Why Conservatives Are Really The Same As Communists

[Si modo]

Leave it to the liberal mind to argue a strawman.

 

[Dr Grump]

I do. He's trying to use the old "if you go down that road, this is one of the outcomes"....or even the "slippery slope" argument, which is what the gun lovers use - ie. "you take my guns, this time next year we'll all be slaves to the gummint" etc, etc.

But the road I'm advocating is basically the Constitution


This guy's gotta be a Poe account or something.

Naw, there are a few posters on here - Cesspit, Si, Fit and Dude, who think they're a cut above the rest of us - including their fellow conservatives (although Dude will deny he is one)...We wear their pathetic attempts at ridicule because they think we're libs. Me? Where I'm from I'm a centrist and have been accused of being a conservative many times. Only in US right-wing Neocon land do people think I'm a lib..

Just bear that in mind when posting. There are enough interesting Conservatives on this board who are interested in real debate....

 

[Avatar4321]

I do. He's trying to use the old "if you go down that road, this is one of the outcomes"....or even the "slippery slope" argument, which is what the gun lovers use - ie. "you take my guns, this time next year we'll all be slaves to the gummint" etc, etc.

Nowhere in your proposal is there anything about "enemies of the state"..

Using Belrus is an example doesn't help his argument. Belrus is one of the few former Soviet Republics that as close to as what Soviet idealism was pre Gorbachev....

But forced labor was mentioned.

 

[☭proletarian☭]

I do. He's trying to use the old "if you go down that road, this is one of the outcomes"....or even the "slippery slope" argument, which is what the gun lovers use - ie. "you take my guns, this time next year we'll all be slaves to the gummint" etc, etc.

Nowhere in your proposal is there anything about "enemies of the state"..

Using Belrus is an example doesn't help his argument. Belrus is one of the few former Soviet Republics that as close to as what Soviet idealism was pre Gorbachev....

But forced labor was mentioned.

By fitnah.


You get an F on your reading comprehension test.

 

[Maple]

Communist doctrine demands that all people are created equal, but as Orwell pointed out, 'some are more equal than others'. IOW, the reality is a whole lot different.

With conservatives (on this board anyway), they want everybody to be equal. ie: if you work hard, are not a lazy arse, then you will get the rewards you deserve just like everybody else.

Now, the thing is, if we all managed to fulfil the Conservative Doctrine - ie, full employment, work hard, and enjoy the fruits of our labour, then isn't that communism? We'll all be the same? We all would have the same working conditions etc?

I am being slightly facetious, but I'm really trying to point out how ridiculous conservative thought is. Do conservatives really believe that we can ALL have excellent paying jobs, benefits and therefore not be a burden on the tax system? Do they really believe that? If so, then they are morons, because even the most dimmest lightbulb on either aisle knows that there are not enough jobs that pay $120,000 a year plus benefits. They know that when they yell "Stop whining about your lot in life and get yourself a better job", that if everybody ACTUALLY attempted this, then there are not enough jobs to go around. IOW, they are demanding of EVERYBODY, something that in reality can never happen.

This is why when it comes to jobs and the free market, conservatives are full of shit. All they see is their own set of circumstances and achievements, and can't for the life of them figure out that their end game is some idealised Utopia that is impossible to fulfil.


Rant over....

If you work hard, get an education, be diligent and disiplined, absolutely you can make $120,000 per year, YOU EARNED IT!!!!! If you sit on your ass in front of the tube waiting for your government check- you did not earn it and you DON'T DESERVE IT. It's called FREEDOM and OPPORTUNITY not the gravy train that you obviously have been living off and whining about. NO ONE OWES YOU A LIVING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[uscitizen]

A lot of liberals have no clue what a Bell curve is. Useful idiots - don't even grasp standard distributions.

Sure, it has something to do with Bra cup size.

 

[007]

Communist doctrine demands that all people are created equal, but as Orwell pointed out, 'some are more equal than others'. IOW, the reality is a whole lot different.

With conservatives (on this board anyway), they want everybody to be equal. ie: if you work hard, are not a lazy arse, then you will get the rewards you deserve just like everybody else.

Now, the thing is, if we all managed to fulfil the Conservative Doctrine - ie, full employment, work hard, and enjoy the fruits of our labour, then isn't that communism? We'll all be the same? We all would have the same working conditions etc?

