Why don't "libertarians" support the libertarian candidate?

[konradv]

You're misinterpreting my thesis. We'd be turning the process over to the people.

I agree actually. It should be up to the people to decide which campaigns they want to finance.

Then don't cry, if you never get a candidate you like. The present system is rigged and the people are left out.

 

[PredFan]

I'm don't concider it selling out at all. My beliefs are unchanged.

But they remain silent. In one of the most important way we can express our opinions on government, you misleadingly support a candidate who doesn't represent your views. That doesn't lead to the change we seek. It leads away from it.

The presidential election is not the only election. Gary Johnson is not the only Libertarian running for public office. My vote is very far from silent. I only support Romney because he isn't Obama. Obama is the opposite of everything that Libertarians believe. He must go. I am not willing to throw the baby out with the bathwater.

 

[PredFan]

I stand corrected. I am in fact on the defensive.

It is true that saying Romney is better is a stretch, but Romney will do the one thing that Obama won't, Romney will put conservatives on the SCOTUS, Obama will put liberals. That alone is worthy of my vote.

Really?

You mean like O'Connor, Kennedy and Souter?

Never mind.

What I mean is UNLIKE Sotomeyor.

 

[mudwhistle]

Just as I thought, looks like there aren't any real Libertarians on this board.

Oh, but in our hearts, we are. But people like myself had to vote for the most conservative candidate we feel can beat Obama. That's it. The country is not ready for radical change, such as with a true Libertarian....Maybe in a few years, depending upon how well "hopeful" president-elect Mitt Romney does, with his cost cutting and job creating policies.

Excuses. I'll be voting Johnson, and I really don't care that he has no chance the win. I think if you don't vote for who you think is the best person to be president-that that's the real way to waste your vote. If anybody's a "real" Libertarian-they'd vote for somebody who has Libertarian beliefs-and not Romney.

The best person isn't running.

Ether way, you're pissing your vote away if the one you vote for has no chance.

 

[dblack]

Ether way, you're pissing your vote away if the one you vote for has no chance.

This flat out is not true. It's the lie that paralyzes democracy.

 

[dblack]

You're misinterpreting my thesis. We'd be turning the process over to the people.

I agree actually. It should be up to the people to decide which campaigns they want to finance.

Then don't cry, if you never get a candidate you like. The present system is rigged and the people are left out.

Agreed. But your proposal only re-rigs it in a way that will be easier to corrupt.

 

[bayoubill]

I've noticed that on this board that those who say they are Libertarian don't seem to support the Libertarian candidate, Gary Johnson. Watching him on Jon Stewart reminded me to ask why. It also reminded me that would make a much better candidate than the Crazy Uncle of the Republican Party.

It should be obvious but if you don't support him, there's not much chance he'll get anywhere close to winning. Of course, there's no chance he'll win if you do support him but why whine that you want a third party and then not actually support the candidate?

Many of us do vote Libertarian. I haven't voted Democrat or Republican since 1980 (I fell for Reagan's bullshit the first time).

I suspect the reason why so many libertarian leaning voters vote Republican or Democrat instead is the same reason so many progressives do likewise. They fall for the 'lesser-of-two-evils' con game.

Upon reaching voting age in 1972, I voted for the GOP presidential candidate 'cause the Dem candidate seemed to have his head up his ass... voted for the 1976 GOP candidate for similar reasons...

subsequently, I discovered the Libertarian Party, and actively supported and voted for the LP presidential candidates from 1980 through 2000...

but after all the initial high hopes for the LP making a difference, it got to where it felt like the electorate was paying less and less attention to the LP and its message...

in 2004, I voted for Kerry to more forcefully register my displeasure with GWB for his Iraq misadventure...

in 2008, I voted for McCain because he didn't seem to have his head nearly as far up his ass as Obama did... and, as I recall, the LP candidate was Bob Barr, of all people...

this time around, I think I may well just sit out the election...

but if I happened to live in a battleground state (which I don't), I'd vote for Romney if only for Second Amendment concerns...

 

[mudwhistle]

Ether way, you're pissing your vote away if the one you vote for has no chance.

This flat out is not true. It's the lie that paralyzes democracy.

It's as true as the day is long.

Democracy is essentially mob rule. The majority makes all the rules in a Democracy. Only in a Republic is everyone truly represented.

I pick the candidate that most closely resembles my views and has a better than a snowball's chance in hell of winning. Johnson wouldn't beat anyone running anyone.

 

[Oddball]

Ether way, you're pissing your vote away if the one you vote for has no chance.

This flat out is not true. It's the lie that paralyzes democracy.

It's as true as the day is long.

Democracy is essentially mob rule. The majority makes all the rules in a Democracy. Only in a Republic is everyone truly represented.

I pick the candidate that most closely resembles my views and has a better than a snowball's chance in hell of winning. Johnson wouldn't beat anyone running anyone.

Your one vote isn't going to change anything.

Better to cast it for an honest difference over a shade of gray who allegedly has "a chance to win", as determined by the political class and their media toadies.

