Who Are The Palestinians?

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So if I owned 100 acres and ali owned 10 acres I would pay the same tax as he would, or would I pay ten times more tax than him. Of course 100 acres is valued higher than 10 acres.

Do you understand this now, if the Jews owned 4.8% of the land and the arab muslims owned 0.8% of the land then the Jews would pay more tax. Which is what table 2 shows and is explained in the sectioned I posted that monti left out because it destroys his stance. Just as removing table 1 destroys his claims because it gives the true land ownership.


You are such an idiot it states plainly how much land each group owned. A dunum is about 1,000 square meters

26,670,455 Dunums Arabs
1,514,247 Dunums Jews

That is the true land ownership you cretin.

Arabs owned more than 85% of the land in 1946, and Jews owned less than 7% of the land in 1946. Get it through your thick skull.

The the other table has nothing to do with land ownership.
Of course this discussion is meaningless. Sovereignty belongs to the citizens without regard to private property ownership. Somebody who rents a house in New Jersey has the same rights as a farm owner in Kentucky.

Jews owned land in Palestine but it was still Palestinian land. Jews own land in the US but it is still US land. It does not belong to any other country.

It is the people who have sovereignty. The citizens in a defined territory are the ones with the right to sovereignty. Governments or states only have sovereignty by extension of the will of the people.

"Palestine" is just a name of the mandate region. When the mandate ended the government of Eretz Israel choose to name their state Israel. There was no state of palestine so why should they have kept the name. They wanted their jewish state to reflect their history and ties to the land.
They had the right to call it what they wanted.
It was a distinction from the state offered and refused by the UN partition plan. At the time most palestinian arabs/muslims identified themselves as southern syrians, jordanian or just as arab. They were a mix of tribes and people and at the time the mandate ended close to half were immigrants that came seeking well paying work what had no real ties to the land or country.
If Israel had kept the name of palestine, what should the rest of the other land have called itself? Palestine II?
With the creation of Israel, the "land" was no longer palestine but now Israel.
Sovereignty and rights come from statehood which the palestinians never had or left because they did not want to accept either Israel or partition.
Israel could have called itself Mecca or Rome or Jewland or XYZland but it choose Israel. Palestinian refugees, gaza, WB , wherever don't have the right to tell Israel what it should be called. They don't want to be Israeli? They leave. Most stayed and are content as Israelis. They don't want to leave or change names.
Israel was identified by the mandate as a jewish homeland and Israel identifies as a jewish state. Israel was a logical choice for a name and the land is Israeli land and the people are Israeli.
Time you accept that.

Here are just a few of the lies from Aris.

The Palestinians already considered themselves Palestinians when the Mandate was established. The Christians and Muslims sent a Palestinian delegation to London at the outset of the Mandate (1922) to defend their rights. In letters to the British they called themselves the People of Palestine as per below:

"If to-day the People of Palestine assented to any constitution which fell short of giving them full control of their own affairs they would be in the position of agreeing to an instrument of Government which might, and probably would, be used to smother their national life under a flood of alien immigration. - See more at: UK correspondence with Palestine Arab Delegation and Zionist Organization British policy in Palestine Churchill White Paper - UK documentation Cmd. 1700 Non-UN document excerpts 1 July 1922


The Christians and Muslims rejected being forced to be ruled by Jews in their own home from the outset of the Mandate.

At the end of the Mandate, almost all the immigrants in Palestine were Jews.

From the 1946 UN Survey of Palestine available for download from Berman Jewish Policy Archive of NYU and Wagner University. Home Berman Jewish Policy Archive NYU Wagner

To be precise, of the 414,456 immigrants that entered Palestine between 1920 and 1946, 376,415 were Jews and only 38,041 were non-Jews. As reported in the UN's final survey of Palestine below.

View attachment 34599



Most of the Muslims and Christians that were living in what is now Israel were expelled. Of the approximately 750,00 Christians and Muslims that were in Israel's present day borders, only 150,000 were not expelled. As per UN Report A/1905 of 28 September 1951.

"14. About 150 000 of the Arab population of Palestine stayed in Israel and of these some were "refugees" in that their homes were destroyed and their means of livelihood gone. They were thus temporarily as much dependent on relief as those who had left the country, and when the United Nations took over the relief of refugees it was agreed with the Israel Government that a certain number of both Jews and Arabs in this position should be given assistance."

A 1905 of 28 September 1951



The census records at the time shows that fewer than 200,000 arab muslims and Christians lived in what was to become Israel. Of these 100,000 elected to stay and become Israeli citizens, with the rest being evicted as enemy hostiles or leaving of their own free will. Want to check your Anglo-American report again Abdul as it is spelt out in there. Just as is the level of illegal arab muslim immigration that you skirted over. Your favourite term demographics proves that the arab muslims could never have increased by natural means in the manner they did. The best practise of the day in Palestine resulted in less than 100 live births per 1,000 pregnancies, and a survival rate of less than 10% so giving 10 births resulting in adulthood out of every 1000 conceptions. Then there was the mortality rate of 30% of the population, that clearly shows the arab muslims would struggle to keep an even number from 1919 till 1948. Your much loved report spells it out as the crops failed in Syria, Egypt, Saudi etc. the arab muslim farm workers migrated to Palestine to work on the farms there. The farm owners paid higher wages that the surrounding areas so many arab muslims stayed to work the farms. They were not indigenous to the area and migrated illegally during the period 1920 to 1948.

