Who The Enemy Is

[theim]

"I have seen the enemy and they are us."

At least someone finally admits to hating their own country. Good for you.

 

[spillmind]

The Downing Street Memo reported that in a July 23, 2002 meeting between Prime Minister Blair and his war cabinet, attendees of the meeting discussed the fact that President Bush had already made up his mind to attack Iraq. According to the minutes of the meeting:

“There was a perceptible shift in attitude. Military action was now seen as inevitable. Bush wanted to remove Saddam, through military action.”

Yet, as the record below proves, President Bush claimed over and over after July 23rd until the war began that he had not made up his mind.

Bush: “Of course, I haven’t made up my mind we’re going to war with Iraq.” [10/1/02]
http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2002/10/20021001-1.html

Bush:“Hopefully, we can do this peacefully – don’t get me wrong. And if the world were to collectively come together to do so, and to put pressure on Saddam Hussein and convince him to disarm, there’s a chance he may decide to do that. And war is not my first choice, don’t – it’s my last choice.” [11/7/02]
http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2002/11/20021107-2.html

Bush: “This is our attempt to work with the world community to create peace. And the best way for peace is for Mr. Saddam Hussein to disarm. It’s up to him to make his decision.” [12/4/02]
http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2002/12/20021204-1.html

Bush: “You said we’re headed to war in Iraq – I don’t know why you say that. I hope we’re not headed to war in Iraq. I’m the person who gets to decide, not you. I hope this can be done peacefully.” [12/31/02]
http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2002/12/20021231-1.html

Bush: “First of all, you know, I’m hopeful we won’t have to go war, and let’s leave it at that.” [1/2/03]
http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2003/01/20030102.html

Bush: “But Saddam Hussein is – he’s treated the demands of the world as a joke up to now, and it was his choice to make. He’s the person who gets to decide war and peace.” [2/7/03]
http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2003/02/20030207-3.html

Bush:“I’ve not made up our mind about military action. Hopefully, this can be done peacefully.” [3/6/03]
http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2003/03/20030306-8.html

Bush: “I want to remind you that it’s his choice to make as to whether or not we go to war. It’s Saddam’s choice. He’s the person that can make the choice of war and peace.” [3/6/03]
http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2003/03/20030306-8.html

Bush: “We are doing everything we can to avoid war in Iraq. But if Saddam Hussein does not disarm peacefully, he will be disarmed by force.” [3/8/03]
http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2003/03/20030308-1.html

Bush: “Should Saddam Hussein choose confrontation, the American people can know that every measure has been taken to avoid war, and every measure will be taken to win it.” [3/17/03]
http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2003/03/20030317-7.html

 

[Annie]

The Downing Street Memo reported that in a July 23, 2002 meeting between Prime Minister Blair and his war cabinet, attendees of the meeting discussed the fact that President Bush had already made up his mind to attack Iraq. According to the minutes of the meeting:

“There was a perceptible shift in attitude. Military action was now seen as inevitable. Bush wanted to remove Saddam, through military action.”

Yet, as the record below proves, President Bush claimed over and over after July 23rd until the war began that he had not made up his mind.

Bush: “Of course, I haven’t made up my mind we’re going to war with Iraq.” [10/1/02]
http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2002/10/20021001-1.html

Bush:“Hopefully, we can do this peacefully – don’t get me wrong. And if the world were to collectively come together to do so, and to put pressure on Saddam Hussein and convince him to disarm, there’s a chance he may decide to do that. And war is not my first choice, don’t – it’s my last choice.” [11/7/02]
http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2002/11/20021107-2.html

Bush: “This is our attempt to work with the world community to create peace. And the best way for peace is for Mr. Saddam Hussein to disarm. It’s up to him to make his decision.” [12/4/02]
http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2002/12/20021204-1.html

Bush: “You said we’re headed to war in Iraq – I don’t know why you say that. I hope we’re not headed to war in Iraq. I’m the person who gets to decide, not you. I hope this can be done peacefully.” [12/31/02]
http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2002/12/20021231-1.html

Bush: “First of all, you know, I’m hopeful we won’t have to go war, and let’s leave it at that.” [1/2/03]
http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2003/01/20030102.html

Bush: “But Saddam Hussein is – he’s treated the demands of the world as a joke up to now, and it was his choice to make. He’s the person who gets to decide war and peace.” [2/7/03]
http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2003/02/20030207-3.html

Bush:“I’ve not made up our mind about military action. Hopefully, this can be done peacefully.” [3/6/03]
http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2003/03/20030306-8.html

Bush: “I want to remind you that it’s his choice to make as to whether or not we go to war. It’s Saddam’s choice. He’s the person that can make the choice of war and peace.” [3/6/03]
http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2003/03/20030306-8.html

Bush: “We are doing everything we can to avoid war in Iraq. But if Saddam Hussein does not disarm peacefully, he will be disarmed by force.” [3/8/03]
http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2003/03/20030308-1.html

Bush: “Should Saddam Hussein choose confrontation, the American people can know that every measure has been taken to avoid war, and every measure will be taken to win it.” [3/17/03]
http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2003/03/20030317-7.html

Spilly, like you say, if you are too lazy to look up sources, so am I. I'll give you this in response, which you would have to follow the links to if you would, which you won't.