I am being slightly facetious, but I'm really trying to point out how ridiculous conservative thought is. Do conservatives really believe that we can ALL have excellent paying jobs, benefits and therefore not be a burden on the tax system? Do they really believe that? If so, then they are morons, because even the most dimmest lightbulb on either aisle knows that there are not enough jobs that pay $120,000 a year plus benefits. They know that when they yell "Stop whining about your lot in life and get yourself a better job", that if everybody ACTUALLY attempted this, then there are not enough jobs to go around. IOW, they are demanding of EVERYBODY, something that in reality can never happen.

This is why when it comes to jobs and the free market, conservatives are full of shit. All they see is their own set of circumstances and achievements, and can't for the life of them figure out that their end game is some idealised Utopia that is impossible to fulfil.

Rant over....

You got it just backwards there grump.

Us conservatives are NAZIS. You liberals are the COMMUNISTS.

 

[uscitizen]

This thread seems to be very uncomplimentary to Communists....

Anticomitism?

 

[Oddball]

C

I am being slightly facetious, but I'm really trying to point out how ridiculous conservative thought is. Do conservatives really believe that we can ALL have excellent paying jobs, benefits and therefore not be a burden on the tax system? Do they really believe that? If so, then they are morons, because even the most dimmest lightbulb on either aisle knows that there are not enough jobs that pay $120,000 a year plus benefits. They know that when they yell "Stop whining about your lot in life and get yourself a better job", that if everybody ACTUALLY attempted this, then there are not enough jobs to go around. IOW, they are demanding of EVERYBODY, something that in reality can never happen.

This is why when it comes to jobs and the free market, conservatives are full of shit. All they see is their own set of circumstances and achievements, and can't for the life of them figure out that their end game is some idealised Utopia that is impossible to fulfil.


Rant over....

What you're being is brain dead.

Everyone is at a different point on the path. Today's grunt on the loading dock can be tomorrow's logistics CEO, who in turn hires that day's loading dock grunt.

Your rather childlike view appears to hold that everyone should have more or less the same outcome, no matter whether they've created a business that generates billions in useful products or they're the entry-level schlubb who can't see past Friday night happy hour.

 

[California Girl]

Communist doctrine demands that all people are created equal, but as Orwell pointed out, 'some are more equal than others'. IOW, the reality is a whole lot different.

With conservatives (on this board anyway), they want everybody to be equal. ie: if you work hard, are not a lazy arse, then you will get the rewards you deserve just like everybody else.

Now, the thing is, if we all managed to fulfil the Conservative Doctrine - ie, full employment, work hard, and enjoy the fruits of our labour, then isn't that communism? We'll all be the same? We all would have the same working conditions etc?

I am being slightly facetious, but I'm really trying to point out how ridiculous conservative thought is. Do conservatives really believe that we can ALL have excellent paying jobs, benefits and therefore not be a burden on the tax system? Do they really believe that? If so, then they are morons, because even the most dimmest lightbulb on either aisle knows that there are not enough jobs that pay $120,000 a year plus benefits. They know that when they yell "Stop whining about your lot in life and get yourself a better job", that if everybody ACTUALLY attempted this, then there are not enough jobs to go around. IOW, they are demanding of EVERYBODY, something that in reality can never happen.

This is why when it comes to jobs and the free market, conservatives are full of shit. All they see is their own set of circumstances and achievements, and can't for the life of them figure out that their end game is some idealised Utopia that is impossible to fulfil.


Rant over....

Rookie error, Dr G. Communists believe that everyone should remain equal. Of course, this can never work because there is always someone above another.... even in communism.

Conservatives believe that we are born equal - ie that circumstance of birth does not matter, it is what you do with your opportunities - and how you create your own opportunities that makes each equal. Equal opportunity does not add up to equal outcomes.

 

[Oddball]

Brain, brain...What is brain?

 

[Dr Grump]

C

I am being slightly facetious, but I'm really trying to point out how ridiculous conservative thought is. Do conservatives really believe that we can ALL have excellent paying jobs, benefits and therefore not be a burden on the tax system? Do they really believe that? If so, then they are morons, because even the most dimmest lightbulb on either aisle knows that there are not enough jobs that pay $120,000 a year plus benefits. They know that when they yell "Stop whining about your lot in life and get yourself a better job", that if everybody ACTUALLY attempted this, then there are not enough jobs to go around. IOW, they are demanding of EVERYBODY, something that in reality can never happen.