 

[kaz]

I've noticed that on this board that those who say they are Libertarian don't seem to support the Libertarian candidate, Gary Johnson. Watching him on Jon Stewart reminded me to ask why. It also reminded me that would make a much better candidate than the Crazy Uncle of the Republican Party.

It should be obvious but if you don't support him, there's not much chance he'll get anywhere close to winning. Of course, there's no chance he'll win if you do support him but why whine that you want a third party and then not actually support the candidate?

As for me, I have voted for the Libertarian candidate on and off. It depends on the candidate and other issues. I last voted Republican in 1988 for HW. It was HW that was the straw that made me leave the party. I voted for Perot in 1992 because I wanted a good third party splash and got one. I liked Harry Browne and voted for him a couple of times. I like Barr personally for holding Clinton accountable for the crimes he committed, but I didn't think he was really a libertarian so I didn't vote for him.

So there isn't a single answer to your question. As for this election. I think Romney sucks but I won't blink when I vote for him because Obama is a Marxist. I think any libertarian who would leave a Marxist in the White House and not for for Romney to remove him has issues.

 

[bayoubill]

I've noticed that on this board that those who say they are Libertarian don't seem to support the Libertarian candidate, Gary Johnson. Watching him on Jon Stewart reminded me to ask why. It also reminded me that would make a much better candidate than the Crazy Uncle of the Republican Party.

It should be obvious but if you don't support him, there's not much chance he'll get anywhere close to winning. Of course, there's no chance he'll win if you do support him but why whine that you want a third party and then not actually support the candidate?

As for me, I have voted for the Libertarian candidate on and off. It depends on the candidate and other issues. I last voted Republican in 1988 for HW. It was HW that was the straw that made me leave the party. I voted for Perot in 1992 because I wanted a good third party splash and got one. I liked Harry Browne and voted for him a couple of times. I like Barr personally for holding Clinton accountable for the crimes he committed, but I didn't think he was really a libertarian so I didn't vote for him.

So there isn't a single answer to your question. As for this election. I think Romney sucks but I won't blink when I vote for him because Obama is a Marxist. I think any libertarian who would leave a Marxist in the White House and not for for Romney to remove him has issues.

I've gotten to be more pragmatic as I've grown older...

in that sense, I would encourage persons who do not live in a battleground state to vote for the candidate who most closely represents their point of view, regardless of whether that candidate has a chance of winning the election...

and, for those folks who do live in a battleground state, I would encourage you to hold your nose and vote for Romney...

 

[kaz]

I've noticed that on this board that those who say they are Libertarian don't seem to support the Libertarian candidate, Gary Johnson. Watching him on Jon Stewart reminded me to ask why. It also reminded me that would make a much better candidate than the Crazy Uncle of the Republican Party.

It should be obvious but if you don't support him, there's not much chance he'll get anywhere close to winning. Of course, there's no chance he'll win if you do support him but why whine that you want a third party and then not actually support the candidate?

As for me, I have voted for the Libertarian candidate on and off. It depends on the candidate and other issues. I last voted Republican in 1988 for HW. It was HW that was the straw that made me leave the party. I voted for Perot in 1992 because I wanted a good third party splash and got one. I liked Harry Browne and voted for him a couple of times. I like Barr personally for holding Clinton accountable for the crimes he committed, but I didn't think he was really a libertarian so I didn't vote for him.

So there isn't a single answer to your question. As for this election. I think Romney sucks but I won't blink when I vote for him because Obama is a Marxist. I think any libertarian who would leave a Marxist in the White House and not for for Romney to remove him has issues.

I've gotten to be more pragmatic as I've grown older...

in that sense, I would encourage persons who do not live in a battleground state to vote for the candidate who most closely represents their point of view, regardless of whether that candidate has a chance of winning the election...

and, for those folks who do live in a battleground state, I would encourage you to hold your nose and vote for Romney...

That's reasonable, but I live in North Carolina.

 

[dblack]

I've noticed that on this board that those who say they are Libertarian don't seem to support the Libertarian candidate, Gary Johnson. Watching him on Jon Stewart reminded me to ask why. It also reminded me that would make a much better candidate than the Crazy Uncle of the Republican Party.

It should be obvious but if you don't support him, there's not much chance he'll get anywhere close to winning. Of course, there's no chance he'll win if you do support him but why whine that you want a third party and then not actually support the candidate?

As for me, I have voted for the Libertarian candidate on and off. It depends on the candidate and other issues. I last voted Republican in 1988 for HW. It was HW that was the straw that made me leave the party. I voted for Perot in 1992 because I wanted a good third party splash and got one. I liked Harry Browne and voted for him a couple of times. I like Barr personally for holding Clinton accountable for the crimes he committed, but I didn't think he was really a libertarian so I didn't vote for him.

So there isn't a single answer to your question. As for this election. I think Romney sucks but I won't blink when I vote for him because Obama is a Marxist. I think any libertarian who would leave a Marxist in the White House and not for for Romney to remove him has issues.

I've gotten to be more pragmatic as I've grown older...

in that sense, I would encourage persons who do not live in a battleground state to vote for the candidate who most closely represents their point of view, regardless of whether that candidate has a chance of winning the election...

and, for those folks who do live in a battleground state, I would encourage you to hold your nose and vote for Romney...

