Who are the Palestinians?

[MartyNYC]

Poor farming techniques also hampered America in the 1930's. That didn't give the future Israelis the right to Annex the land. The took that right by force of arms.

The international community, represented by the League of Nations, including both Houses of the US Congress, gave the “future Israelis” the right to the land, in its entirety. Jews were originally unarmed. Now, even you know.

 

[BlindBoo]

Was Mark Twain a Zionist propagandist? Or, you’re just a moron?

View attachment 756915

How a Mark Twain Travel Book Turned Palestine into a Desert

The Innocents Abroad, the most famous 19th-century account of Palestine, is in the end an elaborate, sustained joke at the expense of the peoples and places of the Mediterranean.

hyperallergic.com

Then, after spending more than 600 pages savaging all comers and making vicious comments about the inhabitants of the lands he visited, Twain concludes, “travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts.” It is a wonder that anyone could read this book and take Twain to be a reliable (and unironic) narrator on Palestine in the 19th century.

And yet, Twain played a major role in popularizing the image of desolate, empty Palestine. The Innocents Abroad is still widely quoted for this image today: both Alan Dershowitz and Benjamin Netanyahu, among others, have cited it, decidedly unironically. I remember once trying to convince a senior Jewish studies scholar that Twain exaggerated the desolation and emptiness of 19th-century Palestine. But Twain was certainly not alone in presenting this image. By the time he arrived in Palestine, many other visitors had made it a staple of 19th-century travel writing. Far from not seeing through the eyes of others, Twain’s desolate Palestine is one of the least original aspects of The Innocents Abroad.

How reliable are these images of desolation, exactly? For 19th-century travelers, Palestine was “like the inkblots in a Rorschach test,” in the words of historian Jonathan Sarna. As Twain himself observed, each Christian (whether Presbyterian, Baptist, Catholic, Methodist, Episcopalian) came to Palestine looking for — and finding — the Holy Land of their own denomination:

For many, desolation was not the primary image at all. Scottish artist David Roberts found “a richly cultivated country” in the area around Jaffa: “The ground is carpeted with flowers — the plain is studded with small villages and groups of palm-trees, and, independent of its interesting associations, the country is the loveliest I ever beheld.” A young Cyrus Adler, years before he became a leading figure in the American Jewish community, wrote of similar feelings in a letter to his mother:

I had one general impression of the great beauty of the country and little wonder that the Israelites fought so hard for it. The succession of hills and valleys and green fields. The ruins. The tremendous rocks. The piles of stone which have been collecting since ancient times all impressed me with the idea that this little country is one of the prettiest on earth.

So many factors influenced how people saw Palestine: where they were coming from, what parts of the country they saw, what travelers’ accounts they had already read, what religious tradition they were part of. Roberts visited the country in March, Adler in April — at the end of the rainy season, when (today as two centuries ago) the ground really is carpeted with flowers, and vivid greens surround you. Twain visited in September, when there has usually been no rain for months, and everything is brown and dry and dead. (Again, Twain highlighted this problem, but suggested that, even in springtime, there would only be patches of beauty within a sea of desolation.)

But desolate, empty Palestine won out. In historical scholarship, decline from a great and glorious past has come to be seen as one of the defining issues in the history of the region; only in the last 15 years or so have specialists in the history and archaeology of the region even begun to rethink this. Meanwhile, art historians and literary critics — who specialize in studying the nature of representation and reality — have led the way in recognizing that desolate Palestine has always been an imaginary construct.

The Innocents Abroad is, in the end, an elaborate, sustained joke: at the expense of the peoples and places of the Mediterranean, of Twain’s fellow travelers, of Twain himself. That it still helps people to take this desolate image of Palestine seriously, 150 years later, is perhaps Twain’s biggest, cruelest joke of all.

 

[BlindBoo]

Was Mark Twain a Zionist propagandist? Or, you’re just a moron?

Are you saying the Zionist were not excellent propagandists for their cause?

 

[BlindBoo]

The international community, represented by the League of Nations, including both Houses of the US Congress, gave the “future Israelis” the right to the land, in its entirety. Jews were originally unarmed. Now, even you know.

The League had no power to give land to anyone. Neither did the UN btw. In 1920 the Haganah was formed for protection after the riots. Were they unarmed?

 

[Lisa558]

The League had no power to give land to anyone. Neither did the UN btw. In 1920 the Haganah was formed for protection after the riots. Were they unarmed?

You liberals are in full support of black leaders advocating for their people, poor people advocating for taxpayers to give them more money, Muslim Democrats advocating for HAMAS, gays advocating for marriage rights, etc., etc., but when Jews, who were almost completely genocided in Europe advocate for their grieving survivors, all of a sodden it’s “propoganda?”

