Who's Afraid of Socialism?
- Thread starter georgephillip
- Start date
You just don't understand. This time it'll be different. This is a kinder, gentler socialism. It's Democratic Socialism! We the people and shit.
Uncensored2008
Libertarian Radical
Do you see how a market that distributes goods and services based solely on the ability to pay will exclude a large percentage of workers from being unable to buy what they produce?
"The stubborn appeal of the libertarian idea persists, despite mountains of evidence that the free market is neither efficient, nor fair, nor free from periodic catastrophe.
The Libertarian Delusion | BillMoyers.com
"In an Adam Smith world, the interplay of supply and demand yields a price that signals producers what to make and investors where to put their capital.
"The more that government interferes with this sublime discipline, the more bureaucrats deflect the market from its true path."
So where's the problem with the market?
You are a troll, and you misrepresent Marx.
Marx never said anything that stupid - you are making shit up and attributing it to others.
georgephillip
Diamond Member
- Thread starter
- #845
Rich Venezuelans are not eating their pets.Now they are all starving and eating their pets, so what did Chavez accomplish?he was loved by the country’s poor and working classes."Maduro's predecessor would be my choice:
How Venezuela went from a rich democracy to a dictatorship on the brink of collapse
"Understanding Maduro requires understanding his predecessor Hugo Chávez, the populist firebrand who served as president of Venezuela from 1999 until his death in 2013 and spearheaded the country’s experiment with socialism.
"Chávez is a legendary figure in Venezuela who transformed the country’s political and economic landscape by nationalizing industries and funneling enormous amounts of government money into social programs.
"Under his rule, Venezuela’s unemployment rate halved, income per capita more than doubled, the poverty rate fell by more than half, education improved, and infant mortality rates declined.
"While he sparked ferocious opposition among the country’s elites and conservatives — who at one point attempted a coup against him — he was loved by the country’s poor and working classes."
They're loving him now, a-hole.
"Venezuela became increasingly politicised, with the debate focusing on the role of President Chavez himself.
"To maintain political support, Mr Chavez expanded his social programmes using the income derived from high oil prices.
"Minimum wages were increased sharply and many Venezuelans were lifted out of poverty.
"Other social indicators, notably literacy, also improved and Mr Chavez and his political movement had little difficulty in defeating an opposition that was deeply divided and unable to adjust to the new Venezuelan realities."
Analysis: How Chavez changed Venezuela
When did Americans love Trump as much, Gringo?
They're getting ready for the next round of US sanctions; how do you suppose their economy would be faring without those Trump-induced handicaps?
Why wealthy Venezuelans are flocking to Spain
Uncensored2008
Libertarian Radical
Doesn't change the fact that you're a fucking liar who makes shit up and attributes it to others.
Hitler never said what you lied that he did.
Marx never said what you lied that he did.
You're just a Nazi pile of shit without a shred of integrity.
danielpalos
Diamond Member
- Banned
- #847
our alleged wars on crime, drugs, and terror are not capitalism; only the right wing, never gets it.
Uncensored2008
Libertarian Radical
It's a bummer that you have literally zero knowledge of history, but in your profession of raping minds I guess you didn't need to.
Lenin didn't end market in 1926 as you ignorantly claim, he introduced market elements in NEP in 1924, introduced moron. This was after the complete disaster of attempting true Communism in St. Petersburg in 1922-23. The slaughter of half the city made it clear that Communism would not and could not work anywhere.
But Lenin was never a true believer anyway, so it was easy for him to abandon Communism.
Stalin was just another Nazi, from day one - just like you.
francoHFW
Diamond Member
Nobody is talking about communism, brainwashed functional moron... Nobody is in favor of communism. We're talking about France Germany Sweden Canada Australia New Zealand etc or we should be. That is the answer and we are lucky in the United States that have the best natural resources the best strategic position and hard workers. But the dumbest voters. The GOP is a disgrace, Robbing the middle class and keeping us from having what every other rich country has living wage Health Care daycare paid parental leave 5-week vacation good infrastructure cheap college and training etc etc. Thanks scumbag GOP and silly dupes like you. How about an ID card to end illegal immigrat ion and taxing the rich their fair share. What a goddamn mess the GOP has made the last 35 years and brainwashed you, ignoramus.
Andylusion
Platinum Member
Rich Venezuelans are not eating their pets.Now they are all starving and eating their pets, so what did Chavez accomplish?he was loved by the country’s poor and working classes."Maduro's predecessor would be my choice:So you're saying we should put someone like Maduro in charge?
How Venezuela went from a rich democracy to a dictatorship on the brink of collapse
"Understanding Maduro requires understanding his predecessor Hugo Chávez, the populist firebrand who served as president of Venezuela from 1999 until his death in 2013 and spearheaded the country’s experiment with socialism.
