to hear: We are going to stop illegals from entering this country. We will build a wall. And that's why in light of our congressional loss, Trump is addressing the issue much more seriously.

There are far more affordable, faster, and more effective methods: Make E-Verify mandatory and put some teeth in it.

Illegal immigrant focused enforcement is stupid. Illegals are numerous, numbering in the tens of millions. They move. We don't know where they live. They may or may not be using their own names. And if we deport them, they can come back.

Use employer based focus.....the same way we focus our drug enforcement policy not on the users, but on the sellers and distributors. Employers make far more sense. They're public, they generally don't move, they're easy to find (most advertise!), they use their real names, and they're far less numerous.

Make the use of E-verify mandatory. Give any employer that doesn't use it 1 year in prison....including HR people and Hiring Managers. If an employer uses E-Verify and a perspective employee passes...and are later found to be illegal, the employer is free and clear. Employers only get in trouble if they don't use E-Verify.

The system already exists, is easy to use....so there's no ramp up or roll out. It takes a few minutes per employee and can be done online or over the phone. Merely make it mandatory, put some teeth behind it and give employers a 6 month grace period to bring their employees into compliance. You'd need a few dozen high profile prosecutions before employers got the message....and jobs for illegals dried up.

In comparison to their home countries, the US is usually expensive. With no work, they'll largely deport themselves. You could have the vast majority of the illegal immigration problem fixed in about a year. It would work and work well.

Utter horseshit. All your claims have been refuted in this forum 1000 times. The wall has been proven the most effective method for controlling illegal immigration.

Nope. And no, it hasn't.

A wall actually increases illegal immigration by making it more expensive to cross the border. Before a wall immigrants would come here, earn money, and then go home. There were entire seasonal work forces that would arrive from Mexico, help bring in a harvest of a particular crop, earn some money and go home. And come back the next year for the next harvest season.

Now people have to work for years to pay back the cost of crossing the border. Meaning they have to stay longer. And when they stay longer, they have more kids here, there is less incentive for them to go home.

Worse, about a third of illegals are folks who merely overstayed visas. Which walls do nothing to prevent.

Walls are expensive to make expensive to buy land for and even more expensive to maintain. They can be circumvented by anyone who really wants to. To quote Trump's own chief of staff,

"the bottom line is the fence doesn't stop anybody who really wants to get across. You go under, you go around, you go through it. And that's what the ranchers tell us, is that they don't need a fence."

Mick Mulvaney

Mick Mulvaney in 2015: Trump's views on border wall 'simplistic,' 'absurd and almost childish' - CNNPolitics

Nor does the fence keep them from coming back.

The E-Verify system works on all of those fronts. It eliminates the work that illegals come here for, or those overstaying their visas require in order to stay here. Compared to their home countries, the US is usually expensive. Stripped of the means of making a living, most would go home where its far cheaper.

The wall is orders of magnitude MORE expensive, takes years to build, is wildly expensive to maintain, is ineffective, doesn't address 1/3 or illegal immigrants at all, and actually increases the incentive for them to stay once they've arrived. Its a stupid proposal.

E-Verify is orders of magnitude LESS expensive, it is already in place, its maintenance costs are minimal (a website, phone line and paperwork), its very effective, it DOES address the 1/3 of illegal immigrants that the wall ignores, and it REDUCES the incentive for illegals to stay here. Its a smart proposal.

A wall will also increase the number illegal immigrants because the increased border security makes it harder for migrants to leave without being picked by immigration and getting back in the US is harder so once in they are here to stay.

No. When they leave, they can do so at a point of entry. Nobody is going to stop a Mexican from going back to Mexico.

 

[Billo_Really]

You're an idiot. It's been legal to use force against trespassers for 250 years.

Not only are you the idiot, you're a violent one.

...a person is allowed to use deadly force to protect their home if:

1. Another person is committing an illegal act, such as arson, burglary, robbery, or another felony,
2. There is a genuine and immediate danger for individuals
3. The use of deadly force would prevent or stop the illegal activity
4. Not using deadly force would put homeowners or family members at risk of serious bodily injury.

For example, you cannot use deadly force if person X is illegally, but innocently trespassing near person A's home, it would not be acceptable for person A to come after person X with a baseball bat and hit him on the head. ​