Debate Now Why Is Being "Politically Correct" A Bad Thing To Some People?

It's not telling them "not to be offended", its not allowing them to define the conversation due to their preconceptions and inability to handle ideas they don't like.
That doesnt make sense either. You cant have communication if both parties dont have input on defining the conversation.

PC doesn't attempt to define the conversation, it seeks to control the conversation.
Saying it again doesnt make it true. I already gave you the definition of PC. Its controlling the method by which the conversation is conducted.

Yes, but since it has already decided which side the conversation is "right" it is not only a method of control, but a biased one at that.
No its not decided. If it was decided you wouldnt be having the conversation.

PC inherently sides with the progressive view of any given conversation. When the more social conservative people were doing it, it wasn't PC, it was clothed in morality, and standards, and decorum. It's the same beast, with a different name.
 
So far no one has explained why being PC is a bad thing when attempting to communicate with someone. Can someone address that and make sense?

It has been explained plenty of times, by plenty of people, in multiple ways. May I suggest that you are simply not getting it?
No one has addressed my question. Its pretty simple. You want to communicate with someone but they dont like the manner in which you are communication. What do you do? Do you fail at your goal because you cant be bothered with being PC or do you become PC?

They have answered your question, you just don't like the answer.

No one has answered my question to this point. You have only talked around the question.

Again, there have been answers, but you don't like them.
 
That is the facade of PC, and back in the 90's it was what was considered PC. It was the show you put on to imply you were "right thinking" on various topics, which again leads us down the path to the goal of PC, not the show of PC, the goal being avoiding discussion on topics you disagree with, not engaging in said discussion.

Today, the definition of what is offensive has been expanded so greatly that it exposes the true reason behind PC, which is Idea control, not Language control.

When every phrase, term or saying that explains a position you don't like is considered offensive, then again, the true reason behind the whole PC/SJW/Micro-agression thing becomes clear.
That doesnt make sense though. There is no limit to what offends someone. You cant tell someone something doesnt offend them. Youre not them.

Being offended is a fault. It is something to be owned and either accepted or overcome.
Who gave you this rule and how does it foster communcation?
That is the facade of PC, and back in the 90's it was what was considered PC. It was the show you put on to imply you were "right thinking" on various topics, which again leads us down the path to the goal of PC, not the show of PC, the goal being avoiding discussion on topics you disagree with, not engaging in said discussion.

Today, the definition of what is offensive has been expanded so greatly that it exposes the true reason behind PC, which is Idea control, not Language control.

When every phrase, term or saying that explains a position you don't like is considered offensive, then again, the true reason behind the whole PC/SJW/Micro-agression thing becomes clear.
That doesnt make sense though. There is no limit to what offends someone. You cant tell someone something doesnt offend them. Youre not them.

Being offended is a fault. It is something to be owned and either accepted or overcome.
Who gave you this rule and how does it foster communcation?

If you are offended by words then you are unable to communicate rationally with them.
Thats nonsensical. No one is offended by all words.

Yes and no dilloduck and Asclepias
Because everyone has our own history, issues and perceptions,
Each of us is GOING to run into words that other people use that we cannot hear if they keep using that.

Some people can't handle saying Creation instead of Universe.
Or the Nword instead of African American.
Or calling the other person a Whiny Bitch instead of just sticking to the content.

Some of this is the language, some is the spirit, and intent.

Both sides are going to run into problem areas, because we are all in process
of resolving sensitive issues that are personal to us. We have our own language
and experience/direction and "comfort zone" and so does the other person.

To try to meet halfway takes stretching out of the regular zone and limits
both sides are used to. it's going to open both sides up to vulnerable areas where we react emotionally.
And YES words and associations with groups TRIGGER these memories and emotions to be expressed.

Unfortunately we are not robots. We cannot separate our logistical "yes/no" logic in one corner,
and our personal emotions about what we are discussing, in another corner, nice and neat,
while discussing this. The emotions will come up while we are talking and even the WORDS can trigger these reactions. (It's like trying to counsel a divorcing couple to stick to legal issues, when their marriage kids and families emotions are involved, of course, the
tears and anger and emotions are going to come up during the process. We are only human.)

The group that does the best job I've found for moderating discussion on
sensitive issues of racial conflicts and experiences is the Center for the Healing of Racism.
If you look at their guidelines for how to facilitate the discussion so that emotions can be
vented WITHOUT assessing or attacking any group or person as "representing" that whole idea,
that is the main thing they help people to avoid, and only speak from their experience and how they felt.

