Who Are The Palestinians?

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Challenger, et al,

The use of this particular (Non-Binding) 1982 Resolution (A/RES/37/43) is --- all by itself --- problematic. Thinking in terms of the reality in 1982, what did we have. Many Palestinian groups have been involved in politically motivated violence; but none more infamous than the Palestinian Liberation Organization (PLO). And the PLO organization had but one purpose --- the "liberation of Palestine" through armed struggle (Armed struggle is the only way to liberate Palestine; with the boundaries it had during the British Mandate, is an indivisible territorial unit.). This of course, meant the disillusionment of the 1948 State of Israel. In 1982, it was the view of the PLO that the partition of Palestine in 1947, and the establishment of the State of Israel were entirely illegal. That the UN had no right to allow and then recognize the State of Israel. In effect the PLO view was that the Balfour Declaration, the San Remo Convention, the Palestine Order in Council and the Mandate for Palestine, and everything that has been based on them, are deemed null and void. AND the PLO had rejected all solutions which were substitutes, or alternatives, for the total liberation of Palestine.

In 1982, the State of Palestine had not been created yet.

The PLO had not declared Independence until 1988.
In 1982, this UN Resolution advocated the support of the PLO, a Palestinian Terrorist organization.
  • Airliner hijackings had been an element in the PLO's strategy since 1967. In retaliation against an attack on an El Al airliner in Athens in 1968, Israel mounted a helicopter raid against the Beirut International Airport, destroying thirteen Arab-owned aircraft. A number of deadly terrorist incidents and guerrilla attacks against Israeli West Bank settlements occurred during the 1970s. In an attempt at hostage-taking, the Black September group, an extremist faction of Al Fatah, killed eleven Israeli athletes at the Munich Olympics in 1972. A climax in the terrorist campaign occurred in March 1978, when Al Fatah raiders landed on the Israeli coast south of Haifa, attacking a bus and cars on the Tel Aviv-Haifa highway. Thirty-five Israelis were killed and at least seventy-four were wounded. In reaction to the highway attack, the IDF launched Operation Litani in April 1978, a three-month expedition to clear the PLO guerrillas from Lebanese border areas. Within one week, the strong IDF force had driven back The PLO and established complete control in southern Lebanon up to the Litani River.
  • The UN has felt the coercive impact of asymmetric Palestinian political violence and Palestinian hostile behaviors intended or calculated to provoke or alter the politics on the ground, for Palestinian political purposes.
In 1982, the PLO was sole legitimate representative of the Palestinian people.​

rhodescholar, Challenger, et al,

How interesting --- that you should ask this question.

No, it's called rational human behaviour when threatened with occupation, oppression, humiliation and ...
Is there a single minority in the entire mideast not under attack by arab muslims?
(OBSEVATION)
Just earlier this weak, I had coffee with a few friends, discussing the issues of the world, and a very similar question emerged.
Is it more accurate to say radical Muslims (relates to a person who follows the religion of Islam, a monotheistic Abrahamic religion based on the Quran) or should it be radical Islam (Islam is a monotheistic religion (believe to be revelations from God, as articulated by the 7th Century prophet Muhammad (PBUH) in the Koran)?

(COMMENT)

First, on the question of rational behaviors --- a series of decision-making processes that are based on making choices that result in the most optimal level of benefit or utility for the decision makers. In this case, the Arabs of Palestine have (for nearly a century) consistently made decisions and acted upon them with less than desirable consequences. The decision made by the Hostile Arab Palestinians (HoAP) have resulted in outcomes that have not been the most optimal or beneficial to the greater Palestinian constituency; either politically, economically and culturally. So I think that applying the concepts of rational behavior to the HoAP which Jihadist activity and asymmetric warfare against the territorial integrity and political independence of the UN recognized State of Israel, is inconsistent with Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs for the general constituency and the central theme behind Rational Behavior.

