Who Can Forgive Your Sins?

[BreezeWood]

Not really on the topic of the threads, but in response to the title....

Only I can forgive my sins and only through accepting responsibility for my actions.

.

Only I can forgive my sins and only through accepting responsibility for my actions.

forgive what can be forgotten - responsibility, is that synonymous with restitution ...

Responsibility may lead to restitution, but is not the same thing. It may only mean acceptance of the wrong and working not to do it again.

.

Responsibility may lead to restitution, but is not the same thing. It may only mean acceptance of the wrong and working not to do it again.

It may only mean acceptance of the wrong and working not to do it again ...

. good luck with that one, howabout a $10,000 loan. to my neighbor, they try real hard at being contentious ...

How about treating someone badly and being told they never want to see you again.

.

How about treating someone badly and being told they never want to see you again.

. - how is responsibility possible without restitution ...

 

[diver52]

Not really on the topic of the threads, but in response to the title....

Only I can forgive my sins and only through accepting responsibility for my actions.

.

Only I can forgive my sins and only through accepting responsibility for my actions.

forgive what can be forgotten - responsibility, is that synonymous with restitution ...

Responsibility may lead to restitution, but is not the same thing. It may only mean acceptance of the wrong and working not to do it again.

.

Responsibility may lead to restitution, but is not the same thing. It may only mean acceptance of the wrong and working not to do it again.

It may only mean acceptance of the wrong and working not to do it again ...

. good luck with that one, howabout a $10,000 loan. to my neighbor, they try real hard at being contentious ...

How about treating someone badly and being told they never want to see you again.

.

How about treating someone badly and being told they never want to see you again.

. - how is responsibility possible without restitution ...

Define restitution. I am at a loss as to how that would apply to my example.

 

[james bond]

God created everything in the universe, including pain, suffering and sin.

You got two of three right lol. You get the sin. I think it's in your heart.

 

[james bond]

I wouldn't say that. Have you been to jail?

you don't get punished for adultery/gluttony/etc etc

I'll take that as a yes haha. One could get punished if one gets caught for adultery; they end up divorced or worse killed or injured in the heat of passion. Gluttony leads to health problems. It's all natural.

Now, you said humans were "made" to sin which isn't exactly correct. Adam and Eve were created to not disobey God. Not go against him. That was the only rule because they had free will. Going against God isn't natural. A talking snake isn't natural. Everything else was at the time.

The other important part to remember is God had already created hell because of Lucifer going against him. In his infinite wisdom, this was all part of natural.

Afterward, we live in the fallen world. You and I and everyone here didn't have much choice for that. That's why in this life I agreed with you that to sin is natural. We can't help it even if we are Christians.

lot's of people commit adultery and don't get punished--plain and simple

Jeez, I disagree with that. Are you married or have been married? In a relationship? In law enforcement, it doesn't take long for one to get involved in a crime of passion or heated marital or man-woman argument. .

AND humans were MADE to eat/''interact'' with the opposite sex/etc
very ridiculous to ''punish'' humans for doing what they do naturally

I was talking about humans punishing each other. If you're referring to what Jesus meant, then yeah, that's a serious sin and you go to hell over it. For example, getting married after divorce. However, one can repent their sin and re-marry. Repenting divorce isn't easy.

 

[Marion Morrison]

Yesterday, I was faced with a moral dilemma for Christians. I am a big Alfred Hitchcock fan and Psycho (1960) is one of my favorite movies of his. I think everyone knows of the famous or infamous shower scene where Marion Crane is killed. It is considered the first slasher movie.

My question is this: If Marion was Christian, then was she forgiven for her sins? Did she repent? I think most people have seen the movie and this won't be a spoiler. Marion stole $40,000, or about $346,000 in today's dollars. She decided to go back home and return the money and make up for the difference. Contrary to popular belief, she was not committing adultery with a married man, as Sam Loomis was divorced. She can be in sin having sex out of wedlock, but who's counting?

“Why does this man speak like that? He is blaspheming! Who can forgive sins but God alone?” Mark 2:7

Do you think she was forgiven?

Here's what happened once she decided to come clean (no pun intended). The shower scene is symbolic of Marion cleansing her sins.