This is why when it comes to jobs and the free market, conservatives are full of shit. All they see is their own set of circumstances and achievements, and can't for the life of them figure out that their end game is some idealised Utopia that is impossible to fulfil.


Rant over....

What you're being is brain dead.

Everyone is at a different point on the path. Today's grunt on the loading dock can be tomorrow's logistics CEO, who in turn hires that day's loading dock grunt.

Your rather childlike view appears to hold that everyone should have more or less the same outcome, no matter whether they've created a business that generates billions in useful products or they're the entry-level schlubb who can't see past Friday night happy hour.

bbbbzzzz...You get an F..

That's not what I'm saying at all....

 

[Dr Grump]

If you work hard, get an education, be diligent and disiplined, absolutely you can make $120,000 per year, YOU EARNED IT!!!!! If you sit on your ass in front of the tube waiting for your government check- you did not earn it and you DON'T DESERVE IT. It's called FREEDOM and OPPORTUNITY not the gravy train that you obviously have been living off and whining about. NO ONE OWES YOU A LIVING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You'll get no argument from me....

 

[Dr Grump]

Communist doctrine demands that all people are created equal, but as Orwell pointed out, 'some are more equal than others'. IOW, the reality is a whole lot different.

With conservatives (on this board anyway), they want everybody to be equal. ie: if you work hard, are not a lazy arse, then you will get the rewards you deserve just like everybody else.

Now, the thing is, if we all managed to fulfil the Conservative Doctrine - ie, full employment, work hard, and enjoy the fruits of our labour, then isn't that communism? We'll all be the same? We all would have the same working conditions etc?

I am being slightly facetious, but I'm really trying to point out how ridiculous conservative thought is. Do conservatives really believe that we can ALL have excellent paying jobs, benefits and therefore not be a burden on the tax system? Do they really believe that? If so, then they are morons, because even the most dimmest lightbulb on either aisle knows that there are not enough jobs that pay $120,000 a year plus benefits. They know that when they yell "Stop whining about your lot in life and get yourself a better job", that if everybody ACTUALLY attempted this, then there are not enough jobs to go around. IOW, they are demanding of EVERYBODY, something that in reality can never happen.

This is why when it comes to jobs and the free market, conservatives are full of shit. All they see is their own set of circumstances and achievements, and can't for the life of them figure out that their end game is some idealised Utopia that is impossible to fulfil.


Rant over....

Rookie error, Dr G. Communists believe that everyone should remain equal. Of course, this can never work because there is always someone above another.... even in communism.

Conservatives believe that we are born equal - ie that circumstance of birth does not matter, it is what you do with your opportunities - and how you create your own opportunities that makes each equal. Equal opportunity does not add up to equal outcomes.

I said the first part of your post in the first part of mine.

That aside, what I'm trying to point out here, is that conservatives believe everybody can make something of themselves. That seems to be their starting point.

Mine is that - everything being equal - there are not enough well paying jobs around and realise this fact, therefore the above is impossible. That is my starting point.....

 

[☭proletarian☭]

Conservatives believe that we are born equal - ie that circumstance of birth does not matter, it is what you do with your opportunities - and how you create your own opportunities that makes each equal. Equal opportunity does not add up to equal outcomes.

So you're born equal... and we become equal us equal?

 

[☭proletarian☭]

All are not born in equal. Only morons believe they are.

 

[Si modo]

Communist doctrine demands that all people are created equal, but as Orwell pointed out, 'some are more equal than others'. IOW, the reality is a whole lot different.

With conservatives (on this board anyway), they want everybody to be equal. ie: if you work hard, are not a lazy arse, then you will get the rewards you deserve just like everybody else.

Now, the thing is, if we all managed to fulfil the Conservative Doctrine - ie, full employment, work hard, and enjoy the fruits of our labour, then isn't that communism? We'll all be the same? We all would have the same working conditions etc?

