Why Can't the Pro-Choice Crowd Be Honest?

[Cecilie1200]

What a nut job, btw.

I don't think she's a nut job, but I do think you were correct about her being an immature narcissist who now apparently wants us to validate her decision and absolve her of all responsibility.

I hate to sound mean, because I actually kinda like Grace a bit, but someone get her some cheese for her whine. Cripes.

 

[Cecilie1200]

I would imagine that killing an unborn human would weigh much more heavily on one's conscience than giving the infant up for adoption.

At the risk of sounding cruel, if the decision was hard on HER, think how much harder it was on her baby.

Amazing how little sympathy that leaves me feeling.

 

[Cecilie1200]

I would imagine that killing an unborn human would weigh much more heavily on one's conscience than giving the infant up for adoption.

The 1/3 who are having their 2nd, 3rd, or 8th abortion would seem to disagree

Ain't that the truth. Once upon a time, I worked as a secretary in a fertility clinic. (I have told this story on this board before, so forgive me if you've heard it before.) I quit after a new patient came in because she had had THREE abortions in the past, and now that she FINALLY wanted to have children, she was unable to carry to term because she had essentially trained her body to eject any embryo so foolhardy as to try to take up residence. She had miscarried twice since then, and now proposed to spend enormous amounts of money having our doctors undo the damage she had done to herself. And they intended to help. I, on the other hand, couldn't countenance being a part of such thing, and resigned to find another job.

 

[Grace]

How to recognize a narcissist.


Wrong.

You dont sound mean, Cecillie. Youre just stating your opinion. Same as I have. Albeit mine was a tad more colorful.

But, I guess anyone with a differing view is a narcissist according to allie.
So sorry I have anger to the guy that impregnated me. Not.
I need no validation from a bunch of strangers on a message board nor have I asked anywhere where I should be absolved of my situation. I dealt with it the best I could. My resentment comes from those who probably never experienced what they are finger waggling about. And even if they have, they had their own choices to make and who am I to judge their decision on what to do about it? Nobody. Just like those who judge me. Nobodies.

So..with that said. Continue on arguing amongst yourselves. I said my piece. But Ill keep the cheese handy to pass around if anyone else begins to whine with their own opinions. Ill share.

 

[Cecilie1200]

I can only think it says something about our humanity or I should say in inhumanity when you think of the ease of which women consider abortions.

Just how can any woman do that? I cannot even wrap that around my head. Purposely taking a life of a child..MY child..ANY child>>> no I can't wrap that around my mind. How can anyone?

Don't bring a psychiatrist, poor me, expense, into the discussion. You might as well put a gun to your child's head that is already born. There is no excuse. Or your own head if it had been your mother's decision.

Couldn't tell you. I had my first child under circumstances which would lead many women to get an abortion (No, I don't intend to share the details), and while I was certainly freaked out and scared about the whole thing, I still never considered the possibility of killing her. My choices were strictly adoption vs. keeping.

I do understand, however, how tempting it is to wish you could make it all go away and be as if it never happened. I just don't get how anyone can believe it's actually possible.

 

[JBeukema]

If all you're going to do is scream and cry and stamp your feet, why don't you just stay out of these threads?

It's obvious to everyone you can't have an honest and intelligent discussion about the subject without your emotions shutting down your brain.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Suck my ass, Allie.
You cant even comprehend what has been said in this thread but ask me what my argument is?
Idiot fucktard.

Take it up with your therapist. If you're going to insist on spewing your personal life details all over the rest of us, we're going to have to demand $200 an hour.

 

[AllieBaba]

What a nut job, btw.

I don't think she's a nut job, but I do think you were correct about her being an immature narcissist who now apparently wants us to validate her decision and absolve her of all responsibility.

I hate to sound mean, because I actually kinda like Grace a bit, but someone get her some cheese for her whine. Cripes.

Me too. I repped the shit out of her until she lost it over abortion.

Why anyone would want to discuss abortion on a political message board when they have undealt with issues I don't know. I have argued this topic so many times, I have references memorized and my own copy down pat. And there's always some butt hurt girl who hasn't got her shit straight who thinks she can come into that sort of arena, where so much is at stake and people devote their LIVES to the debate of, and plead victimhood as a reason to lend credence to whatever she says.