What happens to her afterward is symbolic of Satan. Notice how the evidence of sin is not asked to be cleansed, but it is the evidence of sin is cleansed

God the Father, next!

 

[Taz]

God created everything in the universe, including pain, suffering and sin.

You got two of three right lol. You get the sin. I think it's in your heart.

How can god create a universe but not everything in it? Did some stuff just sneak in?

 

[BreezeWood]

.
forgive what can be forgotten - responsibility, is that synonymous with restitution ...

Responsibility may lead to restitution, but is not the same thing. It may only mean acceptance of the wrong and working not to do it again.

.

Responsibility may lead to restitution, but is not the same thing. It may only mean acceptance of the wrong and working not to do it again.

It may only mean acceptance of the wrong and working not to do it again ...

. good luck with that one, howabout a $10,000 loan. to my neighbor, they try real hard at being contentious ...

How about treating someone badly and being told they never want to see you again.

.

How about treating someone badly and being told they never want to see you again.

. - how is responsibility possible without restitution ...

Define restitution. I am at a loss as to how that would apply to my example.

.

Responsibility may lead to restitution, but is not the same thing. It may only mean acceptance of the wrong and working not to do it again.

How about treating someone badly and being told they never want to see you again.

Define restitution. I am at a loss as to how that would apply to my example.

the middle quote is your example ...

restitution would be peripheral to the internal admonition of responsibility and is applicable to the injured party your internal correction is not - like keeping the stolen car but saying you will not do it again.

 

[diver52]

Responsibility may lead to restitution, but is not the same thing. It may only mean acceptance of the wrong and working not to do it again.

.

Responsibility may lead to restitution, but is not the same thing. It may only mean acceptance of the wrong and working not to do it again.

It may only mean acceptance of the wrong and working not to do it again ...

. good luck with that one, howabout a $10,000 loan. to my neighbor, they try real hard at being contentious ...

How about treating someone badly and being told they never want to see you again.

.

How about treating someone badly and being told they never want to see you again.

. - how is responsibility possible without restitution ...

Define restitution. I am at a loss as to how that would apply to my example.

.

Responsibility may lead to restitution, but is not the same thing. It may only mean acceptance of the wrong and working not to do it again.

How about treating someone badly and being told they never want to see you again.

Define restitution. I am at a loss as to how that would apply to my example.

the middle quote is your example ...

restitution would be peripheral to the internal admonition of responsibility and is applicable to the injured party your internal correction is not - like keeping the stolen car but saying you will not do it again.

But in the example the injured party has already said they want no further contact. In order to provide restitution (which I suppose would be an apology) would require going against their wishes. I can only take responsibility by further intruding on them?

 

[BreezeWood]

Yesterday, I was faced with a moral dilemma for Christians. I am a big Alfred Hitchcock fan and Psycho (1960) is one of my favorite movies of his. I think everyone knows of the famous or infamous shower scene where Marion Crane is killed. It is considered the first slasher movie.

My question is this: If Marion was Christian, then was she forgiven for her sins? Did she repent? I think most people have seen the movie and this won't be a spoiler. Marion stole $40,000, or about $346,000 in today's dollars. She decided to go back home and return the money and make up for the difference. Contrary to popular belief, she was not committing adultery with a married man, as Sam Loomis was divorced. She can be in sin having sex out of wedlock, but who's counting?

“Why does this man speak like that? He is blaspheming! Who can forgive sins but God alone?” Mark 2:7

Do you think she was forgiven?

Here's what happened once she decided to come clean (no pun intended). The shower scene is symbolic of Marion cleansing her sins.



What happens to her afterward is symbolic of Satan. Notice how the evidence of sin is not asked to be cleansed, but it is the evidence of sin is cleansed

God the Father, next!

.
Who Can Forgive Your Sins?

God the Father, next!

howabout the reason they exist is to prosecute sinners especially the extortionist, idolatry christians that deserve the fate found in their own forged document. just for giggles for everyone else.

 

[BreezeWood]

.

It may only mean acceptance of the wrong and working not to do it again ...

. good luck with that one, howabout a $10,000 loan. to my neighbor, they try real hard at being contentious ...

How about treating someone badly and being told they never want to see you again.

.