I am being slightly facetious, but I'm really trying to point out how ridiculous conservative thought is. Do conservatives really believe that we can ALL have excellent paying jobs, benefits and therefore not be a burden on the tax system? Do they really believe that? If so, then they are morons, because even the most dimmest lightbulb on either aisle knows that there are not enough jobs that pay $120,000 a year plus benefits. They know that when they yell "Stop whining about your lot in life and get yourself a better job", that if everybody ACTUALLY attempted this, then there are not enough jobs to go around. IOW, they are demanding of EVERYBODY, something that in reality can never happen.

This is why when it comes to jobs and the free market, conservatives are full of shit. All they see is their own set of circumstances and achievements, and can't for the life of them figure out that their end game is some idealised Utopia that is impossible to fulfil.


Rant over....

So many fallacies, yet a bit of time.

1. With conservatives (on this board anyway), they want everybody to be equal.
Not this conservative, and all the conservatives I know.
Strawman

2. Do conservatives really believe that we can ALL have excellent paying jobs, benefits and therefore not be a burden on the tax system?
Nope.
Strawman
Thus, the rest of that paragraph of yours is nonsense.

3. This is why when it comes to jobs and the free market, conservatives are full of shit.
As you've just argued a strawman, this is a non sequitur and irrelevant.



As I said previously, the liberal mind tends to argue strawmen. I'll help you beat that one to death: If any conservative believes that if we all work we'll all have the same $120K income, yeah, they are a moron.

Unfortunately for you, conservatives don't have the ideology you presented. Thus, you are arguing a strawman. Your post is irrelevant.

Now what?



We are born into a system where we have an equal opportunity and are equal under the eyes of the law. We also know that there is a standard distribution of human abilities - that Bell curve that is so annoying to libs. If the government stays out of the way, we all can be equal in acheiving our highest potential on that curve according to our abilities.

 

[Dr Grump]

Communist doctrine demands that all people are created equal, but as Orwell pointed out, 'some are more equal than others'. IOW, the reality is a whole lot different.

With conservatives (on this board anyway), they want everybody to be equal. ie: if you work hard, are not a lazy arse, then you will get the rewards you deserve just like everybody else.

Now, the thing is, if we all managed to fulfil the Conservative Doctrine - ie, full employment, work hard, and enjoy the fruits of our labour, then isn't that communism? We'll all be the same? We all would have the same working conditions etc?

I am being slightly facetious, but I'm really trying to point out how ridiculous conservative thought is. Do conservatives really believe that we can ALL have excellent paying jobs, benefits and therefore not be a burden on the tax system? Do they really believe that? If so, then they are morons, because even the most dimmest lightbulb on either aisle knows that there are not enough jobs that pay $120,000 a year plus benefits. They know that when they yell "Stop whining about your lot in life and get yourself a better job", that if everybody ACTUALLY attempted this, then there are not enough jobs to go around. IOW, they are demanding of EVERYBODY, something that in reality can never happen.

This is why when it comes to jobs and the free market, conservatives are full of shit. All they see is their own set of circumstances and achievements, and can't for the life of them figure out that their end game is some idealised Utopia that is impossible to fulfil.


Rant over....

So many fallacies, yet a bit of time.

1. With conservatives (on this board anyway), they want everybody to be equal.
Not this conservative, and all the conservatives I know.
Strawman

2. Do conservatives really believe that we can ALL have excellent paying jobs, benefits and therefore not be a burden on the tax system?
Nope.
Strawman
Thus, the rest of that paragraph of yours is nonsense.

3. This is why when it comes to jobs and the free market, conservatives are full of shit.
As you've just argued a strawman, this is a non sequitur and irrelevant.



As I said previously, the liberal mind tends to argue strawmen. I'll help you beat that one to death: If any conservative believes that if we all work we'll all have the same $120K income, yeah, they are a moron.

Unfortunately for you, conservatives don't have the ideology you presented. Thus, you are arguing a strawman. Your post is irrelevant.

Now what?

We are born into a system where we have an equal opportunity and are equal under the eyes of the law. We also know that there is a standard distribution of human abilities - that Bell curve that is so annoying to libs. If the government stays out of the way, we all can be equal in acheiving our highest potential on that curve according to our abilities.

1) See the bolded part in my post that you quoted
2) See my previous post to this...
3) The rest of your post is irrelevant due to the part I bolded in your post. If you are honestly believe that then you're at best naive.....