IT DOESN'T WORK THAT WAY. You are not the only one like yourself, you are not special. I have met many, many women who have been raped, beaten, abused in every possible way. The silly idea that all women who have ever seen adversity NEED abortion and support it is wrong, wrong, wrong. Abortion has been preached as a cure all to our women for decades, and it is a huge factor in the societal mess we're in today; where women and children count for NOTHING.

Women are being used, exploited, lied to, BUTCHERED in the abortion industry. And PP tries to tell women they NEED it, and WANT it. I can't think of anything sicker...until I think of the way women believe it and fall for it.

Then they end up in a bad situation and they think "an abortion will fix this! Everything will be great!" and find out they were wrong when it's too late.

Wrong about everything. Wrong about taking chances with the understanding that if all else fails, there's always abortion, wrong about thinking that people who work in the abortion industry have any sort of respect for life, let alone women.

Anyway, it's common for women to enter into this discussion to chant the pro abortion mantra, thinking they have some sort of higher authority and greater insight based on their own personal experience. Sorry, if your insight is showing you a world where abortion is ever right or good, then your insight is skewed and you need to spend some time alone with yourself getting it straightened out.

 

[JBeukema]

I'll say it again

To trot [rape victims] out and parade them around to justify countless abortions as birth control... is to use them and make a spectacle of their suffering. It trivializes what they've experienced by turning them from women with real experiences to nothing more than convenient rhetorical devices to be sent out on stage and used as an excuse for the 93% of abortions that are done out of simple convenience. It is like shooting a man for playing his music too loud and then parading a battered women in front of the court and claiming that, because of her suffering, your own cold-blooded actions somehow cannot be criticized.

Real feminists should be outraged by those who use and exploit these women thusly.

 

[AllieBaba]

And let me head off the shrieking posts by harpees and fey abortion cheerleaders....

Pro lifers come from all walks of life and all experiences. Many of them have had abortions. Many of them have been raped and brutalized because that is the profile of women EVERYWHERE. Legalizing abortion doesn't make that better; all abortion does is make it easier for people who abuse women GET AWAY WITH IT.

Nobody in the pro life movement gives a shit if women sleep around, sluttery knows no religious economic boundary. the nature of our sex means that pregnancy, under whatever circumstances and they are varied, is always a risk. I'm a grown woman, not a 16 year old who could never imagine that someone could get pregnant and have it be anyone's fault but HERS. Most adult women are not judgmental of women who get pregnant in less than ideal situations, when they "shouldn't" or the result of a mistake or actual violence. I get it, most women who are pro-life get it. And we try really hard to communicate that. We fund wonderful programs that help thousands and thousands of women through unplanned pregnancies.

It comes down to this..it's a big deal. It's a big deal no matter how you try to pretend it isn't. But please don't pretend the pro-life side doesn't *get* what it's like to have an unplanned pregnancy, or worse, paint them as people who have any desire to punish anyone except people who hurt women and children.

Because that's why we're pro-life. It's to actually protect people. Not to pare people down to fit a false idea.

 

[Cecilie1200]

How to recognize a narcissist.


Wrong.

You dont sound mean, Cecillie. Youre just stating your opinion. Same as I have. Albeit mine was a tad more colorful.

But, I guess anyone with a differing view is a narcissist according to allie.
So sorry I have anger to the guy that impregnated me. Not.
I need no validation from a bunch of strangers on a message board nor have I asked anywhere where I should be absolved of my situation. I dealt with it the best I could. My resentment comes from those who probably never experienced what they are finger waggling about. And even if they have, they had their own choices to make and who am I to judge their decision on what to do about it? Nobody. Just like those who judge me. Nobodies.

So..with that said. Continue on arguing amongst yourselves. I said my piece. But Ill keep the cheese handy to pass around if anyone else begins to whine with their own opinions. Ill share.

You don't have to be sorry for being angry with the guy who attacked you. I was a victim of violence once (I've mentioned that on the board before, as well), and he is now dead. I'm bang alongside the idea of anger and vengeance against violent criminal scum.

I have to disagree about your need for validation, though. The fact that you keep coming here, blurting out your personal issues and traumas and getting defensive and emotional at any perception that someone MIGHT criticize you for them argues very strongly AGAINST your assertion that you're perfectly okay with your decision. So does the apparent belief you have that you must defend ALL abortion in order to defend your own. The truth is that the only person here who's really drawing a parallel between you and the majority of women who get abortions is YOU.

