Why Evolution?

[JBeukema]

Our professor was rather distraught, as he had become quite comfortable teaching the old paradigm.

Sounds like a shitty teacher...

 

[JBeukema]

Teachers, when it comes to higher education, should not be mere referrers of information but guides through the process of learning. Teachers should strive to produce students who outshine the teacher and should never cease being students themselves.

 

[eagleseven]

Our professor was rather distraught, as he had become quite comfortable teaching the old paradigm.

Sounds like a shitty teacher...

Truth be told, he was far more interested in studying cancerous tumor formation in poisoned frogs, than in teaching us...

It's a problem at most research universities...the professors are far more interested (and rewarded) for their research, than for teaching students. If you really want to learn, you need to work under them, in their lab.

 

[JBeukema]

I suppose there's not much that can be done about that

 

[eagleseven]

I suppose there's not much that can be done about that

I suppose there are more pressing issues our nation needs to deal with, yeah.

 

[Dr Gregg]

Sounds like you mean something more than artificial intelligence, eagleseven. More than a bionic man? More than gene engineering? Can they make a gene from non-live, inert matter now? (Or soon?)

Holy fuck.

Can I buy stock in you?

Make a gene? We can make a whole GENOME! (in fact, we create artificial plasmids routinely)

Just two years ago, a team succeeded in creating a functional M genitalium genome out of a mix of inanimate nucleotides and proteins from a bottle. M Genitalium is one of the simplest bacteria known to man, with a very tiny genome (comparable to viruses).

It is not a true synthetic organism, however, as they just copied a genome that already exists in living bacteria.

We will see 100% synthetic lifeforms in our lifetime, and it is going to be sooner rather than later.

Was watching something on the electric eel and how much energy it produces, and made me wonder if they can understand how they produce so much electricity, whether that can be utilized for a new source of energy. There may very well be biological sources of energy, as self renewable as you can get. I know many are working on manipulating orgnanisms to be able to breakdown the currently unusable parts of plants like corn.

Our technology is growing so fast, its unreal, and basically will continue to grow exponentially. THe technological advances in molecular biology in the 11 years I've been in the field is astounding

 

[Old Rocks]

As biological sciences learn to create the very essence of life, from the mechanical side, those in nano tech are learning to replicate biological processes mechanicaly at biological scales. I think that by 2030, we will see a convergance of these sciences that will create a whole new paradigm in every aspect of our lives. From really cleaning up the environment to an indefinate lifespan, the possibilities are quite beyond what we can imagine.

This reminds me about what I was reading in science fiction the the '50s concerning computers. Reality is so much greater and better than what was imagined that it looks as if the writers lacked any kind of imagination. Yet their projections were considered radical at the time.

 

[antagon]

thats all fascinating.

to hit on the OP, i think that evolution has become a topic of polarity between religious fundamentalists and just about everyone else.

while the science is not debated, but rather explored for its guidance in the scientific community, i for one, a semi-layman on the topic, have taken the position of guarding the back door. ive got a decade-old BSc in biology, but am essentially a salesman and a handyman, also a dormant chem-e. my knowledge could suffice for the defense of the theory itself, IMHO, but im not making breakthroughs at the cutting edge.

nipping at the heels of the future are religious fundamentalists hoping to strong arm science with politics. their biggest fail is attempting to wield a lil'bit of science to credit themselves. i think they'd be better off making arguments about fire and brimstone, which are funny, but more genuine than the science pretenses. equally there's some folks and publications which espouse evolution in a way that makes it just as incredible. i try to douse personifications of evolution and misuse of the concepts of theory and hypothesis, among the pet-peeves ive got against the evolution fan-club.

this is an issue that cuts to the core of biology education, which 10y/os could debate as they are introduced to the concepts of nature in depth. in light of what the future holds, the battle at the back door plays a big part in the sustainability of what happens within the cores of science acadaemia. the politics, like stem-cell policy, direct traffic for researchers, and among other pseudo lobbying that plays out at spots like this, science should be represented in this debate.

 

[Montrovant]

What puzzles me is that these people persist, but not in other fields. You do not see lay persons arguing the merits of string theory, or dark matter, or polymer synthesis, or computational theory. These topics require just as much background as evolutionary biology, in order to discuss honestly, yet laypersons intrinsically realize this.

I have, in fact, argued about string theory and possibly dark matter (that may have been more discussion than argument) on multiple occasions, and I am certainly a layperson To be fair, however, such argument took place with another layperson, and we both knew that there was a ton we didn't know. So it's quite possible, even likely, that we argued about things that were incorrect interpretations or details in the first place.

I think I am more prone to argument than the average person, however, or perhaps more willing to extend the arguments. And I also often find these kinds of scientific theories, which seem to be almost science-fiction, interesting when someone can explain them to me in layman's terms.

