Who's stupid now?

[Quantum Windbag]

Gates caller didn’t cite race, police say - The Boston Globe

Your post said she lived in the neighborhood, she does not. If you want to argue semantics because she actually works on the campus near his home, and claim that it is actually his neighborhood, I cannot prove you wrong. That does not negate the fact that [] was passing by when she called in.

Someone else posted that.


Get your facts straight! Looks like YOU who wants to argue semantics!

Apologies, I should check who I am responding to and not assume it is the same person. On the other hand, if I were perfect I would be God, and I would just smite anyone who argued with me. (Which makes it a good thing that I am not God.)

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Nobody pushed him out on that porch, the police were leaving and he clearly knew exactly what he was doing as he dramatically drew the attention of his neighbors and loudly and falsely incited racist charges toward the officer causing a public disturbance which certainly warranted a trip downtown to file some paperwork...It was actually the smart thing for the police to do at that point, IMO.

What happened to your previous story that Crowley was perfectly justified in asking Gates to step outside because he had to be sure no one had him under duress? Kinda falls apart when you actually look at the situation, instead of listening to police defend each other, doesn't it?

Believe it or not, Gates has a legal right to make a fool of himself and falsely accuse anyone, including a police officer who is standing in his living room questioning him, of being a racist. I am not saying Gates is right, I am saying Crowley is wrong, he should simply have walked away from this when he knew Gates actually lived in the house. That would have been the professional thing for him to do.

No, that was the beginning when he first got to the door.

Crowley was inside the he told Gates if he wanted to ask him more questions he should step outside.

 

[Valerie]

What happened to your previous story that Crowley was perfectly justified in asking Gates to step outside because he had to be sure no one had him under duress? Kinda falls apart when you actually look at the situation, instead of listening to police defend each other, doesn't it?

Believe it or not, Gates has a legal right to make a fool of himself and falsely accuse anyone, including a police officer who is standing in his living room questioning him, of being a racist. I am not saying Gates is right, I am saying Crowley is wrong, he should simply have walked away from this when he knew Gates actually lived in the house. That would have been the professional thing for him to do.

No, that was the beginning when he first got to the door.

Crowley was inside then he told Gates if he wanted to ask him more questions he should step outside.

That was at the end.

Read the police report...I posted a link and an excerpt this morning.

 

[ConHog]

Gates was in fact guilty of disturbing the peace. The fact that he was released and not charged does not negate his guilt.

Straight from the Mass law books

DISTURBING THE PEACE
The defendant is charged with disturbing the peace. In order to prove
the defendant guilty of this offense, the Commonwealth must prove three
things beyond a reasonable doubt:
First: That the defendant engaged in conduct which most people
would find to be unreasonably disruptive, such as (making loud and
disturbing noise) (tumultuous or offensive conduct) (hurling objects in a
populated area) (threatening, quarreling, fighting, or challenging others to
fight) (uttering personal insults that amount to fighting words, that is, are
so offensive that they are inherently likely to provoke an immediate violent
reaction);
Second: That the defendant’s actions were done intentionally, and
not by accident or mistake; and
Third: That the defendant did in fact annoy or disturb at least one
person.
To amount to disturbing the peace, the defendant’s acts must have
been voluntary, unnecessary, and contrary to normal standards of conduct.
You should consider all the circumstances, including such important
Instruction 7.200 Page 2
DISTURBING THE PEACE 2009 Edition
factors as time and location, in determining whether the defendant
disturbed the tranquility of at least one person in that area, or interfered
with at least one person’s normal activity.


http://www.mass.gov/courts/courtsan...ns/criminal/pdf/7200-disturbing-the-peace.pdf

 

[Care4all]

Gates was in fact guilty of disturbing the peace. The fact that he was released and not charged does not negate his guilt.