When one looks at the Muslim (as the practitioner) or Islam (as the religion practiced) relative to the number of number and magnitude of the world wide conflicts in the last five years (since 2011), one notices a distinct common thread. But the question needs to be asked more bluntly:

1. Afghanistan Extreme radical Fundamentalist Muslim terrorist groups (Taliban, Islamic fundamentalist political movement )
2. Bosnia Serbian Orthodox Christians, Roman Catholic, Muslims
3. Cote d'Ivoire Muslims, Indigenous, Christians
4. Cyprus Christians & Muslims
5. East Timor Christians & Muslims
6. Indonesia, province of Ambon Christians & Muslims
7. Kashmir Hindus and Muslims
8. Kosovo Serbian Orthodox Christians, Muslims
9. Kurdistan Christians, Muslims Assaults on Christians
10. Macedonia Macedonian Orthodox Christians & Muslims
11. Middle East Israel vs Palestinian Jihadist
12. Nigeria Christians, Animists, & Muslims
13. Pakistan Suni & Shi'ite Muslims
14. Philippines Christians & Muslims
15. Chechnya Russian Orthodox Christians, Muslims.
16. Serbia, province of Vojvodina Serbian Orthodox & Roman Catholics, Muslims
17. Sri Lanka Buddhists & Hindus Tamils, Muslims
18. Thailand: Pattani province: Buddists and Muslims
19. Bangladesh: Muslim-Hindu (Bengalis) and Buddists (Chakmas)
20. Tajikistan: intra-Islamic conflict
21. Islamic State conflicts (Syria, Iraq)​

Is it the Muslim (as the practitioner) that is responsible for these radical conflicts? Or, is it Islam (as the religion practiced) that spreads the hostility and conflict? If we adopt the one perspective --- the answer becomes: The Islamic Koran does not kill people --- Muslims do! In the opposite perspective you see the defense that several prominent Palestinian leaders have adopted: "The dilemma --- Does Muslim follow what believe believes to be the devine will? Or, does the Muslims adopt a more ethical interpretation of the Koran; one less violent?

Have Muslims (as the practitioners) destroyed their ability to discern right from wrong in their activities? Are the moral values of the Muslim so corrupted that they cannot distinguish right from wrong --- unable to challenge the inspiration of the Koran against evil deeds?


Most Respectfully,
R

Nevertheless, it remains a rational response when threatened with occupation, oppression, humiliation and brutality on a daily basis. It's what the Polish AK, French FFI and Maquis, Legion Belge, Czech UVOD, Danish Freedom Council, Greek Democratic National Army and ELAS & EDES and many, many more resistance organisations did during WW2. All of them were called Terrorists by the Nazis. The right to resist, as you well know, is enshrined in International Law included in several UN resolutions on the subject, i.e.

"2. Reaffirms the legitimacy of the struggle of peoples for independence, territorial integrity, national unity and liberation from colonial and foreign domination and foreign occupation by all available means, including armed struggle" A RES 37 43. Importance of the universal realization of the right of peoples to self-determination and of the speedy granting of independence to colonial countries and peoples for the effective guarantee and observance of human rights
(COMMENT)

In 1982, the UN had altered its path and reverse its decision on Partition Plan of 1947 [A/RES 181(II)] due to wide spread asymmetric pressures and began to endorse violence or threats of violence by certain Palestinian actors as moral and justified; AND, to condemn an entire segment of population (the Israelis). The UN had adopted, indirectly, the Arab League policy that:

It is the right of the people to combat foreign occupation and aggression by whatever means, including armed struggle, in order to liberate their territories and secure their right to self-determination, and independence and to do so in such a manner as to preserve the territorial integrity of each Arab country, of the foregoing being in accordance with the purposes and principles of the Charter of the United Nations and with the Organization's resolutions.​

The clause "by whatever means, including armed struggle," or the phrase "by all available means" are adopted by the Arabs through UN endorsement and seen in a number of UN Resolutions, leading up to 1982, including (but not all inclusive):
The significance of this did not go unnoticed. The pro-Palestinians activists had manage to intimidate the UN membership through other pressure points. The collapse of OPEC's pricing structure in December 1980 inspired the Saudis to use $32 per barrel marker, while others oil producing nations use a $36 per barrel benchmark structure. The US had just come out of the oil crisis really began in 1973. What we see in this crisis is the fact that prices of commodities like oil play a much more vital role in our economy than most think --- and can impact political policy. In October of 1973 OPEC stopped exports to the US and other western nations to punish the support of Israel, they realized the strong influence that they had on the world through oil. The immediate results of the Oil Crisis were dramatic. Prices of gasoline quadrupled, rising from just 25 cents to over a dollar in just a few months. OPEC (Arab Nations) meant to punish the western nations that supported Israel, their foe (Israel), in the Yom Kippur War (Arab surprise attack in 1973), and began to really exercise the strong influence that they had on the world through oil and the cartel structure. One of the many results of the embargo was higher oil prices all throughout the western world, particularly in America. And the US had to find some way to appease the Oil Producing Nations until the US could stabilize the situations and put in place a work-arounds. This was the backdrop to through this 1970's period --- building toward the 1982 decolonization concepts.

