Why I love politics

[MaggieMae]

Great post, Mags!

I see this more like a futbol game.

Unfortunately, this isn't Maracana Stadium in Rio with a moat separating the fans from the players. The fans storm the field, take the ball and the game is called on account of rain.

Does it ever get rescheduled?

 

[MaggieMae]

The love of the game. Win some, lose some. Cross fingers and hope in the end the best [man/team/bill] wins.

Here's how the health care reform game is likely to play out, comparing it to my equal love of football:

...

And at the end of the "game," an asteroid hits the Earth and everyone is killed.

You're no fun.

 

[MaggieMae]

Good Analogy.

Now, when that all plays out, I say we "the coach" cut the players next season for such piss poor performance throughout the year.

Immie

That's a possibility, although slight. The same kind of threats are made every election cycle--throw out all the old and vote in some new blood.

 

[skookerasbil]

This Health Care Reform Bill is going to be the defining element of the Obama Presidency. If he fails to get it passed, he will go down in flames - which he just might regardless depending on what the economy does as a result of the huge stimulus money being spent with little or no meaningful results. The cost of the Health Care Reform bill is going to come heavily into play because I think most Americans don't want to spend this kind of money at a time when the economy is not anything near "good". How Obama comes up with the money to pay for it will be a key to the bill's passage. Now, if this Health Care Reform bill gets passed with the current publics very low opinion of it, there will be a large number of unemployed Democrat Congressmembers come the next election. The House most likely will change over to Republican control and that will also be Obama's defining moment. The absolute best thing he could do, politically, is to call a TIME OUT, and carry this ball into the locker room to have it well-discussed and come back out to the field with a better game plan. Under it's current form, economic situation of the nation, public opinion considered, and Congressional support, I think Obama looses the game 21 - 20 in overtime.

On the contrary, if no health care initiative gets passed after all this, costs from the private sector will continue to rise and the same grumbling will occur next year and beyond. What will happen is more and more people looking at people like you and saying we told you so...

Clinton took a hammering in the early months of his first term over health care, and the polls (like Obama) had everyone predicting Clinton's early demise, but he went on to do other controversial things, ultimately leaving office with an approval rating of over 60% in spite of the Lewinsky scandal.

Nothing is as predictable as you would like. All you can do is wish. Frankly, I might half-way agree with you if the Republicans had a decent candidate that could bring the party back together. But it's fractured, has no platform, and needs at least another full election cycle before the GOP earns back its credibility.

Yeah.......but the big diference is that Bill Clinton ultimately governed from the center as compared to this moron in the White House now. Clinton was never an ideologue insofar as how he governed over 8 years. Obama shows little sign tht he gives a sh!t about the polls at all...............unlike Clinton.

Let me tell you something..........if Obama continues the lurch leftward, Boob McNut or Al Coholic will prevail for the Repubs in 2012. Sheeeet.............Romney is in a dead heat with Obama as we speak and Palin just 4% behind.

 

[Immanuel]

Good Analogy.

Now, when that all plays out, I say we "the coach" cut the players next season for such piss poor performance throughout the year.

Immie

That's a possibility, although slight. The same kind of threats are made every election cycle--throw out all the old and vote in some new blood.

Very slight... and I mean very slight. I don't think it will happen. Unfortunately, I don't even think it will do any good. If we did throw them out, we would only replace them with more of the same.

I think we need to do some revamping of our political system, but truthfully, I don't know how to change it.

Immie

 

[MaggieMae]

This Health Care Reform Bill is going to be the defining element of the Obama Presidency. If he fails to get it passed, he will go down in flames - which he just might regardless depending on what the economy does as a result of the huge stimulus money being spent with little or no meaningful results. The cost of the Health Care Reform bill is going to come heavily into play because I think most Americans don't want to spend this kind of money at a time when the economy is not anything near "good". How Obama comes up with the money to pay for it will be a key to the bill's passage. Now, if this Health Care Reform bill gets passed with the current publics very low opinion of it, there will be a large number of unemployed Democrat Congressmembers come the next election. The House most likely will change over to Republican control and that will also be Obama's defining moment. The absolute best thing he could do, politically, is to call a TIME OUT, and carry this ball into the locker room to have it well-discussed and come back out to the field with a better game plan. Under it's current form, economic situation of the nation, public opinion considered, and Congressional support, I think Obama looses the game 21 - 20 in overtime.

On the contrary, if no health care initiative gets passed after all this, costs from the private sector will continue to rise and the same grumbling will occur next year and beyond. What will happen is more and more people looking at people like you and saying we told you so...

Clinton took a hammering in the early months of his first term over health care, and the polls (like Obama) had everyone predicting Clinton's early demise, but he went on to do other controversial things, ultimately leaving office with an approval rating of over 60% in spite of the Lewinsky scandal.

Nothing is as predictable as you would like. All you can do is wish. Frankly, I might half-way agree with you if the Republicans had a decent candidate that could bring the party back together. But it's fractured, has no platform, and needs at least another full election cycle before the GOP earns back its credibility.

