Why Bush Bypassed the Geneva Convention

[NewGuy]

Originally posted by DKSuddeth
and those of us who choose neither?

You will be allowed submission to the system or death. You may still choose, though.

 

[freeandfun1]

Just the name of Islam itself implies that the religion does not provide for "Free Will". At least Christianity is based on this concept. The word Islam itself means "Submission". The dictionary defines submission as:

sub·mis·sion ( P ) Pronunciation Key (sb-mshn)
n.

The act of submitting to the power of another: “Oppression that cannot be overcome does not give rise to revolt but to submission” (Simone Weil).
The state of having submitted. See Synonyms at surrender.
The state of being submissive or compliant; meekness.

If Islam is such a "loving" religion, why would one have to "submit"? In my opinion, the only religions that do not allow for free will are religions that know they are wrong. That is why they must call for submission.

 

[DKSuddeth]

Originally posted by NewGuy
You will be allowed submission to the system or death. You may still choose, though.

I choose............to fight

 

[dilloduck]

in christianity one must submit to Jesus.......Fundamentalism sucks and i'll be fighting. I won't submit to either

 

[freeandfun1]

Originally posted by dilloduck
in christianity one must submit to Jesus.......Fundamentalism sucks and i'll be fighting. I won't submit to either

Nobody must submit to Jesus. Christianity allows for free will...

I am not a Christian, but I do know enough about both religions to know there is a difference in how they view worship.

"I have been ordered by God to fight with people till they bear testimony to the fact that there is no God but Allah and that Mohammed is his messenger, and that they establish prayer and pay Zakat (money). If they do it, their blood and their property are safe from me" (see Bukhari Vol. I, p. 13).

(Sahih Bukhari is a collection of sayings and deeds of Prophet Muhammad (pbuh), also known as the sunnah.)

The sunnah is considered by most Muslims as a "must read" as they believe that one cannot follow the teachings of Muhammad and the Quaran unless they follow sunnah.

Find a quote like this in either the New or Old Testaments and I will eat my shorts!

 

[NewGuy]

Originally posted by freeandfun1
Nobody must submit to Jesus. Christianity allows for free will...


Find a quote like this in either the New or Old Testaments and I will eat my shorts!

Lets make dilloduck eat your shorts if he CANT!

 

[5stringJeff]

Originally posted by freeandfun1
"I have been ordered by God to fight with people till they bear testimony to the fact that there is no God but Allah and that Mohammed is his messenger, and that they establish prayer and pay Zakat (money). If they do it, their blood and their property are safe from me" (see Bukhari Vol. I, p. 13).

Therein lies a huge difference between the two religions. The Bible does not support violent means of evangelism; Islam's scriptures do.

 

[Doc Holiday]

SO, let's take their violent scriptures and shove them up their ass. While we're stuffing things in their asses, lets throw the Geneva Convention for good measure.

 

[insein]

Originally posted by DKSuddeth
I choose............to fight

I choose love baby, YEEEEAAAAA!!!!

 

[Avatar4321]

Originally posted by DKSuddeth
why was the GC signed by the US then? should we remove ourselves from another international treaty?

And what would be wrong if we did remove ourselves from another international treaty? Treaties are made and broken all the time.

 

[Avatar4321]

Originally posted by DKSuddeth
We're not fighting a religion, we're fighting groups who pervert that religion.

I think its all semantics. i perverted religion is simply an apostate religion regardless of what you call it.

 

[Avatar4321]

Originally posted by DKSuddeth
was christianity replaced by the crusades?

Going to have to agree with the others. what do the crusades have to do with anything. For one they werent caused by religion itself. They were caused by the facts that the turks were invading Europe from the east and some Almoravid Caliphate invading through Africa Via Spain. The political leaders and the Pope saw the need to resist this invasion and retake the Holy Land after the fall of Byzantium so they began a series of crusades. While there is certainly a religious it seems more a political necessity to me. Besides in a way Christianity was replaces by the crusades. after the crusades began the renaisance and the Protestant revolution which developed into Modern Christianity.