One of the undesirable and unintentional consequences of the wide-spread adoption of "by any means" is its application to the justification of Arab terrorism, as a subset of the concept of: "including armed struggle," --- or --- "by all available means" as it was now being condoned by the UN. There was an attempt by some nations to off-set and soften this precedent, on the use of force, through the adoption of the 1970 Declaration on Principles of International Law concerning Friendly Relations and Co-operation among States [A/RES/25/2625 (XXV)] the month before the adoption of [A/RES/2649 (XXV)] but it proved to be ineffective; the damage was done. By a quirk of fate, the UN had supported --- in concept --- the PLO policy that Fedayeen (irregular insurgents) may take any action they deem "necessary," which constitutes the nucleus of the popular, romanticized and glorified Palestinian War of Liberation (Islamic Martyrs). This induced an escalation in the comprehensive use of terrorism which would not fall under the customary international humanitarian laws. It ever provided some legitimacy for the assassination attempts on the Hashemite King ---- and reset the insurrection of the lawful government to Jordanian Civil War that began in September 1970 and ended in July of 1971. The Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan could little afford to be one of those Governments that give the right to self-determination to the Palestinian peoples --- or recognize any entitlement to overthrow "by whatever means necessary," alien domination.

(STATUS QUO)

It is not likely that, with the exception of some radical elements, the Israeli conflict over the Status of the Occupied Territories is going to ignite a wider conflict. The Arab/Muslim/Islamic world already has more than it can chew. And it is unlikely that the continuation of the
status quo in the occupation Palestinian territories (oPt) (a total of 6,020 sq km) will bring any more political discomfort on Israel ---- than say ---- the Russia's decision to ruled out the return of Crimea (27, 000 sq km), three times larger than the oPt, back to the Ukraine. Russia annexed Crimea on March 18, 2014. Nor is the People's Republic of China (PRC) ever going to allow the Island of Taiwan to exercise the right of self-determination. The PRC has threatened the use of military force as a response to any formal declaration of Taiwanese independence. Israel's actions are not without precedent.

Most Respectfully,
R

Nice bit of nuanced context thrown in there, ignoring the pressures put upon the original member states by the US to vote to recognise the 1948 partition and subsequently the state of Israel, but that's top be expected. None of the above, however invalidates the right to armed resistance against a despotic regime imposed against the will of the people. Remember this?

"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.--That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, --That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.-"





So where in international law does it say that civilians can be targeted by terrorist attacks, predominantly children. If it does then there are no such things as war crimes and Israel can not be demonised when they flatten gaza.
 
Who are the Palestinians?

Lamis Deek



AminHussain




Q&A






No such thing as right of return, it is not a legal concept



The surrounding Arab countries to Israel have proven they sure know that very well indeed. NO RIGHT OF RETURN for their Palestinians.


Since the Christians and Muslims of Palestine are indigenous to Palestine, how could they have a right of return to another country?



LMAO! Don't this beat all folks from Monte? Must be a good year for them poppies. Heh Heh!
 
Who are the Palestinians?

Lamis Deek



AminHussain




Q&A






No such thing as right of return, it is not a legal concept



The surrounding Arab countries to Israel have proven they sure know that very well indeed. NO RIGHT OF RETURN for their Palestinians.


Since the Christians and Muslims of Palestine are indigenous to Palestine, how could they have a right of return to another country?



LMAO! Don't this beat all folks from Monte? Must be a good year for them poppies. Heh Heh!


When you are shown to be a propaganda monger, you really lose it, knucklehead.
 
Who are the Palestinians?

