Why do so many Americans support a neofascist? | The Coffee Klatch with Robert Reich

[martybegan]

Robert Reich is not a Marxist. He has never endorsed Soviet Communism. Claiming otherwise is an example of the Guilt by Association Fallacy and the Straw Man Fallacy.

Marxism covers all forms of socialism. Communism is just one of the more obvious flavors of that flawed philospohy.

 

[TruthNotBS]

Marxism covers all forms of socialism. Communism is just one of the more obvious flavors of that flawed philospohy.

We'll see how "flawed" it is as advanced automation and artificial intelligence replace wage labor. You will be begging for socialism.

 

[martybegan]

We'll see how "flawed" it is as advanced automation and artificial intelligence replace wage labor. You will be begging for socialism.

Never. It's a flawed theory that only gets worse each time it is applied.

 

[TruthNotBS]

Never. It's a flawed theory that only gets worse each time it is applied.

On the contrary, it's what allows capitalism to survive through all of its boom and bust cycles (socialism constantly bails out capitalism with public funds). Socialist principles always improve economies, even saving them from collapse. Shortly, it's going to save you, when you find yourself without a job, due to advanced automation and AI. Socialism is the inevitable, natural successor of capitalism.

Capitalists love socialism:

RANK	PARENT	SUBSIDY VALUE	NUMBER OF AWARDS
1	Boeing	$15,496,865,703	958
2	Intel	$8,421,707,656	135
3	Ford Motor	$7,742,056,086	703
4	General Motors	$7,524,714,800	792
5	Micron Technology	$6,790,131,915	21
6	Amazon.com	$5,823,705,434	460
7	Alcoa	$5,727,691,764	134
8	Cheniere Energy	$5,617,152,523	43
9	Foxconn Technology Group (Hon Hai Precision Industry Company)	$4,820,110,112	74
10	Venture Global LNG	$4,338,702,441	8
11	Texas Instruments	$4,286,328,869	69
12	Volkswagen	$3,977,630,513	217
13	Sempra Energy	$3,828,022,782	51
14	NRG Energy	$3,415,751,518	266
15	NextEra Energy	$3,008,691,129	116
16	Sasol	$2,836,049,845	72
17	Tesla Inc.	$2,829,855,494	114
18	Stellantis	$2,795,436,436	213
19	Walt Disney	$2,543,219,673	265
20	Nucor	$2,538,761,123	176
21	Iberdrola	$2,380,558,984	110
22	Rivian Automotive Inc.	$2,364,054,012	7
23	Hyundai Motor	$2,349,743,470	18
24	Oracle	$2,272,418,288	96
25	Shell PLC	$2,211,676,001	132
26	Mubadala Investment Company	$2,124,035,097	62
27	Nike	$2,104,917,829	153
28	Meta Platforms Inc.	$2,098,261,272	82
29	Toyota	$2,071,010,689	239
30	Alphabet Inc.	$2,054,325,527	125
31	Brookfield Corporation	$1,979,408,388	288
32	Paramount Global	$1,974,249,897	342
33	Comcast	$1,927,402,844	405
34	Exxon Mobil	$1,917,119,478	241
35	Samsung Electronics	$1,891,136,597	41
36	Apple Inc.	$1,845,004,670	63
37	Nissan	$1,842,814,165	98
38	Berkshire Hathaway	$1,830,986,253	1,200
39	Summit Power	$1,783,593,414	6
40	JPMorgan Chase	$1,740,972,699	1,151
41	Energy Transfer	$1,736,836,843	175
42	Cleveland-Cliffs	$1,705,497,604	129
43	Southern Company	$1,694,958,172	45
44	General Electric	$1,645,135,367	958
45	Vornado Realty Trust	$1,623,857,336	33
46	Duke Energy	$1,580,421,869	86
47	Wolfspeed Inc.	$1,563,595,610	64
48	General Atomics	$1,510,875,891	112
49	IBM Corp.	$1,497,901,697	368
50	Lockheed Martin	$1,462,674,082	325
51	OGE Energy	$1,427,570,182	15
52	SCS Energy	$1,419,011,796	5
53	Corning Inc.	$1,391,603,359	401
54	Panasonic	$1,384,147,584	61
55	Microsoft	$1,366,243,159	113
56	Sagamore Development	$1,320,000,000	2
57	Northrop Grumman	$1,284,014,883	285
58	Vingroup	$1,254,000,000	1
59	Continental AG	$1,244,875,478	111
60	RTX Corporation	$1,193,950,954	797
61	CF Industries	$1,134,394,215	131
62	Valero Energy	$1,053,812,692	207
63	Dow Inc.	$1,049,354,213	640
64	AES Corp.	$1,039,510,135	136
65	Air Products & Chemicals	$1,025,557,482	88
66	Exelon	$986,892,877	98
67	Pyramid Companies	$973,565,278	93
68	SK Holdings	$960,550,283	8
69	SkyWest	$944,296,654	339
70	Centene	$916,607,054	60
71	Mazda Toyota Manufacturing, U.S.A., Inc.	$900,000,000	1
72	Apollo Global Management	$897,750,089	594
73	Delta Air Lines	$871,485,833	13
74	Jefferies Financial Group	$871,137,335	16
75	SK Hynix	$866,700,000	2
76	Bayer	$852,475,226	217
77	Honda	$849,832,301	93
78	Shin-Etsu Chemical	$828,683,936	106
79	Enterprise Products Partners	$826,988,371	89
80	SunEdison	$817,425,725	115
81	Goldman Sachs	$800,873,386	253
82	Bank of America	$798,426,128	956
83	E.ON	$786,865,473	40
84	Warner Bros. Discovery Inc.	$786,835,708	219
85	EDF-Electricite de France	$774,590,441	36
86	Triple Five Worldwide	$748,000,000	4
87	EDP-Energias de Portugal	$733,674,868	14
88	Related Companies	$714,675,504	8
89	Koch Industries	$683,066,388	510
90	Caithness Energy	$672,688,888	30
91	Dell Technologies	$658,417,951	185
92	Wells Fargo	$657,333,216	542
93	FedEx	$647,035,546	633
94	Entergy	$638,533,387	235
95	OCI N.V.	$627,879,406	5
96	Eli Lilly	$623,326,368	79
97	Chevron Phillips Chemical	$619,839,444	20
98	Bedrock Detroit	$618,000,000	1
99	Dominion Energy	$615,436,089	79