 

[Cecilie1200]

What a nut job, btw.

I don't think she's a nut job, but I do think you were correct about her being an immature narcissist who now apparently wants us to validate her decision and absolve her of all responsibility.

I hate to sound mean, because I actually kinda like Grace a bit, but someone get her some cheese for her whine. Cripes.

Me too. I repped the shit out of her until she lost it over abortion.

Why anyone would want to discuss abortion on a political message board when they have undealt with issues I don't know. I have argued this topic so many times, I have references memorized and my own copy down pat. And there's always some butt hurt girl who hasn't got her shit straight who thinks she can come into that sort of arena, where so much is at stake and people devote their LIVES to the debate of, and plead victimhood as a reason to lend credence to whatever she says.

IT DOESN'T WORK THAT WAY. You are not the only one like yourself, you are not special. I have met many, many women who have been raped, beaten, abused in every possible way. The silly idea that all women who have ever seen adversity NEED abortion and support it is wrong, wrong, wrong. Abortion has been preached as a cure all to our women for decades, and it is a huge factor in the societal mess we're in today; where women and children count for NOTHING.

Women are being used, exploited, lied to, BUTCHERED in the abortion industry. And PP tries to tell women they NEED it, and WANT it. I can't think of anything sicker...until I think of the way women believe it and fall for it.

Then they end up in a bad situation and they think "an abortion will fix this! Everything will be great!" and find out they were wrong when it's too late.

Wrong about everything. Wrong about taking chances with the understanding that if all else fails, there's always abortion, wrong about thinking that people who work in the abortion industry have any sort of respect for life, let alone women.

Anyway, it's common for women to enter into this discussion to chant the pro abortion mantra, thinking they have some sort of higher authority and greater insight based on their own personal experience. Sorry, if your insight is showing you a world where abortion is ever right or good, then your insight is skewed and you need to spend some time alone with yourself getting it straightened out.

We're definitely on the same page with that.

Furthermore, I have very little patience in general with the whole "doctrine of infallibility", as Ann Coulter calls it, meaning the idea that if you can get a victim to state your position, they're automatically right and cannot be criticized or disagreed with.

 

[Cecilie1200]

And let me head off the shrieking posts by harpees and fey abortion cheerleaders....

Pro lifers come from all walks of life and all experiences. Many of them have had abortions. Many of them have been raped and brutalized because that is the profile of women EVERYWHERE. Legalizing abortion doesn't make that better; all abortion does is make it easier for people who abuse women GET AWAY WITH IT.

Nobody in the pro life movement gives a shit if women sleep around, sluttery knows no religious economic boundary. the nature of our sex means that pregnancy, under whatever circumstances and they are varied, is always a risk. I'm a grown woman, not a 16 year old who could never imagine that someone could get pregnant and have it be anyone's fault but HERS. Most adult women are not judgmental of women who get pregnant in less than ideal situations, when they "shouldn't" or the result of a mistake or actual violence. I get it, most women who are pro-life get it. And we try really hard to communicate that. We fund wonderful programs that help thousands and thousands of women through unplanned pregnancies.

It comes down to this..it's a big deal. It's a big deal no matter how you try to pretend it isn't. But please don't pretend the pro-life side doesn't *get* what it's like to have an unplanned pregnancy, or worse, paint them as people who have any desire to punish anyone except people who hurt women and children.

Because that's why we're pro-life. It's to actually protect people. Not to pare people down to fit a false idea.

Very true. WE are not the ones covering up for 30-year-old men impregnating 13-year-old girls in service of our political agenda. Talk about facilitating the abuse of women!

 

[AllieBaba]

Or refusing to provide any statistical data that would show exactly what IS happening to bring women in for abortions. If we know the causes and the numbers, we can address the issue.

But for some reason, PP doesn't want us to have those numbers.

 

[Grace]

If all you're going to do is scream and cry and stamp your feet, why don't you just stay out of these threads?

It's obvious to everyone you can't have an honest and intelligent discussion about the subject without your emotions shutting down your brain.

Well color me confused then, because from what Ive read lately, thats exactly what many are doing. So is crying and stamping of the feet a no no?
Ive been honest. And Ive also discussed. Because some of you dont like HOW I discuss aint my prob. Its yours. As you said...deal with it.

 

[Grace]

How to recognize a narcissist.