How about treating someone badly and being told they never want to see you again.

. - how is responsibility possible without restitution ...

Define restitution. I am at a loss as to how that would apply to my example.

.

Responsibility may lead to restitution, but is not the same thing. It may only mean acceptance of the wrong and working not to do it again.

How about treating someone badly and being told they never want to see you again.

Define restitution. I am at a loss as to how that would apply to my example.

the middle quote is your example ...

restitution would be peripheral to the internal admonition of responsibility and is applicable to the injured party your internal correction is not - like keeping the stolen car but saying you will not do it again.

But in the example the injured party has already said they want no further contact. In order to provide restitution (which I suppose would be an apology) would require going against their wishes. I can only take responsibility by further intruding on them?

.

But in the example the injured party has already said they want no further contact. In order to provide restitution (which I suppose would be an apology) would require going against their wishes. I can only take responsibility by further intruding on them?

that is a possible example for your conclusion were restitution still made available with or without the other parties acceptance especially in your example what the issue was for them to never see you again. for the purpose to alleviate a sin ... restitution is responsibility.

 

[diver52]

How about treating someone badly and being told they never want to see you again.

.

How about treating someone badly and being told they never want to see you again.

. - how is responsibility possible without restitution ...

Define restitution. I am at a loss as to how that would apply to my example.

.

Responsibility may lead to restitution, but is not the same thing. It may only mean acceptance of the wrong and working not to do it again.

How about treating someone badly and being told they never want to see you again.

Define restitution. I am at a loss as to how that would apply to my example.

the middle quote is your example ...

restitution would be peripheral to the internal admonition of responsibility and is applicable to the injured party your internal correction is not - like keeping the stolen car but saying you will not do it again.

But in the example the injured party has already said they want no further contact. In order to provide restitution (which I suppose would be an apology) would require going against their wishes. I can only take responsibility by further intruding on them?

.

But in the example the injured party has already said they want no further contact. In order to provide restitution (which I suppose would be an apology) would require going against their wishes. I can only take responsibility by further intruding on them?

that is a possible example for your conclusion were restitution still made available with or without the other parties acceptance especially in your example what the issue was for them to never see you again. for the purpose to alleviate a sin ... restitution is responsibility.

We are not going to agree on this. Restitution is not responsibility, it is simply a way to mitigate harm. You can do that while still taking no responsibility at all.

 

[emilynghiem]

Yesterday, I was faced with a moral dilemma for Christians. I am a big Alfred Hitchcock fan and Psycho (1960) is one of my favorite movies of his. I think everyone knows of the famous or infamous shower scene where Marion Crane is killed. It is considered the first slasher movie.

My question is this: If Marion was Christian, then was she forgiven for her sins? Did she repent? I think most people have seen the movie and this won't be a spoiler. Marion stole $40,000, or about $346,000 in today's dollars. She decided to go back home and return the money and make up for the difference. Contrary to popular belief, she was not committing adultery with a married man, as Sam Loomis was divorced. She can be in sin having sex out of wedlock, but who's counting?

“Why does this man speak like that? He is blaspheming! Who can forgive sins but God alone?” Mark 2:7

Do you think she was forgiven?

Here's what happened once she decided to come clean (no pun intended). The shower scene is symbolic of Marion cleansing her sins.



What happens to her afterward is symbolic of Satan. Notice how the evidence of sin is not asked to be cleansed, but it is the evidence of sin is cleansed

Dear james bond
My understanding is that to the degree that someone, in this case Marione,
forgives trespasses, then her trespasses are forgiven.

I don't know what is going on "internally" with her and others
between them and God, how much they have forgiven between them.

However, in general, the people I know who are FULLY AWARE of the
forgiveness needed between man and God and man and man,
tend to understand SPIRITUAL HEALING and MIRACLES that occur
with this level of spiritual openness, awareness to receive, and FULL
obedience with God and connection with others and with the whole.

Such people tend to be in very HUMBLE positions helping people who
come to them but not making it where they have attention on themselves
but OPENLY credit God and Greater Good for all humanity. One person I
know calls it the ONENESS of HUMANITY and is totally open to all people,
by the time you reach that level of FULL forgiveness and awareness.