Straight from the Mass law books

DISTURBING THE PEACE
The defendant is charged with disturbing the peace. In order to prove
the defendant guilty of this offense, the Commonwealth must prove three
things beyond a reasonable doubt:
First: That the defendant engaged in conduct which most people
would find to be unreasonably disruptive, such as (making loud and
disturbing noise) (tumultuous or offensive conduct) (hurling objects in a
populated area) (threatening, quarreling, fighting, or challenging others to
fight) (uttering personal insults that amount to fighting words, that is, are
so offensive that they are inherently likely to provoke an immediate violent
reaction);
Second: That the defendant’s actions were done intentionally, and
not by accident or mistake; and
Third: That the defendant did in fact annoy or disturb at least one
person.
To amount to disturbing the peace, the defendant’s acts must have
been voluntary, unnecessary, and contrary to normal standards of conduct.
You should consider all the circumstances, including such important
Instruction 7.200 Page 2
DISTURBING THE PEACE 2009 Edition
factors as time and location, in determining whether the defendant
disturbed the tranquility of at least one person in that area, or interfered
with at least one person’s normal activity.


http://www.mass.gov/courts/courtsan...ns/criminal/pdf/7200-disturbing-the-peace.pdf

conhog....he was NOT charged with disturbing the peace oh wise one!

he was charged/arrested for Disorderly Conduct dear.

 

[Againsheila]

He was not invited to step outside because of department policy, he was asked to step outside so that Crowley would have an excuse to arrest him.

Nobody pushed him out on that porch, the police were leaving and he clearly knew exactly what he was doing as he dramatically drew the attention of his neighbors and loudly and falsely incited racist charges toward the officer causing a public disturbance which certainly warranted a trip downtown to file some paperwork...It was actually the smart thing for the police to do at that point, IMO.

What happened to your previous story that Crowley was perfectly justified in asking Gates to step outside because he had to be sure no one had him under duress? Kinda falls apart when you actually look at the situation, instead of listening to police defend each other, doesn't it?

Believe it or not, Gates has a legal right to make a fool of himself and falsely accuse anyone, including a police officer who is standing in his living room questioning him, of being a racist. I am not saying Gates is right, I am saying Crowley is wrong, he should simply have walked away from this when he knew Gates actually lived in the house. That would have been the professional thing for him to do.

Crowley did walk away, as soon as he was satisfied that Gates lived there. Gates followed him out of the house, hurling epithets as he went. The cop, had no choice, once Gates left the porch, but to arrest him and put him in jail until he calmed down. Otherwise he would have been leaving a man not in full charge of his faculties alone. Gates was way out of bounds. Having calmed down, the charges were dropped and he was sent home, as should have happened.

You do not leave a man that angry standing in his yard yelling at the cops and everyone that walks by. Now, you might have a point that they could have called a counselor to come and calm down Gates but I think the arrest did it all by itself, why waste more of our tax money?

What's scary is that a professor at one of our most prestigious universities can so quickly lose control when he is suppose to be training the best of our young. IMO, after this incident, he should be fired. I do know that if my child was attending that college, I would advise that he avoid that man's classes as best he could.

 

[ConHog]

Gates was in fact guilty of disturbing the peace. The fact that he was released and not charged does not negate his guilt.

Straight from the Mass law books

DISTURBING THE PEACE
The defendant is charged with disturbing the peace. In order to prove
the defendant guilty of this offense, the Commonwealth must prove three
things beyond a reasonable doubt:
First: That the defendant engaged in conduct which most people
would find to be unreasonably disruptive, such as (making loud and
disturbing noise) (tumultuous or offensive conduct) (hurling objects in a
populated area) (threatening, quarreling, fighting, or challenging others to
fight) (uttering personal insults that amount to fighting words, that is, are
so offensive that they are inherently likely to provoke an immediate violent
reaction);
Second: That the defendant’s actions were done intentionally, and
not by accident or mistake; and
Third: That the defendant did in fact annoy or disturb at least one
person.
To amount to disturbing the peace, the defendant’s acts must have
been voluntary, unnecessary, and contrary to normal standards of conduct.
You should consider all the circumstances, including such important
Instruction 7.200 Page 2
DISTURBING THE PEACE 2009 Edition
factors as time and location, in determining whether the defendant
disturbed the tranquility of at least one person in that area, or interfered
with at least one person’s normal activity.


http://www.mass.gov/courts/courtsan...ns/criminal/pdf/7200-disturbing-the-peace.pdf

conhog....he was NOT charged with disturbing the peace oh wise one!

he was charged/arrested for Disorderly Conduct dear.