Some of the poster seem to be confused. In a land that during the Roman occupation supported millions with more primitive methods was under populated. The beginning of the mandate there was around 500,000 people, of all types. They had not been generating enough tax money to fund the services for the region. Many that could have registered land did not want to so they could avoid taxes and military service. The region need an influx of population that was willing to develop the economy. Both Ottoman and arabs invited the jews to return to their historic homeland with the intent of building a jewish homeland. The LoN and Mandate also understood that the goal was to eventually create a jewish homeland.
First the arabs in the mandate were given Jordan as an arab/palestinian state. Around 75% of the population are palestinian today. When that did not satisfy those being incited by the mufti and blood libels there was a UN offer of partition creating a state for the palestinians, but that was refused and upon declaration of an Israeli state that country was attacked from all sides by overwhelming numbers.
I posted an article about the legal and illegal immigration into the mandate, but it must have gone over the heads of some posters, or they did not even bother to use the link to the site and read the article.
There was room for both nations but everytime the palestinians get close to an agreement they walk away or blow the deal with violence. There are several censuses other than Monti's #566 that go in to more detail and explain the reasons, but they are all imprecise. It is hard to do an accurate count of people that do not want to be counted or registered for what ever legal reasons or because of fluid movement within the region.
If you take all the information into account and come up with average population, immigration, land ownership, sale, production and taxation you get a more accurate view of the region. Research from just one source or from propaganda sites should be take with a large spoon of salt. Instead it should be injunction with all the evidence from a range of sources.
Monti's page #566 is not the definitive source of information, but he keeps repeating using it like it is absolute fact. If examined land for land type between the various groups it makes no sense that jews owning so little of the land should be paying 60% or more of the taxes. Nor do they coincide with other estimates before during and after that time. If there was an honest attempt n producing the figures then there is a good chance there was a typo in the figures.
Anyway you look at it, Monti's #566 should only be considered a one of many attempts at a land ownership, population, taxation, etc. view of what the region really looked like at the time. Personally I reject his miss use and representation of the factuality of his grail documents. In balance they are not supported nor is the methodology of the information included.
 
You are such an idiot it states plainly how much land each group owned. A dunum is about 1,000 square meters

26,670,455 Dunums Arabs
1,514,247 Dunums Jews

That is the true land ownership you cretin.

Arabs owned more than 85% of the land in 1946, and Jews owned less than 7% of the land in 1946. Get it through your thick skull.

The the other table has nothing to do with land ownership.
Of course this discussion is meaningless. Sovereignty belongs to the citizens without regard to private property ownership. Somebody who rents a house in New Jersey has the same rights as a farm owner in Kentucky.

Jews owned land in Palestine but it was still Palestinian land. Jews own land in the US but it is still US land. It does not belong to any other country.

It is the people who have sovereignty. The citizens in a defined territory are the ones with the right to sovereignty. Governments or states only have sovereignty by extension of the will of the people.

"Palestine" is just a name of the mandate region. When the mandate ended the government of Eretz Israel choose to name their state Israel. There was no state of palestine so why should they have kept the name. They wanted their jewish state to reflect their history and ties to the land.
They had the right to call it what they wanted.
It was a distinction from the state offered and refused by the UN partition plan. At the time most palestinian arabs/muslims identified themselves as southern syrians, jordanian or just as arab. They were a mix of tribes and people and at the time the mandate ended close to half were immigrants that came seeking well paying work what had no real ties to the land or country.
If Israel had kept the name of palestine, what should the rest of the other land have called itself? Palestine II?
With the creation of Israel, the "land" was no longer palestine but now Israel.
Sovereignty and rights come from statehood which the palestinians never had or left because they did not want to accept either Israel or partition.
Israel could have called itself Mecca or Rome or Jewland or XYZland but it choose Israel. Palestinian refugees, gaza, WB , wherever don't have the right to tell Israel what it should be called. They don't want to be Israeli? They leave. Most stayed and are content as Israelis. They don't want to leave or change names.
Israel was identified by the mandate as a jewish homeland and Israel identifies as a jewish state. Israel was a logical choice for a name and the land is Israeli land and the people are Israeli.
Time you accept that.
You start with this statement.

"Palestine" is just a name of the mandate region.
That is not true. Palestine was a country (Palestine was called a country ten times in the mandate charter) that was defined by international borders. It had citizens as per international law, the Treaty of Lausanna, and the Palestine citizenship order of 1925.

The rest of your post follows false premise.




Nope as the treaties state the mandate of Palestine and never the nation of Palestine, take another close look tinny ?

And the treaty of Lausanne does not even mention Palestine, while the Palestine citizenship order endows palestinians with British palestinian citizenship
Where does it say that?



On the passports issued and in the order itself


A second important clause of the draft, later to be intensely debated, stated that the foreign relations of the Palestine government were to be undertaken by Great Britain, and the citizens of Palestine were entitled to British protection when outside of Palestine

The creation of Palestinian citizenship under an international mandate 1918-1925 openDemocracy


And the arab muslims rejected the Palestine citizenship order out of hand.

The Palestinian Arab Executive leadership unanimously rejected the citizenship legislation on the basis that it denied citizenship to native-born Palestinians while privileging Jewish immigrants, and that it neglected provisions for natural civil and political rights.
 
Of course this discussion is meaningless. Sovereignty belongs to the citizens without regard to private property ownership. Somebody who rents a house in New Jersey has the same rights as a farm owner in Kentucky.

Jews owned land in Palestine but it was still Palestinian land. Jews own land in the US but it is still US land. It does not belong to any other country.

It is the people who have sovereignty. The citizens in a defined territory are the ones with the right to sovereignty. Governments or states only have sovereignty by extension of the will of the people.