So by comparison with the people who are of this heightened state,
I am guessing Marione isn't FULLY there, although I STILL believe
God forgives and it's just that Marione would still need to finish resolving
things even after death before the process is finished.

The people I know who did wrong and turned their lives around
had to go through deep cleansing prayer that often involves team
prayer and counseling with more than one person helping them,
including verbally and openly talking through the process to truly
change inside and out. It takes a lot more work, and in severe cases,
a lot more time to fully resolve and recover. After the cleansing,
where people I know have withdrawn socially to work things out internally,
it can take at least two years to be able to function in society again.

This isn't going to be shown in movies, and whatever happens after
death to finish reconciling whatever wasn't done in life, we don't know that either.
We can only guess.

My guess is whatever we don't forgive or don't know to forgive,
that karma stays back and can pass on to the next generation
until those sins/karma are given up by forgiveness and resolved.
The vicious cycle of negative abusive patterns can pass from
generation to generation until finally it is broken by forgiveness
and healing. God still forgives, but it can take time, and sometimes
multiple generations, before people forgive and get to a stage of
healing for themselves, their family lines, their tribal or national
history, and collectively for all society and humanity.

Whether this forgiveness and healing takes place in THIS lifetime
or beyond, is part of God's plan whose grace is unconditional,
and it's just a matter of time and circumstance before all the
negative influence is eventually overcome by giving it to God
through Christ. Whenever that happens, it is done, regardless
what point in time. And through Christ all things are made new,
all wrongs are made right, whatever needs to be removed is
cut out, and whatever can be transformed is made perfect and whole.

 

[irosie91]

I don't remember any plan of Marion to return the money

 

[james bond]

God the Father, next!

Close, but no cigar. One wants to get to God the Father. We discussed the thief on the cross. Who forgave him?

 

[james bond]

I don't remember any plan of Marion to return the money

This part is subject to interpretation. One reviewer thought the shower scene was the cleansing of her sins. Just being killed is not repentance for her sins. It means that she changed her ways from talking with a stranger and figuring out what she had to do to make restitution. $700 back then is about $6000. She also has to get another car and give up her future with Sam. What did you think she was going to do?

 

[irosie91]

I don't remember any plan of Marion to return the money

This part is subject to interpretation. One reviewer thought the shower scene was the cleansing of her sins. Just being killed is not repentance for her sins. It means that she changed her ways from talking with a stranger and figuring out what she had to do to make restitution. $700 back then is about $6000. She also has to get another car and give up her future with Sam. What did you think she was going to do?

I do not believe that even HITCHCOCK considered "WHAT SHE WAS GOING TO DO"------it was a story-----a movie meant to provide SUSPENSE. ----the stabbing was there for EFFECT ------not a substitution for the "sacrifice of the lamb"

 

[james bond]

My understanding is that to the degree that someone, in this case Marione,
forgives trespasses, then her trespasses are forgiven.

I don't know what is going on "internally" with her and others
between them and God, how much they have forgiven between them.

We do get an idea of what's going on "internally" with Marion, but have to judge her by her actions if we are discussing cleansing of her sins. I thought Hitch was suggesting she did as she did not get a chance to fully repent by giving back the money. She was wearing white underneath when having another sexual tryst with her divorced lover. She was wearing black underneath after she stole the money. What happens to her before she gets to the motel is her dealing with guilt and the fear of being caught. We see that internalization. The highway patrolman becomes very suspicious of her by her behavior. She buys a newspaper to see if her crime has been reported. Then she ends up trading her car in a very suspicious manner. Even the car salesman says so to the patrolman. We also hear her talking to herself way before she gets to the motel.

This is all very important to understanding Marion before she gets to the motel.

What I don't get is how she is supposed to forgive trespasses against her? Have you seen the movie? If not, it's worth viewing even though it may not be your cup of tea. Why? We find that we can look at it from a sin view. You don't have to get way deep into the story as it is very shocking of what's behind the Bates family.

 

[james bond]

I don't remember any plan of Marion to return the money

This part is subject to interpretation. One reviewer thought the shower scene was the cleansing of her sins. Just being killed is not repentance for her sins. It means that she changed her ways from talking with a stranger and figuring out what she had to do to make restitution. $700 back then is about $6000. She also has to get another car and give up her future with Sam. What did you think she was going to do?