Disorderly conduct; classification

A. A person commits disorderly conduct if, with intent to disturb the peace or quiet of a neighborhood, family or person, or with knowledge of doing so, such person:

3. Uses abusive or offensive language or gestures to any person present in a manner likely to provoke immediate physical retaliation by such person; or

B. Disorderly conduct under subsection A, paragraph 6 is a class 6 felony. Disorderly conduct under subsection A, paragraph 1, 2, 3, 4 or 5 is a class 1 misdemeanor.


disturbing the peace essentially = a form of disorderly conduct DEAR.

 

[Care4all]

Valerie is right, when Crowley first got to the house of Gates, he asked him if he would step outside, and Gates said no, crowley proceeded to enter the home of mr gates, I believe because Mr Gates gave him permission to enter. Crowley KNEW within the first couple of minutes being there....or at least presumed within the first few minutes of being there, that Mr Gates was indeed the owner/renter of the home where the suspicious activity was reported. that was his police instinct judgment...probably because Gates immediately found the phone in the house and called someone...the head of the school he worked at if memory serves.

what quantum is speaking about, is when Crowley refused for the second time(might have been the third time) to give mr Gates his Police Id (massachusetts gives all police, a State Police ID to show when asked...this is not their Badge, it is a separate Police ID that they are suppose to carry with them), he told Mr Gates if he wanted the Police ID/ information from him then he would need to follow him out on to the porch for it.

(I still have huge problems with Crowley telling gates if he wanted his police id, he would have to step out on to the porch for it, especially if mr gates was tumultuous....because Crowley would have been inviting a bad situation to get worse not better.... the supposed tumultuous behavior could have cause harm to others, to innocent bystanders, IF IT REALLY WAS "tumultuous".)

Crowley had given mr gates verbally his name and number, but he had not given Gates his Police ID to look at, per massachusetts requirement....so Mr gates stepped outside as Crowley HAD ASKED HIM TO, so that he could get this police ID from Crowley.

Massachusetts supreme court had ruled on previous cases, that yelling and screaming at a cop is NOT DISORDERLY CONDUCT, because cops receive training on how to deal with these type of situations and are trained NOT TO over react to the screaming and yelling, and cursing and accusations and tizzy fits, moreso than an average citizen that could be enticed to start a fight.... there has to be a physical public involvement or a threat of physical harm to the Public.....none of which was the case.

I personally still believe Crowley made a mistake to invite mr gates to come out on to the porch, or it could be that he did do this intentionally as others have said, so that he could charge this man with something.

I find GREAT OFFENSE with the latter if true. It would be an abuse of power that Mr Gate's taxes is paying for....the cops salary....cops work for us and get paid by us and should give reverence to such when they can and NOT arrest us and charge us with crimes unnecessarily....that is NOT JUSTICE.

so, I hope it was just crowley being tired that lead him to inviting gates on to the porch and NOT the situation I stated above, where he INTENTIONALLY did such just because he wanted to have the sob arrested for being an idiot and calling him a racist....

regardless, if this case went to court, the State would have lost, from all the court cases I have been lead to read, about this and disorderly conduct imo.

there are many articles out there also, saying that cops use these laws such as disorderly conduct or disturbing the peace as their "tool" to break up a situation or because they are mad , but they rarely stand up in a court of law...they actually get the charges dropped a good deal of the time....and I am not certain I like that....it doesn't seem right to arrest someone that you KNOW did NOT break the law....just because of the first amendment free speech they are exercising.

another thing, by law and our constitution, we are not required to give id to a Policeman if he asks us for it...we do not have to have any id at all, to live in this country and it is NOT required to carry id with us at all times like in Nazi Germany, no one here can require our "Papers"....

we are only required to give the Policeman our name and perhaps our address and the Policeman can call that in to check on us via their computer files.