In any case:

http://www.usmessageboard.com/forums/showthread.php?t=21603&highlight=downing+street+memo

 

[ThomasPaine]

to start an intellectual "War on Liberalism". Spilly is, unfortunately, not atypical of the liberal mindset in this nation. In short, they HATE this country. They HATE capitalism. They HATE the use of American military might ANYWHERE FOR ANY REASON unless a Clinton is in the White House. They HATE the red states and counties that don't vote for the Dem liars. They HATE reality and demand that everything is some sort of "grassy knoll" conspiracy by the economic elites against their socialist utopia, and, in summation, they HATE all things traditional in this country. Secede, your lefty bastards, if you can get any of your fellow lefties to drop the yellow stripe that runs down their collective backs and actually fight for something instead of whining and bitching like a weened puppy.
Fact is none of what they believe is reality. Vietnam and Watergate were their tutors and they learned well to hate their country and to despise right thinking. Frankly I'm appalled at his rhetoric and ashamed to call him my fellow countryman. But, in reality, they aren't fellow countrymen in any sense save they were, unfortunately for the majority of us, by an accident of geographical location of their births, citizens of this nation they so fervently disdain. We have a lot of work ahead to defeat this disease called liberalism.

 

[Annie]

to start an intellectual "War on Liberalism". Spilly is, unfortunately, not atypical of the liberal mindset in this nation. In short, they HATE this country. They HATE capitalism. They HATE the use of American military might ANYWHERE FOR ANY REASON unless a Clinton is in the White House. They HATE the red states and counties that don't vote for the Dem liars. They HATE reality and demand that everything is some sort of "grassy knoll" conspiracy by the economic elites against their socialist utopia, and, in summation, they HATE all things traditional in this country. Secede, your lefty bastards, if you can get any of your fellow lefties to drop the yellow stripe that runs down their collective backs and actually fight for something instead of whining and bitching like a weened puppy.
Fact is none of what they believe is reality. Vietnam and Watergate were their tutors and they learned well to hate their country and to despise right thinking. Frankly I'm appalled at his rhetoric and ashamed to call him my fellow countryman. But, in reality, they aren't fellow countrymen in any sense save they were, unfortunately for the majority of us, by an accident of geographical location of their births, citizens of this nation they so fervently disdain. We have a lot of work ahead to defeat this disease called liberalism.

I would generally have to agree with this. Yeah, I do.

 

[Gabriella84]

Spilly, like you say, if you are too lazy to look up sources, so am I. I'll give you this in response, which you would have to follow the links to if you would, which you won't.

How can you say this in response to a post that has just listed a bunch of quotes and their sources?

 

[Annie]

How can you say this in response to a post that has just listed a bunch of quotes and their sources?

Easily, you have to know Spilly. He got them at another lefty site. He knows, we know. You my dear, unlike Spilly or Bully are an unknown, thus garbage.

 

[spillmind]

to start an intellectual "War on Liberalism". Spilly is, unfortunately, not atypical of the liberal mindset in this nation. In short, they HATE this country. They HATE capitalism. They HATE the use of American military might ANYWHERE FOR ANY REASON unless a Clinton is in the White House. They HATE the red states and counties that don't vote for the Dem liars. They HATE reality and demand that everything is some sort of "grassy knoll" conspiracy by the economic elites against their socialist utopia, and, in summation, they HATE all things traditional in this country. Secede, your lefty bastards, if you can get any of your fellow lefties to drop the yellow stripe that runs down their collective backs and actually fight for something instead of whining and bitching like a weened puppy.
Fact is none of what they believe is reality. Vietnam and Watergate were their tutors and they learned well to hate their country and to despise right thinking. Frankly I'm appalled at his rhetoric and ashamed to call him my fellow countryman. But, in reality, they aren't fellow countrymen in any sense save they were, unfortunately for the majority of us, by an accident of geographical location of their births, citizens of this nation they so fervently disdain. We have a lot of work ahead to defeat this disease called liberalism.

if i hate this country WHY THE HELL AM I POSTING HERE?

 

[Annie]

if i hate this country WHY THE HELL AM I POSTING HERE?

We ask ourselves the same each time, Spilly. Can you enlighten us?