 

[Si modo]

Communist doctrine demands that all people are created equal, but as Orwell pointed out, 'some are more equal than others'. IOW, the reality is a whole lot different.

With conservatives (on this board anyway), they want everybody to be equal. ie: if you work hard, are not a lazy arse, then you will get the rewards you deserve just like everybody else.

Now, the thing is, if we all managed to fulfil the Conservative Doctrine - ie, full employment, work hard, and enjoy the fruits of our labour, then isn't that communism? We'll all be the same? We all would have the same working conditions etc?

I am being slightly facetious, but I'm really trying to point out how ridiculous conservative thought is. Do conservatives really believe that we can ALL have excellent paying jobs, benefits and therefore not be a burden on the tax system? Do they really believe that? If so, then they are morons, because even the most dimmest lightbulb on either aisle knows that there are not enough jobs that pay $120,000 a year plus benefits. They know that when they yell "Stop whining about your lot in life and get yourself a better job", that if everybody ACTUALLY attempted this, then there are not enough jobs to go around. IOW, they are demanding of EVERYBODY, something that in reality can never happen.

This is why when it comes to jobs and the free market, conservatives are full of shit. All they see is their own set of circumstances and achievements, and can't for the life of them figure out that their end game is some idealised Utopia that is impossible to fulfil.


Rant over....

So many fallacies, yet a bit of time.

1. With conservatives (on this board anyway), they want everybody to be equal.
Not this conservative, and all the conservatives I know.
Strawman

2. Do conservatives really believe that we can ALL have excellent paying jobs, benefits and therefore not be a burden on the tax system?
Nope.
Strawman
Thus, the rest of that paragraph of yours is nonsense.

3. This is why when it comes to jobs and the free market, conservatives are full of shit.
As you've just argued a strawman, this is a non sequitur and irrelevant.



As I said previously, the liberal mind tends to argue strawmen. I'll help you beat that one to death: If any conservative believes that if we all work we'll all have the same $120K income, yeah, they are a moron.

Unfortunately for you, conservatives don't have the ideology you presented. Thus, you are arguing a strawman. Your post is irrelevant.

Now what?

We are born into a system where we have an equal opportunity and are equal under the eyes of the law. We also know that there is a standard distribution of human abilities - that Bell curve that is so annoying to libs. If the government stays out of the way, we all can be equal in acheiving our highest potential on that curve according to our abilities.

1) See the bolded part in my post that you quoted
2) See my previous post to this...
3) The rest of your post is irrelevant due to the part I bolded in your post. If you are honestly believe that then you're at best naive.....

Well, you're going to have to expand on how your saying, "Mine is that - everything being equal - there are not enough well paying jobs around and realise this fact, therefore the above is impossible. That is my starting point..... " means that we are NOT born into a system where we have an equal opportunity and we are NOT equal in the eyes of the law.


If you want to change the goal post to something else - something other than your strawman in tha OP - then specify what that is.

 

[Dr Grump]

Well, you're going to have to expand on how your saying, "Mine is that - everything being equal - there are not enough well paying jobs around and realise this fact, therefore the above is impossible. That is my starting point..... " means that we are NOT born into a system where we have an equal opportunity and we are NOT equal in the eyes of the law.

If you want to change the goal post to something else - something other than your strawman in tha OP - then specify what that is.

Why do I have to expand on it? It is self explanatory. In order for me to expand on my saying you have to take the first part into account too.

Of course we are not born into a system where we have equal opportunity and are equal in the eyes of the law. That is very apparent.

I'm not changing the goal posts. You calling something a strawman doesn't mean it's a strawman, it's just your opinion.

That aside, I'll say this: Most conservatives on this board - and when reading conservative blogs or listening to conservative-leaning news outlets - some how believe that people who use government programmes are lesser people for doing so; are lazy; are bleeding the 'system' dry; are parasites; haven't worked a day in their life - the list goes on. My contention - and in NO WAY is it a strawman argument - is that if we all did truly reach our potential, there are those that would still need some sort of govt assistance. My anecdotal evidence - and there are even a couple of posts in this very thread - is that if this were to happen, conservatives would still have nothing but derision for those who fall at the very bottom of that Bell Curve. IOW, they expect the impossible....


As for explanations, I would love to see you explain this little doozie: If the government stays out of the way, we all can be equal in achieving our highest potential on that curve according to our abilities.