Wrong.

You dont sound mean, Cecillie. Youre just stating your opinion. Same as I have. Albeit mine was a tad more colorful.

But, I guess anyone with a differing view is a narcissist according to allie.
So sorry I have anger to the guy that impregnated me. Not.
I need no validation from a bunch of strangers on a message board nor have I asked anywhere where I should be absolved of my situation. I dealt with it the best I could. My resentment comes from those who probably never experienced what they are finger waggling about. And even if they have, they had their own choices to make and who am I to judge their decision on what to do about it? Nobody. Just like those who judge me. Nobodies.

So..with that said. Continue on arguing amongst yourselves. I said my piece. But Ill keep the cheese handy to pass around if anyone else begins to whine with their own opinions. Ill share.

You don't have to be sorry for being angry with the guy who attacked you. I was a victim of violence once (I've mentioned that on the board before, as well), and he is now dead. I'm bang alongside the idea of anger and vengeance against violent criminal scum.

I have to disagree about your need for validation, though. The fact that you keep coming here, blurting out your personal issues and traumas and getting defensive and emotional at any perception that someone MIGHT criticize you for them argues very strongly AGAINST your assertion that you're perfectly okay with your decision. So does the apparent belief you have that you must defend ALL abortion in order to defend your own. The truth is that the only person here who's really drawing a parallel between you and the majority of women who get abortions is YOU.

Missed this one. Hmmm. You may have a point. Ill muse on it. And while Im doing that, Ill do it somewhere else besides here because obviously there is a...something..not sure of the word I want..... that I need to consider.
At least you spoke to me without the nastiness. Kind of. Makes a big difference on what sticks..and what flys over the proverbial roof.

Witht hat said...I AM done with this thread since I have things to think about.

 

[JBeukema]

I AM done with this thread

You've said that before

 

[Immanuel]

If all you're going to do is scream and cry and stamp your feet, why don't you just stay out of these threads?

It's obvious to everyone you can't have an honest and intelligent discussion about the subject without your emotions shutting down your brain.

Well color me confused then, because from what Ive read lately, thats exactly what many are doing. So is crying and stamping of the feet a no no?
Ive been honest. And Ive also discussed. Because some of you dont like HOW I discuss aint my prob. Its yours. As you said...deal with it.

Pssst! All that crying and stamping your feet get you when you are on the internet is a wet keyboard and sore feet.

Do what I do? Punch the crap out of an inanimate object in a near by location... wait!!! not your computer monitor or keyboard... trust me, that is not the answer... anyway, punch something real hard (with the side of your fist not the knuckles as they break too easily) and pretend it is that idiot Immie. That will make you feel so much better. Trust me, it works, except that instead of Immie, I pretend it is one of the local trolls I won't name him... er is it a her?

Immie

 

[Synthaholic]

If one's position is defensible, shouldn't you be able to defend it with logical, cogent, well-thought-out arguments? Shouldn't you be able to discuss the matter in an honest and intelligent manner?

A blastocyst/foetus/etc is an organism. It is alive and it is genetically human.* These are verifiable, objective, demonstrable scientific facts. It is all a matter of basic biology.

Therefore, the child is be definition a living human organism. We are, therefore, dealing with a human life. To 'abort' a pregnancy is to bring about the end of those physiological and biological processes that identify this human organism as alive- it is to bring about the child's death.

It is therefore a scientific fact that when we speak of abortion, we speak of ending human life. As we are also humans, we are therefore dealing with a case of homicide- homicide is defined as the killing of a human being by another human being.

If your position is defensible- if the ending of this life is a defensible ac- then you should be able to demonstrate why this is justifiable or acceptable without denying the facts of what it is you support. When pretend that we're not dealing with a living human being, you reveal that one or both of the following is true:
-You do not know what it is you advocate; you are guided purely by your emotion and your programming. You should shut your ******* mouth and not speak about things you do not understand

-You know your position is indefensible; you must lie about what it is you advocate because you cannot honestly defend your position






*Yes, I know a foetus can die in utero without the woman's body expelling it [see: stone foetus] and that humans aren't the only species to experience pregnancy. Given the context, such things should go unsaid. Let us exercise a little critical thinking here.

False premise. An organism is no more a child than an acorn is a tree.

 

[AllieBaba]

When all else fails, subscribe to a Truthmatters thread. Those always cheer me up.