Lamis Deek



AminHussain




Q&A






No such thing as right of return, it is not a legal concept



The surrounding Arab countries to Israel have proven they sure know that very well indeed. NO RIGHT OF RETURN for their Palestinians.


Since the Christians and Muslims of Palestine are indigenous to Palestine, how could they have a right of return to another country?



LMAO! Don't this beat all folks from Monte? Must be a good year for them poppies. Heh Heh!


When you are shown to be a propaganda monger, you really lose it, knucklehead.



Now now Monte. Don't get so upset by the truth. When all that's left for you is to call the adversary names, you lose. Just thank God every day for his mercy in sparing you the ravages of intelligence.
 
Who are the Palestinians?

Lamis Deek



AminHussain




Q&A






No such thing as right of return, it is not a legal concept



The surrounding Arab countries to Israel have proven they sure know that very well indeed. NO RIGHT OF RETURN for their Palestinians.


Since the Christians and Muslims of Palestine are indigenous to Palestine, how could they have a right of return to another country?


And so are the Jews, as proven by lineage and genetic testing.
 
Who are the Palestinians?

Lamis Deek



AminHussain




Q&A






No such thing as right of return, it is not a legal concept



The surrounding Arab countries to Israel have proven they sure know that very well indeed. NO RIGHT OF RETURN for their Palestinians.


Since the Christians and Muslims of Palestine are indigenous to Palestine, how could they have a right of return to another country?


And so are the Jews, as proven by lineage and genetic testing.


No, genetic testing proves no such thing.
 
Who are the Palestinians?

Lamis Deek



AminHussain




Q&A






No such thing as right of return, it is not a legal concept



The surrounding Arab countries to Israel have proven they sure know that very well indeed. NO RIGHT OF RETURN for their Palestinians.


Since the Christians and Muslims of Palestine are indigenous to Palestine, how could they have a right of return to another country?


And so are the Jews, as proven by lineage and genetic testing.


No, genetic testing proves no such thing.


Yes it does. Extensive testing has been done and it proves it. Go argue with the geneticists who performed the tests, namely the University of Arizona.
 
No such thing as right of return, it is not a legal concept


The surrounding Arab countries to Israel have proven they sure know that very well indeed. NO RIGHT OF RETURN for their Palestinians.

Since the Christians and Muslims of Palestine are indigenous to Palestine, how could they have a right of return to another country?

And so are the Jews, as proven by lineage and genetic testing.

No, genetic testing proves no such thing.

Yes it does. Extensive testing has been done and it proves it. Go argue with the geneticists who performed the tests, namely the University of Arizona.

The 2000 Ostrer study is out of date. Given Zionist trace "Jewishness" through the Maternal line this 2013 study makes most Ashkenazis Europeans.

"Overall, they claim, at least 80 percent of Ashkenazi maternal ancestry comes from women indigenous to Europe while 8 percent originated in the Near East, with the rest uncertain." Ashkenazi Jewish women descended mostly from Italian converts new study asserts Genetic Literacy Project
 
Who are the Palestinians?

Lamis Deek



AminHussain




Q&A






No such thing as right of return, it is not a legal concept



The surrounding Arab countries to Israel have proven they sure know that very well indeed. NO RIGHT OF RETURN for their Palestinians.


Since the Christians and Muslims of Palestine are indigenous to Palestine, how could they have a right of return to another country?





So when did these so called indigenous first start calling themselves Palestinians and not Syrians or Egyptians. As the demographics show it was a physical impossibility for the arab muslims to increase their numbers by natural means. The only way to do it was by illegal immigration.

So do explain how girls of 12 were getting pregnant with quads every 9 months and no on was dying for 15 years ?
 
Who are the Palestinians?

Lamis Deek



AminHussain




Q&A






No such thing as right of return, it is not a legal concept



The surrounding Arab countries to Israel have proven they sure know that very well indeed. NO RIGHT OF RETURN for their Palestinians.


Since the Christians and Muslims of Palestine are indigenous to Palestine, how could they have a right of return to another country?


And so are the Jews, as proven by lineage and genetic testing.


No, genetic testing proves no such thing.






Is that because the few genetic tests done on the arab muslims show they are not from Palestine at all but from Syria and Egypt. Before those results were known team Palestine used genetic testing as a lever to remove the Jews from Israel, and it failed because the tests show they are related to the Jews who never moved.
As I keep telling you the arab muslims a closer related to pigs, dogs apes and bananas than they are the Jews.
 