 

[spillmind]

We ask ourselves the same each time, Spilly. Can you enlighten us?

if you haven't gotten it by now, odds are you never will.

 

[Annie]

if you haven't gotten it by now, odds are you never will.

Lost cause then. You failed, as I know for a fact that I'm more than a tad bright.

 

[ThomasPaine]

if i hate this country WHY THE HELL AM I POSTING HERE?

things. Here I'll throw you a bone by noting a few of the things I love about America. I love it's people, from the drawls of the deep south, the twang of Texas, the clipped nasal of New England, the flat pronunciation of the midwest, to the laid back California cool. From the native Americans that live in my state; to the Mayflower colonialists that can trace their lineage back centuries; to the black Americans, whom, unlike most groups, came here not of their free will, were subjugated to the horrors of slavery, yet have made as great, if not greater, contribution to our country and our culture as any group; the more recent immigrants from Europe, like my family, or from Asia, as are so many others.

I love the philosophy of my country. The "can do" yankee ingeniuity. The never say die or quit that have made us the envy of the world. This goes without mentioning our political philosophy, which beginning with the Revolutionary War, has proved to not only be a beacon of hope for all freedom loving peoples worldwide, but, in the long run of history, to be the best political model for the world.
I love the land. I love the geographic beauty of this continent nation we call home. From the coasts and their beautiful beaches to the mountains of Appalachia and the Rockies. The breathtaking awe of the open plains and a sky that goes on forever. Our rivers and delta lands. The high plains and deserts of the Southwest have a quiet beauty that touches the soul and frees the mind.

Okay spilly there's just a few things. I could go on but I'd bore you with what I'm sure those of your ilk would consider ridiculous sentamentalism about our homeland. Name me a few things you love. There have to be some.

 

[spillmind]

Answer me this first Spilly, why was this war in Iraq all premeditated?
Was it for the oil as you're early opinions suggested? not looking too good so far. Was it to do good by daddy as other bone headed libs had mentioned?
Or was it to keep the American public preoccupied after 911 which of course Bush himself is responsible for?
We have heard all kinds of theories so far but yet to hear one that is really solid, so why not take a crack it?

what up sir e, and apologies for not replying to your inquiry before. i'm off for a ride on the mountain, just enough time to post this.

was the war in iraq premeditated? as in a certainty even before they made false intelligence claims, turned around and blamed it on british intelligence?
before the inspectors were in there, claimin there were none to be found?

i can safely say from my perspective, this was a war and dumbya saw as a maybe a grudge? maybe wanting to roll from the failed capture of OBL to ousting the next best thing in his mind? nevermind both NK and iran are closer to being a real threat by any measure. ...nah that still isn't enough.

the thing that doesn't add up, is why? what would invading iraq achieve? and what has it achieved? you people say democracy, freedom :blah2: , but you've got to be either blind or in denial to see that isn't going to pan out.

the chimp isn't very bright, but that is besides the point. i think this was a war for PROFITEERING, one in which was extremely profitable for a few individuals. mix in a little corruption. and VIOLA! some people are getting paid like you wouldn't believe and many other people are dying, and all of our money being funnelled down the toilet.

there you have it. pretty groundbreaking, huh. profiteering makes a helluva lot more sense than this spread democracy (under martial law) bullshit. my 2¢

 

[Said1]

what up sir e, and apologies for not replying to your inquiry before. i'm off for a ride on the mountain, just enough time to post this.

was the war in iraq premeditated? as in a certainty even before they made false intelligence claims, turned around and blamed it on british intelligence?
before the inspectors were in there, claimin there were none to be found?

i can safely say from my perspective, this was a war and dumbya saw as a maybe a grudge? maybe wanting to roll from the failed capture of OBL to ousting the next best thing in his mind? nevermind both NK and iran are closer to being a real threat by any measure. ...nah that still isn't enough.

the thing that doesn't add up, is why? what would invading iraq achieve? and what has it achieved? you people say democracy, freedom :blah2: , but you've got to be either blind or in denial to see that isn't going to pan out.

the chimp isn't very bright, but that is besides the point. i think this was a war for PROFITEERING, one in which was extremely profitable for a few individuals. mix in a little corruption. and VIOLA! some people are getting paid like you wouldn't believe and many other people are dying, and all of our money being funnelled down the toilet.

there you have it. pretty groundbreaking, huh. profiteering makes a helluva lot more sense than this spread democracy (under martial law) bullshit. my 2¢

Oil for food was for profiteering. A program wich was extremely profitable for some many, I couldn't even begin to list them all (without a link of course). Aside from keeping disidents in check, does anyone seriously think Saddam was actually running that country?