* NOT trying to make statements for or about "all other people or groups" which is where it incites reactions.*

http://www.houstonprogressive.org

I guess, Asclepias the key is to stick to INDIVIDUAL expression about one's OWN experiences and feelings, and the problem is trying to make COLLECTIVE statements that represent people outside yourself. The minute people start projecting collectively, that's when other people jump up and say "whoa that doesn't apply to me."

Individuals who stick to expressing and representing their feelings and take responsibility individually tend not to get attacked or put others on the defensive.

Collective groups who only represent what their own members agreed to support among themselves tend to come across okay.

But it's when individuals in a group get together and try to dictate to others or the collective public "outside their own" agreed group, that's when it triggers other people who didn't agree to that way of stating or doing it, feel threatened, and then go on a counter-offensive.

This is human nature to organize in groups with likeminded agenda.
And the WORDS we use do segregate us into cliques, where we start reacting since we as humans associate memories, emotions, and events with those words in those contexts.

we are human beings, and we are going to make emotional associations with words,
right or wrong, positive or negative, our brains and neural networks are designed to do this.
Instead of fighting it, or blaming people for their associations and reactions,
why not work with them and try to find common terms that we can both agree to use.
 
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So far no one has explained why being PC is a bad thing when attempting to communicate with someone. Can someone address that and make sense?

If the goal is just to have a light pleasant chit chat then PC is fine. If you want to have an honest and rational conversation and exchange of ideas then PC is counter productive.
Thank you. Ok now explain to me why you think its counter productive? Show me how keeping the lines of communication flowing is a bad thing.

The offended person is the one who refuses to listen.
 
So far no one has explained why being PC is a bad thing when attempting to communicate with someone. Can someone address that and make sense?

It has been explained plenty of times, by plenty of people, in multiple ways. May I suggest that you are simply not getting it?
No one has addressed my question. Its pretty simple. You want to communicate with someone but they dont like the manner in which you are communication. What do you do? Do you fail at your goal because you cant be bothered with being PC or do you become PC?

They have answered your question, you just don't like the answer.

No one has answered my question to this point. You have only talked around the question.

Again, there have been answers, but you don't like them.
So far only one answer and I condone the persons show of intellect.
 
So far no one has explained why being PC is a bad thing when attempting to communicate with someone. Can someone address that and make sense?

If the goal is just to have a light pleasant chit chat then PC is fine. If you want to have an honest and rational conversation and exchange of ideas then PC is counter productive.
Thank you. Ok now explain to me why you think its counter productive? Show me how keeping the lines of communication flowing is a bad thing.

The offended person is the one who refuses to listen.
Thats inherently untrue. The person not being PC isnt listening to the offended person.
 
I've seen many times on this board the term "politically correct" being used in derogatory manner. It baffles me to be honest. What is it that would make being politically correct something to frown upon as opposed to a tool to further communication?

Rules:

1. No off topic comments. Please address the question.
2. Be able to prove your position using common sense. No links

I think the issue comes where people want to be able to speak plainly as they ordinarily would and that some things the don't believe to be offensive, seems "over board" and "controlling" --- like you MUST phrase it a certain way - why? Not everything that is deemed a "politically correct" statement is necessarily offensive.

You can be quite offensive being politically correct as well. So you are not really cutting out offenses.
You are just masking them better.
 
It has been explained plenty of times, by plenty of people, in multiple ways. May I suggest that you are simply not getting it?
No one has addressed my question. Its pretty simple. You want to communicate with someone but they dont like the manner in which you are communication. What do you do? Do you fail at your goal because you cant be bothered with being PC or do you become PC?

They have answered your question, you just don't like the answer.

No one has answered my question to this point. You have only talked around the question.

Again, there have been answers, but you don't like them.
So far only one answer and I condone the persons show of intellect.

I have explained why PC is "bad", I have separated etiquette from PC, where you try to amalgam the two. You can decide if you agree with my answer or not, but you cannot say I have not answered your question.
 
No one has addressed my question. Its pretty simple. You want to communicate with someone but they dont like the manner in which you are communication. What do you do? Do you fail at your goal because you cant be bothered with being PC or do you become PC?

They have answered your question, you just don't like the answer.

No one has answered my question to this point. You have only talked around the question.

Again, there have been answers, but you don't like them.
So far only one answer and I condone the persons show of intellect.