Yeah.......but the big diference is that Bill Clinton ultimately governed from the center as compared to this moron in the White House now. Clinton was never an ideologue insofar as how he governed over 8 years. Obama shows little sign tht he gives a sh!t about the polls at all...............unlike Clinton.

Let me tell you something..........if Obama continues the lurch leftward, Boob McNut or Al Coholic will prevail for the Repubs in 2012. Sheeeet.............Romney is in a dead heat with Obama as we speak and Palin just 4% behind.

If you had followed Clinton's career carefully, you would know that he didn't start out as a centrist. He was wise enough to realize that being faithful to his liberal and left-of-center independents who elected him was necessary at the outset (like Obama has done), but in order to bring order to the country, he needed to compromise with Gingrich et al. Clinton was great at triangulation, and believe it or not, that is Obama's ultimate goal too. Unfortunately for Barack Obama, he entered the arena where he was expected to take charge of and solve all the problems of an already collapsing economy, far far worse than anything the Clintons could have imagined when they began this journey.

This is an excerpt from a fascinating article from the December 23, 2007 New York Times Magazine, discussing Clinton's methods and how Obama's can even reach extensions of it more so than Hillary Clinton would.

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/12/23/magazine/23clintonism-t.html

Obama can rail about poll-tested positions and partisanship if he wants, but some of his most memorable speeches since being elected to the Senate have baldly echoed Clintonian themes and language. He has repeatedly called on poor African-Americans to take more responsibility for their parenting and their children’s education, and he has been skeptical of centralized federal programs for the poor, advocating a partnership between government and new kinds of community-based nonprofits. He has railed against “a mass-media culture that saturates our airwaves with a steady stream of sex, violence and materialism.” Such “values” stances were far outside the mainstream of the party before Bill Clinton expressed them.

In an impressive 2005 commencement speech at Knox College, Obama talked about economic transformation. “Instead of doing nothing or simply defending 20th-century solutions, let’s imagine together what we could do to give every American a fighting chance in the 21st century,” he said. “What if we prepared every child in America with the education and skills they need to compete in the new economy? If we made sure that college was affordable for everyone who wanted to go? If we walked up to those Maytag workers and said, Your old job is not coming back, but a new job will be there because we’re going to seriously retrain you and there’s a lifelong education waiting for you?

“Republicans will have to recognize our collective responsibilities,” he went on, “even as Democrats recognize that we have to do more than just defend old programs.” Bill Clinton could have spoken those exact words in 1991. In fact, it would be hard to find a better summation of the substance behind Clintonism.

 

[Big Black Dog]

This Health Care Reform Bill is going to be the defining element of the Obama Presidency. If he fails to get it passed, he will go down in flames - which he just might regardless depending on what the economy does as a result of the huge stimulus money being spent with little or no meaningful results. The cost of the Health Care Reform bill is going to come heavily into play because I think most Americans don't want to spend this kind of money at a time when the economy is not anything near "good". How Obama comes up with the money to pay for it will be a key to the bill's passage. Now, if this Health Care Reform bill gets passed with the current publics very low opinion of it, there will be a large number of unemployed Democrat Congressmembers come the next election. The House most likely will change over to Republican control and that will also be Obama's defining moment. The absolute best thing he could do, politically, is to call a TIME OUT, and carry this ball into the locker room to have it well-discussed and come back out to the field with a better game plan. Under it's current form, economic situation of the nation, public opinion considered, and Congressional support, I think Obama looses the game 21 - 20 in overtime.

On the contrary, if no health care initiative gets passed after all this, costs from the private sector will continue to rise and the same grumbling will occur next year and beyond. What will happen is more and more people looking at people like you and saying we told you so...

Clinton took a hammering in the early months of his first term over health care, and the polls (like Obama) had everyone predicting Clinton's early demise, but he went on to do other controversial things, ultimately leaving office with an approval rating of over 60% in spite of the Lewinsky scandal.

Nothing is as predictable as you would like. All you can do is wish. Frankly, I might half-way agree with you if the Republicans had a decent candidate that could bring the party back together. But it's fractured, has no platform, and needs at least another full election cycle before the GOP earns back its credibility.

I believe this is the right time in history for a very good, honorable, and strong leader to emerge as an Independent candidate for President. The right person could win the next Presidential election. Don't have a clue as to who this superman or superwoman might be because nobody comes to mind that I think could pull this off. However, I do feel that people are tired of both of the major political parties and all of their backbiting, in-fighting and inability to work together for the overall good of the American citizens. Both parties are more interested in staying in power than for doing what the public sent them to Washington to do. Many have been in Congress for so long that they have become political entities in their own right. It's time to take the broom out and clean house in Congress.

