Why Americans Hate Democrats- A Dialogue- Let's Talk About Faith

[Hobbit]

You want God to recognize that you have chosen this person as your partner for life.

Therein lies the problem. Marriage is a religious institution and it hasn't been much clearer than Sodom and Gamorrah and homosexuality being on all the lists of sins in the New Testament. It's not going to happen without the government violating the first amendment rights of the church.

 

[ScreamingEagle]

Or reason against faith, for that matter.

You'd probably be surprised how much reason there is in the major faiths of the world. Probably why they all have lasted for so long.

Religion aside, it still boils down to reason vs. emotion. Our society will work better without opening that big can of worms.

 

[Bonnie]

I disagree on a few things. First, i disagree that Clinton or Carter were moderates. If they were moderates then we ought to be very afraid of moderates and even more so the extreme left.

If they are moderates look at what damage a moderate can do, why would you think of voting for anyone short of conservative?

I have to agree with you Avatar, Clinton and especially Carter were not moderates. Clinton came about halfway on the issue of Welfare reform, so I guess we can credit him with that. But on the whole Clinton's tax increases were deciedly liberal. His wifes attempt at socialized medicine was down right scary liberal. Clinton after terrorist attacks bombed a few tents in the cush, not exactly a moderates response. Left our soldiers to get dragged thru the streets of Somalia because they lacked re-inforcements. Put us in the position we are in now with N Korea. And on and on it goes.

 

[Gem]

Hobbit,

You would be right about marriage being a religious institution....IF government had stayed out of it in the first place. If we went to a system in which government did not recognize "marriage" but rather civil unions...and religions "married" people...then perhaps your point would be correct...but the government has already entered the marriage realm and thus is causing some of the problems we have seen here...

 

[wolvie20m]

wolvie,

if you name identifies you honestly...then you are a 20 year old male...yes?

are you married? in love? ever want to get married?

we teach our children how life is supposed to be lived. grow up. go to school. learn something. find something that interests us to excel at. go to college or the workforce. get a job. do it well. meet someone. fall in love. MARRY THEM. have children. love your family. try to enjoy your life. be a good person. die.

now, of course. every person looks at this little map of life a little differently. some people buy into it. some don't. but the bottom line is, the majority of Americans grow up thinking that marriage is something that they will eventually do.

straight or gay...most people think they will marry at some point in time...

so you fall in love...and you want to be with that person forever...you can't imagine life without them...you want to make a commitment to that person to love, cherish, protect, etc etc etc. YOU WANT THE WORLD TO RECOGNIZE THE COMMITMENT YOU HAVE MADE TO ONE ANOTHER. you want God to recognize that you have chosen this person as your partner for life.

thats why people get married...and MOST people, gay or straight have some semblance of those feelings when they fall in love with the person they want to be with forever.

now...I agree...when gay people do this they are doing it in an unusual, atypical manner, with someone of the same sex as opposed to the opposite...but their FEELINGS on the matter don't change. hence why they want to marry.

ask all of the straight married people you know if they would have rather lived together without getting married...ask them why they married...their reasons will be the same reasons gay people want to marry...

I understand that you are against homosexuality, wolvie...but use your brain a bit and try to understand that they are not asking for marriage to piss you off...to change the world...to piss on American values...to laugh at Christianity...to gross you out when you see them in public...they are asking for marriage for the same reason all the married people you know are asking for it...and you should try to understand that....their reasons for wanting to marry are not abnormal...it is only the fact that they both happen to be men or women that is different.

No No No, I'm not against homosexuality, if thats thier choice good for them. Would I like to have chidren? Yes I would. Would I like to marry? Maybe I see marige is overated if I want to be with someone for the rest of my life I will, I don't need some peice of paper or ceramony to tell me that we lovce each other. Infact marrige can also cause breakups, but thats a whole nother disscusion. I just think they should aim for civil unions not marrige. I would lose alot of faith in the church if they allowed it to happen in their walls.

 

[nakedemperor]

I just think they should aim for civil unions not marrige. I would lose alot of faith in the church if they allowed it to happen in their walls.

Of the gay marriage bans passed in 11 states recently, 8 contain language that could aslo prohibit civil unions for gays (exceptions being Mississippi, Minnesota, and Oregon). One giant leap backwards.. garsh.

 

[Merlin1047]

I am not saying that our problems will be solved by sitting down and talking civilly to one another....I'm saying that CERTAINLY it isn't going to happen by both sides hurling insults...so why don't we start with civility, coherance, calm dialogue...and go from there.

Spoilsport!!!!!!! :happy2:

 

[wolvie20m]

That sucks I hope they get that right if they want it on that. I see nothing wrong with civil unions.

 

[freeandfun1]

That sucks I hope they get that right if they want it on that. I see nothing wrong with civil unions.

it might suck, but that is how our system was intended - to let the STATES decide. I think most Americans have forgotten that, as the federal government has slowly been creeping into our lives and laws over the last 50 years. if a state decides to ban civil unions, then so be it. if a person doesn't like it, they can move to a state that will.

 

[wolvie20m]

or they can go to Europe and save us the trouble..

 

[Bonnie]

Hobbit,

You would be right about marriage being a religious institution....IF government had stayed out of it in the first place. If we went to a system in which government did not recognize "marriage" but rather civil unions...and religions "married" people...then perhaps your point would be correct...but the government has already entered the marriage realm and thus is causing some of the problems we have seen here...

A primary reason that Governemnt intervened into marital affairs was one of practicality. Back when women did not work but stayed home and took care of children, they relied soley on husbands to live, so marriage was a way to protect a womans interest, secondly when you marry you need to take a blood test to make sure you are not marrying a relative, another phenomenon that was taking place years ago. These measures were put into place as safe gaps for those occurances. Religious marriages are still quite a seperate thing form legal marriages.