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[martybegan]

On the contrary, it's what allows capitalism to survive through all of its boom and bust cycles (socialism constantly bails out capitalism with public funds). Socialist principles always improve economies, even saving them from collapse. Shortly, it's going to save you, when you find yourself without a job, due to advanced automation and AI. Socialism is the inevitable, natural successor of capitalism.

That's not socialism, that's welfarestateism.

Marxist is gonna Marx. You idiots have been SO FUCKING SUCCESSFUL in the past.

 

[TruthNotBS]

That's not socialism, that's welfarestateism.

Marxist is gonna Marx. You idiots have been SO FUCKING SUCCESSFUL in the past.

That's capitalism in need of public funds and assets to avoid collapsing. Without socialism or society intervening, capitalism can't function. Socialism is successful now throughout the world, including China, the second-largest economy in the world. Marxism isn't necessarily marketless, it can use markets and have capitalists, in the beginning stages of its development.

Technology determines when a socialist economy can eliminate the market. It requires advanced automation and that's exactly what we have today. Capitalism is toast, and socialism is going to replace it. Watch and learn.

 

[IDIOCRACY]

Heather and I take a deep dive into why so many Americans are supporting a neofascist for president. Trump is the consequence rather than the cause of several major problems that have worsened over four decades — problems that have undermined the American middle class, and caused a substantial number of people to become angry, anxious, and cynical.


-----------

Robert Reich’s talk lasts nearly 25 minutes. I advise you to listen to the whole thing, but if you do not, I will try to summarize it for you, Because I am an admirer of President Franklin Roosevelt and his New Deal I am in sympathy with Robert Reich, but I think he overlooks a few things.

His basic argument is that real after tax income for at least the lower two thirds of American earners has declined or stagnated since the Recession of 1964, and that Trump has been more successful in exploiting the anger this has generated than Democrats have been. At the same time, the rich have been getting richer.

This is true, but Reich does not discuss why the Democrats have not been able to exploit a problem that could be their strongest issue. Too casually he dismisses Trump’s scapegoating of immigrants and welfare mothers. In doing so he ignores the major mistake the Democrats have made since the Reagan administration, which began in 1981. The Democrats have continued to appeal to the kind of generosity that will only be popular during a time of growing and widespread prosperity.

After World War II, and for a long time afterwards, the average house cost twice the average yearly wages. That was a long time ago. Married couples, who cannot buy a house, who fear the next rent increase, and who despair of ever being able to afford college education for their children are unlikely to care about unmarried welfare mothers with illegitimate children.

