Why 2nd Amendment supporters who support mandatory training are wrong….

[Dadoalex]

Gun control which violates the constitution is not reasonable.
It really is that simple.

Mindless nonsense.
It really is that simple.

What we're discussing doesn't violate the 2nd so go somewhere with you mindless NRA drivel.

 

[Dadoalex]

You want the standards to be like NYC, which is basically lets make it so hard to get any type of permit people give up.

Stop lying.

You're lying.
Show me one place where I said anything like that?
LIAR.

 

[M14 Shooter]

What we're discussing doesn't violate the 2nd

Your statement, above, is a bald-faced lie, typical of your ilk.

 

[SavannahMann]

75 feet is way beyond what is considered legal self defense distance...if you are engaging someone that far out, you are more than likely going to be arrested.

If you can hit the target at 75 feet you can absolutely hit the same sized target at fifteen. Especially while you have Adrenaline pumping into your system.

I watched a video that had me laughing my ass off. A guy who has a lot of shooting videos up. Almost all of them are him doing your combat shooting drills. Draw and fire. Close range target.

What made me laugh was he was going to challenge himself. He was going to shoot a Coke can at fifty yards. It took him four rounds to hit the can. The misses were not even close.

By comparison, I was taught the pistol by a member of the US Army pistol team. I was trying out for the 82nd Airborne Division Competition. FWIW I passed the Battalion and was eliminated at the Brigade competition.

The man who showed me how to shoot had fired a possible more than once. Fifty round match. Score is determined by the rings. A bullseye is ten points. So the maximum possible score you can get is 500 points. He did that more than once at fifty yards.

Hitting the target, not the ten ring, two times out of three at 25 yards slow fire not timed, is not expert shooting qualification nonsense. It is it is not even the minimum score for Army Qualification. It is barely passable for any shooter.

It merely shows that you have basic eye hand coordination and basic knowledge of the firearm and how to shoot.

At five or even seven yards. That is training the shooter to spray and pray. Start firing and hope you hit the guy with at least one of the rounds. If you do that you will probably hit the baddie. You will almost certainly hit other things, and people too. You are responsible for where those bullets go.

As for not being able to shoot at someone that far away. Ok. I’m at home minding my own business. A car load of MAGA terrorists pulls up. I’m in my yard and they start spraying with their tricked out AR’s. I pull my .357 and return fire from behind a tree. I don’t think the cops are going to have a problem with that.

Don’t like that scenario? I’m in town and see a lunatic wearing his MAGA hat shooting a shopkeeper for flying a Rainbow flag outside her business. In the probably futile hope of saving her life I open fire on the maddened Radical at a distance of thirty yards. Again. I don’t think the cops will have too much of an issue. My Attorney from USCCA will be able to explain to the DA and cops that I acted to save a life from a lunatic RW Terrorist.

 

[martybegan]

You're lying.
Show me one place where I said anything like that?
LIAR.

That's what all the lefties want.

In NYC just to keep a revolver in your home or apartment, it takes 3-6 months of paperwork and up to $600 in fees.

That isn't even concealed carry.

Is that infringement or not?

 

[Foxfyre]

75 feet is way beyond what is considered legal self defense distance...if you are engaging someone that far out, you are more than likely going to be arrested.

I have to agree with this. That might be a good test for a marksmanship medal in the military but for civilian use, almost all situations in which a gun is necessary would be at much closer range. Gun safety practices should be the most important criteria. However the criteria for handgun accuracy is five accurate shots at 25 yards and I think it a good idea to encourage hand gun users to aspire to that goal at a public firing range or other safe target practice. (In my opinion few will achieve it though and it by no means should be mandatory.)

 

[Dadoalex]

We already have thousands of reasonable gun control laws but I hope you'll agree that criminals, by definition, do not obey laws.

What are some new laws you have in mind?

Thanks,

Wrong.

What we have is a mish mash of crap regulations that disappear as soon as you cross the state line.
To be effective regulation must be nation in scope.
Seen any mass murders using Thompsons? How about howitzers?
See, nationwide regulation works.

The thread concerns training.
Your attempt to go off topic is recognized and rejected.

 

[M14 Shooter]

Seen any mass murders using Thompsons? How about howitzers?
See, nationwide regulation works.

Fallacy: Post hoc ergo propter hoc

 

[Zincwarrior]

There are several 2nd Amendment supporters here on U.S.message board who support the mandatory training to own and/or carry a gun. They smugly state they don’t mind the democrat tactic because they can pass the test so everyone should pass the test or be denied their Constitutional Right. They refuse to understand that allowing the democrats to require mandatory tests is giving the democrats the ability to deny access to guns for normal people through arbitrary, impossible testing standards……standards that will be created with the intent to keep people from owning and carrying guns ……

Until very recently, Texas had a mandatory test. Are you saying that was a democratic tactic?