I have explained why PC is "bad", I have separated etiquette from PC, where you try to amalgam the two. You can decide if you agree with my answer or not, but you cannot say I have not answered your question.
I already explained to you that PC and etiquette have nothing to do with each other. If you cant understand that I dont know what to tell you.
 
So far no one has explained why being PC is a bad thing when attempting to communicate with someone. Can someone address that and make sense?

If the goal is just to have a light pleasant chit chat then PC is fine. If you want to have an honest and rational conversation and exchange of ideas then PC is counter productive.
Thank you. Ok now explain to me why you think its counter productive? Show me how keeping the lines of communication flowing is a bad thing.

The offended person is the one who refuses to listen.
Thats inherently untrue. The person not being PC isnt listening to the offended person.

I've never had a conversation with anyone who has given me a list of words that offend them BEFORE we start speaking.
 
I've seen many times on this board the term "politically correct" being used in derogatory manner. It baffles me to be honest. What is it that would make being politically correct something to frown upon as opposed to a tool to further communication?

Rules:

1. No off topic comments. Please address the question.
2. Be able to prove your position using common sense. No links

I think the issue comes where people want to be able to speak plainly as they ordinarily would and that some things the don't believe to be offensive, seems "over board" and "controlling" --- like you MUST phrase it a certain way - why? Not everything that is deemed a "politically correct" statement is necessarily offensive.

You can be quite offensive being politically correct as well. So you are not really cutting out offenses.
You are just masking them better.
In masking them better you are keeping the lines of communication open and able to delve into the issues.
 
So far no one has explained why being PC is a bad thing when attempting to communicate with someone. Can someone address that and make sense?

If the goal is just to have a light pleasant chit chat then PC is fine. If you want to have an honest and rational conversation and exchange of ideas then PC is counter productive.
Thank you. Ok now explain to me why you think its counter productive? Show me how keeping the lines of communication flowing is a bad thing.

The offended person is the one who refuses to listen.
Thats inherently untrue. The person not being PC isnt listening to the offended person.

I've never had a conversation with anyone who has given me a list of words that offend them BEFORE we start speaking.
Thats great. What does that have to do with the observation I just pointed out to you? You claimed that the person that was offended and wouldnt listen was the only person not listening.
 
So far no one has explained why being PC is a bad thing when attempting to communicate with someone. Can someone address that and make sense?

If the goal is just to have a light pleasant chit chat then PC is fine. If you want to have an honest and rational conversation and exchange of ideas then PC is counter productive.
Thank you. Ok now explain to me why you think its counter productive? Show me how keeping the lines of communication flowing is a bad thing.

The offended person is the one who refuses to listen.

The offended person is the one who chooses to make the alleged "offender" the issue, and change the subject to how that person is a bad person.
 
So far no one has explained why being PC is a bad thing when attempting to communicate with someone. Can someone address that and make sense?

If the goal is just to have a light pleasant chit chat then PC is fine. If you want to have an honest and rational conversation and exchange of ideas then PC is counter productive.
Thank you. Ok now explain to me why you think its counter productive? Show me how keeping the lines of communication flowing is a bad thing.

The offended person is the one who refuses to listen.
Thats inherently untrue. The person not being PC isnt listening to the offended person.

says who?
 
So far no one has explained why being PC is a bad thing when attempting to communicate with someone. Can someone address that and make sense?

If the goal is just to have a light pleasant chit chat then PC is fine. If you want to have an honest and rational conversation and exchange of ideas then PC is counter productive.
Thank you. Ok now explain to me why you think its counter productive? Show me how keeping the lines of communication flowing is a bad thing.

The offended person is the one who refuses to listen.
Thats inherently untrue. The person not being PC isnt listening to the offended person.

says who?
Intellect.
 
People just don't like to be forced, per se. Social assassination falls in with that.
Mental conformity is the never the answer
If some jackass wants to be a dummy, let him. After all, its not hurting anyone. It only hurts someone if they let it. Build up your confidence and quit being a limp wrist.

Just in case you are not aware the bolded portion of my OP is the question that needs to be answered. I will state why I think its silly to view PC as a bad thing.

Communication happens when both parties are attempting to exchange ideas and learn. Communications is a connection between two entities. When one party gets offended that connection is broken. They are no longer listening and in many cases they are no longer willing to exchange anything with the offending party.

Who gets to define offended? PC tries to impart an artificial constraint on debate, often to the advantage of the person with the weaker position/argument (real or perceived weakness).