"Chávez is a legendary figure in Venezuela who transformed the country’s political and economic landscape by nationalizing industries and funneling enormous amounts of government money into social programs.
"Under his rule, Venezuela’s unemployment rate halved, income per capita more than doubled, the poverty rate fell by more than half, education improved, and infant mortality rates declined.
"While he sparked ferocious opposition among the country’s elites and conservatives — who at one point attempted a coup against him — he was loved by the country’s poor and working classes."
They're loving him now, a-hole.
"Venezuela became increasingly politicised, with the debate focusing on the role of President Chavez himself.
"To maintain political support, Mr Chavez expanded his social programmes using the income derived from high oil prices.
"Minimum wages were increased sharply and many Venezuelans were lifted out of poverty.
"Other social indicators, notably literacy, also improved and Mr Chavez and his political movement had little difficulty in defeating an opposition that was deeply divided and unable to adjust to the new Venezuelan realities."
Analysis: How Chavez changed Venezuela
When did Americans love Trump as much, Gringo?
They're getting ready for the next round of US sanctions; how do you suppose their economy would be faring without those Trump-induced handicaps?
Why wealthy Venezuelans are flocking to Spain
Rich Venezuelans are not eating their pets.
Well of course not doofus... We on the right have been saying this since before Ronald Reagan. Rich people do not end up suffering from socialist policies. They either end up in bed with the government, or they end up leaving. Rich from New York and California, leave for lower tax, less socialist states all the time. The rich in France left in droves. The rich in Russia moved to west Europe when Putin was cracking down.
The rich are never going to just stay there, and be hammered by socialists to pay for your dumb programs.
So pointing out the Rich in Venezuela are not eating their pets..... well duh. Of course they are packing up their wealth and their businesses, and leaving for Spain or other countries where they can continue making profits, and growing their business. I have been saying this for almost two decades now.
They're getting ready for the next round of US sanctions; how do you suppose their economy would be faring without those Trump-induced handicaps?
First off... I don't think you have any idea what you are talking about. I am not aware at this time, of blanket sanctions against Venezuela the country. There are sanctions, but they are sanctions against individuals who are acting corruptly on the world market, at the expense of the Venezuelan people.
Venezuela-Related Sanctions
They target specific officials in the Venezuelan government, that are using the power of the government to screw over what little wealth is left in the country, and exporting it into hidden accounts out of the country.
Now I get it..... you being a left-winger, have no problem with left-wingers destroying what is left of the Venezuelan economy, so that the rich elite leftists have money hidden around the globe, so they can escape their left-wing nightmare, and live in luxury while the poor die.
Or maybe you need to shut up about sanctions you clearly know nothing about.
Second.... in general the economy would be better... but not much. As in barely any better. People would still be eating dogs.
How do I know this?
Because even before the sanctions were passed, the economy was dying. Not only that, but the left-wingers destroyed the country, Venezuela was a net exporter of food. They fed half of south America.
Today, they can't even feed themselves. That can't be due to some sort of sanction. No amount of sanctions is going to cause a farmer, to stop being able to farm. What causes a farmer to stop being able to farm, is when the government takes over the farm, and ruins it, or put in place price controls so farmers can't make a living off of their crops. When you do that, you end up with declining production of food across the country, which is exactly what we saw happening all the way back in 2013.
Key Issue in Venezuelan Vote: Food
They reported the harvests of all crops were dropping dramatically over the past decade. So unless you are such a mindless idiot, that you think Trump magically put in place retro-active sanctions that affected Venezuela all during the Obama years, and before that.... I think your argument is crap.
Think about it logically for a second.
If sanctions were the problem, then farmers shouldn't be able to export the food... but they should still be able to produce food. We would expect that stores would be filled with food, that few people could buy, because there would be a lack of jobs... not a lack of food.
Instead we see people lining up with money... but there is no food to buy. That's not a sanction problem... that a socialism problem. Socialism destroyed their economy. Not sanctions.
Last edited:
francoHFW
Diamond Member
I said lenin ran it with elements of capitalism and democracy until 1926, dumbass. All I can say is, political arguments in France make sense and they get somewhere. they have a Communist party and a socialist party and a rightist party and a very rightist party. And they have all the benefits an intelligent voting public get, in the United States we get nothing LOL thank you scumbag GOP and silly idiots like you...
francoHFW
Diamond Member
Venezuela is totally irrelevant and has no lessons for us, super duper. They are a mess and sabotaged by the covert GOP assholes. They are not a first world country we should be comparing ourselves to like France. Where they have a socialist party and the Communist party and they agree totally with me like they do in most countries, depending on how brainwashed they are by the GOP. Americans have the stupidest political arguments ever, and base their votes on who they like and get the best Liars... The GOP has been running a giveaway for the rich and screwing the rest of us for 35 years now. Fox and Rush is the worst propaganda machine in the modern worldRich Venezuelans are not eating their pets.Now they are all starving and eating their pets, so what did Chavez accomplish?