 

[wolvie20m]

secondly when you marry you need to take a blood test to make sure you are not marrying a relative, another phenomenon that was taking place years ago.

Was this happening often or something?

 

[dilloduck]

wolvie,

if you name identifies you honestly...then you are a 20 year old male...yes?

are you married? in love? ever want to get married?

we teach our children how life is supposed to be lived. grow up. go to school. learn something. find something that interests us to excel at. go to college or the workforce. get a job. do it well. meet someone. fall in love. MARRY THEM. have children. love your family. try to enjoy your life. be a good person. die.

now, of course. every person looks at this little map of life a little differently. some people buy into it. some don't. but the bottom line is, the majority of Americans grow up thinking that marriage is something that they will eventually do.

straight or gay...most people think they will marry at some point in time...

so you fall in love...and you want to be with that person forever...you can't imagine life without them...you want to make a commitment to that person to love, cherish, protect, etc etc etc. YOU WANT THE WORLD TO RECOGNIZE THE COMMITMENT YOU HAVE MADE TO ONE ANOTHER. you want God to recognize that you have chosen this person as your partner for life.

thats why people get married...and MOST people, gay or straight have some semblance of those feelings when they fall in love with the person they want to be with forever.

now...I agree...when gay people do this they are doing it in an unusual, atypical manner, with someone of the same sex as opposed to the opposite...but their FEELINGS on the matter don't change. hence why they want to marry.

ask all of the straight married people you know if they would have rather lived together without getting married...ask them why they married...their reasons will be the same reasons gay people want to marry...

I understand that you are against homosexuality, wolvie...but use your brain a bit and try to understand that they are not asking for marriage to piss you off...to change the world...to piss on American values...to laugh at Christianity...to gross you out when you see them in public...they are asking for marriage for the same reason all the married people you know are asking for it...and you should try to understand that....their reasons for wanting to marry are not abnormal...it is only the fact that they both happen to be men or women that is different.

I'm in support of civil unions however it appears to me that gays want us to believe that a union between a man and a woman is the SAME THING as a homosexual union. It is NOT and most heteros are merely asking gays to use a different term to define their type of union. Is that so much to ask? Whatever term they use to describe a homosexual union could become just as symbolic and precious as the term "marriage". You may think the semantics are insignificant here but I challenge you to try another term for marriage. My bet is that heteros will accept the term before the homos will.
Homos ARE different---the question is if can they accept it not only as an individual but as a couple.
( my sister is gay--don't tell me I don't know anything about em)

 

[ScreamingEagle]

Originally Posted by Gem
I am not saying that our problems will be solved by sitting down and talking civilly to one another....I'm saying that CERTAINLY it isn't going to happen by both sides hurling insults...so why don't we start with civility, coherance, calm dialogue...and go from there.

Have you tried to civilly discuss a topic with a liberal lately?

Pretty hard to do at any time, but if anybody is into hurling insults, the libs have been winning the grand prize for years.

Besides, now it's their turn to put the best foot forward.

 

[Bonnie]

That sucks I hope they get that right if they want it on that. I see nothing wrong with civil unions.

Well I have no real problems with civil unions either, however the question of adoption now enters the picture with a civil union, and many have a problem with children having two moms or two dads as this can lead in some people's mind as indoctrination to a gay lifestyle that children shouldn't necessarily be exposed to. Taking it a step further what about artificial insemination etc. It just opens a whole can of worms and further waters down the nuclear family that is whether some care to admit it or not, the fabric of our society and it's survival.

 

[ScreamingEagle]

A primary reason that Governemnt intervened into marital affairs was one of practicality. Back when women did not work but stayed home and took care of children, they relied soley on husbands to live, so marriage was a way to protect a womans interest, secondly when you marry you need to take a blood test to make sure you are not marrying a relative, another phenomenon that was taking place years ago. These measures were put into place as safe gaps for those occurances. Religious marriages are still quite a seperate thing form legal marriages.

Excellent points. These are things the liberals don't understand. Marriage is not necessarily a religious deal, it is how society operates for the benefit of family, and primarily children.

I thought the libs were out to protect the children - NOT!

 

[Bonnie]

Was this happening often or something?

Some would say it still is in some remote areas of the country. LOL Seriously incest leads to retarded children, hence not good for society.

 

[ScreamingEagle]

Well I have no real problems with civil unions either, however the question of adoption now enters the picture with a civil union, and many have a problem with children having two moms or two dads as this can lead in some people's mind as indoctrination to a gay lifestyle that children shouldn't necessarily be exposed to. Taking it a step further what about artificial insemination etc. It just opens a whole can of worms and further waters down the nuclear family that is whether some care to admit it or not, the fabric of our society and it's survival.

This is why so many Americans are against civil unions as well. What many call "marriage-lite". It brings up just about as many of the problems as a gay marriage would.

 

[wolvie20m]

Some would say it still is in some remote areas of the country. LOL Seriously incest leads to retarded children, hence not good for society.

Disturbing very very disturbing

 

[Bonnie]

It's very nice to bandy about terms like open minded, non judgemental, as long as it doesn't hurt anyone else, blah, blah. The problem is no one lives in a vacuum, a lot of our actions whether we care to acknowledge it or not affects others. At some point in a civilized society must put the brakes to stop and see exactly how laws are corrupting what is good for the whole. We cannot have an anything goes society without there being consequences. It has nothing to do with moral judgements. If the courts were to grant same sex marriage but not adoption, there would be much legal wrangling as this would be seen as discrimination. Once you open that door you need to be prepared for the flood. The reason I think the moral majority in this country has been so villafied as being too judgemental is they are the only ones willing to stand up and say hold it one second, just what are we doing here? But if you look at their arguments much of what they say is just common sense.