Here's an idea. Reinstate the civics course in high school. As part of that take a day and discuss the actual Texas laws concerning self defense.

 

[2aguy]

Until very recently, Texas had a mandatory test. Are you saying that was a democratic tactic?

Yes. There are a lot of democrats in Texas.....and gullible republicans who go along with their stupidity ....

 

[2aguy]

I have to agree with this. That might be a good test for a marksmanship medal in the military but for civilian use, almost all situations in which a gun is necessary would be at much closer range. Gun safety practices should be the most important criteria. However the criteria for handgun accuracy is five accurate shots at 25 yards and I think it a good idea to encourage hand gun users to aspire to that goal at a public firing range or other safe target practice. (In my opinion few will achieve it though and it by no means should be mandatory.)

Encourage? Sure. Mandate? no.

 

[Zincwarrior]

Yes. There are a lot of democrats in Texas.....and gullible republicans who go along with their stupidity ....

It was put in place by a Republican legislature and Republican governor...dood.

Personally, my issue it not firearms but what is legal self defense. Shooting someone through a door is not legal self defense. Also they need to take an hour to discuss how to properly act during a police stop.

 

[2aguy]

If you can hit the target at 75 feet you can absolutely hit the same sized target at fifteen. Especially while you have Adrenaline pumping into your system.

I watched a video that had me laughing my ass off. A guy who has a lot of shooting videos up. Almost all of them are him doing your combat shooting drills. Draw and fire. Close range target.

What made me laugh was he was going to challenge himself. He was going to shoot a Coke can at fifty yards. It took him four rounds to hit the can. The misses were not even close.

By comparison, I was taught the pistol by a member of the US Army pistol team. I was trying out for the 82nd Airborne Division Competition. FWIW I passed the Battalion and was eliminated at the Brigade competition.

The man who showed me how to shoot had fired a possible more than once. Fifty round match. Score is determined by the rings. A bullseye is ten points. So the maximum possible score you can get is 500 points. He did that more than once at fifty yards.

Hitting the target, not the ten ring, two times out of three at 25 yards slow fire not timed, is not expert shooting qualification nonsense. It is it is not even the minimum score for Army Qualification. It is barely passable for any shooter.

It merely shows that you have basic eye hand coordination and basic knowledge of the firearm and how to shoot.

At five or even seven yards. That is training the shooter to spray and pray. Start firing and hope you hit the guy with at least one of the rounds. If you do that you will probably hit the baddie. You will almost certainly hit other things, and people too. You are responsible for where those bullets go.

As for not being able to shoot at someone that far away. Ok. I’m at home minding my own business. A car load of MAGA terrorists pulls up. I’m in my yard and they start spraying with their tricked out AR’s. I pull my .357 and return fire from behind a tree. I don’t think the cops are going to have a problem with that.

Don’t like that scenario? I’m in town and see a lunatic wearing his MAGA hat shooting a shopkeeper for flying a Rainbow flag outside her business. In the probably futile hope of saving her life I open fire on the maddened Radical at a distance of thirty yards. Again. I don’t think the cops will have too much of an issue. My Attorney from USCCA will be able to explain to the DA and cops that I acted to save a life from a lunatic RW Terrorist.

You won't see a maga person shooting them....you have seen left wing, democrat party, transgenders murdering school children......

Maga terrorists?

No.

We did see democrat party brownshirts....blm and antifa, burn, loot and murder in our major cities for an entire year, while the democrat party mayors of those cities told the police to stand down....

Any mandated training is simply a way to deny people a Right......

You apparently enjoyed the Literacy Tests democrats used for voting too....right?

 

[Foxfyre]

Great idea! Why don't you pay to have the PSAs made and then pay the media to show them? Don't waste my tax dollars on that bullshit!

Given the low but real incidents of accidental gun shootings, I don't think PSAs are a bad idea. It wasn't that long ago that we had a free and mostly honorable media that ran useful informative PSAs for free as a public service. They don't need to be long drawn out things, just maybe 10 second reminders of safety rules and what the law is.

I would think it reasonable for PSAs to include the fact that a state has a stand your ground law that helps protect property owners. That would likely deter a lot of would be thieves and robbers.

Every state should have a stand your ground law and store owners would benefit from training in the ways the law protects them and when it would not protect them.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

Given the low but real incidents of accidental gun shootings, I don't think PSAs are a bad idea. It wasn't that long ago that we had a free and mostly honorable media that ran useful informative PSAs for free as a public service. They don't need to be long drawn out things, just maybe 10 second reminders of safety rules and what the law is.

I would think it reasonable for PSAs to include the fact that a state has a stand your ground law that helps protect property owners. That would likely deter a lot of would be thieves and robbers.