 

[sealybobo]

I was thinking today, of an unusual phenomenon in biology...the tendency for lay persons to consider themselves qualified to seriously argue for or against theories in biology.

In almost every case where this occurs, grossly incorrect assumptions are made and the field of genetics is blatantly ignored. For people unacquainted with these topics, lay arguments seem plausible, but to those with in-depth knowledge of the field, the absurdity of these claims is painfully apparent.

What puzzles me is that these people persist, but not in other fields. You do not see lay persons arguing the merits of string theory, or dark matter, or polymer synthesis, or computational theory. These topics require just as much background as evolutionary biology, in order to discuss honestly, yet laypersons intrinsically realize this.

What is so special about evolution, that every average joe imagines himself a master of the topic? Is it the fact that it goes to the very core of what it means to be human? Or is it simply because it blatantly disregards the teachings of half-a-dozen religions?

---

What makes me consider this topic now? Today, we were discussing techniques for building artificial lifeforms, and how we can utilize evolutionary mechanisms to rapidly optimize our designs, simplifying the process.

This would not be possible, if evolution was false. Yet, here we are, in 2010, building organisms through evolution. Playing "god," so to speak.


While lay people are busy convincing themselves that evolution is an atheist lie, we are using those very principles to do the once unimaginable...making life from non-life.

Here is why evolution must be true. Where did all the land creatures come from? If you can explain that without evolution I would like you to tell me how the first cats, donkee, turtles, bear chicken and birds got here

 

[Divine Wind]

....What puzzles me is that these people persist, but not in other fields. You do not see lay persons arguing the merits of string theory, or dark matter, or polymer synthesis, or computational theory. These topics require just as much background as evolutionary biology, in order to discuss honestly, yet laypersons intrinsically realize this......

......While lay people are busy convincing themselves that evolution is an atheist lie, we are using those very principles to do the once unimaginable...making life from non-life.

1) "Lay people" argue on all sorts of topics without direct experience or education. Have you discussed military issues without an extensive career or education in military science? Politics without education or experience in political science? Any other topic outside of your own education and/or experience?

2) It's a very broad brush to say all lay people think evolution is "an atheist lie". Some religious fundamentalists may believe the world is only 6000 years old, but many more accept evolution. What evidence do you have to back up your point of view?

4 in 10 Americans Believe God Created Earth 10,000 Years Ago
Four in 10 Americans believe God created the Earth and anatomically modern humans, less than 10,000 years ago, according to a new Gallup poll.

About half of Americans believe humans evolved over millions of years, with most of those people saying that God guided the process. Religious, less educated, and older respondents were likelier to espouse a young Earth creationist view — that life was created some 6,000 to 10,000 years ago — according to the poll.

Though the percentage of people who believe in creationism has changed little over the decades, the percentage of people who believe humans evolved without God has more than doubled, and the percentage who believe in God-guided evolution has decreased.


FWIW, I believe the data above can be correlated with this:

 

[Cellblock2429]

....What puzzles me is that these people persist, but not in other fields. You do not see lay persons arguing the merits of string theory, or dark matter, or polymer synthesis, or computational theory. These topics require just as much background as evolutionary biology, in order to discuss honestly, yet laypersons intrinsically realize this......

......While lay people are busy convincing themselves that evolution is an atheist lie, we are using those very principles to do the once unimaginable...making life from non-life.

1) "Lay people" argue on all sorts of topics without direct experience or education. Have you discussed military issues without an extensive career or education in military science? Politics without education or experience in political science? Any other topic outside of your own education and/or experience?

2) It's a very broad brush to say all lay people think evolution is "an atheist lie". Some religious fundamentalists may believe the world is only 6000 years old, but many more accept evolution. What evidence do you have to back up your point of view?

4 in 10 Americans Believe God Created Earth 10,000 Years Ago
Four in 10 Americans believe God created the Earth and anatomically modern humans, less than 10,000 years ago, according to a new Gallup poll.

About half of Americans believe humans evolved over millions of years, with most of those people saying that God guided the process. Religious, less educated, and older respondents were likelier to espouse a young Earth creationist view — that life was created some 6,000 to 10,000 years ago — according to the poll.

Though the percentage of people who believe in creationism has changed little over the decades, the percentage of people who believe humans evolved without God has more than doubled, and the percentage who believe in God-guided evolution has decreased.


FWIW, I believe the data above can be correlated with this:

As a Catholic, I was taught that Creationism and Evolution co exist. Since there are no written records of the beginning of time who is to say God didn't create a path for us to evolve? Fundamental Christians take the Bible literally. Other Christians like me recognize the Bible was written for people who were illiterate and need parables to understand things.

 

[Abishai100]

Deformity Drills


Geneticists try to understand the 'biology of behavior' and the 'chemistry of the evolved human brain/mind,' so every layperson wants to comment and say things like, "I am master of my fate, not my genes!"