The way I see it, there are two strategies for promoting libertarian values. Either via a third party effort, or by steering one of the major parties toward the cause (ie, the RP revolution).

The thing is, those of you who support Ron Paul in the primaries, and the abandon the cause when it comes time to vote in the general are doing the movement a tremendous disservice. You're telling the party establishment that they can continue doing what they're doing, and you'll continue to play along. They'll never change if, in the end, we roll over and vote for their hand-picked stooges.

If we really want to change the Republican party, we've got to bite the bullet. We've got to make sure they understand that ignoring libertarian values will cost them. Otherwise, they'll never take our concerns seriously. We've got to stop being scared into voting for a candidate who sucks, merely because the 'other' candidate sucks a little more.

 

[PredFan]

Ether way, you're pissing your vote away if the one you vote for has no chance.

This flat out is not true. It's the lie that paralyzes democracy.

I've heard this response before, yet no one can expalin how it is so.

 

[dblack]

Ether way, you're pissing your vote away if the one you vote for has no chance.

This flat out is not true. It's the lie that paralyzes democracy.

I've heard this response before, yet no one can expalin how it is so.

I've explained it repeatedly. Voting is the way we express our preferences to our government. If we fail to express those preference honestly, democracy fails to give us the government we want. The idea that any vote cast for a candidate who doesn't win is 'wasted' is irrational and based on a fundamental misunderstanding of the point of voting in the first place.

 

[PredFan]

I vote for libertarian candidates whenever possible. I have voted for them in all local elections.

My philosophy is this: The Libertarian Party cannot grow from the top down. We need to grow the party from the bottom up. The more LP politicians there are, the more respect we will get. WE won't see a LP POTUS any time soon, but we are seeing more and more LP politicians. We ARE making progress.

In the meantime, we don't allow the country to fall completely into the hands of the progressives or there won't be a country left for the LP to gain a foothold in. Don't throw the baby out with the bathwater. Vote LP in all elections where they can win, especially in local elections then vote for the most conservative candidate who can win if no LP candidate is there.

 

[Oddball]

I vote for libertarian candidates whenever possible. I have voted for them in all local elections.

My philosophy is this: The Libertarian Party cannot grow from the top down. We need to grow the party from the bottom up. The more LP politicians there are, the more respect we will get. WE won't see a LP POTUS any time soon, but we are seeing more and more LP politicians. We ARE making progress.

In the meantime, we don't allow the country to fall completely into the hands of the progressives or there won't be a country left for the LP to gain a foothold in. Don't throw the baby out with the bathwater. Vote LP in all elections where they can win, especially in local elections then vote for the most conservative candidate who can win if no LP candidate is there.

When republicans nominate a Scott Walker on the national ticket, I'll be back.

Until then, they can suck a big fat chili dog.

 

[dblack]

I vote for libertarian candidates whenever possible. I have voted for them in all local elections.

My philosophy is this: The Libertarian Party cannot grow from the top down. We need to grow the party from the bottom up. The more LP politicians there are, the more respect we will get. WE won't see a LP POTUS any time soon, but we are seeing more and more LP politicians. We ARE making progress.

In the meantime, we don't allow the country to fall completely into the hands of the progressives or there won't be a country left for the LP to gain a foothold in. Don't throw the baby out with the bathwater. Vote LP in all elections where they can win, especially in local elections then vote for the most conservative candidate who can win if no LP candidate is there.

I guess you're just more of a conservative than a libertarian. And that's your right to be. But libertarians who aren't shouldn't vote for a conservative candidate just because a libertarian candidate isn't likely to win. When they do, it only makes it less likely that liberty will prevail, and encourages conservatives to disregard it when they govern.

 

[bayoubill]

for more'n 20 years, I was a hard-core trench fighter for libertarianism and LP candidates...

under the premise that, if you fight hard enough and long enough, the rest of the country will eventually come around to your way of thinking...

but I've come to accept that that's not gonna happen...

that the two-party system is entrenched... and, while they may be slightly swayed by outside popular forces, they're pretty-much gonna go their own way regardless of what we think...


we have an imperfect system that gives us imperfect choices...

and we've gotta make the best of it with the hand we've been dealt...

 

[bayoubill]

I vote for libertarian candidates whenever possible. I have voted for them in all local elections.

My philosophy is this: The Libertarian Party cannot grow from the top down. We need to grow the party from the bottom up. The more LP politicians there are, the more respect we will get. WE won't see a LP POTUS any time soon, but we are seeing more and more LP politicians. We ARE making progress.

In the meantime, we don't allow the country to fall completely into the hands of the progressives or there won't be a country left for the LP to gain a foothold in. Don't throw the baby out with the bathwater. Vote LP in all elections where they can win, especially in local elections then vote for the most conservative candidate who can win if no LP candidate is there.

When republicans nominate a Scott Walker on the national ticket, I'll be back.

Until then, they can suck a big fat chili dog.

mmmm... chili dogs...