The goal of PC isn't to debate, it's to squash debate, because the crux of those who ascribe to PC is that there really isn't any argument. Their position is "right" and anyone who disagrees is an idiot who needs to be silenced, or some maleficent entity that needs to be silenced.
People just don't like to be forced, per se. Social assassination falls in with that.
Mental conformity is the never the answer
If some jackass wants to be a dummy, let him. After all, its not hurting anyone. It only hurts someone if they let it. Build up your confidence and quit being a limp wrist.

Just in case you are not aware the bolded portion of my OP is the question that needs to be answered. I will state why I think its silly to view PC as a bad thing.

Communication happens when both parties are attempting to exchange ideas and learn. Communications is a connection between two entities. When one party gets offended that connection is broken. They are no longer listening and in many cases they are no longer willing to exchange anything with the offending party.

Who gets to define offended? PC tries to impart an artificial constraint on debate, often to the advantage of the person with the weaker position/argument (real or perceived weakness).

The goal of PC isn't to debate, it's to squash debate, because the crux of those who ascribe to PC is that there really isn't any argument. Their position is "right" and anyone who disagrees is an idiot who needs to be silenced, or some maleficent entity that needs to be silenced.
The person being offended is the one that defines this of course. How can you offend yourself? For example. I say "hey woman this is the deal". The woman in turn asks me not to speak to her in that manner. Has nothing to do with the weight of the argument. Its only concerning the manner in which the information is exchanged. If I cant become PC and respect her wishes I just cut off communication. I may walk away feeling as if I "won" something but I have actually lost more. All I have really done is self validate my beliefs instead of learning something.

Dear Asclepias If the process of establishing neutral language is MUTUAL
as you describe above, where BOTH Sides are EQUALLY respected and free to address what offends them and what works,
then there is NO PROBLEM.

You seem to want it to be mutually open and want to hear all sides, whether you succeed at this or not.

However, what people are saying is it comes across as ONE SIDED
only ONE SIDE gets to say what is so offensive
but the other side gets struck down for doing the same.

I agree with you if the process were MUTUAL then it would be better received and practiced.

This wouldn't be called political correctness, but might be political inclusion or political sensitivity where both the right and left views are recognized as being excluded and offended by the language of the other.

BTW I support you fully in setting up dialogue, forums and facilitation for this two-sided open process where the give and take is equal and respected on all sides. I believe you will succeed where "political correctness" fails by truly being open to addressing the equal grievances and areas of insult that have affected all sides, not just the groups pushing PC as liberal agenda.

I would go with calling for "political diversity" "political inclusion" "political sensitivity or equality"

Unfortunately because people associate negative connotations with words,
"political correctness" is already not the political correct term for what you are seeking
but is already associated with totalitarian mandating of one group's agenda over free will of others. If you want to undo this association from the term "politically correct" and keep using that term, why not let people use the words THEY are using instead of changing to other terms? If you are saying the words they use "cause harm by invoking painful stereotypes"
then the same with the term PC that too many people associate with cultural Nazism.

Please be more sensitive, start a new movement by pushing for something more
universal, more inclusive, that clearly specifies the process is mutual and equal, not onesided as people "associate with the term PC."
 
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They have answered your question, you just don't like the answer.

No one has answered my question to this point. You have only talked around the question.

Again, there have been answers, but you don't like them.
So far only one answer and I condone the persons show of intellect.

I have explained why PC is "bad", I have separated etiquette from PC, where you try to amalgam the two. You can decide if you agree with my answer or not, but you cannot say I have not answered your question.
I already explained to you that PC and etiquette have nothing to do with each other. If you cant understand that I dont know what to tell you.

Your example of how your initial debated addressed the fictional woman in your example is one of etiquette. PC is about the content of the debate, not about the debaters.
 
I've seen many times on this board the term "politically correct" being used in derogatory manner. It baffles me to be honest. What is it that would make being politically correct something to frown upon as opposed to a tool to further communication?

Rules:

1. No off topic comments. Please address the question.
2. Be able to prove your position using common sense. No links

I think the issue comes where people want to be able to speak plainly as they ordinarily would and that some things the don't believe to be offensive, seems "over board" and "controlling" --- like you MUST phrase it a certain way - why? Not everything that is deemed a "politically correct" statement is necessarily offensive.

You can be quite offensive being politically correct as well. So you are not really cutting out offenses.
You are just masking them better.
In masking them better you are keeping the lines of communication open and able to delve into the issues.

NO you are not. Because no matter what you say, if the "offendee" doesn't like what you say, they can claim to be offended, no matter how it is phrased.

And then change the discussion to the supposed moral failings of the alleged offender.
 
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