However, molecular genetics has provided us key insights into medicine and inherited maladies (e.g., congenital deafness) as well as acquired ones (e.g., lung cancer).

Organic creatures are an aggregate of cells which are regulated by various central processes. Perhaps thinking about pathology (e.g., brain damage, amnesia, etc.) will make studies about cellular degeneration and regeneration clearer, and if laymen continue to wax lyrical/philosophical about evolution, they will at least do so with a more informed understanding of the hard science behind organic development.


Advances in Molecular Genetics - Deafness (NIH)

Advances in Molecular Genetics - Heart Disease (Circulation Journal)

 

[Divine Wind]

....What puzzles me is that these people persist, but not in other fields. You do not see lay persons arguing the merits of string theory, or dark matter, or polymer synthesis, or computational theory. These topics require just as much background as evolutionary biology, in order to discuss honestly, yet laypersons intrinsically realize this......

......While lay people are busy convincing themselves that evolution is an atheist lie, we are using those very principles to do the once unimaginable...making life from non-life.

1) "Lay people" argue on all sorts of topics without direct experience or education. Have you discussed military issues without an extensive career or education in military science? Politics without education or experience in political science? Any other topic outside of your own education and/or experience?

2) It's a very broad brush to say all lay people think evolution is "an atheist lie". Some religious fundamentalists may believe the world is only 6000 years old, but many more accept evolution. What evidence do you have to back up your point of view?

4 in 10 Americans Believe God Created Earth 10,000 Years Ago
Four in 10 Americans believe God created the Earth and anatomically modern humans, less than 10,000 years ago, according to a new Gallup poll.

About half of Americans believe humans evolved over millions of years, with most of those people saying that God guided the process. Religious, less educated, and older respondents were likelier to espouse a young Earth creationist view — that life was created some 6,000 to 10,000 years ago — according to the poll.

Though the percentage of people who believe in creationism has changed little over the decades, the percentage of people who believe humans evolved without God has more than doubled, and the percentage who believe in God-guided evolution has decreased.


FWIW, I believe the data above can be correlated with this:

As a Catholic, I was taught that Creationism and Evolution co exist. Since there are no written records of the beginning of time who is to say God didn't create a path for us to evolve? Fundamental Christians take the Bible literally. Other Christians like me recognize the Bible was written for people who were illiterate and need parables to understand things.

Agreed. As previously shown, many Christians don't take the Bible literally, yet there are "fundamentalist" Atheists who want to say all Christians do take it literally or they are not Christians. This is just their way of demeaning those with faith.

 

[Montrovant]

....What puzzles me is that these people persist, but not in other fields. You do not see lay persons arguing the merits of string theory, or dark matter, or polymer synthesis, or computational theory. These topics require just as much background as evolutionary biology, in order to discuss honestly, yet laypersons intrinsically realize this......

......While lay people are busy convincing themselves that evolution is an atheist lie, we are using those very principles to do the once unimaginable...making life from non-life.

1) "Lay people" argue on all sorts of topics without direct experience or education. Have you discussed military issues without an extensive career or education in military science? Politics without education or experience in political science? Any other topic outside of your own education and/or experience?

2) It's a very broad brush to say all lay people think evolution is "an atheist lie". Some religious fundamentalists may believe the world is only 6000 years old, but many more accept evolution. What evidence do you have to back up your point of view?

4 in 10 Americans Believe God Created Earth 10,000 Years Ago
Four in 10 Americans believe God created the Earth and anatomically modern humans, less than 10,000 years ago, according to a new Gallup poll.

About half of Americans believe humans evolved over millions of years, with most of those people saying that God guided the process. Religious, less educated, and older respondents were likelier to espouse a young Earth creationist view — that life was created some 6,000 to 10,000 years ago — according to the poll.

Though the percentage of people who believe in creationism has changed little over the decades, the percentage of people who believe humans evolved without God has more than doubled, and the percentage who believe in God-guided evolution has decreased.


FWIW, I believe the data above can be correlated with this:

As a Catholic, I was taught that Creationism and Evolution co exist. Since there are no written records of the beginning of time who is to say God didn't create a path for us to evolve? Fundamental Christians take the Bible literally. Other Christians like me recognize the Bible was written for people who were illiterate and need parables to understand things.

Agreed. As previously shown, many Christians don't take the Bible literally, yet there are "fundamentalist" Atheists who want to say all Christians do take it literally or they are not Christians. This is just their way of demeaning those with faith.

I've seen Christians claim that other Christians are not "real" Christians many times. Are they also demeaning those with faith?

 

[Divine Wind]

I've seen Christians claim that other Christians are not "real" Christians many times. Are they also demeaning those with faith?