"Venezuela became increasingly politicised, with the debate focusing on the role of President Chavez himself.
"To maintain political support, Mr Chavez expanded his social programmes using the income derived from high oil prices.
"Minimum wages were increased sharply and many Venezuelans were lifted out of poverty.
"Other social indicators, notably literacy, also improved and Mr Chavez and his political movement had little difficulty in defeating an opposition that was deeply divided and unable to adjust to the new Venezuelan realities."
Analysis: How Chavez changed Venezuela
When did Americans love Trump as much, Gringo?
They're getting ready for the next round of US sanctions; how do you suppose their economy would be faring without those Trump-induced handicaps?
Why wealthy Venezuelans are flocking to Spain
Rich Venezuelans are not eating their pets.
Well of course not doofus... We on the right have been saying this since before Ronald Reagan. Rich people do not end up suffering from socialist policies. They either end up in bed with the government, or they end up leaving. Rich from New York and California, leave for lower tax, less socialist states all the time. The rich in France left in droves. The rich in Russia moved to west Europe when Putin was cracking down.
The rich are never going to just stay there, and be hammered by socialists to pay for your dumb programs.
So pointing out the Rich in Venezuela are not eating their pets..... well duh. Of course they are packing up their wealth and their businesses, and leaving for Spain or other countries where they can continue making profits, and growing their business. I have been saying this for almost two decades now.
They're getting ready for the next round of US sanctions; how do you suppose their economy would be faring without those Trump-induced handicaps?
First off... I don't think you have any idea what you are talking about. I am not aware at this time, of blanket sanctions against Venezuela the country. There are sanctions, but they are sanctions against individuals who are acting corruptly on the world market, at the expense of the Venezuelan people.
Venezuela-Related Sanctions
They target specific officials in the Venezuelan government, that are using the power of the government to screw over what little wealth is left in the country, and exporting it into hidden accounts out of the country.
Now I get it..... you being a left-winger, have no problem with left-wingers destroying what is left of the Venezuelan economy, so that the rich elite leftists have money hidden around the globe, so they can escape their left-wing nightmare, and live in luxury while the poor die.
Or maybe you need to shut up about sanctions you clearly know nothing about.
Second.... in general the economy would be better... but not much. As in barely any better. People would still be eating dogs.
How do I know this?
Because even before the sanctions were passed, the economy was dying. Not only that, but the left-wingers destroyed the country, Venezuela was a net exporter of food. They fed half of south America.
Today, they can't even feed themselves. That can't be due to some sort of sanction. No amount of sanctions is going to cause a farmer, to stop being able to farm. What causes a farmer to stop being able to farm, is when the government takes over the farm, and ruins it, or put in place price controls so farmers can't make a living off of their crops. When you do that, you end up with declining production of food across the country, which is exactly what we saw happening all the way back in 2013.
Key Issue in Venezuelan Vote: Food
They reported the harvests of all crops were dropping dramatically over the past decade. So unless you are such a mindless idiot, that you think Trump magically put in place retro-active sanctions that affected Venezuela all during the Obama years, and before that.... I think your argument is crap.
Think about it logically for a second.
If sanctions were the problem, then farmers shouldn't be able to export the food... but they should still be able to produce food. We would expect that stores would be filled with food, that few people could buy, because there would be a lack of jobs... not a lack of food.
Instead we see people lining up with money... but there is no food to buy. That's not a sanction problem... that a socialism problem. Socialism destroyed their economy. Not sanctions.
. The GOP is a disgrace.
francoHFW
Diamond Member
They were ruined by the George W bush World depression of 2008, dumbass. They are a crap country third world irrelevant and stupid is your propaganda.he was loved by the country’s poor and working classes."Maduro's predecessor would be my choice:
How Venezuela went from a rich democracy to a dictatorship on the brink of collapse
"Understanding Maduro requires understanding his predecessor Hugo Chávez, the populist firebrand who served as president of Venezuela from 1999 until his death in 2013 and spearheaded the country’s experiment with socialism.
"Chávez is a legendary figure in Venezuela who transformed the country’s political and economic landscape by nationalizing industries and funneling enormous amounts of government money into social programs.
"Under his rule, Venezuela’s unemployment rate halved, income per capita more than doubled, the poverty rate fell by more than half, education improved, and infant mortality rates declined.
"While he sparked ferocious opposition among the country’s elites and conservatives — who at one point attempted a coup against him — he was loved by the country’s poor and working classes."
They're loving him now, a-hole.
"Venezuela became increasingly politicised, with the debate focusing on the role of President Chavez himself.
"To maintain political support, Mr Chavez expanded his social programmes using the income derived from high oil prices.
"Minimum wages were increased sharply and many Venezuelans were lifted out of poverty.