 

[Lisa558]

You liberals are in full support of black leaders advocating for their people, poor people advocating for taxpayers to give them more money, Muslim Democrats advocating for HAMAS, gays advocating for marriage rights, etc., etc., but when Jews, who were almost completely genocided in Europe advocate for their grieving survivors, all of a sodden it’s “propoganda?”

^^^ oops, this above was meant to respond to your remark about Zionist “propaganda.”

 

[BlindBoo]

You liberals are in full support of black leaders advocating for their people, poor people advocating for taxpayers to give them more money, Muslim Democrats advocating for HAMAS, gays advocating for marriage rights, etc., etc., but when Jews, who were almost completely genocided in Europe advocate for their grieving survivors, all of a sodden it’s “propoganda?”

Didn't the Zionists start migrating to Palestine around the turn of the century?

Absolutely excellent propagandists. How else could they convince half the world that the Middle East folks living in the Palestine Region should give up their land as compensation because of what Germany did throughout Europe. That's some wickedly powerful propaganda.

 

[Lisa558]

Didn't the Zionists start migrating to Palestine around the turn of the century?

Absolutely excellent propagandist. How else could they convince half the world that the Middle East folks living in the Palestine Region should give up their land as compensation because of what Germany did throughout Europe. That's some wickedly powerful propaganda.

Jews were Israelis a thousand years before Islam, and they have considered it their homeland ever since then. Why is it that other people can migrate and even take land by force - which is done all over the world - and people only have an issue with it when Jews are involved.

 

[BlindBoo]

Jews were Israelis a thousand years before Islam, and they have considered it their homeland ever since then. Why is it that other people can migrate and even take land by force - which is done all over the world - and people only have an issue with it when Jews are involved.

I never once said I had an issue with them taking it by force in 1947-1948, since that is exactly what they did.

 

[Lisa558]

I never once said I had an issue with them taking it by force in 1947-1948, since that is exactly what they did.

The UN approved a partition plan, which the Arabs rejected. They were paid for their land, and Jews moved in. Then, in 1948, five Arab countries invaded Israel, but lost.

Arabs have massive amounts of land in the Middle East, and Israel is a little sliver. The only reason Muslims wage war on Israelis is because their religion teaches them to hate Jews.

 

[The Sage of Main Street]

If the Arabs didn’t despise the Jews so much, they would have taken the partition arrangement and let the suffering, grieving survivors of the attempted genocide resettle in their homeland. As it was, the Arabs got paid more than their arid land was worth - and the industrious Jews made it blossom.

Evolution's Sore Losers

The Paleonasties are savage and unproductive nomads, just like the Indigians the American frontiersmen removed. So Jews, and Americans in general, can't support the Israelis and honestly believe the lies told in Little Big Man and Dances With Wolves.

 

[The Sage of Main Street]

Under Arabs and Muslims, the area was a barren shithole, as British eyewitnesses recorded…

View attachment 756911

A Pit Stop for Desert Bandits

 

[MartyNYC]

Jews are very industrious and capable. That’s why our little tribe has survived millennium despite repeated attempts to genocide us, expel us, and otherwise persecute us

How a Mark Twain Travel Book Turned Palestine into a Desert

The Innocents Abroad, the most famous 19th-century account of Palestine, is in the end an elaborate, sustained joke at the expense of the peoples and places of the Mediterranean.

hyperallergic.com

Then, after spending more than 600 pages savaging all comers and making vicious comments about the inhabitants of the lands he visited, Twain concludes, “travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts.” It is a wonder that anyone could read this book and take Twain to be a reliable (and unironic) narrator on Palestine in the 19th century.

And yet, Twain played a major role in popularizing the image of desolate, empty Palestine. The Innocents Abroad is still widely quoted for this image today: both Alan Dershowitz and Benjamin Netanyahu, among others, have cited it, decidedly unironically. I remember once trying to convince a senior Jewish studies scholar that Twain exaggerated the desolation and emptiness of 19th-century Palestine. But Twain was certainly not alone in presenting this image. By the time he arrived in Palestine, many other visitors had made it a staple of 19th-century travel writing. Far from not seeing through the eyes of others, Twain’s desolate Palestine is one of the least original aspects of The Innocents Abroad.