Immigration is both a social issue and an economic issue. Working class and lower middle class whites rarely enjoy the sight and sound of foreign languages. They do not look forward to becoming a minority race in the United States.

Immigration is also an economic issue. By competing for jobs immigrants enable employers to hold the line on wages. By competing for places to live immigrants enable landlords to raise rents. Those who say, “Immigration is good for the economy,”

should be asked, “Whose economy?”

The New Deal appealed to the economic self interest of most Americans. Since the 1960’s the Democrats have appealed to disinterested compassion. That has been the mistake of the Democrats.

Fkn A Spinctor, you're desperate.

 

[martybegan]

That's capitalism in need of public funds and assets to avoid collapsing. Without socialism or society intervening, capitalism can't function. Socialism is successful now throughout the world, including China, the second-largest economy in the world. Marxism isn't necessarily marketless, it can use markets and have capitalists, in the beginning stages of its development.

Technology determines when a socialist economy can eliminate the market. It requires advanced automation and that's exactly what we have today. Capitalism is toast, and socialism is going to replace it. Watch and learn.

Government in general is not socialism.

China isn't socialist anymore, it's a capitalist autocracy.

Another Marxist religious zealot.

 

[marvin martian]

Heather and I take a deep dive into why so many Americans are supporting a neofascist for president. Trump is the consequence rather than the cause of several major problems that have worsened over four decades — problems that have undermined the American middle class, and caused a substantial number of people to become angry, anxious, and cynical.


-----------

Robert Reich’s talk lasts nearly 25 minutes. I advise you to listen to the whole thing, but if you do not, I will try to summarize it for you, Because I am an admirer of President Franklin Roosevelt and his New Deal I am in sympathy with Robert Reich, but I think he overlooks a few things.

His basic argument is that real after tax income for at least the lower two thirds of American earners has declined or stagnated since the Recession of 1964, and that Trump has been more successful in exploiting the anger this has generated than Democrats have been. At the same time, the rich have been getting richer.

This is true, but Reich does not discuss why the Democrats have not been able to exploit a problem that could be their strongest issue. Too casually he dismisses Trump’s scapegoating of immigrants and welfare mothers. In doing so he ignores the major mistake the Democrats have made since the Reagan administration, which began in 1981. The Democrats have continued to appeal to the kind of generosity that will only be popular during a time of growing and widespread prosperity.

After World War II, and for a long time afterwards, the average house cost twice the average yearly wages. That was a long time ago. Married couples, who cannot buy a house, who fear the next rent increase, and who despair of ever being able to afford college education for their children are unlikely to care about unmarried welfare mothers with illegitimate children.

Immigration is both a social issue and an economic issue. Working class and lower middle class whites rarely enjoy the sight and sound of foreign languages. They do not look forward to becoming a minority race in the United States.

Immigration is also an economic issue. By competing for jobs immigrants enable employers to hold the line on wages. By competing for places to live immigrants enable landlords to raise rents. Those who say, “Immigration is good for the economy,”

should be asked, “Whose economy?”

The New Deal appealed to the economic self interest of most Americans. Since the 1960’s the Democrats have appealed to disinterested compassion. That has been the mistake of the Democrats.

Never has a name been more appropriate than Robert REICH.

 

[Hector12]

The corrupt capitalist controlled politicians of Eastern Europe after the fall of the USSR, raped the resources of the nations they were leading, selling off the people's assets for pennies on the dollar. NATO was part of the strategy, to enrich not just the American military-industrial complex but thousands of elites in Eastern Europe. It's laughable when you claim that Russia was going to invade Eastern Europe after the collapse of the USSR. Russia was being raped until Putin arrived and implemented some socialist principles in the Russian economy.

No serious analyst would ever assert that Putin was planning to invade Eastern Europe and that's why those countries joined NATO.

The former Warsaw Pact countries that joined NATO, couldn't have done anything worse, to avoid being invaded or annihilated by Russia. Joining NATO undermined their safety, by forcing Russia to put them all on a nuclear target list and see them as an enemy. NATO only serves to destabilize the region and poke the bear for profits and control over Russia's vast resources. American imperialists would love to see Russia split into several divided republics that they can exploit and control.

You continue to ignore a lot of what I presented in my first post to you on this issue. Believe whatever imperialist nonsense toots your horn. BRICS is now ascending in the world geopolitical and economic stage, and will sooner than later completely neutralize the West's ability to terrorize countries with their sanctions and warmongering.