The surrounding Arab countries to Israel have proven they sure know that very well indeed. NO RIGHT OF RETURN for their Palestinians.

Since the Christians and Muslims of Palestine are indigenous to Palestine, how could they have a right of return to another country?

And so are the Jews, as proven by lineage and genetic testing.

No, genetic testing proves no such thing.

Yes it does. Extensive testing has been done and it proves it. Go argue with the geneticists who performed the tests, namely the University of Arizona.

The 2000 Ostrer study is out of date. Given Zionist trace "Jewishness" through the Maternal line this 2013 study makes most Ashkenazis Europeans.

"Overall, they claim, at least 80 percent of Ashkenazi maternal ancestry comes from women indigenous to Europe while 8 percent originated in the Near East, with the rest uncertain." Ashkenazi Jewish women descended mostly from Italian converts new study asserts Genetic Literacy Project




COWFLOP I bet this took you hours to find ?
 
Challenger, et al,

I admire your use of the American Declaration of Independence; and your application of it in this argument. As I said, the concept behind the undoing of colonialism [decolonization (A/RES/37/43)], where Israel is accused of establishing and maintaining its domination over dependent territories [the occupied Palestinian territories (oPt)] is --- all by itself --- problematic.

THUMBNAIL FOUNDATION:
The 1988 State of Palestine, --- [referred to as their sovereignty over their territory occupied since 1967--- in the UN Acknowledgement of 1988, and in the (2012) decision to accord to Palestine non-member observer State status in the United Nations] --- has already exercised the capacity to conclude treaties; THEN: the Arab Palestinian has already exercised their sovereignty over their territory. This is evidence that the State of Israel has not diminished the Arab Palestinian capacity. It is evidence that the State of Israel has not denied the Arab Palestinian in their right to self-determination, independence, territorial integrity, national unity and liberation from foreign occupation.

If, on the other hand, the Arab Palestinian claim that the State of Israel has denied the people of the 1988 State of Palestine their right to self-determination, denoed their establishment of a government, stopped them from declaring national independence, or establishing territorial integrity --- and national unity and sovereignty without external interference; THEN, there is no State of Palestine, and the State of Israel holds all capacities of a state for Palestine and the people of Palestine have no territory to protect the integrity of, no sovereignty extend over undefined borders, with no legitimate government to rule.​

The Arab Palestinian cannot have it both ways. The Arab Palestinians cannot hold the case that they have the capacity to act as an independent sovereign nation with the ability to declare independence, commit to borders, and have a defined population and government; and simultaneously claim that all these capacities are denied by the Israeli.

Challenger, et al,

The use of this particular (Non-Binding) 1982 Resolution (A/RES/37/43) is --- all by itself --- problematic. Thinking in terms of the reality in 1982, what did we have. Many Palestinian groups have been involved in politically motivated violence; but none more infamous than the Palestinian Liberation Organization (PLO). And the PLO organization had but one purpose --- the "liberation of Palestine" through armed struggle (Armed struggle is the only way to liberate Palestine; with the boundaries it had during the British Mandate, is an indivisible territorial unit.). This of course, meant the disillusionment of the 1948 State of Israel. In 1982, it was the view of the PLO that the partition of Palestine in 1947, and the establishment of the State of Israel were entirely illegal. That the UN had no right to allow and then recognize the State of Israel. In effect the PLO view was that the Balfour Declaration, the San Remo Convention, the Palestine Order in Council and the Mandate for Palestine, and everything that has been based on them, are deemed null and void. AND the PLO had rejected all solutions which were substitutes, or alternatives, for the total liberation of Palestine.

In 1982, the State of Palestine had not been created yet.