Every state should have a stand your ground law and store owners would benefit from training in the ways the law protects them and when it would not protect them.

As I said, you can get right on that by creating the PSAs and having them made by the media. Don't waste my tax dollars or the medias income.

 

[Cellblock2429]

There are several 2nd Amendment supporters here on U.S.message board who support the mandatory training to own and/or carry a gun. They smugly state they don’t mind the democrat tactic because they can pass the test so everyone should pass the test or be denied their Constitutional Right. They refuse to understand that allowing the democrats to require mandatory tests is giving the democrats the ability to deny access to guns for normal people through arbitrary, impossible testing standards……standards that will be created with the intent to keep people from owning and carrying guns ……

New Jersey mandatory training shows how they will do this….

Twenty-five yards is also a totally unrealistic test for civilian concealed carry. While there are certainly a few incredible exceptions, most justifiable deadly-force encounters involving civilians occur at much closer ranges, usually within spitting distance.

Open carry holster​

This qualification course is designed to use an open-carry holster, worn either outside or inside the waistband. However, only law enforcement officers can openly carry handguns in New Jersey. Civilians must carry their defensive firearms concealed.
————
Like drawing from the holster, most private ranges don’t allow their customers to practice from the kneeling position. One range I know that did quickly abandoned the practice after a customer positioned their target too close and put five rounds into the ceiling.

Additionally, there are many shooters who can’t kneel because they suffer mobility issues or use a wheelchair. Will they be denied their Second Amendment rights because of their disability?

Forcing applicants to kneel violates the Americans with Disabilities Act, which requires “state and local governments including their criminal justice agencies to comply with the ADA.”

New Jersey’s AG and its state police should be ashamed of their “ableist” misdeeds.
———
What’s not laughable is that anti-gun elected officials have come up with yet another way to infringe upon the Second Amendment by reworking an antiquated police qualification course and making it mandatory for anyone who wants to exercise their right to carry a gun New Jersey has erected an unconstitutionally high hurdle for the average person to clear to qualify for a carry permit.

Let's Take a Look at New Jersey's New 'John Wick' Concealed Carry Permit Qualifying Standards - The Truth About Guns

By Lee Williams After the U.S. Supreme Court issued its historic Bruen decision, which obliterated most state restrictions on the public carrying of arms and changed forever how lower courts should decide Second Amendment-related challenges to anti-gun regulations, many blue states seemingly...

www.thetruthaboutguns.com

After the Republican Party defeated the democrat party in the Civil War, the democrats were forced to free black slaves……to keep their former black slaves from being able to vote, the democrat party created “literacy tests.” The democrats had made it illegal for their black slaves to learn to read so the democrats knew that freed blacks would not be able to pass their tests….and would lose their
Right to vote…..,

These arbitrary and impossible test standards are simply the new literacy tests of the democrat party……and they are hoping to take back the Senate so that if Biden wins, they can replace Thomas and Alito and make tests like these and other anti-guns laws permanent…

/——/ And democRATs in NY are slow walking carry permits they wait and wait and wait. Same with testing- 2 years waiting list, ooopsie another Covid outbreak — testing is suspended indefinitely… Sorrrrrie.

 

[Foxfyre]

As I said, you can get right on that by creating the PSAs and having them made by the media. Don't waste my tax dollars or the medias income.

Anybody who knows me knows I am a small government, maximum individual liberty, constitutional appreciator/preacher/teacher. But we cannot have that without necessary laws, as close universal compliance with those laws as possible, and ability to enforce those laws.

I see informative and possibly life saving PSAs as a legitimate function of a government constitutionally authorized and mandated to promote the general welfare. That would be EVERYBODY'S welfare and not just special or targeted groups. And that could certainly include information on gun laws and safety that are in the national interest.

Perhaps we can amicably agree to disagree on that?

 

[M14 Shooter]

/——/ And democRATs in NY are slow walking carry permits they wait and wait and wait. Same with testing- 2 years waiting list, ooopsie another Covid outbreak — testing is suspended indefinitely… Sorrrrrie.

I know this will surprise you, but...

Anti-gun trogs hate the right to keep and bear arms, and will do everything in their power to make it as hard as possible for the law abiding to exercise it.
They don't care about rights, the law abiding, or the constitution -- they just hate the right to keep and bear arms.

 

[Dadoalex]

Your statement, above, is a bald-faced lie, typical of your ilk.

Your statement above displays a remarkable level of ignorance, typical of your ilk.

 

[Dadoalex]

That's what all the lefties want.

In NYC just to keep a revolver in your home or apartment, it takes 3-6 months of paperwork and up to $600 in fees.

That isn't even concealed carry.

Is that infringement or not?

So you admit you lied.

OK.