"Palestine" is just a name of the mandate region. When the mandate ended the government of Eretz Israel choose to name their state Israel. There was no state of palestine so why should they have kept the name. They wanted their jewish state to reflect their history and ties to the land.
They had the right to call it what they wanted.
It was a distinction from the state offered and refused by the UN partition plan. At the time most palestinian arabs/muslims identified themselves as southern syrians, jordanian or just as arab. They were a mix of tribes and people and at the time the mandate ended close to half were immigrants that came seeking well paying work what had no real ties to the land or country.
If Israel had kept the name of palestine, what should the rest of the other land have called itself? Palestine II?
With the creation of Israel, the "land" was no longer palestine but now Israel.
Sovereignty and rights come from statehood which the palestinians never had or left because they did not want to accept either Israel or partition.
Israel could have called itself Mecca or Rome or Jewland or XYZland but it choose Israel. Palestinian refugees, gaza, WB , wherever don't have the right to tell Israel what it should be called. They don't want to be Israeli? They leave. Most stayed and are content as Israelis. They don't want to leave or change names.
Israel was identified by the mandate as a jewish homeland and Israel identifies as a jewish state. Israel was a logical choice for a name and the land is Israeli land and the people are Israeli.
Time you accept that.
You start with this statement.

"Palestine" is just a name of the mandate region.
That is not true. Palestine was a country (Palestine was called a country ten times in the mandate charter) that was defined by international borders. It had citizens as per international law, the Treaty of Lausanna, and the Palestine citizenship order of 1925.

The rest of your post follows false premise.




Nope as the treaties state the mandate of Palestine and never the nation of Palestine, take another close look tinny ?

And the treaty of Lausanne does not even mention Palestine, while the Palestine citizenship order endows palestinians with British palestinian citizenship
Where does it say that?



On the passports issued and in the order itself


A second important clause of the draft, later to be intensely debated, stated that the foreign relations of the Palestine government were to be undertaken by Great Britain, and the citizens of Palestine were entitled to British protection when outside of Palestine

The creation of Palestinian citizenship under an international mandate 1918-1925 openDemocracy


And the arab muslims rejected the Palestine citizenship order out of hand.

The Palestinian Arab Executive leadership unanimously rejected the citizenship legislation on the basis that it denied citizenship to native-born Palestinians while privileging Jewish immigrants, and that it neglected provisions for natural civil and political rights.
As the trustee for Palestine Britain had the obligation to facilitate travel and protection for the Palestinians. Palestine, however, never became a part of Britain and the Palestinians never became British.
--------------------
With regard to nationality of the inhabitants of mandated territories, in general, the Council of the League of Nations adopted the following resolution on 23 April 1923.

“(1) The status of the native inhabitants of a Mandated territory is distinct from that of the nationals of the Mandatory Power....
(2) The native inhabitants of a Mandated territory are not invested with the nationality of the Mandatory Power by means of the protection extended to them…”92
-----------------
It is true that the Treaty of Lausanna did not mention Palestine. It did not mention any of the new states.
-------------------
Drawing up the framework of nationality, Article 30 of the Treaty of Lausanne stated:

“Turkish subjects habitually resident in territory which in accordance with the provisions of the present Treaty is detached from Turkey will become ipso facto, in the conditions laid down by the local law, nationals of the State to which such territory is transferred.”​
----------------
This was reiterated in the citizenship order.
-----------------
The automatic, ipso facto, change from Ottoman to Palestinian nationality was dealt with in Article 1, paragraph 1, of the Citizenship Order, which declared:

“Turkish subjects habitually resident in the territory of Palestine upon the 1st day of August, 1925, shall become Palestinian citizens.”​
----------------
The Palestinians did reject the order because there was some junk that was placed in there without their consent.
 
Something to think about.....

"Palestine" is a Fake

By Kanan Abramson


The President of the Arab "Palestinian" Authority, Mahmoud Abbas, a member of the Fatah terror movement which launched endless terror attacks against Israel in over six decades, spoke at the General Assembly of the United Nations in New York City, demanding a recognition of an independent "Palestinian" statehood. One of the most outstanding responses to him was a statement delivered by Rabbis Marvin Hier, Founder and Dean of The Simon Wiesenthal Center in California, and Abraham Cooper, Associate Dean of the leading Jewish Human Rights NGO. Their statement was as followed:

"On the day he submitted demands for Palestinian Statehood, Abbas' words have driven hope for peace right off the Mideast roadmap. his speech provides all the evidence as to why there is no peace. His distorted view of history of the Holy Land, speaks of ‘the ascension of the Prophet Mohammad and the birthplace of Jesus Christ’, but has no room for Jewish prophets like Isaiah or Jeremiah or King David or King Solomon", charged Rabbis Marvin Hier and Abraham Cooper, Founder and dean and associate dean of the leading Jewish Human Rights NGO. And when Abbas uses the podium of the UN to charge that Arabs have been under occupation for 63 years, he lays bare before the entire world that the core issue for the Palestinians isn't Israeli settlements established as a result of the 1967 Six Day War, but the very legitimacy of Israel from the day of its founding in 1948. Simply put, his view of reality has no room for a Jewish state. Unless and until Arab leaders finally tell their people that they recognize the legitimacy of a Jewish State as neighbor to the 23 Arab countries there will be no peace", Rabbis Hier and Cooper concluded.

This is only one aspect of the conflict. It is very crucial to add many other aspects to the Israeli-Arab conflict. So to begin with, there’s the basic question: Who are the "Palestinians"?

It is a must to declare up-front that historically, the "Palestinians" are not - and never were - a people. They are a mixture of Arabs from all Israel’s neighboring Arab countries, who were brought at the end of the 19th century as hard labor by the Turks, who ruled then the Middle East, in order to trim the woods of Palestine, the Jewish homeland, for the purpose of using the trees as coal for the Turkish war trains in their war against the Brits which, eventually, they’ve lost. The British government, who eyed the Arab oil, initiated in 1918 an Arab Palestinian entity in order to jeopardize Zionism and to gain Arab sympathy. By this step they challenge the 1917‘s Balfour (then Britain’s Foreign Minister) Declaration which recognized Palestine as the Jewish homeland. It's all documented by the British Foreign Office.