The PLO had not declared Independence until 1988.
In 1982, this UN Resolution advocated the support of the PLO, a Palestinian Terrorist organization.
  • Airliner hijackings had been an element in the PLO's strategy since 1967. In retaliation against an attack on an El Al airliner in Athens in 1968, Israel mounted a helicopter raid against the Beirut International Airport, destroying thirteen Arab-owned aircraft. A number of deadly terrorist incidents and guerrilla attacks against Israeli West Bank settlements occurred during the 1970s. In an attempt at hostage-taking, the Black September group, an extremist faction of Al Fatah, killed eleven Israeli athletes at the Munich Olympics in 1972. A climax in the terrorist campaign occurred in March 1978, when Al Fatah raiders landed on the Israeli coast south of Haifa, attacking a bus and cars on the Tel Aviv-Haifa highway. Thirty-five Israelis were killed and at least seventy-four were wounded. In reaction to the highway attack, the IDF launched Operation Litani in April 1978, a three-month expedition to clear the PLO guerrillas from Lebanese border areas. Within one week, the strong IDF force had driven back The PLO and established complete control in southern Lebanon up to the Litani River.
  • The UN has felt the coercive impact of asymmetric Palestinian political violence and Palestinian hostile behaviors intended or calculated to provoke or alter the politics on the ground, for Palestinian political purposes.
In 1982, the PLO was sole legitimate representative of the Palestinian people.​

rhodescholar, Challenger, et al,

How interesting --- that you should ask this question.

Is there a single minority in the entire mideast not under attack by arab muslims?
(OBSEVATION)
Just earlier this weak, I had coffee with a few friends, discussing the issues of the world, and a very similar question emerged.
Is it more accurate to say radical Muslims (relates to a person who follows the religion of Islam, a monotheistic Abrahamic religion based on the Quran) or should it be radical Islam (Islam is a monotheistic religion (believe to be revelations from God, as articulated by the 7th Century prophet Muhammad (PBUH) in the Koran)?

(COMMENT)

First, on the question of rational behaviors --- a series of decision-making processes that are based on making choices that result in the most optimal level of benefit or utility for the decision makers. In this case, the Arabs of Palestine have (for nearly a century) consistently made decisions and acted upon them with less than desirable consequences. The decision made by the Hostile Arab Palestinians (HoAP) have resulted in outcomes that have not been the most optimal or beneficial to the greater Palestinian constituency; either politically, economically and culturally. So I think that applying the concepts of rational behavior to the HoAP which Jihadist activity and asymmetric warfare against the territorial integrity and political independence of the UN recognized State of Israel, is inconsistent with Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs for the general constituency and the central theme behind Rational Behavior.

When one looks at the Muslim (as the practitioner) or Islam (as the religion practiced) relative to the number of number and magnitude of the world wide conflicts in the last five years (since 2011), one notices a distinct common thread. But the question needs to be asked more bluntly:

1. Afghanistan Extreme radical Fundamentalist Muslim terrorist groups (Taliban, Islamic fundamentalist political movement )
2. Bosnia Serbian Orthodox Christians, Roman Catholic, Muslims
3. Cote d'Ivoire Muslims, Indigenous, Christians
4. Cyprus Christians & Muslims
5. East Timor Christians & Muslims
6. Indonesia, province of Ambon Christians & Muslims
7. Kashmir Hindus and Muslims
8. Kosovo Serbian Orthodox Christians, Muslims
9. Kurdistan Christians, Muslims Assaults on Christians
10. Macedonia Macedonian Orthodox Christians & Muslims
11. Middle East Israel vs Palestinian Jihadist
12. Nigeria Christians, Animists, & Muslims
13. Pakistan Suni & Shi'ite Muslims
14. Philippines Christians & Muslims
15. Chechnya Russian Orthodox Christians, Muslims.
16. Serbia, province of Vojvodina Serbian Orthodox & Roman Catholics, Muslims
17. Sri Lanka Buddhists & Hindus Tamils, Muslims
18. Thailand: Pattani province: Buddists and Muslims
19. Bangladesh: Muslim-Hindu (Bengalis) and Buddists (Chakmas)
20. Tajikistan: intra-Islamic conflict
21. Islamic State conflicts (Syria, Iraq)​

Is it the Muslim (as the practitioner) that is responsible for these radical conflicts? Or, is it Islam (as the religion practiced) that spreads the hostility and conflict? If we adopt the one perspective --- the answer becomes: The Islamic Koran does not kill people --- Muslims do! In the opposite perspective you see the defense that several prominent Palestinian leaders have adopted: "The dilemma --- Does Muslim follow what believe believes to be the devine will? Or, does the Muslims adopt a more ethical interpretation of the Koran; one less violent?