 

[del]

the person who called in to the police and later changed her story, IIRC, works for harvard. hmmmm, no way she was pressured i bet.

Maybe you can get someone in the eots zone to expound on that.

no need to, i've got you, babe.

 

[Againsheila]

Valerie is right, when Crowley first got to the house of Gates, he asked him if he would step outside, and Gates said no, crowley proceeded to enter the home of mr gates, I believe because Mr Gates gave him permission to enter. Crowley KNEW within the first couple of minutes being there....or at least presumed within the first few minutes of being there, that Mr Gates was indeed the owner/renter of the home where the suspicious activity was reported. that was his police instinct judgment...probably because Gates immediately found the phone in the house and called someone...the head of the school he worked at if memory serves.

what quantum is speaking about, is when Crowley refused for the second time(might have been the third time) to give mr Gates his Police Id (massachusetts gives all police, a State Police ID to show when asked...this is not their Badge, it is a separate Police ID that they are suppose to carry with them), he told Mr Gates if he wanted the Police ID/ information from him then he would need to follow him out on to the porch for it.

(I still have huge problems with Crowley telling gates if he wanted his police id, he would have to step out on to the porch for it, especially if mr gates was tumultuous....because Crowley would have been inviting a bad situation to get worse not better.... the supposed tumultuous behavior could have cause harm to others, to innocent bystanders, IF IT REALLY WAS "tumultuous".)

Crowley had given mr gates verbally his name and number, but he had not given Gates his Police ID to look at, per massachusetts requirement....so Mr gates stepped outside as Crowley HAD ASKED HIM TO, so that he could get this police ID from Crowley.

Massachusetts supreme court had ruled on previous cases, that yelling and screaming at a cop is NOT DISORDERLY CONDUCT, because cops receive training on how to deal with these type of situations and are trained NOT TO over react to the screaming and yelling, and cursing and accusations and tizzy fits, moreso than an average citizen that could be enticed to start a fight.... there has to be a physical public involvement or a threat of physical harm to the Public.....none of which was the case.

I personally still believe Crowley made a mistake to invite mr gates to come out on to the porch, or it could be that he did do this intentionally as others have said, so that he could charge this man with something.

I find GREAT OFFENSE with the latter if true. It would be an abuse of power that Mr Gate's taxes is paying for....the cops salary....cops work for us and get paid by us and should give reverence to such when they can and NOT arrest us and charge us with crimes unnecessarily....that is NOT JUSTICE.

so, I hope it was just crowley being tired that lead him to inviting gates on to the porch and NOT the situation I stated above, where he INTENTIONALLY did such just because he wanted to have the sob arrested for being an idiot and calling him a racist....

regardless, if this case went to court, the State would have lost, from all the court cases I have been lead to read, about this and disorderly conduct imo.

there are many articles out there also, saying that cops use these laws such as disorderly conduct or disturbing the peace as their "tool" to break up a situation or because they are mad , but they rarely stand up in a court of law...they actually get the charges dropped a good deal of the time....and I am not certain I like that....it doesn't seem right to arrest someone that you KNOW did NOT break the law....just because of the first amendment free speech they are exercising.

another thing, by law and our constitution, we are not required to give id to a Policeman if he asks us for it...we do not have to have any id at all, to live in this country and it is NOT required to carry id with us at all times like in Nazi Germany, no one here can require our "Papers"....

we are only required to give the Policeman our name and perhaps our address and the Policeman can call that in to check on us via their computer files.

Trust me, if this arrest was unwarranted, Gates would be suing the ass off of the cops. He knows he would lose because he was in the wrong.

Like I said, what's really scary is that this guy is suppose to be training the best of our young people couldn't even contain himself long enough to answer perfectly reasonable questions by cops called to the home because someone saw him BREAK INTO said home.

Yeah, he was having a bad day, but someone in his position is suppose to better than that when it comes to having a bad day.