The Arab countries, via the Arab League, who consider themselves as one big nation - "Umat el Arbiyeh" in Arabic - have all of a sudden created a new satellite nation to their big alliance in the shape of a newly born people out of nowhere - the "Palestinians".

Following the UN resolution of November 29th, 1947 to divide Western Palestine (west of the Jordan river) between Arabs and Jews, which the local Arabs have rejected and immediately after opened a violent war against the Jews of Palestine, which is titled as Israel’s Independence War, in which over 10,000 Jews have been killed and tens of thousands were injured.

In the midst of the violent attacks on the Jews, Israel, under Prime Minister David Ben Gurion, managed to reorganize and establish the Israel Defense Forces, today’s one of the strongest armies in the world. The next step was the establishment of The State of Israel on Friday, May 14th, 1948. The next day, Saturday, May 15th, huge and well equipped Arab armies - Egyptian, Syrian, Jordanian and Iraqi - invaded Israel with heavy armors and artilleries and attacked the Jewsih newly born state from all sides. The neighboring Arab governments called - over the radio and through flyers spread by airplanes - all the Arabs of Palestine to leave their homes for a couple of days until the Jews are thrown into the Mediterranean, then they would return and take over all the to be vacant Jewish properties. Hundreds of thousands of Arabs obeyed the calls and, in spite of Israel’s call to them to stay and live with the Jews in dignity, left for Lebanon, Syria, Jordan and Gaza strip, where they were denied citizenship and became the eternal "refugees" myth, even though they left willingly.

During the war, the huge Arab armies failed to throw the Jews into the Mediterranean. All the Arab states in the Middle East gathered and initiated a bitter moral campaign against Israel, using the Arabs who left their homes as so called "refugees", trying to turn the world against Israel for a human cause. The Jews, who for 1900 years were victims to all kinds of persecution, shook up and turned overnight into the best fighters in the world, leaving the Arabs losers and failures. In mid 1949, with the involvement of two UN mediators, Israel and its neighboring armies signed cease-fire agreements, setting the later known as the 1967 cease-fire lines between Israel and its neighboring Arab countries, set to mark where the armies stopped fighting for that cease-fire. Those lines have never been any kind of borders!

The agreements left Jordan occupying the then West Bank. No other agreement has been signed with Israel concerning the West Bank territory before the war of June of 1967. Both states have never changed the status of those cease-fire lines into permanent borders, nor did Jordan show any good will toward the Arabs living in that territory and hand over to them an independent state.

Now about Jerusalem which those Arabs calling themselves "Palestinians" claim as their holy capital. Jerusalem was never mentioned in the Kuran, nor was it ever any capital of the non-existing Arab-Palestinian state.

The moment Jordan joined Egypt and Syria in their threats to attack Israel in 1967, and after Israel launched a pre-attack and won the Six Day War, Jordan lost its control over the West Bank to Israel. The Arabs who live west of the Jordan river were never the owners of the Jewish homeland, yet were welcomed by Israel as guests and given tremendous rights and assistance, in spite of ongoing terror attacks on Jews which left thousands of innocent victims. Their claims for a statehood and ownership of this area are based on ongoing lies and false propaganda and their claims that Jerusalem is their holy capital is an outrageous lie. Each and every stone in the areas of Jerusalem and the West Bank have the fingerprints and footsteps of the Jews who have lived there for thousands of years until the Romans have expelled and spread them throughout the world.

Looking back at civilization history, no country was forced to hand back to aggressors and to its attackers its liberated homeland. Thus, Israel has the full historic and legal right to reoccupy its ancient homeland and no aggressor has the right to claim it. By the way, the historic name of the land is "Eretz Israel" - "The Land of Israel". The name Palestine was given to the land by the Romans after they've destroyed Jerusalem and the Holy Temple, in order to wipe out the names Israel and Judea from world awareness and history, so it would become forgotten with the time being. It was named after a tribe called Philistines, who lived thousands of years ago in ancient Ashquelon, north of Gaza. The Philistines had nothing to do with - and never were - today’s Arabs.

While the Arabs were unable to overcome the strength of Israel on the battle fields, in order to achieve their destructive anti-Israel goals, they turned their anti-Israel campaign into intensive, false propaganda and outrageous tons of lies.

The only solution to the Arabs who live west of the Jordan river and want an independent state is as follows: (background) When the British fought the Turks in the beginning of the 20th century, a Beduin tribe - the Hashemites, headed by Sheriff Hussein, the great-great-grandfather of today's King Abdullah - lost a war in the Arab Peninsula against the Saudi dynasty and fled north, to Palestine. They joined the British army in its war against the Turks who then ruled the Middle East. The Turks were defeated. As a result, the Brits have split the historic Palestine into two pieces - the area west of the Jordan river, now Israel, and the area east to the Jordan river, then named Trans-Jordan.

The Brits handed the eastern portion, meaning about 65% of Palestine, which became later a state by the name Jordan, to the Hashemite tribe from the Arab Peninsula. The smaller portion, between the Mediterranean and the Jordan river, was left for both Jews and Arabs who lived there. This 35% portion of Palestine is now under the threat of being cut once again into two pieces, in order to establish a third state within the historic Palestine. For the Arabs, creating that third state within Palestine will mean achieving the take-over of another major piece of historic Palestine toward their dream of taking over the entire Jewish homeland.

During the 20th century, many people were removed between countries worldwide due to agreements of peace which included Exchange of Populations. After Israel’s War of Independence, Israel absorbed nearly two million Jews, part of them holocaust survivors and others who were deported from all Arab countries in the Middle East. Before they were deported, those Jews were striped of all their assets which were confiscated by the local Arab governments. Israel, with the assistance of Jewish communities in the western world, managed to absorb all of those Jewish refugees and create for them new, dignified lives.