A lot of what you said was speculative. You said that if Mexico was an ally of Russia we would invade Mexico.

 

[TruthNotBS]

Government in general is not socialism.

China isn't socialist anymore, it's a capitalist autocracy.

Another Marxist religious zealot.

Government in general is not socialism.

Government using public funds to bailout your beloved capitalist masters is socialism. Capitalism makes the profits private and the losses public. Socialism is constantly saving capitalism. You right-wingers always accuse American Democrats of being "commies", when they rely on a government program to serve the public. You're constantly accusing Dems of being socialists, because they want government to do more. However, when the government saves the economy, with public funds, you're like "Oh no no no, that's not socialism". LOL, you're such a pathetic hypocrite.

China isn't socialist anymore, it's a capitalist autocracy.

The Chinese people through their government has extensive ownership over the major centers of economic power. The industries that are vital to China's national infrastructure are at least partially owned by the public. More, the Chinese economy is centrally planned, If we had the same level of government central planning of the economy here in the United States you Republican conservatives would have a fucking heart attack, shouting "Communism! Communism!"..Again, you're hypocrites. Two faces, double standard, completely inconsistent.

Advanced automation and artificial intelligence is going to eliminate wage labor within the next ten years. Estimates are now even more extraordinary than before, due to how quickly artificial intelligence and robotics are advancing. Now genius, how do you propose your capitalist masters make a profit if no one is earning a wage? Are you aware that capitalism relies on wages? Without wages or wage labor, there's no capitalism because there's no paying consumer or market. You;'re the fucking idiot.

Another Marxist religious zealot.

Another brainwashed working-class shithead defending his capitalist masters and slavery.

 

[martybegan]

That's capitalism in need of public funds and assets to avoid collapsing. Without socialism or society intervening, capitalism can't function. Socialism is successful now throughout the world, including China, the second-largest economy in the world. Marxism isn't necessarily marketless, it can use markets and have capitalists, in the beginning stages of its development.

Technology determines when a socialist economy can eliminate the market. It requires advanced automation and that's exactly what we have today. Capitalism is toast, and socialism is going to replace it. Watch and learn.

Government using public funds to bailout your beloved capitalist masters is socialism. Capitalism makes the profits private and the losses public. Socialism is constantly saving capitalism. You right-wingers always accuse American Democrats of being "commies", when they rely on a government program to serve the public. You're constantly accusing Dems of being socialists, because they want government to do more. However, when the government saves the economy, with public funds, you're like "Oh no no no, that's not socialism". LOL, you're such a pathetic hypocrite.



The Chinese people through their government has extensive ownership over the major centers of economic power. The industries that are vital to China's national infrastructure are at least partially owned by the public. More, the Chinese economy is centrally planned, If we had the same level of government central planning of the economy here in the United States you Republican conservatives would have a fucking heart attack, shouting "Communism! Communism!"..Again, you're hypocrites. Two faces, double standard, completely inconsistent.

Advanced automation and artificial intelligence is going to eliminate wage labor within the next ten years. Estimates are now even more extraordinary than before, due to how quickly artificial intelligence and robotics are advancing. Now genius, how do you propose your capitalist masters make a profit if no one is earning a wage? Are you aware that capitalism relies on wages? Without wages or wage labor, there's no capitalism because there's no paying consumer or market. You;'re the fucking idiot.




Another brainwashed working-class shithead defending his capitalist masters and slavery.

No, that is crony capitalism.

The Chinese people OWN JACK SHIT. The Party owns everything, and really only the top 1% of the Party does.

Another Marxist twat full of unearned gravitas spouting the same shit his idiot professor in economics 201 spouted off to him.

 

[TruthNotBS]

A lot of what you said was speculative. You said that if Mexico was an ally of Russia we would invade Mexico.

What I said is well-supported by the facts. Moreover, II never said that we should invade Mexico if it has close relations with Russia. You need to improve your reading comprehension skills. What I did say is that if Mexico entered into a military alliance with Russia and allowed Russia to deploy its troops and hardware on our border, our country wouldn't allow that. If you believe otherwise, you have your head so far up your ass that you can't think straight. Washington would never allow Russia or China to deploy its military right on our border with Mexico or Canada. We would do everything possible to stop that, even declare war. You're delusional if you believe otherwise.

 

[TruthNotBS]

No, that is crony capitalism.