Have Muslims (as the practitioners) destroyed their ability to discern right from wrong in their activities? Are the moral values of the Muslim so corrupted that they cannot distinguish right from wrong --- unable to challenge the inspiration of the Koran against evil deeds?


Most Respectfully,
R

Nevertheless, it remains a rational response when threatened with occupation, oppression, humiliation and brutality on a daily basis. It's what the Polish AK, French FFI and Maquis, Legion Belge, Czech UVOD, Danish Freedom Council, Greek Democratic National Army and ELAS & EDES and many, many more resistance organisations did during WW2. All of them were called Terrorists by the Nazis. The right to resist, as you well know, is enshrined in International Law included in several UN resolutions on the subject, i.e.

"2. Reaffirms the legitimacy of the struggle of peoples for independence, territorial integrity, national unity and liberation from colonial and foreign domination and foreign occupation by all available means, including armed struggle" A RES 37 43. Importance of the universal realization of the right of peoples to self-determination and of the speedy granting of independence to colonial countries and peoples for the effective guarantee and observance of human rights
(COMMENT)

In 1982, the UN had altered its path and reverse its decision on Partition Plan of 1947 [A/RES 181(II)] due to wide spread asymmetric pressures and began to endorse violence or threats of violence by certain Palestinian actors as moral and justified; AND, to condemn an entire segment of population (the Israelis). The UN had adopted, indirectly, the Arab League policy that:

It is the right of the people to combat foreign occupation and aggression by whatever means, including armed struggle, in order to liberate their territories and secure their right to self-determination, and independence and to do so in such a manner as to preserve the territorial integrity of each Arab country, of the foregoing being in accordance with the purposes and principles of the Charter of the United Nations and with the Organization's resolutions.​

The clause "by whatever means, including armed struggle," or the phrase "by all available means" are adopted by the Arabs through UN endorsement and seen in a number of UN Resolutions, leading up to 1982, including (but not all inclusive):
The significance of this did not go unnoticed. The pro-Palestinians activists had manage to intimidate the UN membership through other pressure points. The collapse of OPEC's pricing structure in December 1980 inspired the Saudis to use $32 per barrel marker, while others oil producing nations use a $36 per barrel benchmark structure. The US had just come out of the oil crisis really began in 1973. What we see in this crisis is the fact that prices of commodities like oil play a much more vital role in our economy than most think --- and can impact political policy. In October of 1973 OPEC stopped exports to the US and other western nations to punish the support of Israel, they realized the strong influence that they had on the world through oil. The immediate results of the Oil Crisis were dramatic. Prices of gasoline quadrupled, rising from just 25 cents to over a dollar in just a few months. OPEC (Arab Nations) meant to punish the western nations that supported Israel, their foe (Israel), in the Yom Kippur War (Arab surprise attack in 1973), and began to really exercise the strong influence that they had on the world through oil and the cartel structure. One of the many results of the embargo was higher oil prices all throughout the western world, particularly in America. And the US had to find some way to appease the Oil Producing Nations until the US could stabilize the situations and put in place a work-arounds. This was the backdrop to through this 1970's period --- building toward the 1982 decolonization concepts.

One of the undesirable and unintentional consequences of the wide-spread adoption of "by any means" is its application to the justification of Arab terrorism, as a subset of the concept of: "including armed struggle," --- or --- "by all available means" as it was now being condoned by the UN. There was an attempt by some nations to off-set and soften this precedent, on the use of force, through the adoption of the 1970 Declaration on Principles of International Law concerning Friendly Relations and Co-operation among States [A/RES/25/2625 (XXV)] the month before the adoption of [A/RES/2649 (XXV)] but it proved to be ineffective; the damage was done. By a quirk of fate, the UN had supported --- in concept --- the PLO policy that Fedayeen (irregular insurgents) may take any action they deem "necessary," which constitutes the nucleus of the popular, romanticized and glorified Palestinian War of Liberation (Islamic Martyrs). This induced an escalation in the comprehensive use of terrorism which would not fall under the customary international humanitarian laws. It ever provided some legitimacy for the assassination attempts on the Hashemite King ---- and reset the insurrection of the lawful government to Jordanian Civil War that began in September 1970 and ended in July of 1971. The Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan could little afford to be one of those Governments that give the right to self-determination to the Palestinian peoples --- or recognize any entitlement to overthrow "by whatever means necessary," alien domination.