 

[Care4all]

the person who called in to the police and later changed her story, IIRC, works for harvard. hmmmm, no way she was pressured i bet.

Maybe you can get someone in the eots zone to expound on that.

no need to, i've got you, babe.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uzYBuKaQ83s]YouTube - Sonny And Cher - I Got You Babe[/ame]

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Crowley did walk away, as soon as he was satisfied that Gates lived there. Gates followed him out of the house, hurling epithets as he went. The cop, had no choice, once Gates left the porch, but to arrest him and put him in jail until he calmed down. Otherwise he would have been leaving a man not in full charge of his faculties alone. Gates was way out of bounds. Having calmed down, the charges were dropped and he was sent home, as should have happened.

You do not leave a man that angry standing in his yard yelling at the cops and everyone that walks by. Now, you might have a point that they could have called a counselor to come and calm down Gates but I think the arrest did it all by itself, why waste more of our tax money?

What's scary is that a professor at one of our most prestigious universities can so quickly lose control when he is suppose to be training the best of our young. IMO, after this incident, he should be fired. I do know that if my child was attending that college, I would advise that he avoid that man's classes as best he could.

Sure he did.

Did Gates pull a gun? Did he have a knife? Did he threaten anyone? Did any of the witnesses complain about his conduct? The only reason he was arrested is he had contempt of cop, which is not a crime, unless statists like you get their way that is.

 

[del]

Crowley did walk away, as soon as he was satisfied that Gates lived there. Gates followed him out of the house, hurling epithets as he went. The cop, had no choice, once Gates left the porch, but to arrest him and put him in jail until he calmed down. Otherwise he would have been leaving a man not in full charge of his faculties alone. Gates was way out of bounds. Having calmed down, the charges were dropped and he was sent home, as should have happened.

You do not leave a man that angry standing in his yard yelling at the cops and everyone that walks by. Now, you might have a point that they could have called a counselor to come and calm down Gates but I think the arrest did it all by itself, why waste more of our tax money?

What's scary is that a professor at one of our most prestigious universities can so quickly lose control when he is suppose to be training the best of our young. IMO, after this incident, he should be fired. I do know that if my child was attending that college, I would advise that he avoid that man's classes as best he could.

Sure he did.

Did Gates pull a gun? Did he have a knife? Did he threaten anyone? Did any of the witnesses complain about his conduct? The only reason he was arrested is he had contempt of cop, which is not a crime, unless statists like you get their way that is.

do you think you become more convincing through repetition?

 

[ConHog]

Crowley did walk away, as soon as he was satisfied that Gates lived there. Gates followed him out of the house, hurling epithets as he went. The cop, had no choice, once Gates left the porch, but to arrest him and put him in jail until he calmed down. Otherwise he would have been leaving a man not in full charge of his faculties alone. Gates was way out of bounds. Having calmed down, the charges were dropped and he was sent home, as should have happened.

You do not leave a man that angry standing in his yard yelling at the cops and everyone that walks by. Now, you might have a point that they could have called a counselor to come and calm down Gates but I think the arrest did it all by itself, why waste more of our tax money?

What's scary is that a professor at one of our most prestigious universities can so quickly lose control when he is suppose to be training the best of our young. IMO, after this incident, he should be fired. I do know that if my child was attending that college, I would advise that he avoid that man's classes as best he could.

Sure he did.

Did Gates pull a gun? Did he have a knife? Did he threaten anyone? Did any of the witnesses complain about his conduct? The only reason he was arrested is he had contempt of cop, which is not a crime, unless statists like you get their way that is.

Read the law, the MASS law, if ONE person is disturbed bam disturbance of the peace, or disorderly conduct if you like. He disturbed Crowley.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Trust me, if this arrest was unwarranted, Gates would be suing the ass off of the cops. He knows he would lose because he was in the wrong.

Like I said, what's really scary is that this guy is suppose to be training the best of our young people couldn't even contain himself long enough to answer perfectly reasonable questions by cops called to the home because someone saw him BREAK INTO said home.