IMO they are. How many "real" Christians claimed Catholics or Mormons aren't really Christian? Usually it's the "fundamentalists" such as Evangelicals or Southern Baptists who take this stance. Most Christians I've known believe it's between a person and God and no one else.

 

[yiostheoy]

I was thinking today, of an unusual phenomenon in biology...the tendency for lay persons to consider themselves qualified to seriously argue for or against theories in biology.

In almost every case where this occurs, grossly incorrect assumptions are made and the field of genetics is blatantly ignored. For people unacquainted with these topics, lay arguments seem plausible, but to those with in-depth knowledge of the field, the absurdity of these claims is painfully apparent.

What puzzles me is that these people persist, but not in other fields. You do not see lay persons arguing the merits of string theory, or dark matter, or polymer synthesis, or computational theory. These topics require just as much background as evolutionary biology, in order to discuss honestly, yet laypersons intrinsically realize this.

What is so special about evolution, that every average joe imagines himself a master of the topic? Is it the fact that it goes to the very core of what it means to be human? Or is it simply because it blatantly disregards the teachings of half-a-dozen religions?

---

What makes me consider this topic now? Today, we were discussing techniques for building artificial lifeforms, and how we can utilize evolutionary mechanisms to rapidly optimize our designs, simplifying the process.

This would not be possible, if evolution was false. Yet, here we are, in 2010, building organisms through evolution. Playing "god," so to speak.


While lay people are busy convincing themselves that evolution is an atheist lie, we are using those very principles to do the once unimaginable...making life from non-life.

Here is why evolution must be true. Where did all the land creatures come from? If you can explain that without evolution I would like you to tell me how the first cats, donkee, turtles, bear chicken and birds got here

CATS !!!

YAY CATS !!!

I love my dear kitty ... .

You brought this thread back from the dead and cold.

 

[yiostheoy]

I've seen Christians claim that other Christians are not "real" Christians many times. Are they also demeaning those with faith?

IMO they are. How many "real" Christians claimed Catholics or Mormons aren't really Christian? Usually it's the "fundamentalists" such as Evangelicals or Southern Baptists who take this stance. Most Christians I've known believe it's between a person and God and no one else.

I lump all Protestants together as Protestants and just call them Protestants.

It's like calling a spade a spade.

 

[yiostheoy]

....What puzzles me is that these people persist, but not in other fields. You do not see lay persons arguing the merits of string theory, or dark matter, or polymer synthesis, or computational theory. These topics require just as much background as evolutionary biology, in order to discuss honestly, yet laypersons intrinsically realize this......

......While lay people are busy convincing themselves that evolution is an atheist lie, we are using those very principles to do the once unimaginable...making life from non-life.

1) "Lay people" argue on all sorts of topics without direct experience or education. Have you discussed military issues without an extensive career or education in military science? Politics without education or experience in political science? Any other topic outside of your own education and/or experience?

2) It's a very broad brush to say all lay people think evolution is "an atheist lie". Some religious fundamentalists may believe the world is only 6000 years old, but many more accept evolution. What evidence do you have to back up your point of view?

4 in 10 Americans Believe God Created Earth 10,000 Years Ago
Four in 10 Americans believe God created the Earth and anatomically modern humans, less than 10,000 years ago, according to a new Gallup poll.

About half of Americans believe humans evolved over millions of years, with most of those people saying that God guided the process. Religious, less educated, and older respondents were likelier to espouse a young Earth creationist view — that life was created some 6,000 to 10,000 years ago — according to the poll.

Though the percentage of people who believe in creationism has changed little over the decades, the percentage of people who believe humans evolved without God has more than doubled, and the percentage who believe in God-guided evolution has decreased.


FWIW, I believe the data above can be correlated with this:

As a Catholic, I was taught that Creationism and Evolution co exist. Since there are no written records of the beginning of time who is to say God didn't create a path for us to evolve? Fundamental Christians take the Bible literally. Other Christians like me recognize the Bible was written for people who were illiterate and need parables to understand things.

Agreed. As previously shown, many Christians don't take the Bible literally, yet there are "fundamentalist" Atheists who want to say all Christians do take it literally or they are not Christians. This is just their way of demeaning those with faith.

I've seen Christians claim that other Christians are not "real" Christians many times. Are they also demeaning those with faith?

I think the most real "Christians" are the Eastern Orthodox. They are descendant from the congregations of St. Paul.

Of course the Roman Catholic Church is the most powerful today.

There are more Catholics than any other "Christian" group.

 

[yiostheoy]

Agreed. As previously shown, many Christians don't take the Bible literally, yet there are "fundamentalist" Atheists who want to say all Christians do take it literally or they are not Christians. This is just their way of demeaning those with faith.

Frontline's "From Jesus To Christ" explained that the Bible cannot be taken literally because there are so many inconsistencies in it.