(STATUS QUO)

It is not likely that, with the exception of some radical elements, the Israeli conflict over the Status of the Occupied Territories is going to ignite a wider conflict. The Arab/Muslim/Islamic world already has more than it can chew. And it is unlikely that the continuation of the
status quo in the occupation Palestinian territories (oPt) (a total of 6,020 sq km) will bring any more political discomfort on Israel ---- than say ---- the Russia's decision to ruled out the return of Crimea (27, 000 sq km), three times larger than the oPt, back to the Ukraine. Russia annexed Crimea on March 18, 2014. Nor is the People's Republic of China (PRC) ever going to allow the Island of Taiwan to exercise the right of self-determination. The PRC has threatened the use of military force as a response to any formal declaration of Taiwanese independence. Israel's actions are not without precedent.

Most Respectfully,
R

Nice bit of nuanced context thrown in there, ignoring the pressures put upon the original member states by the US to vote to recognise the 1948 partition and subsequently the state of Israel, but that's top be expected. None of the above, however invalidates the right to armed resistance against a despotic regime imposed against the will of the people. Remember this?

"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.--That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, --That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.-"

(COMMENT)

The Arab Palestinians need to come together and effectively change their government such that peaceful negotiations might be achieved. It is clear that IF the Arabs of Palestine wants to "establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity," THEN they need something other than the type and kind of leadership they have had since 1948.

Most Respectfully,
R

The Palestinians have been negotiating in good faith for decades; and as has recently been confirmed by Nethanyahu, the Zionists never have.
 
15th post
Since the Christians and Muslims of Palestine are indigenous to Palestine, how could they have a right of return to another country?

And so are the Jews, as proven by lineage and genetic testing.

No, genetic testing proves no such thing.

Yes it does. Extensive testing has been done and it proves it. Go argue with the geneticists who performed the tests, namely the University of Arizona.

The 2000 Ostrer study is out of date. Given Zionist trace "Jewishness" through the Maternal line this 2013 study makes most Ashkenazis Europeans.

"Overall, they claim, at least 80 percent of Ashkenazi maternal ancestry comes from women indigenous to Europe while 8 percent originated in the Near East, with the rest uncertain." Ashkenazi Jewish women descended mostly from Italian converts new study asserts Genetic Literacy Project




COWFLOP I bet this took you hours to find ?
Nope, I just typed in "Jewish genetic research University of Arizona" The Genetic Literacy Project is impartial, i like it's by line, "Where science trumps Ideology"
 
Ok , then post what you find to be incorrect and refute it.

It's much easier to just whine and screech: "lies!" like a 4 year old, then be able to actually offer an original, rational debate point.

Like the article I linked to above, the idiot chimp thanks me for posting it, and then ignores it completely due to it obliterating the moron's entire Worldview.

This forum desperately needs better, smarter, more knowledgeable pro-arab posters, the ones here aren't capable of telling us how many suns the earth orbits.

Is it disappointing for you then that my world view remains unscathed by your pathetic quoting of 5 sentances of around 250 words from a 15 page thesis of over 8000 words which basically support the historical truth that by and large Jewish people were better off in Muslim areas than they were in Christian areas. Cecil must still be writhing in his grave in shame and disgust, if that's the best his Trust can produce.
 
No such thing as right of return, it is not a legal concept


The surrounding Arab countries to Israel have proven they sure know that very well indeed. NO RIGHT OF RETURN for their Palestinians.

Since the Christians and Muslims of Palestine are indigenous to Palestine, how could they have a right of return to another country?

And so are the Jews, as proven by lineage and genetic testing.

No, genetic testing proves no such thing.





Is that because the few genetic tests done on the arab muslims show they are not from Palestine at all but from Syria and Egypt. Before those results were known team Palestine used genetic testing as a lever to remove the Jews from Israel, and it failed because the tests show they are related to the Jews who never moved.
As I keep telling you the arab muslims a closer related to pigs, dogs apes and bananas than they are the Jews.
:bsflag:
 
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