The fairest solution to all is to return first of all the confiscated assets to the Jewish refugees from Arab countries who were striped of them. The next step must be declaring Jordan as the Palestinian-Arab state, as about 85% of its current residents are Arabs from the area west of the Jordan river. Unfortunately for the current Hashemite king, Abdullah, he doesn't belong to Palestine and his artificial "kingdom" should be given to the "Palestinians" to become their state with the help of their Umat-el-Arbiyeh (The Big Arab Nation) who initiated the wars against Israel and lost them, thus solving the "Palestinian" problem.

Next must be stripping the local Arab terror organizations, like the Hamas, the Hisbullah, the Jihad and others of their massive weapons, sealing the channels through which arms are smuggled into Arab areas and "refugee camps". Otherwise, Israel will continue hammering those terror organizations and impose blockades, closures and sanctions against the "Palestinian" and their economy.

The Palestinian problem cannot be forced on Israel for solution. Israel cannot be liable for those problems which were created for over a century solely by the Arabs. It should not be forced to surrender its homeland just because others desire it for themselves as the first step toward throwing the Jews into the Mediterranean and turn the Middle East into Jewish-free.
 
Something to think about.....

"Palestine" is a Fake

By Kanan Abramson


The President of the Arab "Palestinian" Authority, Mahmoud Abbas, a member of the Fatah terror movement which launched endless terror attacks against Israel in over six decades, spoke at the General Assembly of the United Nations in New York City, demanding a recognition of an independent "Palestinian" statehood. One of the most outstanding responses to him was a statement delivered by Rabbis Marvin Hier, Founder and Dean of The Simon Wiesenthal Center in California, and Abraham Cooper, Associate Dean of the leading Jewish Human Rights NGO. Their statement was as followed:

"On the day he submitted demands for Palestinian Statehood, Abbas' words have driven hope for peace right off the Mideast roadmap. his speech provides all the evidence as to why there is no peace. His distorted view of history of the Holy Land, speaks of ‘the ascension of the Prophet Mohammad and the birthplace of Jesus Christ’, but has no room for Jewish prophets like Isaiah or Jeremiah or King David or King Solomon", charged Rabbis Marvin Hier and Abraham Cooper, Founder and dean and associate dean of the leading Jewish Human Rights NGO. And when Abbas uses the podium of the UN to charge that Arabs have been under occupation for 63 years, he lays bare before the entire world that the core issue for the Palestinians isn't Israeli settlements established as a result of the 1967 Six Day War, but the very legitimacy of Israel from the day of its founding in 1948. Simply put, his view of reality has no room for a Jewish state. Unless and until Arab leaders finally tell their people that they recognize the legitimacy of a Jewish State as neighbor to the 23 Arab countries there will be no peace", Rabbis Hier and Cooper concluded.

This is only one aspect of the conflict. It is very crucial to add many other aspects to the Israeli-Arab conflict. So to begin with, there’s the basic question: Who are the "Palestinians"?

It is a must to declare up-front that historically, the "Palestinians" are not - and never were - a people. They are a mixture of Arabs from all Israel’s neighboring Arab countries, who were brought at the end of the 19th century as hard labor by the Turks, who ruled then the Middle East, in order to trim the woods of Palestine, the Jewish homeland, for the purpose of using the trees as coal for the Turkish war trains in their war against the Brits which, eventually, they’ve lost. The British government, who eyed the Arab oil, initiated in 1918 an Arab Palestinian entity in order to jeopardize Zionism and to gain Arab sympathy. By this step they challenge the 1917‘s Balfour (then Britain’s Foreign Minister) Declaration which recognized Palestine as the Jewish homeland. It's all documented by the British Foreign Office.

The Arab countries, via the Arab League, who consider themselves as one big nation - "Umat el Arbiyeh" in Arabic - have all of a sudden created a new satellite nation to their big alliance in the shape of a newly born people out of nowhere - the "Palestinians".

Following the UN resolution of November 29th, 1947 to divide Western Palestine (west of the Jordan river) between Arabs and Jews, which the local Arabs have rejected and immediately after opened a violent war against the Jews of Palestine, which is titled as Israel’s Independence War, in which over 10,000 Jews have been killed and tens of thousands were injured.

In the midst of the violent attacks on the Jews, Israel, under Prime Minister David Ben Gurion, managed to reorganize and establish the Israel Defense Forces, today’s one of the strongest armies in the world. The next step was the establishment of The State of Israel on Friday, May 14th, 1948. The next day, Saturday, May 15th, huge and well equipped Arab armies - Egyptian, Syrian, Jordanian and Iraqi - invaded Israel with heavy armors and artilleries and attacked the Jewsih newly born state from all sides. The neighboring Arab governments called - over the radio and through flyers spread by airplanes - all the Arabs of Palestine to leave their homes for a couple of days until the Jews are thrown into the Mediterranean, then they would return and take over all the to be vacant Jewish properties. Hundreds of thousands of Arabs obeyed the calls and, in spite of Israel’s call to them to stay and live with the Jews in dignity, left for Lebanon, Syria, Jordan and Gaza strip, where they were denied citizenship and became the eternal "refugees" myth, even though they left willingly.

During the war, the huge Arab armies failed to throw the Jews into the Mediterranean. All the Arab states in the Middle East gathered and initiated a bitter moral campaign against Israel, using the Arabs who left their homes as so called "refugees", trying to turn the world against Israel for a human cause. The Jews, who for 1900 years were victims to all kinds of persecution, shook up and turned overnight into the best fighters in the world, leaving the Arabs losers and failures. In mid 1949, with the involvement of two UN mediators, Israel and its neighboring armies signed cease-fire agreements, setting the later known as the 1967 cease-fire lines between Israel and its neighboring Arab countries, set to mark where the armies stopped fighting for that cease-fire. Those lines have never been any kind of borders!