How reliable are these images of desolation, exactly? For 19th-century travelers, Palestine was “like the inkblots in a Rorschach test,” in the words of historian Jonathan Sarna. As Twain himself observed, each Christian (whether Presbyterian, Baptist, Catholic, Methodist, Episcopalian) came to Palestine looking for — and finding — the Holy Land of their own denomination:

For many, desolation was not the primary image at all. Scottish artist David Roberts found “a richly cultivated country” in the area around Jaffa: “The ground is carpeted with flowers — the plain is studded with small villages and groups of palm-trees, and, independent of its interesting associations, the country is the loveliest I ever beheld.” A young Cyrus Adler, years before he became a leading figure in the American Jewish community, wrote of similar feelings in a letter to his mother:


So many factors influenced how people saw Palestine: where they were coming from, what parts of the country they saw, what travelers’ accounts they had already read, what religious tradition they were part of. Roberts visited the country in March, Adler in April — at the end of the rainy season, when (today as two centuries ago) the ground really is carpeted with flowers, and vivid greens surround you. Twain visited in September, when there has usually been no rain for months, and everything is brown and dry and dead. (Again, Twain highlighted this problem, but suggested that, even in springtime, there would only be patches of beauty within a sea of desolation.)

But desolate, empty Palestine won out. In historical scholarship, decline from a great and glorious past has come to be seen as one of the defining issues in the history of the region; only in the last 15 years or so have specialists in the history and archaeology of the region even begun to rethink this. Meanwhile, art historians and literary critics — who specialize in studying the nature of representation and reality — have led the way in recognizing that desolate Palestine has always been an imaginary construct.

The Innocents Abroad is, in the end, an elaborate, sustained joke: at the expense of the peoples and places of the Mediterranean, of Twain’s fellow travelers, of Twain himself. That it still helps people to take this desolate image of Palestine seriously, 150 years later, is perhaps Twain’s biggest, cruelest joke of all.

Was Herman Melville a “Zionist propagandist”? Or, once again, you’re just a moron?

 

[MartyNYC]

I never once said I had an issue with them taking it by force in 1947-1948, since that is exactly what they did.

Jews purchased the land, from Arabs. Now, you know, moron.

King Abdullah of Jordan: “It is made quite clear to all that the Arabs are as prodigal in selling their land (to Jews) as they are in useless wailing and weeping.” (“My Memoirs Completed,” 1978, pg. 98)

My Memoirs Completed

 

[MartyNYC]

The League had no power to give land to anyone. Neither did the UN btw. In 1920 the Haganah was formed for protection after the riots. Were they unarmed?

Haganah was formed to defend against Arab violence. Now, you know, moron.

 

[MartyNYC]

Didn't the Zionists start migrating to Palestine around the turn of the century?

Absolutely excellent propagandists. How else could they convince half the world that the Middle East folks living in the Palestine Region should give up their land as compensation because of what Germany did throughout Europe. That's some wickedly powerful propaganda.

Which folks were living in ”Palestine” when it was first named “Palestine” by the Romans about 2,000 years ago? Read, learn, you moron

 

[MartyNYC]

The League had no power to give land to anyone. Neither did the UN btw. In 1920 the Haganah was formed for protection after the riots. Were they unarmed?

League of Nations lawfully transferred ownership of the land to the Jews from the Ottoman Empire and authorized the “reconstitution” of the Jewish National Home. Jews purchased land from Turks and Arabs. Now, you know…

 

[MartyNYC]

Are you saying the Zionist were not excellent propagandists for their cause?

Was King Abdullah of Jordan a Zionist propagandist when in his memoir he denounced Arabs for selling their land to Jews?

King Abdullah of Jordan: “It is made quite clear to all that the Arabs are as prodigal in selling their land (to Jews) as they are in useless wailing and weeping.” (“My Memoirs Completed,” 1978, pg. 98)
My Memoirs Completed

 

[BlindBoo]

The UN approved a partition plan, which the Arabs rejected. They were paid for their land, and Jews moved in. Then, in 1948, five Arab countries invaded Israel, but lost.

Arabs have massive amounts of land in the Middle East, and Israel is a little sliver. The only reason Muslims wage war on Israelis is because their religion teaches them to hate Jews.

The real story is the General Assembly passed a non binding resolution that was supposed to be taken up by the SC. They never got the chance because that vote marked the beginning of the hostilities, the beginning of the diaspora, and the beginning of the fight for an independent Israel. The fighting and ethnic cleansing was well underway when the Brits called it quits, Israel declared its independence and the Arabs formally declared war. In the end Israel won their nation by force of arms. They, like most all nations will survive as a nation as long as they can keep it, by the same force of arms.

 

[BlindBoo]

Was King Abdullah of Jordan a Zionist propagandist when in his memoir he denounced Arabs for selling their land to Jews?

King Abdullah of Jordan: “It is made quite clear to all that the Arabs are as prodigal in selling their land (to Jews) as they are in useless wailing and weeping.” (“My Memoirs Completed,” 1978, pg. 98)
My Memoirs Completed

Allow me to quote lisa "They were paid for their land, and Jews moved in."

Which is it? Did they have a hard time buying land before the war, or did they just pay for it and move on in?

Doesn't matter now does it, by hook or crook, they're there and they're expanding.