The Chinese people OWN JACK SHIT. The Party owns everything, and really only the top 1% of the Party does.

Another Marxist twat full of unearned gravitas spouting the same shit his idiot professor in economics 201 spouted off to him.

There's more democracy in China than here in the US where corporations rule.

​

You have no moral high ground upon which to stand and point your crooked, feculent finger at China or anyone else, being that America is a plutocracy, not a democracy. Not only do we not have democracy in politics but the workplace, where Americans spend most of their waking hours, is run like an absolute dictatorship. So here in America, we're in no position to point fingers at China or anyone else.

My brother was forced to sign a document with the state he lives in, that denounces boycotting the Jewish State of Israhell, to get a contract with his local government WTF does the Jewish State of Israhell has to do with my brother getting a contract from his government?

How do you expect the American working class to pay their bills when their jobs are taken by intelligent robots? Without wages, there's no capitalism. You're just an ignorant moron.

 

[scruffy]

Trump is both a problem and a symptom of a problem.

Trump is a SOLUTION.

Got a better one?

The growing income gap is a Democrat issue. Unfortunately Democrats have preferred to waste their credibility on identity politics and pretending that a man with five felony convictions and five illegitimate children like George Floyd. is a hero.

In case you haven't noticed, it's happening world wide.

 

[scruffy]

That's not socialism, that's welfarestateism.

Marxist is gonna Marx. You idiots have been SO FUCKING SUCCESSFUL in the past.

Commies KILL people.

They killed 100 million people in the last century, and caused nothing but misery all over the world.

 

[martybegan]

There's more democracy in China than here in the US where corporations rule.

​

You have no moral high ground upon which to stand and point your crooked, feculent finger at China or anyone else, being that America is a plutocracy, not a democracy. Not only do we not have democracy in politics but the workplace, where Americans spend most of their waking hours, is run like an absolute dictatorship. So here in America, we're in no position to point fingers at China or anyone else.

My brother was forced to sign a document with the state he lives in, that denounces boycotting the Jewish State of Israhell, to get a contract with his local government WTF does the Jewish State of Israhell has to do with my brother getting a contract from his government?

How do you expect the American working class to pay their bills when their jobs are taken by intelligent robots? Without wages, there's no capitalism. You're just an ignorant moron.

Bullshit.

And you are a programmed Marxist moron.

Move. to. China. Then.

Or Venezuela, Socialism is working gangbusters there.

 

[Hector12]

Trump is a SOLUTION.

If Trump is the answer, what was the question?

 

[Hector12]

Trump is a SOLUTION.

Got a better one?

I have always liked Joe Biden, but I wish he was not running.

 

[Hector12]

Marxism covers all forms of socialism. Communism is just one of the more obvious flavors of that flawed philospohy.

Manifesto of the Communist Party by Karl Marx and Frederick EngelsFebruary 1848

1. Reactionary Socialism A. Feudal Socialism
The aristocracy, in order to rally the people to them, waved the proletarian alms-bag in front for abanner. But the people, so often as it joined them, saw on their hindquarters the old feudal coatsof arms, and deserted with loud and irreverent laughter...

B. Petty-Bourgeois Socialism... In its positive aims, however, this form of Socialism aspires either to restoring the old means ofproduction and of exchange, and with them the old property relations, and the old society, or tocramping the modern means of production and of exchange within the framework of the oldproperty relations that have been, and were bound to be, exploded by those means. In either case,it is both reactionary and Utopian...

C. German or “True” Socialism...While this “True” Socialism thus served the government as a weapon for fighting the Germanbourgeoisie, it, at the same time, directly represented a reactionary interest, the interest of GermanPhilistines...

2. Conservative or Bourgeois Socialism...Free trade: for the benefit of the working class. Protective duties: for the benefit of the workingclass. Prison Reform: for the benefit of the working class. This is the last word and the only seriously meant word of bourgeois socialism.It is summed up in the phrase: the bourgeois is a bourgeois – for the benefit of the working class.

3. Critical-Utopian Socialism and Communism...They, therefore, violently oppose all political action on the part of the working class; such action,according to them, can only result from blind unbelief in the new Gospel.

https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/download/pdf/Manifesto.pdf

When Karl Marx and Frederick Engels wrote The Communist Manifesto in 1847 many schools of socialism already existed. Marx and Engels found reasons to criticize each of them.

In the United States the Democrat party is not even socialist, let alone Marxist.