The agreements left Jordan occupying the then West Bank. No other agreement has been signed with Israel concerning the West Bank territory before the war of June of 1967. Both states have never changed the status of those cease-fire lines into permanent borders, nor did Jordan show any good will toward the Arabs living in that territory and hand over to them an independent state.

Now about Jerusalem which those Arabs calling themselves "Palestinians" claim as their holy capital. Jerusalem was never mentioned in the Kuran, nor was it ever any capital of the non-existing Arab-Palestinian state.

The moment Jordan joined Egypt and Syria in their threats to attack Israel in 1967, and after Israel launched a pre-attack and won the Six Day War, Jordan lost its control over the West Bank to Israel. The Arabs who live west of the Jordan river were never the owners of the Jewish homeland, yet were welcomed by Israel as guests and given tremendous rights and assistance, in spite of ongoing terror attacks on Jews which left thousands of innocent victims. Their claims for a statehood and ownership of this area are based on ongoing lies and false propaganda and their claims that Jerusalem is their holy capital is an outrageous lie. Each and every stone in the areas of Jerusalem and the West Bank have the fingerprints and footsteps of the Jews who have lived there for thousands of years until the Romans have expelled and spread them throughout the world.

Looking back at civilization history, no country was forced to hand back to aggressors and to its attackers its liberated homeland. Thus, Israel has the full historic and legal right to reoccupy its ancient homeland and no aggressor has the right to claim it. By the way, the historic name of the land is "Eretz Israel" - "The Land of Israel". The name Palestine was given to the land by the Romans after they've destroyed Jerusalem and the Holy Temple, in order to wipe out the names Israel and Judea from world awareness and history, so it would become forgotten with the time being. It was named after a tribe called Philistines, who lived thousands of years ago in ancient Ashquelon, north of Gaza. The Philistines had nothing to do with - and never were - today’s Arabs.

While the Arabs were unable to overcome the strength of Israel on the battle fields, in order to achieve their destructive anti-Israel goals, they turned their anti-Israel campaign into intensive, false propaganda and outrageous tons of lies.

The only solution to the Arabs who live west of the Jordan river and want an independent state is as follows: (background) When the British fought the Turks in the beginning of the 20th century, a Beduin tribe - the Hashemites, headed by Sheriff Hussein, the great-great-grandfather of today's King Abdullah - lost a war in the Arab Peninsula against the Saudi dynasty and fled north, to Palestine. They joined the British army in its war against the Turks who then ruled the Middle East. The Turks were defeated. As a result, the Brits have split the historic Palestine into two pieces - the area west of the Jordan river, now Israel, and the area east to the Jordan river, then named Trans-Jordan.

The Brits handed the eastern portion, meaning about 65% of Palestine, which became later a state by the name Jordan, to the Hashemite tribe from the Arab Peninsula. The smaller portion, between the Mediterranean and the Jordan river, was left for both Jews and Arabs who lived there. This 35% portion of Palestine is now under the threat of being cut once again into two pieces, in order to establish a third state within the historic Palestine. For the Arabs, creating that third state within Palestine will mean achieving the take-over of another major piece of historic Palestine toward their dream of taking over the entire Jewish homeland.

During the 20th century, many people were removed between countries worldwide due to agreements of peace which included Exchange of Populations. After Israel’s War of Independence, Israel absorbed nearly two million Jews, part of them holocaust survivors and others who were deported from all Arab countries in the Middle East. Before they were deported, those Jews were striped of all their assets which were confiscated by the local Arab governments. Israel, with the assistance of Jewish communities in the western world, managed to absorb all of those Jewish refugees and create for them new, dignified lives.

The fairest solution to all is to return first of all the confiscated assets to the Jewish refugees from Arab countries who were striped of them. The next step must be declaring Jordan as the Palestinian-Arab state, as about 85% of its current residents are Arabs from the area west of the Jordan river. Unfortunately for the current Hashemite king, Abdullah, he doesn't belong to Palestine and his artificial "kingdom" should be given to the "Palestinians" to become their state with the help of their Umat-el-Arbiyeh (The Big Arab Nation) who initiated the wars against Israel and lost them, thus solving the "Palestinian" problem.

Next must be stripping the local Arab terror organizations, like the Hamas, the Hisbullah, the Jihad and others of their massive weapons, sealing the channels through which arms are smuggled into Arab areas and "refugee camps". Otherwise, Israel will continue hammering those terror organizations and impose blockades, closures and sanctions against the "Palestinian" and their economy.

The Palestinian problem cannot be forced on Israel for solution. Israel cannot be liable for those problems which were created for over a century solely by the Arabs. It should not be forced to surrender its homeland just because others desire it for themselves as the first step toward throwing the Jews into the Mediterranean and turn the Middle East into Jewish-free.

Excellent. However there is a danger in presenting articles like this. If we educate the Pali supporters, they may leave us. Then where do we go for fun & laughs?
 
SUDDENLY THERE IS A PALESTINE AND PALESTINIANS

Did you ever notice that one of the hardest words for a zionist to utter or put into print is Palestinian? The word itself confirms that there is a Palestine.

News reports in the zionist media refer to Palestinians as Arabs, or at best, Israeli Arabs.

BUT, if any of the above are involved in a suspected terrorist attack there suddenly is a Palestine and Palestinians, except in the extreme right media as seen below.
btn5p0ziyaaxdnx.jpg


buolv5ncuaa4tsa.jpg

SUDDENLY THERE IS A PALESTINE AND PALESTINIANS Desertpeace
 
A Different Kind of Refugee
Written by Linda Gradstein
Published Monday, December 01, 2014


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Jews From Arab Countries Want Recognition of Refugee Status


It may have been 47 years ago but Yossef Carasso remembers every detail of the night that he was taken to an Egyptian police station from his home in the city of Tanta, near Cairo. It was the first night of the 1967 war.

