Why American children are falling behind

[Samson]

because we can't blame the kids, won't blame the parents, and don't have the collective horsepower to realize systemic problems have far reaching social implications

so unions are left, and in light of the union busting that's gained a lotta steam here, fits quite nicely into the American denial via demonization scheme we like sh*t ourselves with

~S~

Texas State Law prohibits Teacher Unionization (much like Federal Employees are prohibited from Unionizing, e.g. Flight Controllers, who, striking in 1980 were summarily Fired by the Reagan Administration). Texas has no income tax.

New York (and California?) allow Teacher Unions, and they have high state income taxes to pay the resulting inflated salaries.

Where do students learn more?

Got me, where is texas ranked nationwide in primary education?

Not sure about primary education.

Newsweek publishes a list of America's 1,300 Top PUBLIC Highschools every year.

For 2009, here are the numbers of schools by state that made the list:

Texas = 134
California = 267
New York = 180
Florida = 136

Public schools are ranked according to a ratio devised by Jay Mathews: the number of Advanced Placement, Intl. Baccalaureate and/or Cambridge tests taken by all students at a school in 2007 divided by the number of graduating seniors.

 

[antagon]

your hopes are presumably shared by school administrators, but are failing to produce the results. schools must take the responsibility to instill a work ethic and morality in students. and thats that. anything short is making an excuse. sports activities and homework are some of the best institutions in the education system. typical, too, to reproach what works to protect what doesnt.

These statements aren't that unusual, nor are they necessarily unshared by school administrators: Schools LEAP at the chance to justify broadening any revenue-consuming program, regardless of however silly it might be.

How would you propose schools "instill moarlity in students,"...

First we'll need to hire a consulting agency to determine "what is moral." Better yet, we could send a team of administrators to an Island off Greece for the summer to ponder the issue. I volunteer.

Second, if the administrators ever return, we'll need to keep teachers afterschool for a few days, preferably Fridays, to disseminate the "Morality Curriculum."

Next, we need to increase taxes (bond issue) to purchase all the various and sundry books, materials, and films associated with the Morality Curriculum. Additionally, the taxes will need to increase the budget of the District's Legal Dept. to defend against all the ACLU suits that will be generated when anyone disagrees with The District's Morality.

......I could go on, ad infininum, but I think you get the gist.

i would welcome teachers and admins to abandon the greek seminars they learned about ADHD, etc, and take on some that produce results instead of goalpost shifts which have labeled masses of americans as drug-dependent retards.

morality as applicable in our secular public schools might just boil down to decorum in class and valuing education, a well-earned dollar, America, self-development, self-preparation, hard work, etc... we're moving toward a moratorium on this sort of education. there is no sense of purpose for students, unless their parents cram it down their throats. anything without a purpose is inane time and spending.

the school system should assume the roles required to produce results instead of standing on the sidelines, lamenting on failed parenting and filling prescriptions for the riddilin deficiency they claim we've got.

... much less put them to bed before 10 PM and wake them before 7 AM?

if they do better with the above, this part will be moot.

*now where's the abandon the foster system, bring back boarding schools and orphanages thread?*

 

[Samson]

... much less put them to bed before 10 PM and wake them before 7 AM?

if they do better with the above, this part will be moot.

Yes, my point is they DO Not do better with the above.

*now where's the abandon the foster system, bring back boarding schools and orphanages thread?*

You oughta start it: Include the linky to Spartan Children.

 

[mdn2000]

American children are not falling behind, illegal Alien children are bringing test scores down. The children of Latino families are bringing the test scores down. At least this is the case in California.

As distastefully racist as this sounds, let's just IMAGINE that its true.

If true, then it would be ridiculous to blame Public Educators for lower educational achievement scores.

Racist, coming from me impossible, I will be sure to tell my Negro wife and children. I will also have to go into Mexico, into my the homes of my Mexican friends and tell them as well, I will have to tell the illegal aliens I have worked side by side with, who I have ate with, who I have drank with.

My comment does not sound racist. Its simply fact, given its fact its very important to discuss how else will we improve the education of these children.

See despite the pre-conceived prejudice you taint conservative comments with not everyone is how you see them.

Treating every child the same when it comes to education is not good. The culture and education of the parents is extremely important, illegal alien children are at a disadvantage for many reasons, I am not an expert on this but I do know what I see and of whom I speak.

Illegal alien children are at an extreme disadvantage just understanding English. I know the difficulties for I have experienced them myself, English was a terrible subject for me, falling behind versus starting behind is a huge difference.

Its not fair to the illegal alien children to pretend school is not much more difficult for them.

No matter the cause or the handicap of the children a teachers is only there to teach. The measure of success of a teacher is the child learning.

If the child fails to learn, the teacher failed to teach.

In the case of Los Angeles teachers failing to teach the children, maybe the failure starts because of attitudes just like Samson's.

 

[editec]

If the teachers unions are to blame, why is it that the states with ther BEST education are alos the MOST unionized, and the states with the least unionized teachers are also providing the WORST educational experience?

That rather flies in the face of the premise that unions are to blame, doesn't it?

The basis for this claim that unions equate to higher education seems to be rooted in unions keeping down class size through contract terms.

No, the basis for that claim is based on test results that occur in the schools, number of graduates, students who continue on to college.

If outcomes matter, then blaming unions for outcomes is foolish.

The most unionized states ALSO produce the best EDUCATIONAL OUTCOMES.

While that may have some truth to it, my guess is, less expensive teachers would also make for even smaller class size.

Your guess?

Also, the lack of protection of poor teachers without unions would increase learning.

I think you and I are being fed a bill of goods. Getting rid of teachers, even tenured teachers is fairly easy to do.

No profession has LESS job security than public school teachers.

None.

Unions have also blocked programs like vouchers and charter schools, which may very well encourage better learning.

Have they?

Do you know that teachers unions have also STARTED charter schools?

I'm guessing not. You are a victim of propaganda, amigo.

Hey, I don't blame you for being misinformed. You're the victim of a concerted propaganda campaign designed to crush unions and basically to set us up to defund public schools for the working classes while the rich get to avoid paying for public schools

The lies that are being passed off to the public about teachers and schools and tenure are freaking amazing.

But let me ask you again.

How do you explain your character assassination of teachers unions when the states where teachers unions are most powerful ALSO produce the best educational outcomes?

TRY to put aside your antiunion prejudice for a moment and look at this usse without that bias.

Practically everything these right wing think tanks have told you and I about education isn't only wrong, it's the opposite of the truth.