 

[dilloduck]

OK so say I dont submit to Jesus----what does the bible say my other choice is?

 

[Avatar4321]

Originally posted by freeandfun1
Just the name of Islam itself implies that the religion does not provide for "Free Will". At least Christianity is based on this concept. The word Islam itself means "Submission". The dictionary defines submission as:

sub·mis·sion ( P ) Pronunciation Key (sb-mshn)
n.

The act of submitting to the power of another: “Oppression that cannot be overcome does not give rise to revolt but to submission” (Simone Weil).
The state of having submitted. See Synonyms at surrender.
The state of being submissive or compliant; meekness.

If Islam is such a "loving" religion, why would one have to "submit"? In my opinion, the only religions that do not allow for free will are religions that know they are wrong. That is why they must call for submission.

Actually ive always found this an odd paradox of Islamic thought. There is no free will but how does one submit to the will of God without the free will to submit?

Also i would point Calvinist brand of Christianity does not believe in free will. Personally I think they are trying to interpret the verses on predestination in a vaccuum and ignoring the clear scriptures of the Old Testament given by the prophet Joshua "Choose this day whom you will serve"

 

[Avatar4321]

Originally posted by dilloduck
OK so say I dont submit to Jesus----what does the bible say my other choice is?

We face the full consqeuences of justice for our transgressions and sins.

Fact is we all make mistakes. There is no denying that. because of this we cant be allowed back into the prescense of God because He is perfect. But because He knew we would make mistakes He provided His Son as a Sacrifice that if we choose to follow Him, we could be perfected like the Father and the Atonement.

We have a choice. Life or death. Happiness or Misery. We have a choice whether to accept the gift or not. if we accept we get mercy. if not we get justice because cant force us to accept it and be happy because its completely contrary to his plan.

 

[dilloduck]

Brilliant word---paradox ! (2 mds. right)--Thats why the great religions of the world are discussed over and over. Sooner or later people figure out they have to think for themselves because all the answers lie within.

 

[freeandfun1]

Originally posted by dilloduck
OK so say I dont submit to Jesus----what does the bible say my other choice is?

Hell. The Bible says there are two paths to life. Once you are informed of this, it is up to YOU to choose which path you will take. One is narrow, the other is wide.... which one do you think the majority of peope will take??

The difference it, Jesus does not compulse you to submit. You are to do it of your own volition. If you do not WANT to submit, then you make that choice and the option is whatever lies ahead. (If you believe in the Bible, then you will be cast into hell). Again, the difference is that YOU have the FREE WILL to make that choice. Nowhere in the Bible does it say that you MUST submit.

Muhammad says that one MUST submit to Allah. Again, the name of the religion in of itself says this.

Do you see the difference?

 

[dilloduck]

Submit or be miserable------hey great choice we are given there---pretty close to submit or be dead---

 

[Annie]

The Geneva Conventions have been selectively implemented since their inception. Hitler abided by them in the main for US and Brits POW. Obviously not for 'others.'

The Japanese did not abide by them, see the Battaan Death March and Iwo Jima. Not to mention the 'experiments' on POW's. Truly, if the average American had understood what was done, the Japanese would not have benefitted by Mac Arthur.

Neither the US nor former Soviet Union abided by GC, but heh, nothing happened during the Cold War.

 

[freeandfun1]

Originally posted by dilloduck
Submit or be miserable------hey great choice we are given there---pretty close to submit or be dead---

If you don't believe in heaven or hell, then why are you worried about being miserable? I know lots of Atheists that are happy on this earth. What they don't realize is that they will become miserable after death. But that is their choice. Be happy now and miserable after death or be happy now, believe in Christ and be happy after death too.....

Islam demands submission NOW. It does not allow for you to decide and then be judged after death.