I think a closer look at what the Health Care Reform bill is going to look like when it gets passed is a very watered down, basically worthless piece of legislation that really isn't worth the paper it's written on. The Democrats will be able to jump up and down and say how successful they were and in time sneak all the crap the American public doesn't really want into a law later down the road. The Republicans will be able to say that they saved the day in making the Democrats roll over on their hard-core public option stance. Everybody will think they are "winnners" when in fact they are nothing more than a bunch of losers - well, the American people will be the losers. There does need to be health care reform in this country. The way to do that is for both parties to come together, write decent laws concerning it, debate it openly on national tv and then put it on the national ballot and let the people decide if it's what they really want. Americans will go for something that makes sense and that can be paid for. They won't however, be run over again like the TARP Funds, the Stimulus Package, Bank bailouts and government takeover of the auto industry. Those tactics aren't going to work this time.

 

[BasicGreatGuy]

In my opinion, too many people are playing partisan football with the governance of this Republic. I don't see that mindset and action as anything positive. In my opinion, it makes a mockery of what the governance of this Republic is truly all about.

 

[MaggieMae]

This Health Care Reform Bill is going to be the defining element of the Obama Presidency. If he fails to get it passed, he will go down in flames - which he just might regardless depending on what the economy does as a result of the huge stimulus money being spent with little or no meaningful results. The cost of the Health Care Reform bill is going to come heavily into play because I think most Americans don't want to spend this kind of money at a time when the economy is not anything near "good". How Obama comes up with the money to pay for it will be a key to the bill's passage. Now, if this Health Care Reform bill gets passed with the current publics very low opinion of it, there will be a large number of unemployed Democrat Congressmembers come the next election. The House most likely will change over to Republican control and that will also be Obama's defining moment. The absolute best thing he could do, politically, is to call a TIME OUT, and carry this ball into the locker room to have it well-discussed and come back out to the field with a better game plan. Under it's current form, economic situation of the nation, public opinion considered, and Congressional support, I think Obama looses the game 21 - 20 in overtime.

On the contrary, if no health care initiative gets passed after all this, costs from the private sector will continue to rise and the same grumbling will occur next year and beyond. What will happen is more and more people looking at people like you and saying we told you so...

Clinton took a hammering in the early months of his first term over health care, and the polls (like Obama) had everyone predicting Clinton's early demise, but he went on to do other controversial things, ultimately leaving office with an approval rating of over 60% in spite of the Lewinsky scandal.

Nothing is as predictable as you would like. All you can do is wish. Frankly, I might half-way agree with you if the Republicans had a decent candidate that could bring the party back together. But it's fractured, has no platform, and needs at least another full election cycle before the GOP earns back its credibility.

I believe this is the right time in history for a very good, honorable, and strong leader to emerge as an Independent candidate for President. The right person could win the next Presidential election. Don't have a clue as to who this superman or superwoman might be because nobody comes to mind that I think could pull this off. However, I do feel that people are tired of both of the major political parties and all of their backbiting, in-fighting and inability to work together for the overall good of the American citizens. Both parties are more interested in staying in power than for doing what the public sent them to Washington to do. Many have been in Congress for so long that they have become political entities in their own right. It's time to take the broom out and clean house in Congress.

I think a closer look at what the Health Care Reform bill is going to look like when it gets passed is a very watered down, basically worthless piece of legislation that really isn't worth the paper it's written on. The Democrats will be able to jump up and down and say how successful they were and in time sneak all the crap the American public doesn't really want into a law later down the road. The Republicans will be able to say that they saved the day in making the Democrats roll over on their hard-core public option stance. Everybody will think they are "winnners" when in fact they are nothing more than a bunch of losers - well, the American people will be the losers. There does need to be health care reform in this country. The way to do that is for both parties to come together, write decent laws concerning it, debate it openly on national tv and then put it on the national ballot and let the people decide if it's what they really want. Americans will go for something that makes sense and that can be paid for. They won't however, be run over again like the TARP Funds, the Stimulus Package, Bank bailouts and government takeover of the auto industry. Those tactics aren't going to work this time.

I also think the time is ripe for strong independent candidates. The problem, however, is funding for a legitimate campaign. When the two parties dominate the news cycle and independents can't afford to put their faces out there so the American people know what platforms they offer and get to know such persons personally in order to identify with him or her, independent candidates (especially presidential) will once again become insignificant. Also, someone with money needs to start organizing a viable, formal Independent Committee (a headquarters) which will be the focal point for administration, rallies, donations, etc. Some folks tried to do that in 2007 with "Unity08" on the internet alone, but it fizzled for, you guessed it, lack of donations. Maybe those same people will start it up again with "Unity2012" or something similar.

A good thread starter would be WHO DO YOU THINK WOULD BE GOOD CANDIDATES TO RUN ON AN INDEPENDENT PLATFORM? (Or a shortened version thereof.) People could weigh in with anybody, give a brief biography and state their reasons why such a person(s) is attractive in lieu of a Democrat or Republican. It could even be a businessman or woman, or an existing lawmaker either at the state or federal level. I nominate YOU to start the thread!