"Other social indicators, notably literacy, also improved and Mr Chavez and his political movement had little difficulty in defeating an opposition that was deeply divided and unable to adjust to the new Venezuelan realities."
Analysis: How Chavez changed Venezuela
When did Americans love Trump as much, Gringo?
"Minimum wages were increased sharply and many Venezuelans were lifted out of poverty.
Yep, it was a huge success, as can be seen by the "Venezuela Diet"!
Other social indicators, notably literacy, also improved
What about the indicators, starvation and no toilet paper?
/——/ Holey Mackrel, so much Commie propaganda in one paragraph. Let’s focus on taxing the rich their fair share. How do you define fair? What percentage of taxes should they pay?
MOAR!!!
Toddsterpatriot
Diamond Member
They were ruined by the George W bush World depression of 2008, dumbass. They are a crap country third world irrelevant and stupid is your propaganda.he was loved by the country’s poor and working classes."Maduro's predecessor would be my choice:So you're saying we should put someone like Maduro in charge?
How Venezuela went from a rich democracy to a dictatorship on the brink of collapse
"Understanding Maduro requires understanding his predecessor Hugo Chávez, the populist firebrand who served as president of Venezuela from 1999 until his death in 2013 and spearheaded the country’s experiment with socialism.
"Chávez is a legendary figure in Venezuela who transformed the country’s political and economic landscape by nationalizing industries and funneling enormous amounts of government money into social programs.
"Under his rule, Venezuela’s unemployment rate halved, income per capita more than doubled, the poverty rate fell by more than half, education improved, and infant mortality rates declined.
"While he sparked ferocious opposition among the country’s elites and conservatives — who at one point attempted a coup against him — he was loved by the country’s poor and working classes."
They're loving him now, a-hole.
"Venezuela became increasingly politicised, with the debate focusing on the role of President Chavez himself.
"To maintain political support, Mr Chavez expanded his social programmes using the income derived from high oil prices.
"Minimum wages were increased sharply and many Venezuelans were lifted out of poverty.
"Other social indicators, notably literacy, also improved and Mr Chavez and his political movement had little difficulty in defeating an opposition that was deeply divided and unable to adjust to the new Venezuelan realities."
Analysis: How Chavez changed Venezuela
When did Americans love Trump as much, Gringo?
"Minimum wages were increased sharply and many Venezuelans were lifted out of poverty.
Yep, it was a huge success, as can be seen by the "Venezuela Diet"!
Other social indicators, notably literacy, also improved
What about the indicators, starvation and no toilet paper?
Poor Chavez, forced to loot his country and neglect the oil fields by Clinton's (and Bush's) housing bubble.
This time, socialism was really gonna work. Really. REALLY!!!
danielpalos
Diamond Member
- Banned
- #857
right wing appeals to ignorance are more fearful.
a wall, alleged wars on crime, drugs, and terror are Government solving all problems.
there is no Capitalism in those social polices.
a wall, alleged wars on crime, drugs, and terror are Government solving all problems.
there is no Capitalism in those social polices.
georgephillip
Diamond Member
- Thread starter
- #858
Do you see how a market that distributes goods and services based solely on the ability to pay will exclude a large percentage of workers from being unable to buy what they produce?
"The stubborn appeal of the libertarian idea persists, despite mountains of evidence that the free market is neither efficient, nor fair, nor free from periodic catastrophe.
The Libertarian Delusion | BillMoyers.com
"In an Adam Smith world, the interplay of supply and demand yields a price that signals producers what to make and investors where to put their capital.
"The more that government interferes with this sublime discipline, the more bureaucrats deflect the market from its true path."
So where's the problem with the market?
You are a troll, and you misrepresent Marx.
Marx never said anything that stupid - you are making shit up and attributing it to others.
E. Germain: The Marxist Theory of Imperialism and its Critics (1955)
georgephillip
Diamond Member
- Thread starter
- #859
Toddsterpatriot
Diamond Member
Do you see how a market that distributes goods and services based solely on the ability to pay will exclude a large percentage of workers from being unable to buy what they produce?
"The stubborn appeal of the libertarian idea persists, despite mountains of evidence that the free market is neither efficient, nor fair, nor free from periodic catastrophe.
The Libertarian Delusion | BillMoyers.com
"In an Adam Smith world, the interplay of supply and demand yields a price that signals producers what to make and investors where to put their capital.
"The more that government interferes with this sublime discipline, the more bureaucrats deflect the market from its true path."
So where's the problem with the market?
You are a troll, and you misrepresent Marx.
Marx never said anything that stupid - you are making shit up and attributing it to others.
E. Germain: The Marxist Theory of Imperialism and its Critics (1955)
Yeah, when I'm looking for an expert on economics, my favorite source is a Marxist lawyer.....DERP!
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