I do not believe that even HITCHCOCK considered "WHAT SHE WAS GOING TO DO"------it was a story-----a movie meant to provide SUSPENSE. ----the stabbing was there for EFFECT ------not a substitution for the "sacrifice of the lamb"

I think the audience gets a very good idea of Marion. She is one of the protagonists in the movie. The other is Norman. Behind this is the concept of duality. There are two in this movie including double entendres in the dialog and scenes leading up to the shower scene. For example, Hitch's daugther has a scene discussing tranquilizers for a headache. That's what is given to psychiatric patients in an asylum to calm them down. Along with the director's subtle meanings, we have a pretty good idea of what Marion is like before she gets in the shower. I would think if one took a poll, then Marion would be the good and favorable character. Duality.

 

[BreezeWood]

.
. - how is responsibility possible without restitution ...

Define restitution. I am at a loss as to how that would apply to my example.

.

Responsibility may lead to restitution, but is not the same thing. It may only mean acceptance of the wrong and working not to do it again.

How about treating someone badly and being told they never want to see you again.

Define restitution. I am at a loss as to how that would apply to my example.

the middle quote is your example ...

restitution would be peripheral to the internal admonition of responsibility and is applicable to the injured party your internal correction is not - like keeping the stolen car but saying you will not do it again.

But in the example the injured party has already said they want no further contact. In order to provide restitution (which I suppose would be an apology) would require going against their wishes. I can only take responsibility by further intruding on them?

.

But in the example the injured party has already said they want no further contact. In order to provide restitution (which I suppose would be an apology) would require going against their wishes. I can only take responsibility by further intruding on them?

that is a possible example for your conclusion were restitution still made available with or without the other parties acceptance especially in your example what the issue was for them to never see you again. for the purpose to alleviate a sin ... restitution is responsibility.

We are not going to agree on this. Restitution is not responsibility, it is simply a way to mitigate harm. You can do that while still taking no responsibility at all.

.

We are not going to agree on this. Restitution is not responsibility, it is simply a way to mitigate harm. You can do that while still taking no responsibility at all.

it is simply a way to mitigate harm .

one might inquire why that would not be required, not mitigation but a complete reversal of the harm created. or the responsibility becomes otherwise irrelevant. the victim not yourself is the focal point.

keeping the stolen car while feeling bad about stealing it is a bit of stretch.

your example is no different whether accepted or not the effort to undo the harm would be required over leaving it intact.

 

[diver52]

Define restitution. I am at a loss as to how that would apply to my example.

.

Responsibility may lead to restitution, but is not the same thing. It may only mean acceptance of the wrong and working not to do it again.

How about treating someone badly and being told they never want to see you again.

Define restitution. I am at a loss as to how that would apply to my example.

the middle quote is your example ...

restitution would be peripheral to the internal admonition of responsibility and is applicable to the injured party your internal correction is not - like keeping the stolen car but saying you will not do it again.

But in the example the injured party has already said they want no further contact. In order to provide restitution (which I suppose would be an apology) would require going against their wishes. I can only take responsibility by further intruding on them?

.

But in the example the injured party has already said they want no further contact. In order to provide restitution (which I suppose would be an apology) would require going against their wishes. I can only take responsibility by further intruding on them?

that is a possible example for your conclusion were restitution still made available with or without the other parties acceptance especially in your example what the issue was for them to never see you again. for the purpose to alleviate a sin ... restitution is responsibility.

We are not going to agree on this. Restitution is not responsibility, it is simply a way to mitigate harm. You can do that while still taking no responsibility at all.

.

We are not going to agree on this. Restitution is not responsibility, it is simply a way to mitigate harm. You can do that while still taking no responsibility at all.

it is simply a way to mitigate harm .

one might inquire why that would not be required, not mitigation but a complete reversal of the harm created. or the responsibility becomes otherwise irrelevant. the victim not yourself is the focal point.

keeping the stolen car while feeling bad about stealing it is a bit of stretch.

your example is no different whether accepted or not the effort to undo the harm would be required over leaving it intact.

A lovely thought, but almost always not possible. If I trod on your toe, how do I undo the pain you experience?