“We were the only Jewish family still left in Tanta and at 10 p.m. there was a knock on the door,” Carasso told The Media Line. “The policeman told my father, “We’re looking for your son and son-in-law. They took us to a police station and left us there all night.”

Carasso, who was not accused of any crime, was among 400 Jews who were imprisoned in Egypt at the start of the war when Egypt, along with Syria and Jordan attacked Israel. For six months, he says, his parents didn’t know if he was still alive. Finally he was allowed to write to them.

Two years later he was released, and the next day he and his family left Egypt, originally for France and then for Israel. According to Justice for Jews from Arab Countries (JJAC), almost 120,000 Jews left Egypt in the 1950’s and 60’s. There are only a few dozen Jews left in Egypt today.

This week, he attended a ceremony at Israeli President Reuven Rivlin’s residence, designating November 30 as the national day of commemoration of the plight of Jewish refugees from Arab lands and Iran. According to the United Nations, about 850,000 Jews left their homes in Arab countries, more than the 750,000 Palestinians who became refugees with the creation of the state of Israel in 1948. The largest number of Arab Jews came from Morocco, Algeria and Iraq. Today half of all Israelis have roots in Arab countries, and are known as Mizrahi (Eastern) Jews as opposed to Ashkenazi Jews from eastern Europe.

The national day hopes to raise awareness in both Israel and abroad about the culture of the Jews from Arab countries, as well as to begin a discussion of the issue of compensation for all of the property the Jews left behind.

“We have a whole history that even my children don’t know,” Sylvain Abitboul, the co-president of JJAC told The Media Line. “Everybody is always talking about the Palestinian refugees, but we want the world to know there is another set of refugees.”

Abitboul, who was born in Morocco, immigrated to Canada at age 18, and became an active member of the Jewish community in Montreal, including a stint as the past president of the Montreal Jewish Federation.

Many of the Jews from Arab countries left extensive property in their home countries before they emigrated. Abitboul says the estimate is that the total is $300 billion in today’s dollars. In 2000, then President Clinton suggested establishing a fund that would compensate both Palestinian and Jewish refugees.

At the ceremony, President Rivlin, whose own roots in Israel date back to the early 1800’s and who is a quintessential Ashkenazi Jew, said Israel needed to do more to integrate Mizrahi history and culture. For many years, the Ashkenazim were seen as the elite, and dominated educational and cultural institutions.

“We have come together today to make amends for a historical injustice, against a million Jews, immigrants from Arab countries and Iran, who stories were pushed to the margins of the Zionist narrative,” Rivlin told the crowd at his residence. “Indeed this comes too late, on too small a scale and no longer has an impact on public consciousness. Yet, still it is important to seek the correction, which should not be underestimated.”

Many of the attendees said that when they first came to Israel, they were embarrassed by their Arabic accents. Their parents were shunted off to peripheral areas in the country and low-paying jobs.

But recently there has been a renewed interest in Mizrachi culture, including music and food.

“It’s quite astonishing to see the revival of the culture in Israel,” Lyn Julius, the founder of Harif, the UK-based Association of Jews from the Middle East and North Africa told The Media Line. “The grandchildren of Jews from Arab and Muslim countries are becoming interested in their roots. It’s now harder to find a bagel than it is to find kubbeh (a Moroccan dish of fried dough stuffed with meat) in Israel.”
SUDDENLY THERE IS A PALESTINE AND PALESTINIANS

Did you ever notice that one of the hardest words for a zionist to utter or put into print is Palestinian? The word itself confirms that there is a Palestine.

News reports in the zionist media refer to Palestinians as Arabs, or at best, Israeli Arabs.

BUT, if any of the above are involved in a suspected terrorist attack there suddenly is a Palestine and Palestinians, except in the extreme right media as seen below.
btn5p0ziyaaxdnx.jpg


buolv5ncuaa4tsa.jpg

SUDDENLY THERE IS A PALESTINE AND PALESTINIANS Desertpeace

Mandate was not a state, nor did it belong to only "palestinians". It was always to be use for the (re)foundation of a jewish state.
 
SUDDENLY THERE IS A PALESTINE AND PALESTINIANS

Did you ever notice that one of the hardest words for a zionist to utter or put into print is Palestinian? The word itself confirms that there is a Palestine.

News reports in the zionist media refer to Palestinians as Arabs, or at best, Israeli Arabs.

BUT, if any of the above are involved in a suspected terrorist attack there suddenly is a Palestine and Palestinians, except in the extreme right media as seen below.
btn5p0ziyaaxdnx.jpg


buolv5ncuaa4tsa.jpg

SUDDENLY THERE IS A PALESTINE AND PALESTINIANS Desertpeace

HUH??? Why of course there is a PALESTINE. Among the natives were JEWS & not a single Muslim anywhere to be found. When did the Muslim Palestinians start invading Israel's land?
 
That has to be one of the funniest articles I have read on this forum! That 'neutral' source was excellent... I must find 'neutral' sources like that to support Palestinians. Thanks for the laugh...
"So far from being persecuted, the Arabs have crowded into the country and multiplied till their population has increased more than even all world Jewry could lift up the Jewish population." Winnie Churchill
Happy laughin'.
 
That has to be one of the funniest articles I have read on this forum! That 'neutral' source was excellent... I must find 'neutral' sources like that to support Palestinians. Thanks for the laugh...
"So far from being persecuted, the Arabs have crowded into the country and multiplied till their population has increased more than even all world Jewry could lift up the Jewish population." Winnie Churchill
Happy laughin'.

And your point being?
 
That has to be one of the funniest articles I have read on this forum! That 'neutral' source was excellent... I must find 'neutral' sources like that to support Palestinians. Thanks for the laugh...
"So far from being persecuted, the Arabs have crowded into the country and multiplied till their population has increased more than even all world Jewry could lift up the Jewish population." Winnie Churchill
Happy laughin'.
And your point being?
Palistanians should embrace their settling-squatting origins, that, in turn, hopefully should cure their mass psychological and psychiatric disorders and issues, and enlighten them enough to get a life and a job, of course. Hopefully so.
 