Yeah, he was having a bad day, but someone in his position is suppose to better than that when it comes to having a bad day.

If the case was warranted the charges would not have been dropped. Gates is probably not suing because he was asked not to by his friend Barry, not because he knows he will lose. Most departments would settle a case like this rather than risk losing in court, after all, they don.t really have to pay the settlement.

 

[ConHog]

Trust me, if this arrest was unwarranted, Gates would be suing the ass off of the cops. He knows he would lose because he was in the wrong.

Like I said, what's really scary is that this guy is suppose to be training the best of our young people couldn't even contain himself long enough to answer perfectly reasonable questions by cops called to the home because someone saw him BREAK INTO said home.

Yeah, he was having a bad day, but someone in his position is suppose to better than that when it comes to having a bad day.

If the case was warranted the charges would not have been dropped. Gates is probably not suing because he was asked not to by his friend Barry, not because he knows he will lose. Most departments would settle a case like this rather than risk losing in court, after all, they don.t really have to pay the settlement.

cases are dropped all the time even though the accused was guilty

 

[Care4all]

Crowley did walk away, as soon as he was satisfied that Gates lived there. Gates followed him out of the house, hurling epithets as he went. The cop, had no choice, once Gates left the porch, but to arrest him and put him in jail until he calmed down. Otherwise he would have been leaving a man not in full charge of his faculties alone. Gates was way out of bounds. Having calmed down, the charges were dropped and he was sent home, as should have happened.

You do not leave a man that angry standing in his yard yelling at the cops and everyone that walks by. Now, you might have a point that they could have called a counselor to come and calm down Gates but I think the arrest did it all by itself, why waste more of our tax money?

What's scary is that a professor at one of our most prestigious universities can so quickly lose control when he is suppose to be training the best of our young. IMO, after this incident, he should be fired. I do know that if my child was attending that college, I would advise that he avoid that man's classes as best he could.

Sure he did.

Did Gates pull a gun? Did he have a knife? Did he threaten anyone? Did any of the witnesses complain about his conduct? The only reason he was arrested is he had contempt of cop, which is not a crime, unless statists like you get their way that is.

Read the law, the MASS law, if ONE person is disturbed bam disturbance of the peace, or disorderly conduct if you like. He disturbed Crowley.

READ what he was charged with, it was NOT disturbance of the peace. so why do you keep repeating that crap? There IS A DIFFERENCE.

 

[Care4all]

Trust me, if this arrest was unwarranted, Gates would be suing the ass off of the cops. He knows he would lose because he was in the wrong.

Like I said, what's really scary is that this guy is suppose to be training the best of our young people couldn't even contain himself long enough to answer perfectly reasonable questions by cops called to the home because someone saw him BREAK INTO said home.

Yeah, he was having a bad day, but someone in his position is suppose to better than that when it comes to having a bad day.

If the case was warranted the charges would not have been dropped. Gates is probably not suing because he was asked not to by his friend Barry, not because he knows he will lose. Most departments would settle a case like this rather than risk losing in court, after all, they don.t really have to pay the settlement.

cases are dropped all the time even though the accused was guilty

think before you speak.....no one is guilty until they are proven guilty beyond a reasonable doubt, in a court of law...we are presumed innocent in the USA, until proven guilty.

 

[Againsheila]

If the case was warranted the charges would not have been dropped. Gates is probably not suing because he was asked not to by his friend Barry, not because he knows he will lose. Most departments would settle a case like this rather than risk losing in court, after all, they don.t really have to pay the settlement.

cases are dropped all the time even though the accused was guilty

think before you speak.....no one is guilty until they are proven guilty beyond a reasonable doubt, in a court of law...we are presumed innocent in the USA, until proven guilty.

Yeah, and OJ was innocent......

 

[Care4all]

cases are dropped all the time even though the accused was guilty

think before you speak.....no one is guilty until they are proven guilty beyond a reasonable doubt, in a court of law...we are presumed innocent in the USA, until proven guilty.

Yeah, and OJ was innocent......

now what does that have to do with the tea in China?