 

[ThomasPaine]

The Muslim world is sick. Just plain sick in it;s hearts and minds. The invasion of Iraq was to

1. Let the Muslim extemists understand that The United States was no paper tiger and would not stand idle after the 9-11 attacks. We wanted to kick some Muslim ass and put the fear of God (not Allah) into them. The thought being that 100,000+ American groundpounders in the area would cause a change of behavior. Iraq was simply the target because Saddam was, a ruthless dictator, had been an enemy of The United States before, had threatened and waged war on his neighbors (Iran and Kuwait), had threatened to invade Saudi Arabia and thus put a knife to the oil carotid of the world, and was commiting ongoing violations of the peace accord arrived at after the Gulf War.

2. I know this sounds unbelieveable to liberals who barely find democracy and it's giving power to the undeserving people and not the "intellectual elites" acceptable, but the theory has been, at least since WWI, that democracies have less tendencies to commit war and atrocities on their neighbors. Yep sounds horribly pedestrian I'm sure to a liberal like yourself but Bush and his advisors actually thought, like Woodrow Wilson and Franklin Delano Roosevelt, that the foreign policy ambition of The United States should be to promote freedom and democracy. The idea, which I'm sure you don't agree with, was that if the Muslim would were free and democratic it might awaken from it's long intellectual slumber, grasp the concepts of freedom and democracy, and drag itself out of the 7th century to the 21st.

3.Bush and others hoped that Iraq could become a model and that democracy,freedom, and liberty would spread throughout the Middle East and the Muslim world as a whole. That having achieved democratization and some form of enlightenment in the Muslim world they would pull their heads out of their collective asses, realize that The United States was not their enemy, and that to continue to hate Americans and commit acts of terror against Americans was not in the long run "condusive" to their well being; i.e. keep it up boys and we'll kill as many of you as we can and make life decidedly unpleasant for those survivors.

So there you have it. Those are some of the reasons, often implied but unstated, for the war in Iraq. I'm certain I've both enlightened you and altered your viewpoint on the war. If you are in need of further foreign policy elucidation I will be glad to assist you in a proper understanding of geopolitics. Your welcome and have a nice day.

 

[Gunny]

what up sir e, and apologies for not replying to your inquiry before. i'm off for a ride on the mountain, just enough time to post this.

was the war in iraq premeditated? as in a certainty even before they made false intelligence claims, turned around and blamed it on british intelligence?
before the inspectors were in there, claimin there were none to be found?

i can safely say from my perspective, this was a war and dumbya saw as a maybe a grudge? maybe wanting to roll from the failed capture of OBL to ousting the next best thing in his mind? nevermind both NK and iran are closer to being a real threat by any measure. ...nah that still isn't enough.

the thing that doesn't add up, is why? what would invading iraq achieve? and what has it achieved? you people say democracy, freedom :blah2: , but you've got to be either blind or in denial to see that isn't going to pan out.

the chimp isn't very bright, but that is besides the point. i think this was a war for PROFITEERING, one in which was extremely profitable for a few individuals. mix in a little corruption. and VIOLA! some people are getting paid like you wouldn't believe and many other people are dying, and all of our money being funnelled down the toilet.

there you have it. pretty groundbreaking, huh. profiteering makes a helluva lot more sense than this spread democracy (under martial law) bullshit. my 2¢

Have you ever sat down and considered the cost to us as a Nation to babysit Saddam for twelve years? That's not to mention the 3+ years in seatime I gained out of the deal. That is time I didn't see my children, yada, yada, yada.

Saddam was a loose end that needed to be dealt with and was ignored for 8 years by Trailer Trash Bill. This shouldn't even be GWB's problem. Clinton should have handled this instead if interfering militarily in the internal politics of Yugoslavia for which I have YET to hear one word of criticism from the left.

FACT: 9/11 gave a whole new meaning to Nations hostile to the US possessing WMDs. Like it or not, Saddam had them and he used them. It doesn't matter when. The fact he did proves intent.

FACT: Saddam acted like he possessed WMDs. Whether he did or not is irrelevant. He led inspectors on goose chases for twelve years. Would not allow them access to certain places, and even denied them the right to inspect. All of which was in violation to the UN Resolution he agreed to in order for us to stop whipping up on his ass in 91.

All Saddam had to do was comply with the UN and he'd have been on the back burner by 95.

FACT: Saddam supported Hezbollah financially, and provided a safe haven for radical Islamists if they wanted it.

Like it or not, we would be fools to not a have a presence in a region we are so dependent on for oil. Was it up to me, there WOULD BE some profiteering going on. Iraqi oil would be paying for their war and their freedom, not our tax dollars. We're playing it so straight we aren't even making them pay for their own liberation.

The problem with the conspracy theories is they never add up, and are unsupported by fact. Just a partisan hatred for a man who represents a political party.