Humanity, et al,

I read it as well. There is a technical mistake in the commentary; within the first question.

“Why is it that on June 4th 1967 I was a Jordanian and overnight I became a Palestinian?”
“We did not particularly mind Jordanian rule. The teaching of the destruction of Israel was a definite part of the curriculum, but we considered ourselves Jordanian until the Jews returned to Jerusalem. Then all of the sudden we were Palestinians - they removed the star from the Jordanian flag and all at once we had a Palestinian flag”.
“When I finally realized the lies and myths I was taught, it is my duty as a righteous person to speak out”.

Any Arab-Palestinian would have caught this error.

Palestinian Myths
More on origin of modern palestinians
That has to be one of the funniest articles I have read on this forum!
That 'neutral' source was excellent... I must find 'neutral' sources like that to support Palestinians
Thanks for the laugh...
(COMMENT)

The inhabitants of the West Bank were Jordanian Citizens as of April 1950.

"On April 11, 1950, elections were held for a new Jordanian parliament in which the Palestinian Arabs of the West Bank were equally represented. Thirteen days later, Parliament unanimously approved a motion to unite the two banks of the Jordan River, constitutionally expanding the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan in order to safeguard what was left of the Arab territory of Palestine from further Zionist expansion." Source: Jordanian History Website @ http://www.kinghussein.gov.jo/his_palestine.html#Unification of the Two Banks

They maintained Jordanian Citizenship through July 1988.

"Finally, on July 31 King Hussein announced the severance of all administrative and legal ties with the occupied West Bank. Accordingly, electoral districts were redrawn to represent East Bank constituencies only. This disengagement decision marks the turning point that launched the current democratic process, and began a new stage in Jordan’s relationship with West Bank Palestinians." Source: Jordanian History Website @ http://www.kinghussein.gov.jo/his_periods9.html

This idea that the Palestinian conversion happened overnight is a misinterpretation of the facts to the events as they occurred. The West Bank inhabitants established citizenship with the State of Palestine in November 1988.

1. Acknowledges the proclamation of the State of Palestine LINK> by the Palestine National Council on 15 November 1988;

2. Affirms the need to enable the Palestinian people to exercise their sovereignty over their territory occupied since 1967;

3. Decides that, effective as of 15 December 1988, the designation "Palestine" should be used in place of the designation "Palestine Liberation Organization" in the United Nations system, without prejudice to the observer status and functions of the Palestine Liberation Organization within the United Nations system, in conformity with relevant United Nations resolutions and practice;

4. Requests the Secretary-General to take the necessary action to implement the present resolution.

Source: UN Resolution A/RES/43/177 15 December 1988

This is a very common mistake made by agenda driven people engaging in some sort of propaganda effort. I've seen this over and over again; copied and repeated. The significants eludes the writers. Yet it is all important. This should be required reading for every Palestinian --- everyone who claims to be a citizen of Palestine. It is important to note what it means to say one is a "Palestinian."

Most Respectfully,
R
 
15th post
That has to be one of the funniest articles I have read on this forum! That 'neutral' source was excellent... I must find 'neutral' sources like that to support Palestinians. Thanks for the laugh...
"So far from being persecuted, the Arabs have crowded into the country and multiplied till their population has increased more than even all world Jewry could lift up the Jewish population." Winnie Churchill
Happy laughin'.

Now the facts on immigration, not political hyperbole from Churchill in parliament. From the Survey of Palestine Vol. 1 page 17. From 1920-1946 of the 414,456 legal and illegal immigrants 376,415 were Jews and only 38,041 were non-Jews some of which were probably not even Arab. The Survey for Palestine is available for download from the Berman Jewish Policy Archive of NYU and Wagner Universities. Home Berman Jewish Policy Archive NYU Wagner
Immigration 1920-1946.webp
 
That has to be one of the funniest articles I have read on this forum! That 'neutral' source was excellent... I must find 'neutral' sources like that to support Palestinians. Thanks for the laugh...
"So far from being persecuted, the Arabs have crowded into the country and multiplied till their population has increased more than even all world Jewry could lift up the Jewish population." Winnie Churchill
Happy laughin'.
And your point being?
Palistanians should embrace their settling-squatting origins, that, in turn, hopefully should cure their mass psychological and psychiatric disorders and issues, and enlighten them enough to get a life and a job, of course. Hopefully so.

As soon as Israel turned the wasteland into a thriving metropoplis, here came the hoards of Palestinians to claim it's their land.
 
That has to be one of the funniest articles I have read on this forum! That 'neutral' source was excellent... I must find 'neutral' sources like that to support Palestinians. Thanks for the laugh...
"So far from being persecuted, the Arabs have crowded into the country and multiplied till their population has increased more than even all world Jewry could lift up the Jewish population." Winnie Churchill
Happy laughin'.
And your point being?
Palistanians should embrace their settling-squatting origins, that, in turn, hopefully should cure their mass psychological and psychiatric disorders and issues, and enlighten them enough to get a life and a job, of course. Hopefully so.

As soon as Israel turned the wasteland into a thriving metropoplis, here came the hoards of Palestinians to claim it's their land.

As the record shows, it is patently untrue as it was the Jewish hordes from Europe that outstripped the non-Jewish immigrants about 10 to 1.

"From 1920-1946 of the 414,456 legal and illegal immigrants 376,415 were Jews and only 38,041 were non-Jews some of which were probably not even Arab. The Survey for Palestine is available for download from the Berman Jewish Policy Archive of NYU and Wagner Universities. Home Berman Jewish Policy Archive NYU Wagner

Immigration 1920-1946.webp
 
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